Thought I would start a thread with your favorite targets that you use along with the weapon to access them.
I was reading through a couple other threads and people mentioned specific targets and how they hit them and got to thinking why not put it all in one place.
The pooint that I've been thinking about lately is what some call #18 on the arteries and nerves on each side of the neck down form the ear. I like a hand sword and a third knukcle strike to this area. I've seem some dramatic responses from individuals who have been impacted in these areas.
If anyone can find online better diagrams of the human anatomy I would appreciate it as Gray’s Anatomy is pretty dry and the illustrations and diagrams could be better also.
Just for a reference point the head and neck is a good beginning as that is the main objective is to shut the brain down.
I cannot find a good illustration that shows the whole thing here as I use to have. As stated before, using a derivative of “Chinese Sword”, I would right inward downward forearm strike while dropping the body weight to the upper right punching forearm at where the radial nerve surfaces, banging the nerve against the bone and stretching said nerve. The head will bob forward exposing the neck and throat. The next move is to left finger tip swat the attacker’s right temple through the left eye and nose as a directional vector. This bangs and stretches the nerves against the bones causing an intense pulse on the sensitive nerves and turns the head so you don’t eat his forehead. Then execute a right fist palm down forearm strike across the whole side of the neck, part of the throat and part of the back of the neck. A good focused follow through strike will cause unconsciousness. Striking the nerve on the arm electrifies the nervous system because of the vulnerability of the area where the nerve surfaces between the muscle and the skin.
What really works is if you can find a type of felt pen that has a ferrous metal casing that a magnet could pick up, iron, steel or nickel alloy. It not only is the sharpness that allows more penetration but there seems to be an electrical malfunction of the electrical chemical energy feeding the area disrupting the flow. It makes sense scientifically or medically. If you do the same combination of pounding with the point of the casing onto the forearm then stabbing dead center the side of the neck that would guarantee a KO if you don’t cause very serious injury.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 6, 2009 12:41 PM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 6, 2009 12:39 PM
There are numerous techniques that target this area.
However, there is one via military hand to hand that in one case is for an overhand right punch to the chin from an orthodox stance. The idea is to duck but the left hand is in front to check for a knee lift and the right arm circles with the right palm flashing in front of the attacker’s face. The right arm continues the motion and then the forearm hammers down on the upper forearm targeting the radial nerve then pulls and draws the attacker toward the defender off balancing. The defender’s left hand reaches around the back to the nape of the neck and digs the ring and middle fingers into between the neck and the trap in and down forty-five and wiggles around. The defender then grabs and hugs the head with the left grasping the chin and pressing against the defender’s chest. The defender places the door knocker knuckles of the right fist behind and below the attacker’s right ear lobe. With a quick pull back on the chin and at the same time the right fist presses in hard with the right knuckles and rips up diagonally and through the temple.
This is classified as a blood knockout. If you look at the illustrations you can see that it would be possible to sever the veins, small arteries and the cranial nerves or at least stretch and damage said nerves. There is a lot of physical evidence here but this was to incapacitate the enemy then break the enemy’s neck for the kill.
We obviously modified this for a punching scenario and go to the choke out for civilian purposes but you can see the military application. The previous generations of warriors were smart, ruthless but smart.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.181 on Oct 11, 2009 10:13 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.19 on Oct 6, 2009 1:54 PM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.19 on Oct 6, 2009 1:53 PM
The lateral aspects of the neck are great targets. If you want to be gentle, use the flat surface of the forearm. If you prefer more trauma, use the knife edge of the hand and target the carotid sheath which is closer to the lower airway. (if you know cpr then you know to feel for the carotid pulse point for location).
The first two techniques in the Tracy system teach this stuff: Japanese Sword and Chinese Sword.
The solar plexus is also a good target because a stunning effect can be caused, without any bleeding, and the body tends to drop down rather than getting knocked back, reducing the liklihood of a fall induced head trauma.
A quick back fist or a vertical punch so that the jaw bone is in between the first two knuckles.
