The thing I can't figure out is why so many rude people live in this world. There are so many people on here that have nothing nice to say about River Phoenix, and everything mean to say about him. My question to you is, Why the hell waste your time coming on this forum if you don't like him, or you didn't like the choices he made in his life?

I see so many people on here trying to chastize others for liking who he was, and so on, so why be here if you didn't like him? All these messages of,"He was a bad person for his choices," or "You are stupid for caring about him," or "He chose to be selish, and shallow, and blah blah blah." Stop already! I'm sure noone agrees with all the choices River made, but people are allowed to like him, and his work.

This is a board about him, and usually, when I don't like a person, or I don't have anything nice to say about a person, I simply have the common courtesy to stay away from that board, out of respect for those who like the person, instead of leaving immature messages to get fans of that person started on a rant and rave session. You know the people on here happen to like him, so why come on here with your negative bullshit?

I'm sure everyone on here realizes River's shortcomings, and mistakes, and doesn't need reminded of them on a daily. I'm sure they've come to grips with the fact that he died and why. Noone needs to be converted into the "He Was A Selfish Man Club", because believe it or not, not everyone feels that way. Everyone has a right to feel the way they want to feel, and people coming on here, acting like their shit doesn't stink, like they've never had any problems, or made any mistakes in life, I think they're the ones with the most problems. Noone is perfect, we're all human beings who make mistakes, and hopefully have that chance to learn from those mistakes.

I think, in life, everyone dies for a cause. Even if they don't realize what that cause is at the time, or even if it was intentional or not. River died, and that really sucks, but I think with his death, he brought alot of drug awareness to alot of people who may have been eclipsed by the Hollywood glorification of drug abusers. That was also right around the time Calvin Klein was running those heroin chic ad campaigns, and Hollywood, and the fashion industry seemed to be glorifiying drug use.

Whe he died, he brought upon alot of questions, and alot of awareness on drugs and drug use. Questions that had never been asked before were asked after that, and I think the awareness saved alot of people from falling down that same path.

So you either love him, or you hate him, but whichever way, why not respect the man enough to watch with the weird ass comments left on here. What some people choose to write on here is the equivalent of someone coming into your home, and pissing on your carpet. Do you want your carpet pissed on? I doubt it, so don't piss on River's.

Woah, go princess! I agree with you! I wonder ..why dp people come on here if they dont like River?? Is it to remind us of the mistakes he made, or to plainly just bag him out! Whatever the answer... i dont care! You love a person based on the possitives and help them through the neggatives!

I agree with the both of you.
It's just to wind us up! And sometimes it works

How do you so easily and willingly overlook the incredibly massive negatives this guy had?

Here's one: OJ Simpson was a kind, caring person who loved his family, had a sensitive heart, supported many homeless organizations, was a great football player and a great golfer. I want to start an OJ Simpson fan club. Is anyone with me? Let's look beyond his dark past and see him for what he is, a human being

Here's another: Michael Jackson was never given the opportunity to have a childhood. He has a giant generous heart, loves his family, and has a beautiful voice. Let's look beyond his current troubles (and past accusations) and see him for what he is...a human being.

People, my praise and character of human judgement is more refined than to just throw it around blindly. River was a lot of things, but a person worthy of praise worship he was not.

this forum is not JUST about river. if anything we are discussing the issues of drug addiction, celebrity culture and the whys and wherefores of "that" photo.

i've said it before and i'll say it again, i respect him for his talent, but not for his addiction. believe it or not there are other choices in life, there are ways out of a drug problem. river was in a very fortunate position financially, he was supported by loved ones, help was readily available and all he had to do was ask. if he admitted himself for treatment people would have most likely respected him more for the bravery it would have taken to deal with the issues at hand. river did not take the opportunity while he had the chance; instead he put it off at his own peril and became another statistic. for that i pity him, he did not have it in him to do what was for the best.

There's a couple comments made by a few people who posted that I would like to reply to. First to Jiggy-whatever...Your analogies of River to OJ Simpson, and Michael Jackson don't really stick.

River was a young, impressionable kid, in Hollywood, who had a drug addiction, and ended up dying as a result.

