Return to Forum  

No Title Can Do this Thread Justice

May 14 2008 at 9:47 PM
Joe  (Login kenporacerx)
from IP address 76.246.58.255


Response to Bart and Shoot matches vs. Exhibitions

Ian - So let me get this straight:

There was a UWF that was fake. But there was another UWF that wasn't fake. Bart fought in real matches in the "real" UWF, but not the "fake" UWF. Also, no one outside of Japan can keep straight which UWF the fights are so we have no way of knowing which ones are which (other than the ones Bart was in). I find this a little hard to believe, particularly since there is conveniently no way to prove or disprove your assertion.

I suggest you reread the initial thread that started this whole discussion and watch the highlight video to the other fights posted. Compare the fights, how they go, and what the techniques look like. The controversy was not if Bart Vale was a real fighter. Nor was it that his shootfighting was good or bad. It was that some of the fights he was in, and the one's shown in the video, were professional wrestling fights with predetermined outcomes as opposed to competitive fights.

Can you honestly say to yourself that the highlight film fights and the two that we know to be legitimate even remotely resemble each other?

Being a professional wrestler who has done both real and predetermined fights does not take anything away from your fighting ability or validity of technique. However, denying reality does.

For reference, I've included a link to a great article that gives a detailed overview of the origins of Japanese professional wrestling and it's links to MMA. I've included a section which talks about UWF and Ken Shamrock. It puts a lot in perspective that will be of value to the readers of this board.

Joe

http://www.sportsline.com/mmaboxing/story/10443463

From the CBS Sportsline Article:

The UWF promised a more realistic style than New Japan and promoted itself as if it were real. This perception was bolstered by Maeda's chaotic history. Maeda was involved in pro wrestling matches that disintegrated into shoots with major stars including Andre the Giant, Satoru Sayama and Riki Choshu.

Ken Shamrock believes many of the fans were fooled into believing the UWF was real.

"Everything they did with punches and kicks and submissions would work in a real life situation, so it was hard to tell if they were being applied or not applied," Shamrock says. "It was hard to tell what was real and what wasn't."

The results of the UWF were still predetermined, but the business was moving more toward reality. This new direction was a smashing success. The first major UWF show sold out a 12,000-seat arena in 15 minutes, with high ticket prices. The main event featured Maeda defeating karate star Gerard Gordeau, more than five years before Gordeau would make it to the finals of UFC 1 against Royce Gracie."

 
 Respond to this message   
Responses

Back To San Jose Kenpo Karate