Hi folks. I certainly was a fan of River's work, but I never gave much thought to the circumstances surrounding his death. It just wasn't much interest to me. But a strange thing happened tonight. My band was playing a show at a club in Austin, TX and this strung-out dude with blonde dreds started chatting up me and my girlfriend and, apropos of nothing, launched into a story about River Phoenix. The dude said he lived in LA back then and knew all of the principals involved -- River, Depp, etc. His insane tirade continued, with tales about doing junk with different folks, including River. Then he told us that Depp killed River, that he had some junky poison River's works with bleach (or some other toxin, I can't remember.) He said it was due to some jealousy over an affair River had with Wynonna Rider.
Let me just say that all of this seemed quite insane. Here's this unknown hophead jabbering about big stars that he claimed to know, and then he says that one of our finest actors ordered a chemical "hit" on another fine actor, cutting him down in his prime -- all over some chick. I am not saying I bought any of this outright, but I have first-hand knowledge of similar behavior by non-famous addicts.
I just want to know if anyone has ever heard such a theory before. I browsed a few sites and message boards and the consensus seems to be that it was an eight ball -- not an needle -- that was River's last meal. Anyway, forgive me my curiosity, but it was brought on by this strange encounter with this raving madman. The writer in me can't let it go without some further investigation. I've lived long enough to learn respect for the words of people we label as "insane," as they often have a window into things the rest of us fail to notice, or else don't want to see. Again, thanks for any information, and I certainly mean no disrespet.
-Gwaith Mulligan,
Austin, TX
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I haven't heard such a thing and i think this mental case you were speaking to is in a little world of his own !!!
If Johnny Depp had ordered a hit on him, i think by now we would have seen either Johnny or the person who give River the drugs collapse ( no pun intended ) under the guilt and pressure.
The story is that it was John Frusciante who unknowingly gave River the drugs that killed him. John went off the rails soon after that and went through his own drug hell. Thats not to say that i believe the John Frusciante story, i think River killed himself cos no-one forced the drugs on him.
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To me, it sounds as though this gravel maggot that you and your friend had the unfortunate luck in meeting is a sad and pathetic junkie trying to scheme his way into your drawers by concocting and spreading ridiculous rumors about well-known indivuals that he's undoubtedly been jealous of for well over a decade.
It's sickening to me that there are so many people like this gentleman (did I say gentleman?) who love nothing more than stirring up the proverbial shit to make themselves seem somehow interesting and "in the know". Perhaps these folks would better spend there time actually creating a pallatible life for themselves, kicking the junk and finding a more constructive avenue to make friends and influence people than to blatantly lie about their relations with famous celebs to seem more important to others.
"Johnny Depp Kills River Phoenix with Poison Heroin"....if it reads like a rag mag headline and sounds like a rag mag headline, guess what....it probably is about as truthful as a rag mag headline. Johnny kills River of Winona Ryder? Come on. Wait, better yet, perhaps Depp suspected that 12 years down the line that Phoenix may get the notion to play Willy Wonka in "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" and decided to squash his nemesis right then and there. Sound ridiculous? Yeah, I thought so, too. Unfortunately, this stupid theory seems like a more likely reason to have someone offed than a pissing contest over Winona Ryder's affections.
Though I am a huge fan of River Phoenix and have been for 20 years, the sad truth is that heroin is itself a poison and doesn't need any bleach added to make it fatal. River seemed to have long been on a road of self destruction and unfortunate though it is, no one killed River but himself. I, for one, truly miss his talent and versatility as an actor and will long be saddened by the fact that we have lost the man who singlehandedly did more to enlighten the youth of the 80s and 90s about vegetarianism and rights for people and animals alike by living the example. I'm glad I got to share the planet with him for just a little while.
Please keep in mind that this is just my two cents and all of this "wisdom" I've gleaned is from having come in contact with a few too many folks who are powerless over drugs and alcohol and the bullshit craziness that is never far behind them. Take it with the recommended grain of salt and believe what you choose to believe. I do.