OJ Simpson, from what I have read, was a very mean, arrogant man who stalked his wife, and had even commited abuse upon her in the past. I wouldn't really consider that a kind, gentle soul. He'd talked about killing his wife in the past, and did horrid things to her during their divorce. If he did charity, than good for him, but we all know some peoplein Hollywood choose charity as a sort of vanity project instead of doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

Michael Jackson is a seriously troubled guy who I believe has some serious issues. I won't go into it, we all know the deal there.

The difference between OJ, and Michael, as oppose to River is the fact that both OJ and Michael commited crimes that harmed another person, intentionally. River, on the other hand, made some bad mistakes in his life, and paid the ultimate price to himself. You can not take two lives of two criminals and try to pretend there is any type of link. It just sounds, and looks stupid on your part. How you can even try to compare the three is beyond me.

Also, someone else brought up that this forum was not just about River, and I'm unaware of that, because the forum says,"River Phoenix Death Discussion." Plus every topic is related to River. I think you would be wrong in saying that this is a anti-drug website, but I'm sure there are ones people can go to to read up, and discuss.

I'm not "in the dark" and I realize what River died of. Everyone knows what happened. There are so many wonderful topics people could discuss about his work, his life, and so on. There are many interesting topics people could get into, but it doesn't always have to be this negative bunch of bullshit. Noone needs to hear,"He was bad for being an addict," because I'm sure the majority of this forum is quite intelligent enough to know what he died of, and why it was wrong. His mistakes do not make him a bad person. They make him human, and if he had the chance to fix those mistakes, than maybe everything would've made him a stronger person.

It's just wild when I read someones ideas of what an addict is, and what type of personality they must have. You're very far off course, but I think everyone understands it. I saw a really cool site yesterday on River which said something to the affect of,"You know about Rivers death, here we talk about his life." Too bad people can't do that here.

princess, i did not say that this is an "anti-drug website". i am stating the fact that there is more to this website than just sitting around worshipping river. there are more issues than "what a nice guy he was" or "how talented he was". most of us came here to discuss the coffin photo, whether we support it or protest against it. but even we have moved on to debate other aspects of this "legend".

as icu pointed out in another thread, this site is connected to "MORBIDLY HOLLYWOOD", so there is you first clue that this site is not going to be all laa dee da praise praise praise.
"I saw a really cool site yesterday on River which said something to the affect of,"You know about Rivers death, here we talk about his life." Too bad people can't do that here."
if you like that site so much, go there and stay there, if not put up and shut up!

You are making my point for me. You see the negatives in the two examples I provided, but ignore the negatives in River. Michael jackson has never been convicted of a crime, yet you have convicted him!!!!! For all we know he is the victim of malicious lies and extortion plots. One day perhaps we'll figure out, but until then he's innocent. I beleive your judicial system is the same as mine "innocent until proven guilty".

With regards to OJ Simpson, funny how you emphasized his negatives and downplayed his positives. That's the point I'm trying to make! Thank You! You elude to his charity projects as just fronts for his own vanity. How do you know River's projects were not just fronts for tax breaks so that he could afford more heroin and crystal meth?

River's involvement with drugs killed someone. Are we all just fortunate that it was himself that died and not someone else? Let's see,,,I guess you are right, River is a better person than OJ Simpson because the dead body count scoreboard shows OJ Simpson 2: River Phoenix 1.

People.....Stop praising this guy just because he was a hunky young movie star. Don't forget, he was a crack monkey too!

My first comments go to Jiggy Jam....

First off, you never had an answer to my most important question to you...If you feel this guy was such a seedy, disgusting waste of life, what brings you to this board to discuss him so frequently? I mean, if I found someone so revolting, you wouldn't find me on a site discussing them, yet you seem to be a regular on here. That's really what I don't understand about you people who just have negative things to say about River, why be on here then? I guess you have to cause trouble somewhere though. Some people don't feel satisfied in life if that can't make someone else upset.

Secondly, I have not convicted Michael Jackson. The only thing I said was that I found him to be a very troubled person, and I said that I didn't feel like going into the rest of what I thought. You don't know what side of the fence I stand on with the Michael Jackson case. Actually, I believe him to be innocent of the crimes he's been accused of. I think he's a troubled guy, and I think people have chosen to take advantage of those flaws with him, so don't assume you know how I feel, and please don't put words into my mouth.

