# Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 13 2017 at 10:18 AM
Pentcho Valev

Nobody in the history of science has been able to lie as blatantly as Einstein:

Albert Einstein: "Now let us suppose that our railway carriage is again travelling along the railway lines with the velocity v, and that its direction is the same as that of the ray of light, but its velocity of course much less. Let us inquire about the velocity of propagation of the ray of light relative to the carriage. It is obvious that we can here apply the consideration of the previous section, since the ray of light plays the part of the man walking along relatively to the carriage. The velocity W of the man relative to the embankment is here replaced by the velocity of light relative to the embankment. w is the required velocity of light with respect to the carriage, and we have w = c - v. The velocity of propagation of a ray of light relative to the carriage thus comes out smaller than c. But this result comes into conflict with the principle of relativity set forth in Section V." http://www.bartleby.com/173/7.html

Does w = c - v come into conflict with the principle of relativity? It doesn't of course and this is more than obvious.

Feynman teaches exactly the same lie but in a less blatant manner - he only suggests, without being as explicit as Einstein, that c-u comes into conflict with the principle of relativity:

Richard Feynman: "Suppose we are riding in a car that is going at a speed u, and light from the rear is going past the car with speed c. Differentiating the first equation in (15.2) gives dx'/dt=dx/dt-u, which means that according to the Galilean transformation the apparent speed of the passing light, as we measure it in the car, should not be c but should be c-u. For instance, if the car is going 100,000 mi/sec, and the light is going 186,000 mi/sec, then apparently the light going past the car should go 86,000 mi/sec. In any case, by measuring the speed of the light going past the car (if the Galilean transformation is correct for light), one could determine the speed of the car. A number of experiments based on this general idea were performed to determine the velocity of the earth, but they all failed - they gave no velocity at all."
http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/I_15.html

Pentcho Valev

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Anonymous

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 13 2017, 12:53 PM
 Yeah, how fortunate that the village idiot Pentcho is here to enlighten us.
Pentcho Valev

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 13 2017, 5:09 PM
 Feynman is lying again: Richard Feynman: "Now if all moving clocks run slower, if no way of measuring time gives anything but a slower rate, we shall just have to say, in a certain sense, that time itself appears to be slower in a space ship. All the phenomena there - the man's pulse rate, his thought processes, the time he takes to light a cigar, how long it takes to grow up and get old - all these things must be slowed down in the same proportion, because he cannot tell he is moving." http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/I_15.html Is it true that "no way of measuring time gives anything but a slower rate"? Of course not - according to special relativity, measurements performed by the traveler himself give a FASTER rate: David Morin, Introduction to Classical Mechanics With Problems and Solutions, Chapter 11, p. 14: "Twin A stays on the earth, while twin B flies quickly to a distant star and back. [...] For the entire outward and return parts of the trip, B does observe A's clock running slow..." http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~djmorin/chap11.pdf "The situation is that a man sets off in a rocket travelling at high speed away from Earth, whilst his twin brother stays on Earth. [...] ...the twin in the spaceship considers himself to be the stationary twin, and therefore as he looks back towards Earth he sees his brother ageing more slowly than himself." http://topquark.hubpages.com/hub/Twin-Paradox Who taught Richard Feynman to lie? His teacher Albert Einstein of course. This particular lie ("moving clocks run slower") was devised in 1905: Albert Einstein, On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies, 1905: "From this there ensues the following peculiar consequence. If at the points A and B of K there are stationary clocks which, viewed in the stationary system, are synchronous; and if the clock at A is moved with the velocity v along the line AB to B, then on its arrival at B the two clocks no longer synchronize, but the clock moved from A to B lags behind the other which has remained at B by tv^2/2c^2 (up to magnitudes of fourth and higher order), t being the time occupied in the journey from A to B." http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/ Pentcho Valev
Anonymous

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 13 2017, 5:45 PM
Pentcho Valev

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 14 2017, 5:57 AM
Pentcho Valev