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For the record, I'm a 34-year-old man, not a 18-year-old sorrority girl who was being chatted up for my goodies. The nutbar telling me this story didn't seem to have any clue or care just who he was talking to -- he just talked. He had that look in his eye that said he hadn't been down to Earth in quite a long time. I know that look. One thing's for sure, the guy certainly appeared to BELIEVE himself in what he was saying. That was enough to make me curious. The reason I wrote is because I wanted to know if this admittedly salacious and, yes -- even juivenile tabloid tale had ever made the rounds. Save the lectures for someone else, kids. And do try to stay off the horse.
G.M.
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I'm with you, Nicola. I'm also a woman in my 30's who was merely stating my opinion about the theory presented to the group. I suppose this would have been a better answer:
No. I've never heard that theory expressed on this board or any other that I've been on.
Sorry about that, Gwaith. Thought perhaps you were looking for a bit more than a yes/no answer on that one.
Heather
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I was just broken hearted when I found out what had happened to River Phoenix. To have such obvious talent, and turn around to lose it into a cold eternity is tragic.
I suppose there are millions of other young people who give up their lives for the false promise of just one more high. That is only a counterfeit for what God wants for each of us.
I get angry when I think of drugs like meth or ecstasy just wiping out the minds and lives of people, and especially young people.
If only....If only they could be touched by the power of love from the Holy Spirit their lives could turn out great. The Holy Spirit gives such a strong wonderful emotion that if touched just once many people and especially young people would be rescued.
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hi i have also lived a lifewhere i have seen people getting smacked up al for the fun of it but i have also sen people get very jealous when the are on this shit and it could be very possible that J.D did order a hit on him just because it does make you insanely jealous this may not have been a mad man he may know some very vital info into why river died although people are quck to asume he was a junkie he may very well ahve been in the wrong persons club at the very wrong time.... what do you think???????
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Your post is intriguing - and from one 30-something year old to another, your post of "strung out dude" does have some ring of truth to the story, sez me .
Firstly - let me say .... AUSTIN! That's a wild club scene if I've ever seen one. Spent some time at the "Bat Cave" way back in the day. Good times. Quackenbush anyone? Anywho - your description of this dude and the circumstances he told you about (River, Depp, Winona - anything on KEANU ??????) actually sound solid. Here's why .... (sezs me )
As your band must be playing the circuit of clubs, sometimes the undergrounds make the best shows as well, this is the place where the die hard, never give it up "I'm past my prime" junkies tend to hang. Once upon a time, this guy was probably fresh out of high school, barely into drugs and caught a lifestyle of acceptance at "The Scene". With that being said - he probably DID run into River along the underground band circuits and cities - I.E. Austin, New Orleans, Seattle, L.A., etc. etc. These guys get around. They go whereever the wind takes them. Drugs and all, because it's the "Scene" they are addicted to as well. From what your story describes him saying - he probably was at the same club River was those many years ago. I understand it was pretty common for River to show up with the underground club scene for acceptance - and any old fool would hand River some snort just to get on the celebrities good side, and get "chummy" with him. Sadly - that is probably this "strung out dudes" ONLY trip down Hollywood lane. Being near River Phoenix at an underground club. This was his 15 minutes of fame in a way. Makes for good conversation to say the least. It's all he has to be proud of and gain attention at the scene in particular. Sadly - that's all he has to hold on to 11 years after the death of River Phoenix.
You tell me Gwaith - my lucky guess would be that this "strung-out" dude who spoke with you is probably in his mid 30's to early 40's perhaps? And maybe his beard could use some trimming along with a trip to the dentist. Since "strung out dude" is still in touch with the River Phoenix of the club scene, and not the modern day "junkies" we see in and out of rehab in the year 2005 - I'm guessing that "strung out dude" probably sleeps from pillar to post, or whomever will offer him a flat at the time. I saw a TON of this in New Orleans during training those many years ago - and the "grand dads" of the 80's are STILL combing the club circuit today. They are just a little older, a bit more "stinky", and might even have a few children by now - not that they ever pay child support or see them for visiting.