Thirdly, obviously the statements I've made about OJ Simpsons were in fact true, unless everyone was to assume the tons of police reports and witnesses were lying, so how else could I view him? A guy who stalks his wife, physically abuses his wife, threatens his wife, and then she ends up dead with her throat sliced in front of her home...a little suspicious, and his name was all over that murder. If the proscution hadn't been so stupid, he'd be in the chair by now. So let's see...a man who was able to violently kill his wife and another man...do I think he seemed like the charitable type? No, sorry I do not.

Now how you could ever take two criminal cases, of people, at least accused of harming other innocent people maliciously, whether it's true or not, and then take a guy who had a drug addiction, and try to say it's basically the same thing is beyond me, but it sounds ridiculous and you really don't make any sense. How do two crimes, and a overdose compare to eachother? Really don't make much sense at all.

To ANA: I understand that you said that this forum was not just to discuss River and his death, but if that is the case, why is it listed as this and why is this all I see being spoken about?

And telling me to go somewhere else if I don't like it? I'm actually here because I liked River and I have positive things to say about him. What's your excuse? Oh I forgot, spread the word...like everyone in their mother doesn't already know the consequences of drug abuse and what happened to River. I guess if you can't find a way to cause trouble and commotion on a forum, what else would ya do with your day, right? You people seriously need a new freakin hobby.

You say "If you feel this guy was such a seedy, disgusting waste of life, what brings you to this board to discuss him so frequently? I visit this board because it is very disturbing that we have thousands of teenaged little girls who are praising and idolizing this guy like he has no faults. They see that he was a good-looking actor who died young and was therefore some innocent guy whose life was snuffed out early. He killed himself! There are way better role models out there than River. River is not a good role model.

You say " I have not convicted Michael Jackson....and please don't put words into my mouth" Ummm...yes you have convicted him. Here is your quote that came from your own little fingers "the fact that both OJ and Michael commited crimes that harmed another person" That's my point. You convicted him before a trial. You are able to overlook River's problems but other people's problems are so important to you that you convict them even before they're found guilty.

You're right, I guess making a comparison between Michael Jackson and River Phoenix is off base. But even if Jackson comes out guilty on this, the body count scoreboard will still point to River as the victor.

I think what Ana was saying is that this forum is not for discussing how saintly River was and how much we all loved him and how we all cry ourselves to sleep over his death and over the photo. The forum is called the Death of River Phoenix and is attached to a place called "Morbidly Hollywood". So what she meant was don't come on here expecting to be ignored by those who find River a little less than idol worthy.

I never convicted Michael Jackson. I said they commited crimes, which what I meant to say was, they were both charged with crimes, neither actually was ever found guilty, and this isn't the first time these charges have been pressed against Michael. I, believe it or not, don't think Michael did it, but you also failed to put in the comment where I said whether they're guilty, or not, meaning I obviously hadn't made up my mind on both of them...but beyond this...Michael Jackson is absolutely irrelevant to River Phoenix. There is no comparison to them at all! My point in making that clear was by saying that both Michael and OJ have been charged with crimes in which they intentionally harmed other people. River, on the other hand, abused his own body with drugs, without intentionally trying to hurt anyone, and i'm sure he didn't purposely overdose so your comparison is still mind boggling to me.

Teenage girls crying over him? Where are these teenage girls you speak of? I have not seen this at all. I'm definetly not a teenage girl, I'm in my mid-20's, and I have never cried over a man I never knew. Why would teenage girls even be on here crying over River? They would've been too young to have really followed him before his death anyways. I'm in my 20's and I was only 14 when he died, and most teenage girls are swooning over the big thing that is going on right now with actors on tv and music, not a guy who died when they were too little to even know about it.

And if they were? So you're saying that you specifically come on here reguarly, even though you don't like River, to look at messages little girls write? OK! That's kinda weird dude! People are going to ike who they like, and I don't think your opinion is really going to change it.

It's one thing to discuss his death and quite another to constantly harp on the fact that he was so awful for dying from a drug overdose. People make mistakes. Everyone does, and you seem to be quite salty about all this, like you've been personally affected by his death. Maybe you need to write your own poem.

I know what kind of board this is, but out of respect for others who do like him, people can point out the negatives, which are already pretty widely known, and do it in a way that is respectful for all the people who happen to be involved. Instead of stating that he was a seedy and disgusting guy, you could try refraining from those fucked up, judgemental comments, and say something that points out your disapproval withhis drug abuse and make that awareness known without trashing him to the people who don't feel the way you do.