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 16 2017, 4:01 AM
Anonymous

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 16 2017, 4:51 AM
 Thanks Pentcho Valev, yes Feynman is in a bit of a pickle here. The straight line explanation of time dillation is easy to visualise by geometry, we have all seen it thousands of times. The problem is that this argument is symmetric, so it doesn't work. It may be that acceleration changes something, it adds energy to the traveller. Energy difference is a crucial element of the later general theory GTR, in fact you can look at it as time dilation come from the energy difference in a gravity field. But it can also be just kinetic energy difference, we don't care where this difference comes from. The curious thing is that kinetic energy difference can be used in the same way, the same amount, to match the time dillation for the twin experient. So maybe there is something in it? we need better experiemnts.
roger

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 16 2017, 7:58 AM
 >>The straight line explanation of time dillation is easy to visualise by geometry, we have all seen it thousands of times. The problem is that this argument is symmetric, so it doesn't work. a more fundamental problem is that those who I have talked to and claim belief in special relativity; some say its symmetric and others say its asymmetric i.e. difference in opinion about relativity, and when we check back with Einstein to try to get clarity, we find none.
Johannes Harder Andersen

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 16 2017, 11:25 AM
 It was actually me who wrote the above piece, but the sender was inadvertently defauted to Anonymous: Thanks Pentcho Valev, yes Feynman is in a bit of a pickle here. The straight line explanation of time dillation is easy to visualise by geometry, we have all seen it thousands of times. The problem is that this argument is symmetric, so it doesn't work. It may be that acceleration changes something, it adds energy to the traveller. Energy difference is a crucial element of the later general theory GTR, in fact you can look at it as time dilation come from the energy difference in a gravity field. But it can also be just kinetic energy difference, we don't care where this difference comes from. The curious thing is that kinetic energy difference can be used in the same way, the same amount, to match the time dillation for the twin experient. So maybe there is something in it? we need better experiemnts. @Rog Einstein hit upon something with STR, but STR is inherently inconsistent when asking questions such as the twin paradox. The GTR makes an abstraction from velocity to energy differences, whatever the source, that makes STR somewhat woolly. If you apply GTR to the STR examples, then I come to the conclusion that there actually is an absolute frame of reference, i.e. relativity is not absolute, but a good approximation, but an approximation which is insufficient to solve the twin paradox by STR. But I think that probably Einstein brushed that little problem under the carpet in the glare of publicity. This has caused endless misunderstandings, even among the high priests.
roger

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 16 2017, 2:12 PM
 >>If you apply GTR to the STR examples, then I come to the conclusion that there actually is an absolute frame of reference, yes, but most relativists deny that an absolute frame exists; so they seem to use an absolute frame at the same time as denying it exists (?) >>>i.e. relativity is not absolute, but a good approximation, the way they talk about things is that a theory has a range of applicability, and outside that range it doesn't work and therefore a "good approximation" in its range of applicability etc...; but when they talk of relativity and its range of applicability they never make it fully clear what that "is" >>but an approximation which is insufficient to solve the twin paradox by STR. the relativists don't seem to admit that, and always seem when they talk about the twin paradox being solved only mention STR (and not GTR) thus giving the impression it is solved in the context of STR alone >>But I think that probably Einstein brushed that little problem under the carpet in the glare of publicity. This has caused endless misunderstandings, even among the high priests. it was noticed by those you call the "high priests" that what Einstein said needed clarification, but he died before he could attend a meeting where he had been invited to explain himself; I pointed this out in one of my talks. So, apparently they decided to leave it as unclear.
Anonymous

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 16 2017, 4:20 PM
 I still find all things 'relativity' quite fascinating, hence my speculations. The SRT doesn't need any absolute frame, the speed of the systems are given, no mention of how they happened. So SRT is clean apart from the twin paradox where it fails. But Einstein made an interesting start, nevertheless. I'm going to investigate this more; all those speeds around us come from somewhere, ultimately pumped up with energy relative to the absolute frame. If speed is measured compared to another frame, then some of the kinetic energy is spurious. Like my example of looking in the rear view mirror of your car; the road receive speed but doesn't receive much energy. (although the road does receive momentum. If there was a motor way around equator, and all cars drive in the same direction, then...). Einstein is famous for emphasising the role of energy in most things, hence e=mc^2 and so on. But there are more things to look at, more pieces to fall into place.
Johannes Harder Andersen