In Tai Chi Chuan is a posture titled “Raised Hands” and one of the applications is to slap crisply on the forearm where the Radial Nerve comes out , surfacing between the muscle and skin with the fingers and palm of the back open hand.
Then it is the back of the other open hand to the same side jaw at Stomach-5 down at a fory-five.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.15 on Nov 2, 2009 4:34 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 7, 2009 9:36 AM
I worked on some nerve techs with a kenpo brother today for about 2 hours in the park.
He also is into Qui Quong excercises. He taught me a couple to increase my chi flow. They were very stimulating. It was a little funny to take my hands and rub m y arms and legs to transfer the energy. He then clapped his hands to shut off the flow.
I found the nerve strikes we practiced to be very effective as well as requiring very little physical effort. I'm looking forward to a new mission of discovery in my study of kenpo.
In case of the Tai Chi Chuan posture “Raised Hands”, the weight is mostly on the back foot and the front foot is on the heel with the toes raised up off the deck. One application is if the attacker is in an unorthodox stance with the same foot and hand on the same side then it would be to side step out, heel kick the instep to shin, slap the forearm with the back open hand, and do the front open back hand to the jaw as close to the same time as possible. The heel kick does make the body off balanced forward so the jaw shot is open.
One of the principles is to attack the same nerve in three places which amplifies the effect. For instance, a trap block for a right punch would be to left slap the right forearm at that branch of the Radial Nerve, right hammer the upper forearm, pull the attacker in and execute a left point of the elbow, by pivoting the defender’s body to their right, to the back of the neck where the Radial Nerve goes into the spine. Variations would be to lean back and toe kick up to between the legs (Orthodox Boxing Stance) the jump back with the right leg into a kneeling stance using the body weight to add to the pull in jerk, pivot then left elbow strike. Keeping the chin tucked in so that the right front top corner of the defender's head points to the attacker’s head is important. This provides for protection and if there is an opportunity, head butt the right eye socket knocking the eyeball back, under the check bone or the side of the jaw. All hit nerves and will overload the system with so many impulses that it will cause a TKO or KO.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.144 on Oct 7, 2009 10:32 AM
I have seen and worked out with the group that has to do with the Aiki-Shinobi. The praying hands position is deceptive because it has the appearance of being non threatening. The combination whereby you parry on the outside of the punch then spread the arms out to strike like the movement of “Brush Knee Push and Step” in Tai Chi Chuan is one application. Work the inside with different combinations etc.
Just don’t pull this on a good Choy Li Fut practitioner though. My buddy was working out with one of the members of the group and his partner got into this posture and in a split second he had slapped with both hands on either side of the praying hands then grasped and twisted him to his knees in a heart beat.
I like working out with the old seasoned vets. You still can learn a thing or two.
It might be a cultural thing as this praying hands posture was first initiated to nullify a potentially physical confrontation from the front, then if an attack comes use the praying hands to deflect the one-two. There were numerous movements because this was all free form. At times the hands did not spread out but became like in Tai Chi Chuan “Press with Palms” or after the deflection poke point the with the hands toward the eye and when the attacker’s reaction is to repulse away take advantage of the off balance and drop him down without much effort.
I am just amazed at what seems to be in Kosho and how similar it is to what I have been exposed to which is the Aikijujutsu, Shinobi Jutsu,(GM Sid Woodcock) Red Boat Wing Chun, Northern Praying Mantis, Baguzheng, Monkey, Tai Chi Chuan (Sifu Fook Yueng). It is the adhering to another’s arms, legs or body without grasping or resistance. Basically it is the “sticky hands” part of the systems and not those entire systems. Both of the local masters now elderly developed their own method years ago due to the fact it was way too much to practice each system and keep things straight so took the best things of the all. Fook Yueng’s blend is Yueng Chuan and Sid Woodcock’s is “Practical Self-Defense”.