It's ust weird to think that if someone is so disgusted with another human being, they'd want to spend so much time on a message board dedicated to them and thier death. Whether or not your discussing him, his death, or these so called little girls poems, you'd think you'd get tired of it when you have such distaste for everything he was, but deep down I think you probably have your own little poem made for him, because I can't see any normal person feeling so upset and judgemental over another person unless they are upset or just angry.

I'll address your comments below:

The fact that River killed himself rather than someone else is more readily excused by a lot of people for some reason. Why is that? I don't undertsand that. It affects those around him the same way. The fact remains that River killed someone. Accidentally or on purpose the fact is the same. He was involved in a lifestyle that killed someone. Don't excuse him because it was himself.

There are NUMEROUS people on here that have confessed to crying over his death (still to this day!) Where have you been? People have written poems, posted them here and talked about how they have cried themselves to sleep over his death. And yes, you are right, there are girls who were not even alive when he died who are still so deeply disturbed by his death that they cry and write poems.

Never said I didn't like River. In fact I have a high level of respect for his work. But I will withold the elevation to greatness of his abilities because we never got to see enough of it. I like River, but I dislike people lifting him to idol status without thinking about, knowing or considering his dark side. I just want to give everyone a reality check before they start doling out their admiration.

I was negatively affected by his death, just like everyone else on here was. That's prolly why most come here. I do not harp on his death until I see someone who doesn't know about or who has chosen to ignore his darker self. I consider it my duty to herd the "little sheep of the Church of River Phoenix" into the proper pen and give them a thorough education before sending them out into the world of River worshippers. You have a good idea....maybe I WILL write a poem... or perhaps song, but it would be more suitable to be sung by Ozzy Osbourne than by Celine Dion.

Whether you choose to understand it or not, River did indeed have an extremely seedy and thoroughly disgusting side to him.

You will not be spared the discussion of the darker side of River's life on these boards. Remember that this board is attached to a site called "Morbidly Hollywood". There are numerous other boards out there for exchanging poems, praising his being and glamorizing his life, but not here. The discussions here will be about River Phoenix, a young talented Hollywood star with loads of potential whose life was tragically cut short by Cocain, Crystal Meth, Marijuana, heroin, alcohol and the other excesses of Hollywood.

Where have I been? Not on here till just a few weeks ago. I don't have time to read every message, or go through old archives on this board of messages about River. I look at the recent posts and the current ones.

I don't need lectured...that is my point. You may choose to herd the young followers away from "The Church Of River," but it's the fact that you try to assume people don't already have the common sense to know already.

The fact that you talk to me as if I'm trying to hide the fact that River made some unwise choices and paid the ultimate price is what really gets me. Believe me, I get it. I don't need to be preached to though. I watched someone OD in front of me before, and I saw the consequences and affects it took on everyone for years. I saw the visual and was left to replay if for the rest of my life, so please believe, you don't need to preach to me about what drugs can do to a person.

I've watched a person convulse, foam from the mouth, piss and shit themselves to death from an overdose, and I was left with that for the rest of my life, so there's nothing you can tell me that will change my education in the school of life and drug use. The fact that you assume that everyone on here who simply doesn't address it in every post has to be glorifying it, is far from the truth. Just because I don't choose to talk about River's "seedy" lifestyle in every post, doesn't mean I agree with it, or his choices. Just because I think there's more to him, and more to discussing it, doesn't mean I thinkit was okay. It just means we all know what happened, why it was wrong, and why to never end up like that, so listening to a broken record won't change anything.

Also showing another side to these young girls won't change a thing either. It's too bad, but I know it to be true. A guy, over a message board, who they feel is wrong anyways, isn't going to affect them. Life experience and a wake up call is all that will change a person mind, and hopefully maturity will do the trick too.

But you have to also assume that even if someone writes a poem, maybe they also understand River's bad side, and just choose to focus on the good in their art. I don't know. I don't write poems, but I'm assuming the people who do write poems do it as a tribute and not a statement saying drugs and River's actions were cool.

I just wanted to say that both of you need to shut up and learn that River Phoenix, OJ Simpson,and Michael Jackson all have faults and they all are not perfect. I was 7 years old when he died but when i start watching him when i was 12 and found that he died it was sad for me. There nothing wrong for be sad over a guy that died in 1993.