I'm not judging him btw - I'm just trying to peice together the profile of a dude who goes to see some pretty awesome bands that I know Austin has, and his topic of conversation is a young man who dies well over 11 years ago in the club scene. After 11 years, most young people 18 - 25 at the clubs will say "River who?"
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yes thanks for your post it made an interesting read. hey icu how are you? i have some sad news. could i tell you about it on the chat bit please? i had a good raking last time i opened my heart out on here so to save more hurt and tears i'll tell you about it in private. nat x x
dude are you ok? and when are the fahitas gonna be ready?
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Yes - it's me ! How'd ya guess? Aaaahahahah (as Ally would say!)
Yep - a "going on middle aged woman" who still has the hots for Keanu that no other actor can hold a candle to. Okay - okay - River was indeed a fine looking man, but I usually go for the big brown eyes myself .
Nooooooo - (shudder!) Linda Blair has not been licking at my boots lately. But do nasty Red Cross workers count for anything? It's a shame when just a few people have to spoil an entire bunch. Ah - long story. But lots of anger still brewing here in the Big Easy. This discussion board is my escape from time to time . How goes it with you Hethra? I think I saw my triangle (ting! ting! ting!) floating down the Mississippi after the levee broke. I didn't bother to rush in and save it. Would you ?
Hey Everybody! Hey Pug! Hey Ana! Hey Ally! Hey Elle! Hey Homie Leonie! Hey Nat! Hey Jiggy! Hey JC! Ooooohhhh JC - have you seen the update to your friends website? Good pics here (when they load). She must still be within NOPD, or at the very least have a press pass to get the close ups she did. Good pics she has taken to get in some of those areas. http://www.norasee.com/katrinaphotos.html
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"Hey JC! Ooooohhhh JC - have you seen the update to your friends website? Good pics here (when they load). She must still be within NOPD, or at the very least have a press pass to get the close ups she did. Good pics she has taken to get in some of those areas."
Hey ICU! No, I hadn't seen those pics yet, so thanks for the link. I told you she was good! I had heard she was ok through someone else, though. But I hadn't checked her website in a week or so. Hadn't even been online in a week or so - how pathetic is that? I've been kind of in a fog since my kitty died three weeks ago (second one in two months, third one in 11 months ). Lots of other fun calamities in my life, too. Ever feel like you're a ship aimlessly afloat with no anchor? That's me. ::sigh::
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I haven't chatted much in the past few months. Never been much of a big fan of it (time reaons and imposters mostly, but that's beside the point ). I AM so sorry to hear what your going through. Sounds like you've had a lot on your plate these past few months. I wish I knew more to say, but unfortunately I've never been much qualified in counseling of this magnitude. Have you sought out a support group? They can be a huge help. I started going to a support group about 2 weeks after Katrina - and it's been a huge help. I don't think we could have gotten back to "normal" without them. Strength comes in numbers. And the more people you have near you who understand your grief - the stronger you will feel. This I know for certain .
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Hurrah, ICU! From one soon to be middle aged woman to another, have another look at Keanu would ya...and another one for me, too. He is eye candy for our age group, isn't he? Yummy.
I've missed chatting with y'all and I'm so glad to hear that you were successful in riding the storm out! (Christ, an REO Speedwagon reference...can you BELIEVE it?) I was thinking about ya....
Welp, I'm off to watch Law & Order: SVU (Christopher Meloni is just too too...I'm old enough now that older men are starting to become really attractive to me really quickly).
I have to say I'm so depressed that your trusty ol' triangle was swept away. Perhaps you'd like to borrow this here kazoo...I'll even wash the old spit out of it for you and everything.