Getting back to the technology of attacking the nervous system, one of the take downs is for a two hand front lapel grab where you chop down with both hands your left to his upper right forearm (Radial Nerve) your right to his left upper forearm. Then you slip your left hand to his right arm pit and your right hand grasp the attacker’s left upper traps near the neck so that your right thumb is in the hollow of the collar bone. Use the middle and ring finger of the left hand to have the middle above a rib and the ring finger below the rib. The fingers of the left hand dig in and wiggle changing pressure but moving very fast. The right thumb bangs back and forth down and in at a forty-five degree angle to the neck and hollow. Just keep banging and wiggling hard and fast, thinking of electricity arching between the hands at the heart. Just take him down to your left. This works good.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.181 on Oct 8, 2009 12:11 PM
Dear Brian,
When I get a chance to practice with one of my old kenpo "bros" we will work on this technique.
It sounds interesting to say the least. Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks!
I am an old dog (60) myself so some of this is fairly new and some I had put it off to the side because I did not quite get the application. This take down I did at a demo and it works just fine. What is being floating around (Kenpo Clan is one of the arts that attract law enforcement which some sub styles has the FMA imbedded into their method) is attacking the nerves to control, subdue an individual without leaving physical evidence. This is the west coast region of the northwest and the winters are wet and cold. The bad guys if outside are dressed for the weather so some of this technology would not be worth the trouble to develop. This is the impact on this stuff, the warmer the climate the less clothing so you can utilize more areas.
So, what is always available is arm pits, neck, throat, hands, wrist, feet, and ankles, almost all of the legs. It is the core of the body that would be mostly insulated so some body shots just will not work well. Folks wear jeans so leg hits are fine.
None the less, yes we are leaning toward including this for LEO as they have been doing this for awhile on the east coast.
Another one is to grasp the back of the neck pinching and digging into the nerves next to spine where the softer tissue is with one hand and at the same time with the other hand press the thumb second knuckle and the index finger second knuckle into the Mental Nerves of the chin directly down from the corners of the mouth. You will find it. If you press hard in and down toward the throat the neck muscles cannot be flexed so you can take them down, snap the neck, or put them in a position for a choke.
I am going to just throw out some stuff on the site from head to foot as I am amping up to do a demo next month in Portland with a whole lot of other high ranking instructor black belts of the Kenpo clan of the Pacific Northwest.
There are other variations of this technique such as using a thumb braced on top of closed fist index finger. The tip will protrude out about an inch and is braced on the index finger. One hand digs and pinches into the back of the neck while the front hand digs in the Philtrum just under the nose. This is in and up through the top back of the head forty-five degrees as a directional vector. The thumb wiggles left and right horizontally while applying the pressure in and up. This will dysfunction the legs and a take down is without that much resistance. Another variation is to use the second knuckles, like knocking on a door, applying pressure in, up, forty-five and wiggle side to side quickly.
This has to be dealt with. The attacker’s hands go up. I can see some advantages but if you do not follow through with something else there may be some problems. If it is a front grab or choke this will cause the attacker to weaken or let go to deal with the hands but still the attacker’s hands are up near your face and throat.
It really is amazing what you can learn on this forum!
I picked up on striking the nitch behind the ear with a knuckle the other day. I don't have a "bob" yet so I'm working my nerve strikes using a heavy bag. The intuitive nature of performing the strikes have somewhat surprised me as I thought that they would be much more difficult to execute that they actually are.
You have to try the technology on humans. It is not necessary to strike there as I have watched where two were grappling with one in the mount trying to get a front sleeper lock and the other took his right finger tips and pressed in behind the jaw below the ear lobe in the vector horizontally through the opposite side eye and successfully countered. With other nerve combinations, left hand to the left grabbing wrist and the right fist second knuckles behind the left elbow, wiggling up and down the arm quickly (Golgi Body Tendon Organs) got the opponent off and into a compromising position of vulnerability. It ended up with the participant on the bottom on top with the wrist lock and the right knee on the back of the elbow near the shoulder and the left knee on the back of the lower forearm. The opponent was pinned. I have not seen anyone successfully counter this pin. You can eat your lunch until they run out of gas then do whatever.