I dont think that River would want arugments over this. We all have differnt views on River Phoenix.
I'm not going to say anything else. But in the words of River, peace!

go princess go princess!! i agree totally, noone agrees with what he did, but at least we have the decency to understand that everyone makes mistakes. his may have been quite big but still.....

look heres what I can't figure out. Why the hell are all of yous stuck on River. I bet the only reason you looked him up and found out he died was because of his looks! and for those of you who say you love him, WAKE UP! he did have problems and he did drugs everyone needs to realize he isn't that "good boy" everyone thought he was. yall only like him cuz of looks and you can't say you like him for him cuz you don't know him. YOu know his characters he played, yea so does everyone else. I"m not hating on River but I think I've spent too much time giving exuses for river and I realized what I was doing from people like ana and jimmy!now so do you!

aaaaah, it would appear there is hope for you yet young grasshopper. welcome to maturity, we hope you enjoy your stay.

Are you not the same ashely who keeps posting those stupid posts .like'oh i want him, i love him, i cry every night'! Wow, ok!

yup I'm the same ashley, and thanks to ana and jimmy. I"ve realized stop making excuses for river, i need to face the fact that he was a heavy drug user and he brought it on himself! Thanks. Now lets talk about some real issues other then he is cute!

Amen Ashley, sorry for ebing hard on you, you just have to understand that some of youre posts were quite humerous!

your absoultly right, now that I look at them I was laughing when I over read it! What was I thinking?

1. Michael Jackson was found inoccent, and I happen to like michael, but not for what people accused him to do, for his music, and compassion.

2. OJ Simpson was never found guilty to murdering his wife (i think?) and yeah, thats really bad, but he was caring, and just like you said, a good football player (or whatever he was)

3. River Phoenix Killed himself, of a drug overdose. (isnt that a little different than child molestation and murder?) He was a good person involved in many chairities like michael and OJ. He cared for the enviorment too.

Comparing these three people are like apples and oranges. I mean, we all have bad qualities and good qualities. But River is dead. Can we just give him a break? Stop saying how shallow and how horrible he supposibly was. Thats not what you want people to be talking about after you die right? You would want people to remember you for the good things you did, not for the bad. I'm sure River would want to be remembered for the good things he did. Not the bad.

If I die in a pool of vomit on a Hollywood sidewalk I would expect myself to be fair game for anyone who wants to ridicule or insult me. Drug abusers forfeit the right to be considered a decent person the first time they take drugs. Plain and simple.

He was a shallow person because he turned his back to those he loves and decided that their love for him was not as gratifying as the next snort of cocaine.

wow, hold up, exactly where did river vomit, in the bathroom or out side, I'm confused , they said after vomiting and shacking he stopped then went to his girl and said he he couldn't breath and when he got outside he passed out and had seisers and so forth, is that true, and I wouldn't care what people said about me if I died because..... I'm dead it can't hurt me!

"1. Michael Jackson was found inoccent, and I happen to like michael, but not for what people accused him to do, for his music, and compassion."
- I think he's guilty, whether or not the verdict of his case contradicts me.

"2. OJ Simpson was never found guilty to murdering his wife (i think?) and yeah, thats really bad, but he was caring, and just like you said, a good football player (or whatever he was)"
- Infact, he WAS found guilty. I can say he was convicted because a civil trial for Nicole's[his wife] wrongful death found him liable

"3. River Phoenix Killed himself, of a drug overdose. (isnt that a little different than child molestation and murder?) He was a good person involved in many chairities like michael and OJ. He cared for the enviorment too."
- First off, child molestation murder and drug abusers are all people who need help in one way or another. I personally think people excuse River because he was a good actor and a very goodlooking man.

I'm not attacking you, just stating the facts. The only time you can ever make excuses for River is if a movie of his bombed [due to other things other than drug addiction], not for overdosing. That was something that happened. Except it. Obviously you dont like being told what's right & what's not. But just realize that River Phoenix died an unfortunate way that no one else should ever and that he shouldn't be excused from his actions.

