Oh how I miss round kicks. but that's one of the things I must not do with a newly grafted ACL ligament. sigh, sniff, pout.
OK, enough pity party.
Not sure what a Kenpo roundhouse is exactly.
I learned my Kenpo from Master Munk. And I learned my muay thai from an MMA fighter. The way Master Munk taught me a round kick, and the way the MMA fighter taught me a round kick, are almost the same. The only difference I've noticed is at what point the arcing motion begins.
I never pictured recoiling either of them. But perhaps I'm just so focused on going through the target that I've never consciously thought about it.
Thanks for making my point. As far as I am concerned, a roundhouse is a roundhouse. I have never heard of a "kenpo roundhouse" either, although I was taught a roundhouse as part of the curriculum.
I know very little about MT but the differences that I see between the two, from what I was taught, begins with striking area. Shin bone in MT and instep or toes in Kenpo. Then I was also shown a difference in proximity. Whereas with kenpo, I am more in-line with the reciever in the delivery, and what I was shown in MT was being positioned more to the flank of the reciever (on impact). Also I have seen a difference in lead foot position. In kenpo I was taught to rotate on the lead foot and in MT I was shown to place the lead foot already pointing on an outward 45 degree angle then delivering the strike.
I bet I can guess one of your counters--spin back kick to the groin? We used to do that all the time to people who plant first or kick high too often. Been many an opponent in the fetal position for a few minutes from that kick when we had the gyms in Louisville Kentucky. As I remember, Pat made a few look for their contact lens after being countered with such a kick. Gary Avery
Jason,
You are right about the striking area. It is the shin. The kick is delivered like you were swinging a baseball bat with the bat being the shin of the leg. An important point to remember is when you deliver the kick with your back right leg, for example, the upper part of your body twists in the opposite direction. This greatly amplifies the power of the move. It takes a little practice but to transform a kick from a conventional round house to a MT round house. I guarantee once you have caught on to is you will not forget it.
Jason,
You are right about the striking area. It is the shin. The kick is delivered like you were swinging a baseball bat with the bat being the shin of the leg. An important point to remember is when you deliver the kick with your back right leg, for example, the upper part of your body twists in the opposite direction. This greatly amplifies the power of the move. It takes a little practice but to transform a kick from a conventional round house to a MT round house. I guarantee once you have caught on to is you will not forget it.
I have explained in the past about a Northern style roundhouse. The waist and the hands palm down, chest high, rapidly twist to the left, if kicking right, then pivot on the front left ball of the foot having the toes point to the rear with the right leg just off the ground in the back. The hands now twist with the waist in the opposite direction while the kick is executed. The kick hangs back until the tendons are all stretched out then the twist and execute. You have to use a bag to get the feel. You press forward with the body when executing or lean back with the body weight. If you did not strike through the intended target you would fall down. The angle of the shin kick striking the target has to be experimented with to get the skill and accuracy. There are some differences from the Thai kick but not that much. It still is an all or nothing final strike to dispatch.
I was not aware that this type of kick was used in any other styles other than Muy Thai.
Those who know and practice it will agree that it can be devastating when down correctly.
In fairness to everyone I'm not condemming those who perform the standard roundhouse kick with the ball of the foot. I still would use this kick as well for specific targets. For knockdown rib breaking, stance busting effectiveness is hard to beat the Muy Thai roundhouse.
Yep! Sure is hard to beat. But not impossible to beat.
Just sayin...
I love the Muay thai roundhouse. But I'd be willing to bet that the Kenpo spinning back kick is equally as devastating, if not more so. A good canted side kick to the ribs is pretty ferocious as well.
Also, I have learned a couple of good counters to the muay thai round kick that are quite devastating if you get the timing right.
The Brazilians say, "The horse should not go too thirsty to the water." If you put so much behind that kick, you are sending a great deal of momentum toward your opponent. If they are successful at countering you, it's gonna hurt really really bad.
Every technique has a counter. For most of the good techs the best "counter" is not to be in the position where the move can be used on you. The reverse roundhouse kick is devastating as anyone who has taken a shot to the kidneys will tell you. A side thrust kick can break major ribs if thrown correctly as well. The point I'm trying to make is to not let "style" get in the way of your combat proficency. Take whatever you can use from whoever you can and pass it on the others.
No style has a monopoly of the martial arts. It's the fighter that always counts the most.
I agree with your post, it is a devastating kick when it lands. If you (meaning everyone) have ever watched a Muay Thai match in Thailand you will see that when they miss with this kick they put so much momentum in it that they turn around in a full cirlce to again face their opponent.
That is one of the drawbacks to the kick. It is a very commited attack that you need to be sure will land. Kind of like a big haymaker punch. If it lands you are in trouble, but with that power comes a trade off.
Dear Punisher,
You're right about the consequences if you over commit and miss. Why not add a spinning back knuckle to the mix. As the recipient of more than a few spinning backnukles, that probably accounts for my Alzheimers!, I know how effective this technique can be! The backnuckle will definetly deter a followup to the kick.
BTW, it is possible to be fully committed without being overcommitted. A full power, fully committed kick that misses does not have to result in lost balance, stumbling, wide openings, etc.
The main difference is that Muay Thai uses a "straight leg" kick. You are supposed to pull the whole of your rear leg and deliver a penetrating strike. The standard karate uses a "flexed leg" with a snapping motion, first raising the thighs and then extending the leg to hit with the shin or foot, depending on the style; and you hit and bring back, you are not supposed to go through the guy. Some Kyokushin people use the same technique.
I don't like any version. I prefer thrusting kicks.
essentially the muay thai round kick is a glorified half wheel
November 11 2009, 5:46 PM
notice the open step 45 degrees from the fighting horse versus the sideways defensive rear foot wheel we execute from a kenpo side fighting stance. Advantage: amazing power. Disadvantage: huge telegraph.
Dear Zach,
I don't know how many Muy Thai matches that you have witnessed either on TV, movies, or in person.
I wouldn't be so bold to dismiss the kick as being so blantantly "telegraphed". The skills of each individual fighter come into play here as well.
The pictures that you sent did not come through on the post you sent. Could you try to send them again please?
Hi Gary.
I'm routing for Randy Couture.
You seem to like MMA and the UFC.
Thought I'd mention that my acquaintance, Raphael Assuncao, will be fighting Urija Faber in WEC 46 this January. I don't think it's been announced yet. But I think they are the headline event for that show. You might know of Raphael's brother, Junior Assuncao, who is a UFC veteran.
UFC is the biggest brand out there, but not necessarily the best fighters. I think shows like WEC can have better/more exciting fights.
Raphael is the underdog against Faber. But I wouldn't count him out. I've trained with him! There's a good reason he tattooed a wolf on his rib cage!
Whatever happens, it will probably be an exciting match. Worth the money for ppv.
Gary Avery