Tracy’s has “Bear Hug” using the “Key Fist” cork screwing the attacker. Try using it against the below the ear lobe in a direction of in and up toward the opposite side front top corner of the forehead. The attack lets go and the arms go up. Toward the nose they weaken and let go. Directing down toward the opposite front lower jaw they let go and the knees buckle and the arm stay on the same level plane but they are no longer a threat. The cork screw to the middle of the side of the neck is even more dynamic. Reference Triple Warmer-17 and Large Intestine-18.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 12, 2009 5:24 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 12, 2009 5:20 AM
I like the double simultaneous open hand slaps to either side of the neck and jaw. The hand configuration is open with the thumbs stretched forward laying in between the seam of the index and middle fingers. The thumb lines up with the jaw line with the middle finger touches the back of the neck. A hard crisp double slap causes a TKO.
Placing the index and middle fingers straight out with the thumb in between the seam with the ring and little fingers laying flat on the heel, this to me is a better configuration and a good hit puts a shock and trauma to the carotid sheath making it a good chance for KO.
Double simultaneous downward in forty-five through aiming at the side of the neck to the hollow of the collar bone using chops concentrating on the little finger side wrist bone as the weapon is good.
“Wind Fills the Ears” from Tai Chi Chuan is two simultaneous inverted tong type punches using the first knuckles to dead center the ears is a good shot. Targeting the back of the neck above the traps is another, below the ear lobe and the temple are also possibles.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 9, 2009 1:25 PM
That is, one very good strike.
Combined with AKs term of "Marriage of Gravity"...
Saw this about that...
****
Based on four basic principles of physics; torque, back-up mass, borrowed force, and marriage of gravity.
Kenpo allows even the smallest person to achieve maximum effectiveness by employing proper body mechanics.
****
The body mechanics of the striker and strikee, are at work.
One of the techniques in Gaylord Method Kajukenbo is for a left right combination. You do what you have to make the attacker miss the target, which is your face, so that you can right slap the back of the forearm where the Radial Nerve comes to the surface and branches out. The right comes in and you do the same thing which folds the attacker’s arms in front trapping the arms. Then with the right back hand strike the attacker’s right eye. The hand folds so the wrist bends into the eye knocking the ball back. There are quite a few nerves around the cheek, socket, under and on top of the eyebrow that would cause a sudden stunning shock thus causing a TKO in most and in some cases a KO.
There are variations that has to do with backing or leaning back to slap down on the same nerve but further down primarily the back of the forearm next to the wrist so that one can execute a right shin kick to the groin next then the eye strike. Of course due to most in Kajukenbo were smaller stature at the time of formation the end is to jump up slap both sides of the neck with both hands then pull the down into a right knee lift to the nose.
There are different sequences but the basic thought is to strike a low extremity to activate the nervous system then the upper extremity and finally the neck and above. You have to think of energy flow to the brain. This is not always the case. For instance, the sign of the cover fist, the left palm strikes the top front right corner of the forehead, the right (thumb down inverted fist) using the index knuckle to below the ear lobe at the same time. If in a right front cat stance then the right foot is stepping on the attacker’s forward foot to get him down to a workable level. None the less the two hand simultaneous strikes has a good effect.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.145 on Oct 10, 2009 10:55 AM
There are three areas where the bridge of the nose meets the skull, one point on each side under the eyebrow and one dead center between the eyes. There a few ways to cause a TKO without shedding blood, one is an upward palm heel strike which fits like a glove because of the bones on the inside of the wrist and heel of the hand, another is an upward vertical back fist.
The same area can be used for a face lock from behind with the right forearm across the bridge of the nose and the left hand grasping the right. This is a squeeze where the direction is down first then roll up. The legs go out. This also depends on the shape of the skull and face. A more smooth forehead and shorter nose might require just the downward squeeze. In all the left point of the elbow is digging into sensitive areas of the upper back and this is a tight bear hug. The same is done under the nose which the best is in and up forty-five and do the body arm jiggle and a little left right saw movement. This is not user friendly for Uke.