Hey Jiggy, you said that drug abusers forfeit the right to be considered decent people the minute they use drugs. Hmmmmm. I do agree with alot of things you have posted in the past, and I'm not condoning drug use, by River Phoenix or anyone else. My question is..do you really think that there is a definite line between dirty, pathetic drug user and clean wholesome, non-user? Are there any gray areas? I think there may be. I know that when I hear the words " drug addict ", I think of someone....well, OD'ing on the sidewalk, but there are many others who do not fit into that category. There are the people who have been in automobile accidents, or have had major surgeries. They are then sent home with enough painkillers to last them a month or more. Before they know it, it's a few weeks later, they are hooked, and desperate to score some more. But are these people just as bad? They certainly didn't wake up one morning and think to themselves...."I think I'm going to start using drugs today." I think that's what makes drugs so terrifying.....the fact that almost anyone is in danger of becoming addicted. I know a few people who are addicted to vicodin, percoset..you name it, I don't think they are bad people, or without character. It's just that timing and circumstances made for an opportunistic drug addiction to take hold. Also, lets forget for a moment how someone becomes addicted, and talk about how they break their addiction. When it all comes down to it...addiction is addiction. I can't imagine how hard it must be to break such a habit. I just gave up a 10 year smoking habit 2 months ago, and I am crawling out of my skin. That was just nicotine...It would be terrifying to be addicted to something like heroin or ecstasy...or vicodin. Anyway, those are my thoughts. I am very interested in hearing ( or reading ) what you think.

Good luck with your cigarette habit, you should be commended for your efforts to quit, but, in doing so it in some way excuses you for taking up the habit in the first place.

Good points you make about the gray area of drug addiction, but if you look at the drugs in River's system it becomes clear that he was a conscientious drug abuser who took drugs for the purposes of getting high. Cocaine, Heroin, Marijuana, Crystal, etc are not drugs that one would find themselves addicted to after a visit to the hospital.

River, as a part of the Hollywood party machine, chose to take drugs to get high, He went over the edge with his addiction and died because of it. He was an addicted drug abuser who died from a massive overdose. Not a respectable person in my book. Sorry.

Listen Jiggy. . .could you do us all a favor and stop posting? I seriously do NOT understand why you come on here so often and make sooo many posts and challenge everyone and everything for a person you don't even like. You need to find some other people to talk to, and stop coming on here. Who in the right mind would go on a discussion board SOOOO OFTEN for someone they don't like at all? ENOUGH ALREADY!

FYI, what you might find out from some of my previous posts, is that I had a great deal of respect for River at one time. (I was around before he died) I think he showed a lot of potential as an actor and I was looking forward to following his career. But I think the two differences between my views and those of most other who visit here are:

1) I came to grips with the fact that River was not wholly what I thought him to be. Definitely not someone to be respected or idolized.
2) The title of this board is "Morbidly Hollywood - The Death of River Phoenix not the Love of River Phoenix. So, I'm just trying to keep all of the discussions on track with the intentions of the board.

If you don't like what someone says, please try to make pertinent and salient arguments or comments for your position. Just telling someone to go away usually doesn't work in life, nor will it work on this board.

My apologies, I thought you were just coming on here to piss everyone off. I see your point now, and although we don't agree, you have a right to your opinion

What you just told me Phoebe, wasnt right or wrong. All the things said on here are opinions right? Right. You have an opinion, I have an opinion. So dont tell me I dont like being told whats right and what's wrong. I know you werent "attacking" me and i'm not "attacking" you, but, I'm just telling you MY opinion on the subject, there is no right or wrong. It's all a bunch of opinions.

Lets just try to remember, we all have faults. If our lives, and our whole persona were judged entirely by one fault that we have, I think all of us would have trouble. We all have made bad decisions in our lives at one point or another. I do not think that we should idolize anyone Jiggy, but what others are saying is that he had much more to his life, not just the fact that he had this ONE problem with drugs. Having a drug problem does not define the whole person, no one problem defines us entirely. There are worse things a person can do, and NO, I am not advocationg drug use, it is a sickness and weakness of the mind. No one can control that.

As far as this place being called Morbiidly Hollywood, I agree the name has a negative connotation, but about Hollywood and its faults, not one person.

RP....I'm gonna pour out a little sympathy here that, while it is rare from me, should be taken as genuine.

You said: "As far as this place being called Morbidly Hollywood, I agree the name has a negative connotation, but about Hollywood and its faults, not one person." You hit the nail on the head. Morbidly Hollywood is an indictment of Hollywood more than it is of a person.

