MARTHA: Do scientists "believe" in gravity, atoms, or quantum physics? Is the atomic theory a religion?
DOUBLE SHALOM: No!!!!
MARTHA: Also, abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution. They are two seperate subjects.
DOUBLE SHALOM: Of course they are different. You are merely insinuating that I said what you claim. There is a difference between Darwinian Theory and Abiogenesis. Even then, modern proponents of naturalistic origin of life talk about natural selection at molecular level. In this regard then we shall see soon the merger of refined abiogenesis and Darwinism. You are fighting a ghost.
MARTHA: Of course scientific theories are not religion. But when a scientific theory addresses questions concerning life, the religious try to argue it too is a religion. But one must ask "Why would someone want to argue it is a religion?"
DOUBLE SHALOM:
MARTHA: The answer is obvious. We all agree creationism is a religion. So creationists try and argue science too is a religion. Its a feeble attempt, and confuses scientific methods and its approach.
DOUBLE SHALOM: creationism might be a religion but ID is not. ID does not rely on biblical account to arrive at design. It looks at irreducible complex systems and probabilities of self organization in nature to derive its conclusion. Potpher says, that evolution is not a science and doesn't even qualify to be classified as a scientific theory. He says, according to die hard evolutionist - Mark Isaak, “A theory is a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena.” His argument is that we all know that a phenomenon is observed behavior of matter or energy. But what class of phenomena is evolution aimed at explaining? Well you might say speciation. If indeed since the time of the ancient Greek up to date nowhere has speciation been observed in nature then it means that there is no observable phenomenon. If there is no observable phenomena, then it follows that there must be no theory. A scientific theory only is demanded and indeed arises to explain for that which is observed. What can you explain for that which does not exist? So you see that evolution is not a scientific theory. It's a religion of speculation and conjecture accounting for that which is not observed.
MARTHA: I think the fact that there are theists, atheists, and agnostics who understand and accept abiogenesis and evolution, shows that scientific theories are "neutral" with respect to religion.
DOUBLE SHALOM: I know Moslems who believe that Jesus will come again. Jesus is neutral. According to you Christians and Moslems are neutral with respect to religion. What’s your next point???
MARTHA: Abiogenesis is no different then gravity, atoms, germs causing disease (rather then disease being caused by the wrath of god), or any other scientific discovery.
DOUBLE SHALOM: Wauh!!! My princess, you’ve lost it here big time. We experience gravity; we can interact with atoms and germs. But for your abiogenesis, it does not exist.
MARTHA: Any discovery in science can conflict with religious belief. And this is the problem for creationists, who prefer to hold onto their religious beliefs, rather then adapt and modify their beliefs to accomodate scientific discoveries. So they try to argue creationism is science, or science is religion, etc.
DOUBLE SHALOM: My beliefs do not conflict with science and moreover it is incorrect to say that science says there is no God.
MARTHA: I like Miquel's approach. He apparently understands quite well science is no threat to his religious beliefs. Perhaps DS if you looked at science in the same way. I mean millions of people who believe in god also accept evolution. Even the Catholic Pope once said the evidence is in favor of evolution. And I heard that about 60% of all scientists also believe in god. A good example is Kenneth Miller of Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, USA. He is an evolutionary biologists, accepts abiogenesis, and also believes in god. He is quite outspoken, has written books, etc.
DOUBLE SHALOM: With science, we know but with religion we believe. Some thing I know but some I believe. I don’t see anything wrong with my stance.
MARTHA: I KNOW IM WASTING MY TIME WITH YOU DS. BUT NO ONE CAN BLAME ME FOR NOT TRYING.
DOUBLE SHALOM: No my princess. I like you very much. Keep trying, you might convert me to your religion of evolution.