Instead of a (Head Lock, which is more a choke) get the forearm under the cheek bone and the Philtrum. Now the same idea is from the front the right shoulder goes under the cheek bone where the nerve comes out and branches and the lock on the back of the neck where the nerves start going into the spine. The forearm is in down then roll to up and the shoulder in then rolled up forty-five. This is pressing the nerves against bone and in some cases then rubbed and or stretched to get the impulse. The body does not like cross body multiple nerve bundle damage especially the head.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.23 on Oct 11, 2009 10:32 AM
The same hand arm configuration can be used directly in front of the attacker. The right shoulder is on the chin if possible and the right forearm is across the back of the neck. The squeeze is down and in then roll up forty-five towards you. This obviously is potentially damaging but it does shut down the legs. I taught a class where I did this with my shoulder underneath the chin then I leaned my upper body back then quickly pushed my upper body forward and dropped my weight at the same time and threw him down. Granted my uke was my size and I never have tried this on a big guy but I feel because you are disrupting the electrical chemical energy to the brain and the blood flow I am sure this would have the same effect.
Using this same lock with the shoulder against the side cheek bone and the forearm across the side of the neck and using the same method in then up at a forty-five. An associate sent me a vid where he was grappling and put this on his partner and his partner went out in less than a second.
All of these locks described can be used in a grappling situation.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.23 on Oct 11, 2009 5:10 AM
This same lock from the rear can use the knuckle joint of the thumb up from the nail to under the nose with the shoulder in the back of the neck, the shoulder to front cheek and the thumb in the back close to the spine is an effective one.
Another is an overhead downward palm heel slap to between the eyes then an upward thrust. This will off balance the opponent backwards.
I call this one the noogy, whereby if the individual has long enough hair that you can one hand grab the side of the head where there are nerves running on an imaginary line around from pupil to the back of the head. You use the second knuckles to quickly rub and dig into the skull from front to back then pull the opponent toward you then drive the opponent to the ground. This works with the other side forearm across around back of the neck to the side of the neck then squeeze and rub briskly and press in hard and take him down this way if the opponent does not have long enough hair. This one surprisingly works pretty good.
Grab the front of the hair with one hand and with the knuckles wiggle, press in hard using the hair as a bridge support and move your arm around in a small circular spiraling motion to drive the opponent down. Humans cannot deal with circular patterns as the neck muscle were designed for linear resistance, front to back, side to side, angle front to back , angle front to back on the other side. This affects your balance and the reference to where you are in relation to the floor, ceiling, and walls, as an example, to keep yourself balanced upright.
A double slap to each side of the neck then dig the thumbs into Stomach-9 which is on the level of the Larynx, in between the muscle striations. The thumbs dig in then down at a forty-five to buckle the legs, the arms go down for the first second, bring the opponent towards yourself, control and take down. You can do the same thing from the rear using the middle and ring fingers. This is not in the hollow between the Larynx and the muscles as this will affect the carotid sheath which may be quite damaging.
Try using these seizes in quick few combinations to eliminate resistance and counters to get to the point of a KO preferably.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.23 on Oct 11, 2009 10:36 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.144 on Oct 11, 2009 8:42 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.144 on Oct 11, 2009 8:42 AM
The shoulder, arms and upper body have a few points (areas) that will affect the sensitivity of the nerves of the neck and head. We have already discussed “Chinese Sword” so I will move on to other areas. In Tracy’s there is a technique named “Sleeper” That is just that.
The main position is with your right shoulder in the attacker’s right arm pit and the defender’s right forearm around the attacker’s left side of the neck. The left hand palm up grabs the right hand palm down. The squeeze of the right forearm is down and in forty-five then rolled horizontally. The right shoulder is in and up directed toward the left side of the neck. The combination causes pain in the right arm pit, compressing the Carotid Sheath on the attacker’s right side with the attacker’s right shoulder. The right forearm is stretching and compressing the nerves and the sheath.
The same movement can be done with the right forearm across the right deltoid muscle.
The movement of the forearm squeeze is down and in then roll the forearm toward the defender’s abdomen. This will compress and stretch the nerves against the bone causing a dysfunction including a sympathetic response that buckles the legs.