While most of us see Hollywood as this glamorous, fictional land of fantasy where dreams come true, the truth is that Hollywood is a bastion of seediness and immorality. It is kind of appropriate that the actual city of Hollywood has become seedy over the years, because Hollywood (the fictional land of fantasy where dreams come true) has also become seedy and corrupt.

River got caught up in the Hollywood seediness machine and couldn't get out. It is a ravenous beast that can destroy the manliest of men and the most glamorous of women. No on is immune. Fortunately, most are able to get out or manage to stay out of it in the first place. A person's character, values and spirit go a long way towards determining his/her fate against the machine. Those with flaws usually don't make it. It takes a very strong person to survive. Perhaps it was River's naivete or innocence or maybe even his age that made him think he could look the beast in the face. He lost.

It would be a bit easier to understand River's situation if every 15-year old who came to Hollywood were swallowed up, but the fact is that many go on to make successful careers. Some of the blame for his death falls on Hollywood, but River himself (and even his family) bore the majority of the blame. He had flaws in his makeup that allowed the beast to embed its claws in his body. What caused those flaws is a whole other discussion (some say it was his mother and father).

We've all read about his flaws in this board and others, as well as many books and articles. This all adds up to a person who is a little less admirable than we all first thought, not someone whom we should idolize or worship that so many try to do. We should use River's experience as an example of what can happen to those less equipped to deal with the pressures of Hollywood or even life in general.

If you have flaws in your makeup (lies, denial, naivate, narrow-mindedness, immaturity, stupidity, ignorance, bad influences, etc,) you can quite easily end up like River even without going to Hollywood.

I do indeed feel sympathy for River's family, but that sympathy is quickly masked by anyone who refuses to look beneath River's exterior and see that he was not someone whom we should worship and certainly not someone that we should cry ourselves to sleep over.

VERY WELL SAID JIGGY! I totally agree.

I just feel that one fault does not define ones entire character. Growing up in the same enviornment, and having the same nieve family, I know how easy it is to fall into traps. Lucky for me I did not. No parent wants their child to fall victim to any of the things that River did, and sometimes there is nothing that they can do when their loved one is in pain and is too weak to fight. That was the case with my Aunt and Uncle, and I also agree that drugs are not the way to go, and if you are weak and nieve, Hollywood will chew you up and spit you out whole. This does not make the perosn all bad, just weak, and it is unfortunate that some do not get help before it is too late.

Jiggy, I don't think I should be commended for my effort to quit smoking. It wasn't a noble act on my part, I quit because I didn't want to die. My point was, that as I sit here battling nicotine withdrawls, I think of how much worse it would be if it were something like heroin or cocaine.


My post and my questions to you weren't intended to defend River Phoenix, it was just a question about people in general.I think that all people, given the right (or wrong) circumstances, are susceptible to drug addiction. It could start out innocently enough, you know..someone being given some pain medication for something and then, they want more or want something stronger. Then they move on from prescription drugs to street drugs, and after that, well, heaven help them after that.

Sasha, I really didnt mean 'Obviously you dont like being told whats right or wrong' in a bitchy way. I swear. What I meant was that NO ONE like being told what's wrong or right and that I'm not attacking you. Sorry if you thought I meant it in a mean way.

Pheobe, I didnt mean to sound mean either. Sorry if it came out that way. You cant really tell the tone of someones voice on computers now can you? lol. But sorry, i'm really not trying to be mean about anything on here.

It's all good.

I can try to give you an answer to your concerns...
People who don't care about River Phoenix or people who don't even like him would certainly not come on in here to be rude, offensive and filthy... People who don't care about river wouldn't even find this page... because they wouldn't look for it... not many would accidentally find it... I think, people are rude because they don't like what others write about river. They don't like the fact that they are not the only ones who care about river. They are simply intolerant to other people's opinions... And what's more... I think River wouldn't like that dishonest kind of attitude... ... Well... That's what I think when I see bad comments about him on boards like this one... and that thought comforts me... it really does... and I can easily overlook bad comments...

See ya...