Write back if you get a spare minute....
Hethra
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"Hurrah, ICU! From one soon to be middle aged woman to another, have another look at Keanu would ya...and another one for me, too. He is eye candy for our age group, isn't he? Yummy."
Oh Hethra - you got that right! You know I have to laugh at myself over this, but have you ever heard of the Nickelodeon "Kids Choice Awards"? If you have daughters or neices I am sure you have ! Anyway - I was watching that show last year with my daughter, and when the camera panned the teen audience there was MY beloved Keanu sitting amongst those teenage girls. Oooo! I never felt like kicking so much teeny bopper butt in my life. Gggrrrr! Lemme at 'em! There'd be some hair pulling and shoe pounding worse than a JC Penny white sale. Humph. Well, I hope those teens know that any hanky panky in their dreams is highly illegal - but not for me - mwahahaha!
Geez, can you tell I have been starving for mature teen and decent adult conversation these past several weeks? Aye yi yi!
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Thanks for giving some serious thought and consideration to the tale I was dealt last week. I haven't checked back since I first posted, but it appears the thread lives.
To confirm: You hit the nail on the head with your elaboration of my vague description of our junkie friend. He was probably in his mid-to-late 30s, although it's hard to tell age when junk has exacted its toll. His beard was scraggly, he had an odor, and he definately lived hand to mouth. Yet, that is not what stuck with me -- it was his eyes. My girlfriend was frightened by them, but not me. Had she not been there, I would probably had engaged him more. I am that kind of person that mad people like to cozy up to in bars. I'm just a good listener, and I guess I give that off.
Anyway, I believed completely in the PLAUSIBILITY of the situation from the start. It just seemed like something crazy enough to have happened. I mean -- I know people can invent all sorts of things and then absorb them enough into their psyche as to deliver convincing stories, but why THIS story? Your outline of the possible way the story could have gone down just feels right enough to consider.
Here's another little story from my personal past that I offer for no other reason than to illuminate the power of brief, peripheral contact with "celebrity" or "notoriety." Anyone see that movie "Party Monster" -- either the documentary or the feature film with McCauly Culkin (sp?) and Seth Green? Well, while in college I knew some folks who were club kids in New York, and ran with a lot of the folks involved, including Angel -- the kid who was killed. Without going into gory, unnecessary detail, I knew a VERSION of the story before the NYPD did. The case was still open -- those responsible for the body found floating in the East River had not yet been identified, and I was privvy to inside information -- just because I knew some kids. At the time, how was I to know that they weren't just bullshitting? Well, turns out, the version I heard was the version that eventually came to light, and the one you'll see in the movies. It's a weird, powerful thing to be close to a crime. It's hard not to have it color the rest of your life, become the defining event. I wasn't that close, luckily, but the event still chills me.
Anyway, just my $.02. My sincere thanks to everyone for their help.
-G.Mulligan,
ATex
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Hey JC - I'm in touch. The day will come when our family will have to say goodbye to 2 of our beloved pets who have been nothing short of family to us. One a little shih tzu who could use a fair dose of valium considering she's so high strung (kidding!), and our retired P.D. canine, she's a German Shepherd and one intimidating B-word if ya know what I mean . No one, and I mean no one, would dare even try to break into our home when this mama is around. Our pets are our family too - and I'm so sorry to hear of your pets passing .
Hey Hethra! Come to think of it - I think that was Ally's "triangle" I saw floating in the mighty Mississippi that day - HEE! Seeing as how I've ALWAYS been jealous of our darling Aussie Ally and her Triangle expertise, I am GLAD I let it sink - mwahahahaha! I get jealous like that . Sigh - I couldn't hold a tune to a Kazoo if the good Keanu asked me himself. I think I'll stick with my table dancing act, remeber that? I'm such a horrid dancer you guys could set me up un the table (or even a stage for a spotlight dance - wooohoooo!) and dim the lights reeeaaallly low. Then I could fling my contorted dance moves to Bruce Springsteens "Dancing in the Dark". Dance in the dark? Your dam right I do . I'm worse than Seinfelds "Elaine" - and it don't get much worse than that my friend .