One of the combinations the combines the arms, neck, then the body is “Chinese Sword” whereby after the right forearm hammer fist strike to the upper forearm (Radial Nerve) the next motion would be a left all finger tips strike to the right temple through the attacker’s left eye as a vector, the chop to the right side of the neck is a strong hit with more of the forearm and continue the motion so it is a slash. If available, the left chop hand strikes the upper lip to the Philtrum ideally or a left palm will work. Then the last is the right front twisting snap punch to Kidney-21 Left.
The nerve runs in between the ribs. There is not much protection there on height weight proportionate people. The left side is more sensitive on than the right. Just take your own right tip of the thumb and twist and dig around and you will find the spot. The impact with the twist using the index knuckle twists the nerves in the area and affects the Vagus and Phrenic Nerves directly and indirectly therefore affects the Heart and the Lung functions.
Gray's Anatomy Illustration 797
Follow the Kidney Meridian Kidney-22 and up and see how this is close to where the Phrenic Nerve lines up.
If on the money this is a stun, KO or can be more serious depending on the focus and the health of the attacker. One of the principles one should remember as people move around a bit if they get hit so the attacker will move and the defender will have to move to keep in the correct range to make the affect.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.144 on Oct 20, 2009 1:32 PM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.144 on Oct 20, 2009 1:30 PM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 20, 2009 10:19 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 20, 2009 10:11 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.182 on Oct 20, 2009 8:50 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.182 on Oct 20, 2009 8:32 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.182 on Oct 20, 2009 8:20 AM
If standing erect you can find the area by using a thumb to press in and down at a forty-five which affects the nerve running between the ribs. This is about half the distance from the collar bone to the nipple. Move the thumb closer to the sternum and you will feel another sharp pain shock which is Kidney-25.
This also a downward forty-five strike. One can use a hammer fist with the little finger knuckle as the weapon. Off to the side one can use an inverted punch in the same angle. If the attacker is bent over forward than it would be a straight front punch. In Gaylord Method Kajukenbo there is a movement at the end of a form that after the movement of two chopping hands on the upper forearms, Radial Nerves, the next motion is two simultaneous punches to Stomach-15, Kidney-25 area as the reaction is to bend over forward due to the hits on the Radial Nerve. Basically the two strikes are aimed at spots that are on the same level as the nipple and about half the distance between the nipple and the solar plexus. The strikes are on either side of the Heart and obviously why the simultaneous strikes are directed towards this area.
Many martial sciences concern themselves with protecting the centerline. It is very obvious why the concern. A hard penetrating front thrust punch to dead center, where the heart is, is potentially lethal.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.182 on Oct 22, 2009 3:49 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 21, 2009 1:26 PM
A hammer strike with the arm and the good old axe kick do a similar thing. Just break his collar bone. Or at least try it, it isn't any pleasant anyway.
Dear Gustavo,
Your posting some good stuff brother!
I agree with you about the collarbone. I like grabbing it and giving it a tug as well. A palmheel strike is also very effective.
Glad that you like it. I currently train Toshinkai Karate (a Kyokushinkai offshoot) and Nueva Era Jujitsu (similar to German Jujutsu). My previous arts where Shotokan Karate and Bujinkan Ninjutsu, but I didn't like them.
I am 30 years old and live in Montevideo, Uruguay.
The area where the neck and traps meet is a very good place to manipulate. Pressing the finger tips from behind with the left hand to the attacker’s left trap in the combination of a right hand pinch grab the attacker’s right wrist is a good take down.
Both hands grabs both sides of the traps from the front, then roll the knuckles forward and pull back towards you is a good take down.
A good right forearm and hammer to the attacker’s right trap just after the right toe kick to the inside of the left ankle is pretty effective.
Obviously going slow and with light contact is recommended. Using this kind of technology your work out partners will not like surprises.
I actually picked that one up from Lua. Some of the concepts I learned years ago at a seminar conducted by Solomon Kaihewalu. Hopefully, this art will flourish intact as it is very impressive.
I was hoping to see the joint locks and the explanation of how to dislocate the joints “bundling”. Such as nice term for dislocating all the major joints of the body and twist fold you up like an accordion pretzel then the finishing skullduggery.