AGREE
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PEOPLE, LOOK AT THE POSITIVE, AND ALL THE POSITIVE. THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD LOOK AT. IF THERE WAS SOMEONE HARMED IN ANY WAY BY ONES ACTIONS THEN I COULD SEE FROWNING APON. BUT NEVER SHOULD YOU HOLD A GRUDGE. AND IT IS NOT ANYONES JOB TO JUDGE ANYONE!!!!! WHILE YOUR POINTING FINGERS SOMEONE ELSE IS WATCHING YOU. PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES. WE ARE THE LEAST PERFECT CREATURES ON THE EARTH. REMEBER THIS, IN SICIETY A MAN CAN BUILD 10,000 BRIDGES. AND THESE BRIDGES CAN STAND TALL FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, AND BE THE BEST EVER BUILT. BUT IF THAT SAME MAN SUCKS ONE COCK, HE IS NOT A BRIDGE BUILDER, HES A COCK SUCKER. WE ALL KNOW THAT ITS WRONG, BUT THATS HOW ITS IS IN TODAYS WORLD. "YOU CAN DO FIVE HUNDRED GOOD THING AND ONE BAD AND NOBODY'S GOING TO REMEBER THE GOOD, BUT THE'LL KNOW ALL ABOUT THE BAD."

DISSAGREE
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SELF INFLICTED CHOICES THAT ARE MADE THAT CAUSE PAIN,INJURYS, OR DEATH TO SOMEONE ARE THERE CHOICES! ITS IN ARE NATURE TO WANT WANT WANT, AND TO LIVE ON THE EDGE. I DO IT, WE ALL DO IT IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. WE ALL KNOW THE RISKS OF OUR ACTIONS. ANYTHING SELF INFLICTED HARM OF ANY KIND WE SHOULD HAVE NO MERCY FOR! (WHAT SO EVER!) RIVER NEW WHAT RISKS HE WAS TAKEING. HE KILLED HIMSELF, LIKE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE DO EVERY DAY. IT OK TO BE SAD FOR THE LOSS, AND ITS OK TO MISS, AND KNOW THAT IS A SHAME. BUT IN NO WAY SHOULD WE FEEL SORRY FOR HIM. THIS COULD COME ACROSS COLD HEARTED, AND SOME OF YOU THINK IM AN ASSHOLE, AND THATS OK. IVE LOST MANY FREINDS TO STUPID MISTAKES,
AND I MISS THEM, AND WISH THAT THEY WOULD HAVE MADE SMARTER CHOICES, BUT AGAIN, THEY WERE CHOICES, THERE CHOICES. LIFE IS ALL ABOUT CHOICES. RIGHT CHOICES, AND WRONG CHOICES. ITS YOUR "CHOICE" TO MAKE THE RIGHT ONES.
GOOD LUCK.
-RICHARD CAMPBELL

To the moderator:
Are you afraid to let Richard Campbell learn the truth of his duncery? Why did you delete my message? What is this nation coming to when a forum on the Internet is so casually censored?

The sad part is that I bet a majority of the folks on here would agree with your decision. Everyone's for free speech unless they disagree with it, or -GASP- it makes them uncomfortable.

G.M.,
ATex

have more respect

Everyone get's the same amount of respect from me to start off with, and after that -- you have earn it. I just don't dole out respect like candies. Ignorance is one thing, but when ignorance is defended and/or protected -- glorified even -- then that gets me fighting mad. I bet Richard never had anyone tell him he needs to learn how to string together a proper sentence, or how to spell. I was just pointing out what needed to be said.

GM

Gwaith - I must admit that I agree with you. Richard's post was hard to read and hurt my eyes, to boot. Please learn to spell or buy a dictionary.

Jiggy - Very well "spoken" comments again. My only disagreement with you is way up at the tippy top of this thread where you say that Micheal Jackson has a beautiful voice. You made me cring with that one!

Everyone who is condemning Jiggy - The main reason he is on this forum is because he is a moderator. I'm sure he doesn't come on here to as his major form of stress relief.

"where you say that Micheal Jackson has a beautiful voice. You made me cring with that one!"

OK, I guess I was speaking of his early years. More like when he was with the Jackson 5 and before Thriller. Gues I should have clarified. Sorry!

BUT IF THAT SAME MAN SUCKS ONE COCK, HE IS NOT A BRIDGE BUILDER, HES A COCK SUCKER. WE ALL KNOW THAT ITS WRONG - since when is gay being wrong thats your opinion not eveyone elses!!!