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 16 2017, 4:22 PM
 I still find all things 'relativity' quite fascinating, hence my speculations. The SRT doesn't need any absolute frame, the speed of the systems are given, no mention of how they happened. So SRT is clean apart from the twin paradox where it fails. But Einstein made an interesting start, nevertheless. I'm going to investigate this more; all those speeds around us come from somewhere, ultimately pumped up with energy relative to the absolute frame. If speed is measured compared to another frame, then some of the kinetic energy is spurious. Like my example of looking in the rear view mirror of your car; the road receive speed but doesn't receive much energy. (although the road does receive momentum. If there was a motor way around equator, and all cars drive in the same direction, then...). Einstein is famous for emphasising the role of energy in most things, hence e=mc^2 and so on. But there are more things to look at, more pieces to fall into place.
roger

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 16 2017, 5:52 PM
 >>>The SRT doesn't need any absolute frame, the speed of the systems are given, no mention of how they happened. So SRT is clean apart from the twin paradox where it fails. the claim that SRT fails for twin paradox would probably be denied by relativists. you seem to be under the impression that there is an absolute frame (?) and that SRT is just not using one, but that it gets brought back anon with GRT (?) relativists are at best unclear whether they agree with any of that; and at worse would deny it.
Johannes Harder Andersen

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 16 2017, 10:26 PM
 hehe, whether relativists agree or not is not my problem. Unless they spot a mathematical error. However, I try to accommodate the constant speed of light, as I think that's quite certain. Slower speed in a medium doesn't count here since that's caused by stop/start photon interruptions. And I haven't seen any evidence of faster speed, although it may be theoretically not impossible. Relativists now finally agree that SRT time dilation is a symmetrical experience, as long as you dont stop, start or turn. I.e. that you are within SRT conditions. Look under "Reciprocity" athttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation . But that's not enough conditions for the twin paradox. I'm even not sure that closed loop time dilation exists at all, but will keep an open mind. See e.g. my paper here on unwinding the relativistic time. There have been reports of time dilations between two clocks, one at low elevation and another clock at a high mountain top. Atomic clocks of course. Sure there may be such stationary time dilation, but have they put the clocks back together side by side (closed loop)? And have they swapped the clocks around for a repeated experiment? I would really like to hear about such genuine unbiased experiments. Notice that this is referred to as "gravity" time dilation. Notice also that Einstein's aim is to explain away gravity into a more general energy form. So we are back to talking about energy differences of any kind, whether gravity or kinetic; according to Einstein it's all the same.
roger

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 17 2017, 6:42 AM
 Johannes Harder Andersen, unfortunately wiki is not 100 per cent reliable and misses out many things; in this case of time dilation symmetry it gives only a single biased viewpoint, and is not contrasting that with some that are saying otherwise.
roger

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 17 2017, 6:45 AM
 i.e. when you say "Relativists now finally agree that SRT time dilation is a symmetrical experience" that is just what the wiki article is leading you to believe from the distortion it makes of not presenting all points-of-view and instead presenting just one point-of-view
Johannes Harder Andersen

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 17 2017, 12:24 PM
 I can't see it in any other way. Of course SRT time dilation in symmetric with perfect relativity such as SRT. Whether SRT solves the twin paradox is another matter. Many use the sleight of hand when using the time dilation, forgetting to discuss how the twins got back together. Or they refer to mystic mathematics which they hope no one will understand. Feynman was actually a brilliant teacher, most on the time. His lecture notes was how I studied back them many years ago. He always found the quickest way to get to the point, cutting out the nonsense and saving us from unnecessary maths.
roger

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 17 2017, 1:31 PM
 Feynman created his own mythology about what he thought relativity âisâ, he says of relativistic mass: âFor those who want to learn just enough about it so they can solve problems, that is all there is to the theory of relativityâit just changes Newtonâs laws by introducing a correction factor to the mass.â http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/I_15.html while there are relativists who say there is no relativistic mass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTJauaefTZM It is just utter confusion by relativists contradicting themselves about what relativity âisâ; they are just making stuff up which Einstein probably never said about his theory.
Anonym

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 17 2017, 2:42 PM
 >>Relativists now finally agree the monkeys agreed. https://sinsip.com/Lm.png
Anonym

# Re: Einstein and Feynman Teach the Same Lie

September 17 2017, 2:46 PM
 >>It is just utter confusion by relativists contradicting themselves about what relativity âisâ which means - it's anything but science.

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