Gwaith - wow man does your post ever bring back those days! If it's okay with our mod Jiggy, maybe post us a link to your band if you could? Sounds like you've been a dedicated mucician for a while now - and have the sense enough to overcome the drug use and terrible pitfalls of so many in the club scene. I wish everyone could. You go Gwaith! Oh yeah - and the eyes you mentioned on the strung out dude. THOSE EYES. We call that the "Stare", ot the "Manson Eyes". You all can call it what you wish . The best way I can describe it, is that the "Stare" hits a brick wall. There's no blinking, and it's just a solid focus on whatever is in front of them at the time. No feeling, no heart, just a solid stare. Manson had brown eyes - which only makes the stare more intimidating with their darkness. But if you've seen the stare enough - even light blue eyes can turn as cold as Arctic Ice. We call guys like this the "Grandads". Not that many even have grandkids, but as long as they have been in the Scene, and survived it at it's worst, they look far older than their years - and it shows. Just by what you mentioned - I have no doubt this guy was probably at the same place River was from time to time - making his rounds at the club circuits. It's all he has to hold on to.
Ooohhh yeah, and about Michael Alig and James St. James - YES INDEED! I'm sorry to say I wasn't in the NOPD at the time to hear first hand any rumors as far South as New Orleans - but the club scene does get around. I would bet that some of our skinheads here remember the rumors and took it as such - rumors. But I do most definetly recall that murder of Angel. Crazy things that go on when drugs take over that bad as it did with all of them. No - the only incident that sticks with me in my early days and the scene in NOLA was a runaway (female) from Georgia. She had taken a bus to the city and even at 17, she was still considered a minor and her parents came to NOLA when they found she had taken a Greyhound here. Rumor has it she o.d. on homemade Crystal meth (pool cleaner and all) and was left in the hot musty addict that they were staying at the time. Granted - this has been only rumor, and I'm sorry to say I do not know for certain if she actually died. I hope not. What was very clear to me at the time way back then was the wars between the skinheads and the Biker dudes. I swear to goodness they were getting jumped left and right, and it started not long after the whole Geraldo episode when ol' Geraldo got his nose broken by a chair on stage. Anywho - the bikers carried their chains around, and the skins took to carrying walking canes in the Big Easy. Not that they even needed them to walk of course, but it was the only "legal" object of defense they could come up with.
Michael Alig - hmmm. Now there's a story. I haven't thought about that fisaco in a really long time. I'm gonna have to check out "Monster Blood Bath" again, and rent "Party Monster" again. Sheesh. That little dude Culkin certainly hit the nail on the head when it came to the club kid - wouldn't you all agree? Too bad he didn't get more credit that he most definetlly deserved. I remeber the scene (for some reason) when Culkin/Alig character was outside the club inviting everyone to his party. "Come to my party", "come to my party", "come to my party". He snappy voice and arrogant invitation was spot on. Thanks for the memories Gwaith, JC, Hethra and everybody - man I needed this thread !!!
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That's really interesting stuff Gwaith. All I know about Angel is the nasty way he died. What was he like when he was alive? A good kid who got mixed up with the wrong crowd? Do tell! We always hear of Alig and his crimes. I'm sure he is just LOVING the attention he gets from the movies and the press. But we never hear much of Angel (Mendez? sp?).
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You said here: "It's a weird, powerful thing to be close to a crime. It's hard not to have it color the rest of your life, become the defining event. I wasn't that close, luckily, but the event still chills me. "
That comment speaks volumes for many of us here. It's a small world when most of us on this board find that one of the things we all have in common, despite our upbringing and age, are the contents of "Morbidly Hollywood".