Lua is in a league of its own. “Sol” is the one that convinced me to research attacking the nervous system. A tropical climate martial science that stresses striking the nerves, grabbing the flesh because of less clothing and defending against fleshy people, dislocating the joints as a means of seizing and controlling. It was interesting to think about this system’s development. Pretty obvious that there was a long history of conflict to get to this level of expertise of hand to hand without weapons.
Take the index and middle fingers of the right hand and hook the fingers to the attacker’s right of the notch in the collar bone and press in, down at a forty-five and back toward yourself. This gets more of the nerves than straight in and down in front of the throat.
I agree that this area is extremly succeptible to a grab and pull into a body or head strike.
You know it's funny when you see the folks bareback in the UFC. Most are pumped up and have well defined neck and collarbone areas. Probably the reason that the UFC does not allow incapacitating strikes to these areas.
Please keep up the "free" education. You all are up in the stuff on the forum. Your help is much appreciated!
I have posted on this maybe a couple of years ago but it is a good example. We were doing experiments on defenses for a two handed front lapel grab. My friend Bernie was maybe 5’10” or a little more and weight was around 160 lbs. Larry was 6’1” and 235 lbs. Larry was the aggressor. This was pretty much full blast. Larry moved and struck Bernie around the Stomach-15 point with two palm heel strikes with the fingers pointing out to the sides. Then he grabbed the pecs with his fingers in the arm pits and pulled Bernie back towards himself and had Bernie on his tip toes.
The bones of the wrist got the nerve or nerves that runs along with the rib usually between the ribs themselves. This affected the lung function. The pec grab is really from Shinobi and we suspect Jujutsu. It is a throw where you get them in this position then shuffle side step and sweep their feet out from underneath them. You can also use this like the attacker is a door to move and escape.
Bernie was toast in the first split second. The palm heel strikes pretty much shut down his lungs and paralyzed his arms. He was a rag doll and was fighting to keep from going out. Maybe the pain from the fingers digging into the nerves between the ribs in the arm pit and the shark bite grip on the pec muscles that he couldn’t defend himself against probably kept him from going completely out.
A well trained light heavy weight man can generate a considerable amount of power. This is why I use small movement such as twisting my waist so I do not give the attacker a flat surface. I favor doing a distraction along with this such as a fast claw to the groin just as he amps up. I sure am not going to be serious about doing a technique after the attacker grabs after being a witness to this scenario.
That's a good point Briaqn about the sidewise turn of the body to present a smaller target.
We are alos trained by my Kenpo Sensei, the late Mike Sanders, to turn sideways in a knife fight for the same reason.
I'm also an ex-fencer by the way and spent some time this morning in my private office practicing strikes with my tanto style folder/EMT knife.
Great fun! The fellow from SA who has posted recently has made some excellent comments. I forgot the name at the moment. I'm sure we'll here more from him on these subjects.
Gustavo Sosa is his name and he is from Uruguay. We have been corresponding from time to time for awhile now. I have been encouraging him to write more when he has the time. There is a big problem with the Martial Sciences of that area. It is more sport tournament type sciences. If you are big, strong, in shape and gutsy you can make the power orientated systems work in the street. If you are not that big then you should be trained in CQC and weapons both defense against and the safe efficient use of practical armament. The bads man are bad everywhere.
There is a whole side bar to attacking the nervous system and that is sounds. The main nerve you study is the Vagus Nerve and where it is hooked up from the reptilian brain to the reproductive system. Think primal and you will get an idea. This nerve is hooked up to your hearing. If you make the right sound before or during the initial attack you can fool the primitive mind. I have seen some pretty weird stuff over the years. It is not fake or witchcraft or supernatural, it is on the high end of martial science training. Granted to be considered a “master” of this aspect you would have to be trained since childhood and have the talent, confidence, and belief that it works. I just concentrate on a few sounds that go with what I am doing.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.15 on Oct 24, 2009 10:08 AM
Forgive me the pun brother! Shades of BL in your last post. LOL!!
