<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Forum  

Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 11 2018 at 10:34 AM
Pentcho Valev 

 
In 1905 Einstein derived the Lorentz equations from the constancy of the speed of light, but where did Einstein take the constancy from? He "borrowed" it from the Lorentz equations - it is as simple as that:

Albert Einstein: "...I introduced the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light, which I borrowed from H. A. Lorentz's theory of the stationary luminiferous ether..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_ether_theory

Pentcho Valev

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
roger

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 11 2018, 12:47 PM 

good point, but then he discarded the ether to make it all look like nonsense.


 
 
Anonym

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 11 2018, 1:08 PM 

then he illegally transforms the lorentz transformations

 
 
roger

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 11 2018, 2:37 PM 

that's what messes them up

for inertial motion, given 2 people moving at non-zero constant velocity relative to each other

by Einstein under relativity: each observer says the other person's clock is slower

by Lorentz: only one clock is slower

Einstein throws away the aether/absolute/preferred frame and so we have nonsense of each person claiming time is slower for the other person

unfortunately, people who claim to believe Einstein's relativity are so messed up, that some of them actually believe Lorentz theory in mistaken belief they believe Einstein's theory


 
 
Anonym

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 11 2018, 2:50 PM 

also einstein substitutes expansion with contraction.

 
 
Pentcho Valev

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 11 2018, 3:12 PM 

This text, only slightly euphemistic, contains the whole truth about Einstein's relativity:

Banesh Hoffmann, Relativity and Its Roots, p.92: "Moreover, if light consists of particles, as Einstein had suggested in his paper submitted just thirteen weeks before this one, the second principle seems absurd: A stone thrown from a speeding train can do far more damage than one thrown from a train at rest; the speed of the particle is not independent of the motion of the object emitting it. And if we take light to consist of particles and assume that these particles obey Newton's laws, they will conform to Newtonian relativity and thus automatically account for the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations. Yet, as we have seen, Einstein resisted the temptation to account for the null result in terms of particles of light and simple, familiar Newtonian ideas, and introduced as his second postulate something that was more or less obvious when thought of in terms of waves in an ether. If it was so obvious, though, why did he need to state it as a principle? Because, having taken from the idea of light waves in the ether the one aspect that he needed, he declared early in his paper, to quote his own words, that "the introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be superfluous." https://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its-Roots-Banesh-Hoffmann/dp/0486406768

The most important points:

1. The Michelson-Morley experiment was directly compatible with the variable speed of light posited by Newton's emission theory of light.

2. The Michelson-Morley experiment was incompatible with the constant (independent of the motion of the emitter) speed of light "without recourse to contracting lengths, local time, or Lorentz transformations".

Pentcho Valev

 
 
jz

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 12 2018, 12:16 PM 

>>> Einstein throws away the aether/absolute/preferred frame and so we have nonsense of each person
claiming time is slower for the other person

Mathematically it is NOT nonsense.
Physically, well there are enough experiments showing it is NOT.
For instance:
4. Tests of Time Dilation and Transverse Doppler Effect
The Doppler effect is the observed variation in frequency of a source when it is observed by a
detector that is moving relative to the source. This effect is most pronounced when the source is
moving directly toward or away from the detector, and in pre-relativity physics its value was zero
for transverse motion (motion perpendicular to the source-detector line). In SR there is a non-zero
Doppler effect for transverse motion, due to the relative time dilation of the source as seen by the
detector. Measurements of Doppler shifts for sources moving with velocities approaching c can test
the validity of SR's prediction for such observations, which differs significantly from classical
predictions; the experiments support SR and are in complete disagreement with non-relativistic
predictions.
from:http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html

 
 
roger

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 12 2018, 1:30 PM 

>>> Einstein throws away the aether/absolute/preferred frame and so we have nonsense of each person claiming time is slower for the other person
>Mathematically it is NOT nonsense.

It is nonsense, because have :

some people going by Einstein under relativity: each observer says the other person's clock is slower

and some people going by Lorentz: only one clock is slower

and both people claiming experiments support what they say.

 
 
roger

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 12 2018, 2:03 PM 



such vague claims as

>>> the relative time dilation of the source as seen by the
detector.

leads some people to say both clocks are slower, while other people say only one clock slower

 
 
Anonym

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 12 2018, 2:58 PM 

you talking to idiot.

 
 
Rebis

c ideology

January 12 2018, 3:21 PM 

First thing first, there is no any DIRECT experiment proving Doppler effect for light! Ever since G. Galilei generations of physicists somehow believe in c - speed of light. Namely, since Roemer and alike some time delay in that phenomenon of light has been interpreted as "motion". That is but a pure dogma and c itself can really be seen as a root of all evil.
Finally, AE himself, along with his brotherhood, has become the Joker and afterwards a false icon of modern science. That's all.
Btw, speed of signal in any medium cannot, by all means, be limiting factor for mechanics of that same medium. So they are selling an ideology not science.

 
 
Anonym

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 12 2018, 4:43 PM 

what about star aberration, is it fake too?

 
 
Amigo

Re: Einstein Derived the Lorentz Equations from ... the Lorentz Equations

January 12 2018, 5:41 PM 


>>>Doppler effect for transverse motion, due to the relative time dilation of the source as seen by the detector.


Absence of the relativistic transverse Doppler shift at microwave frequencies=====>>>

"Abstract: An experiment is described showing that a 33-GHz microwave signal received by rotating antennas is not exhibiting the frequency shift ("transverse Doppler effect") predicted by the relativistic Doppler formula. The sensitivity of the apparatus used has been tested to be sufficient for detecting frequency shifts as small as 10/sup -3/ Hz which corresponds to the value of (v/c)/sup 2/ = 5.10/sup -14/ used in the transverse Doppler shift experiment reported here. From the observed absence of the transverse Doppler shift it is concluded that either the time dilation predicted by the standard theory of special relativity does not exist in reality or, if it does, is a phenomenon which does not depend on relative velocities but may be a function of absolute velocities in the fundamental frame of the isotropic microwave background radiation."

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/1240186/



 
 
 
  Respond to this message   
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Forum  
 Copyright © 1999-2018 Network54. All rights reserved.   Terms of Use   Privacy Statement