I've posted so many times this morning, but me thinks this is worth repeating, that many on the board who know me even just a tad by now will recall I've had my own "defining moment" when it comes to crime turned hollywood. I've mentioned this many, many times before - so forgive my broken record - but we had close relations to a young lady murdered in Covington, Louisiana.
In 1995, dummy wimpy ponytail man Tim Robbins and his gloating needs to keep her ass away from Louisiana girlfriend "ho" Susan Sarandum and "oh somebody help me my boat just sank in the e-coli infested Katrina waters of New Orleans" Sean Penn made a movie about her murder called "Dead Man Walking". Don't believe the movie for a moment. And that's coming from someone like yourself who has had a one on one tie that binds with the young lady murdered as well as her family to this day. In a nutshell - her murderers (Robert Willie and Joseph Vaccaro) never made any attempt to reconcile their life and find forgiveness and all that garbage the movie wants you to believe. Willie was a pill to the very end, and bragged of his horrific rapes and murders to anyone who would listen. He was proud of them. Anyway - long story - but regardless, Hollywood has a dreadful way of putting a spin on the real lives of everyday people who find themselves the victim of tragedy like our friends. Probably why I try to expose the Hollywood fairy tale as opposed to the real lives most of us in this world live and endure.
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This I will say about the depictions of crime in literature and fiction: Never can it be as horrible as it was for those involved. Yes, much of it is sensational; and yes, much of it has an agenda. "Dead Man Walking" may have been a pack of lies, but that doesn't matter to me one bit: I am still 100% against granting any state the authority to decide who lives or dies. That is all it comes down to for me. Even if our justice system were pristine, beyond reproach, I would never sign over that power to a governing body, and never vote for anyone to represent me who would. It's too dangerous to the rest of us.
In response to the curiosity-seekers in re: my knowledge of the club kid murder story, I did not know any of the people involved. I only knew people who knew them. I grew up in Brooklyn and was a rock guy -- never one for the club scene. But when I got to college in '91, I met a bunch of people who were a part of it. My girlfriend at the time told me she used to sneak out of her parents' house in Jersey at 15 and 16 to go dance in a cage at The Limelight, and my roommate's girlfriend was the one who actually rolled with Alig, Angel and St. James, et. al. From what I understood, all of them were fucked up on their own trip.
To make the claim that Angel was just a "kid who got mixed up with the wrong crowd" seems something one might not say had he not been killed that night (especially by some of the people on this board who like to demonize addicts.) Any one of those kids could have been a victim, and any one of them could have been a predator, and the truth probably is that -- to a certain degree -- all of us are in our way. No, all of us may not kill, but we certainly possess the capacity to kill. Addiction is a catalyst and, even more so than heroin, power is a drug most potent.
Peace,
Gwaith
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I personally believe the foul play was involved in the untimely death of River Phoenix. Not because River was some sort of "angel" that never took drugs, but because of spiritual wickedness in high and low places.
"Sheriff Brown always hated me, for what I don't know. Everytime I plant a seed he say 'kill them before they grow'" Bob Marley, "I shot the Sheriff"
Many are not aware that Bob Marley had a profound influence on River Phoenix. River knew most of Bob Marleys songs by heart.
There are many reasons why there are forces that would prefer River dead, not the least because of his political and environmental activism.
Advanced assassinations are made to appear to be death by "natural causes" (ie: heart attack, aids/cancer, etc.) or they are made to apprear to be an "accidental death" (ie: car accident, drug overdose, etc.)
Also, it is important to note that the most advanced assassinations are done indirectly by "fueling the fire" between seperate groups and then encouraging and/or enabling the murderous act.
These are my opinions. I have felt that there was foul play since the very moment that I knew he died. I would like for others to let me know what you think. Please post your thoughts in the post entitled "Foul Play Expected..."
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). Lots of other fun calamities in my life, too. Ever feel like you're a ship aimlessly afloat with no anchor? That's me. ::sigh::