I've found that the "primal sounds" that come out in CQC work to startle your opponent as well as stimulate your own mental and physical processes. I'm not sure about the requirement to train to do this from childhood. The good "old fashioned" Kiaaa! works well when uses infrequently in training/free sparring. In CQC I remember being told I had "screamed" but had no conscious memory of it when I was involves in an incident years ago.
Confidence is the not so secret ingredient to make things work for you. It sounds like and his a deceptively simple principle that seperates the leaders from the followers.
I will just throw some things out that can be practiced. This does require timing and awareness. This is for a front grab for the lapel, or throat or a two handed front push. Turn the upper body to the left, quickly move your right hand in a claw in front of the groin and at the same explosive time bare your teeth, growl and stare intently at his groin. Then make a high chirp bark sound and use the right to strike with the edge of the palm using the wrist bone of the little finger side to strike under the left eyebrow next to the bridge of the nose while giving him a startled wide eyed surprised look. There is something else but that should be good for now. This is the “screw with the head” technology that goes along with the nerve manipulation.
I was bullied in school and had to be a street fighter from age 4, having even 2 fights per day or more. My last street fight was around 20 or 21. I am 30 now.
Martial Arts are very different from self-defense, but I have been able to polish my skills. I learned the psychological part and the dirty tricks the hard way. One thing I used a lot was a primal scream. Think of an angry mountain gorilla charging against you. I have always been a little skinny, but the scream (combined with the facial gestures of aggressiveness) made a great effect. The idea I want to inspire in my opponent is "this guy is gonna rip my head off and won't regret it".
Of course it won't work every time, and if you fail your attack it will be just ridiculous and the effect will be reversed.
I think Gene Lebell has written some stuff on this issue. Gene has used this technique in tournaments over and over.
Ps. Professor Baxter, thanks for the introduction.
When LEO it was very apparant that a few things were really needed at time of war in the street, hand to hand...Education in MA was nice, as was the use of the baton with expert application. Pressure points and striking them very effective.
I am looking forward to more of this discussion by you BB and your amigo G. Sosa
Sid Woodcock learned additional using sounds (Kiai Jutsu) from a monk while marooned with his group of OSS agents in the foothills of Tibet for a time until they could be evacuated. The monk stated that there were approximately 2,500 different sounds. No one as of yet knows the significance of the number 2,500. I have read and been told this number in reference to a monastery military science before, referring to “techniques”. Sid knows about one hundred or so combinations of sounds. Some are animal some are very odd sounds that humans would not normally make. For instance a high octave, as the uke is running toward you, to low will make him sink bending the knees. Then you can do the opposite to make him high centered.
Sid taught Bruce Lee, that is where he got the sound. The famous kiai is a multi octave type sound procedure. This was used to issue at the moment of the attacker initiating the attack when the mind is locked and fully committed and the muscles start moving to the program of the intent. That is when the kiai is issued. It does screw you up and in my case I did a stutter step and lost my balance making a counter to my attack a piece of cake.
There was a kind of humorous situation that one of the practitioners of this had some serious problems because the assailant was hard of hearing. Don’t forget your bread and butter basics. Everything else is just embellishment when you think about it.
One combination involving the limbs, body and neck is for the defense of a left grab the defender’s right lapel then execute a right punch to the face. Execute a right downward chop to the upper left forearm (Radial Nerve) then roll the right hand forward toward the attacker and pull the attacker’s arm with the right chopping hand toward yourself. Left vertical chop to the attacker’s right biceps where the Median Nerve is next to the bone at the same time as the right chop to the left upper forearm. This is followed by a right index knuckle vertical punch to the left nipple Stomach-17.
Execute a left downward hammer fist strike to Stomach-15 Right using the little finger knuckle, down and in forty-five if standing up straight. With the right leg bump the inside to out the attacker’s left leg. This is followed by a right sandwich elbow with the left palm heel striking Stomach-5 and the right arm under the left side of the jaw with the point of the elbow striking the left back side of the neck at Gall Bladder-20.
This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.23 on Oct 29, 2009 5:40 AM This message has been edited by B.B.Baxter from IP address 130.76.32.16 on Oct 25, 2009 11:21 AM
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