False (but not absurd!) axioms, e.g. Einstein's 1905 light postulate, are extremely dangerous and can convert science into ideology:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a909857880

Still some criticism involving REDUCTIO AD ABSURDUM remains possible:

http://www.labnews.co.uk/laboratory_article.php/4514/2/attack-on-great-pillar-of-physics

However in the era of Postscientism absurdity knows no limits and can be inherent in the axioms themselves:

L. McGlashan, Chemical thermodynamics, Academic Press, London (1979), pp. 72-73:
"For an infinitesimal change in the state of a phase alpha we write
dU = T dS - p dV + SUM mu_B dn_B (1)
We regard equation (1) as an axiom and call it the fundamental equation for a change of the state of a phase alpha. It is one half of the second law of thermodynamics. We do not ask where it comes from. Indeed we do not admit the existence of any more fundamental relations from which it might have been derived. Nor shall we here enquire into the history of its formulation, though that is a subject of great interest to the historian of science. It is a starting point; it must be learnt by heart."

In the case of ABSURD axioms no criticism is possible and postscientists are free to deduce anything. So Ilya Prigogine combined the above "fundamental" (Gibbs') equation with the INCOMMENSURABLE equation dU=dQ-pdV and mathematically vindicated his idiotic idea that the entropy, like a substance, is either produced inside the system or imported or both. The postscientific community immediately gave Prigogine the Nobel prize.

Pentcho Valev
pvalev@yahoo.com

Let's export entropy. Anonymous needs some. What say Anono, old boy? Take it and unburden the Universe! You could put it in your box.

"It is a starting point; it must be learnt by heart." (PV)

And as he did it today he is angry and unable to beyond his failure.

The fact is that macroscopic systems studied by thermodynamics are not fully defined to the microscopic level.
Another fact is that, despite of the previous fact, these thermodynamic systems can all be described in the same way.

The second principle can be derived from these two facts, and even these facts can be derived from statistical physics.

So, for the second law, as for the other posts by PV, the topic is always the same:
PV had difficulties to learn elementary physics and he blames the world for it.
It is too late for him, but the new generations just don't care.

Re: Anonym, POSTSCIENTISM: FALSE AXIOMS AND ABSURD AXIOMS August 17 2009, 8:22 AM

Pentco Valev: "It is a starting point; it must be learnt by heart."

Anonym: "And as he did it today he is angry and unable to beyond his failure."

You have no clue as to what you are talking about Anonym!...no clue at all.

Sorry to say, the PV ase is obvious.
Strong words, big mistakes, huge misunderstandings, a bit of latin for the show.

Re: Anonym, POSTSCIENTISM: FALSE AXIOMS AND ABSURD AXIOMS August 17 2009, 9:25 AM

Anonym: "Sorry to say, the PV ase is obvious.
Strong words, big mistakes, huge misunderstandings, a bit of latin for the show."

"Latin"??? Like I said Anonym, you have no clue what you are talking about!

I learned latin during 7 years, four hours per week.

Re: Anonym, POSTSCIENTISM: FALSE AXIOMS AND ABSURD AXIOMS August 18 2009, 4:39 PM

Anonym: "I learned latin during 7 years, four hours per week."

Oh...really! You took Latin for7 years and you don't know that the "L" in Latin should be capitalized. Ignorance is not knowing the difference between Latin and French and assuming that you do. Lying, is claiming to have studied Latin for 7 years and still not knowing the difference between Latin and French.

You have no clue what you are talking about Anonym, no clue at all! I already knew you were a liar Anonym.

Bob, be careful. We know Anonymous has a very thin skin. We don't want to hurt his tender feelings. He may really go out of control, and we would loose him. Every decent forum needs someone like him for a bad example. He makes the rest of us look pretty good, don't you think?

I sell a lot of equipment to the local sewer farm. They have a process engineer out there, too, probably more capable than Anonymous. They call him the Turd Herder.

Re: Jose, POSTSCIENTISM: FALSE AXIOMS AND ABSURD AXIOMS August 18 2009, 11:48 PM

Jose:
"Bob, be careful. We know Anonymous has a very thin skin. We don't want to hurt his tender feelings. He may really go out of control, and we would loose him. Every decent forum needs someone like him for a bad example. He makes the rest of us look pretty good, don't you think?"

Anonym spent 7 years learning Latin and doesn't even know how to spell the word properly and you think he may be smart enough to be insulted!! I guess it could happen but.....

"Oh...really! You took Latin for7 years and you don't know that the "L" in Latin should be capitalized. "

The capitalisation habits in english were not part of the latin curriculum in my country.
In addition, english is my third languag, didn't you notice that?

As usual, bobs, you are reducing everything to the dictionary and the spelling.

Re: Anonym, POSTSCIENTISM: FALSE AXIOMS AND ABSURD AXIOMS August 17 2009, 9:25 AM

Anonym: "Sorry to say, the PV ase is obvious. Strong words, big mistakes, huge misunderstandings, a bit of latin for the show."

If you knew anything about Latin you would know the posts Pentcho quotes are in FRENCH!!!

Anonym: "As usual, bobs, you are reducing everything to the dictionary and the spelling."

Proper diction is the basis for any and all fields of study, even Latin. You spent (allegedly) 7 years studying a dead language and yet you trivialize the most common language, English.

You claim you want serious dialog but you don't take proper dialog seriously.

I don't expect a serious dialog with you, boss.
I tried already.
I just got in return your systematic recourse to your language advantage combined with your stuborness to repeat yourself.
I explained that already.
All we can do here is to fool each other in our own way.

A better alternative would be to ignore each other.
I will do my best, although you are getting too often on my nerves.

Like I said, Bob, he's too thin skinned. He is, however, an expert at ignoring. He ignores every shred of logic presented here. You might say he is ignorant. He has just admitted that that will be his goal from now on!

Re: Anonym, POSTSCIENTISM: FALSE AXIOMS AND ABSURD AXIOMS August 19 2009, 8:24 AM

Jose think you are "thin skined", but I know better, you have been called stupid by the alpha males in your life since you were a kid!

Anonym: "I don't expect a serious dialog with you, boss. I tried already."

Show me one (as in 1) time you tried to be serious with me Anonym.

Anonym: "I just got in return your systematic recourse to your language advantage..."

Actually, my advantage is the fact that I am only "somewhat of a idiot", my language skills are just a + to that advantage. I studied a useful language and you studied what...Latin! Yet, you don't know the difference between Latin and French, either you wasted 7 years of study or the alpha males were right!

Anonym: "combined with your stuborness to repeat yourself."

It's called "consistency".

Anonym: "I explained that already."

You have not "explained" it, you have only repeated it!

Anonym: "All we can do here is to fool each other in our own way."

Speak for yourself Anonym, I am not here to "fool" anybody and those who say I am are lying!

Anonym: A better alternative would be to ignore each other."

If that is your choice, go for it!

Anonym: "I will do my best, although you are getting too often on my nerves."

I have no doubt that I do get on your nerves, my being right has a tendency to do that to people! Hell...my being right get on my nerves also.