Artillery of Persia?August 26 2006 at 2:49 PM
There is one more country about which army it is very poorly known. It is army of Persia. Here at a forum already there was an information about Persian tanks and armored cars. The information about aircraft too can be found.
But, I can not find the information on artillery of Persia at all.
I know, that on arms were available:
75mm mountain guns Bofors mod.30 - 120
105mm guns Bofors mod.27-????
75mm AA guns Bofors mod.30/37 - 20??
75mm mountain guns Skoda mod.39-
37mm ATG Skoda
I know that in Czechoslovakia 350 guns have been bought.
There can be somebody has the information what types of guns and mortars were used in the Persian army in WW2
|This message has been edited by nuyt on Aug 26, 2006 3:33 PM|
|August 26 2006, 3:38 PM |
Re: Persian armour
|August 26 2006, 6:47 PM |
I read, certainly about Persian armour.
In the very first photo from a museum, too it seemed to me, that behind in the distance to the left a Bofors 75mm mountain gun.
In the center undoubtedly 37mm ATG Skoda mod.34 (3.7 cm ÚV vz. 34). On it a photo I could not define the third gun precisely yet. It is possible to tell precisely that it is a gun in calibre from 47 up to 65 mm, created approximately from 1890 till 1910, most likely firms Skoda or Krupp
|August 27 2006, 4:39 AM |
According to the article on the Persian Army, 1941, at orbat.comm, there were (assuming batteries of 4)
12 batteries 100mm Skoda M14 (=48 howitzers)
18 batteries 100mm Skoda M30 (=72 howitzers)
39 batteries 75mm Bofors M1934 mountain (so more than the first batch of 120 delivered)
6 1/2 batteries 75mm Scheider M1909 mountain (=26)
4 batteries Schneider 75mm M1909 mountain (=16)
2 batteries 75mm Russian Aboukoff (=8)
1 battery unknown British gun (18 pdr?) (=4)
11 1/2 batteries 75mm M1929 AA(several more guns not delivered after 1939)(towed by Marmon Herrington tractors)
also Skoda 105mm M35 towed by Praga tractors for coast defense on the Caspian (another source says "several" batteries which I interpret as at least three)
Somewhere I have figures for the number of Skoda 37mm AT delivered, but I will have to dig them out.
Hope this helps
Re: Persian Artillery
|August 27 2006, 8:38 AM |
Re: Re: Persian Artillery
|August 27 2006, 9:09 AM |
I couldn't open it either, so I contacted the webmaster, Mr. Rikhye, and he sent me the file. I don't want to send the whole thing, as it is proprietary, but if you ask him he might send it to you. I summarized what it said about the Persian Mechanized Brigade elsewhere on this site, I can't remember the exact date.
Persian Army 1941
|August 27 2006, 10:49 AM |
I had forgotten that I sent a letter to Mr. Rikhye; here is what I said about the Persian Army
I have obtained a copy of Richard A. Stewart's Sunrise at Abadan: the British and Soviet Invasion of Iran, 1941 (Praeger, 1988). It has information on the Persian Army on Aug 25, 1941 as follows:
1. Guards Infantry Div (Teheran, Baghe Shah Barracks) B/G Karim Aga Buzarjehehri
2. Guards Infantry Div (Teheran) M/G Naghdi
3. Infantry Div (Tabriz) Gen Matbooi (had 8500 men incl an engineer bn)
4. Infantry Div (Rezeiyeh) M/G Ali Moini
5. Infantry Div (Kurdistan) M/G Hassan Moggadam
6.Infantry Div (Ahvaz) cdr? (Khorramshar, Abadan, Khuzistan, Bandur-i-Shahpur) included 1000 sailors at Khorramshar under Adm. Bayandor, a brigade of the 6. Div incl 45. Infantry Rgt, elms. of 1,2,30 Infantry Regiments, 8 medium tanks, 8 light tanks, 10 armored cars
9. Infantry Div (Meshed)cdr? two infantry, two cavalry rgt (Meshed), one cavalry regiment (Bojnora), 28. Infantry Rgt (Torbat), three batteries each of 75mm and 105mm howitzers
10. Infantry Div (Gorgan) Col. Mutazedi (acting)
11. Infantry Div (Rasht) cdr? (included 36. Infantry Rgt under L/C Iranpur)
12. Infantry Div( Kermanshah) B/G Puria
15. Infantry Div (Ardabil) Gen Gaderi (included two infantry regt incl 11., had 20 light and 15 heavy trucks)
17. Infantry Div (Khvoy) cdr?
Non-divisional units included the Mechanized Brigade (Teheran)
Regiments included in the above divisions were the 1. Pahlavi, 2., 11., 17., 28., 30., 36., 39., 43., and 45.
The only cavalry regiment identified by number was the 23., at Gonbad-i-Kavuz under Col. Hanjanus
It looks like a safe bet all the infantry and cavalry regiments were numbered consecutively, 1-45 and 1-25
|August 28 2006, 6:20 AM |
I have checked my notes, and what I have is that a Persian Army infantry regiment had 6 x 81mm mortars and 6 x 37mm Skoda AT--this would require a minimum of 270 mortars and 270 AT guns to fully equip the army's forty-five infantry regiments. The actual number was bound to be less because the army was caught in the middle of an expansion program in 1939.
I also found a note that the 105mm coastal guns were to be in two groups "roving" the Caspian coastline, so this could mean two, four or more batteries.
The number of undelivered Bofors 75mm AA guns was at least twenty--that's how many ex-Persian guns the Swedish Army took over in 1939.
Re: Persian update
|August 28 2006, 11:23 AM |
You again have helped me. I hope I can sometime help you too.
Ïî ïîâîäó øâåäñêèõ ïóøåê, íà ñàéòå
"There is a 7,5 cm lvkan m/30-37, which roughly speaking is a m/30 gun mounted on a m/37 carriage. The m/30-37s had been ordered by Persia (Iran), but were confiscated by the Swedish government in late 1939."
Bofors AA + mystery object ID
|August 1 2008, 2:59 PM |
In Tehran military museum one can see these artillery pieces:
In the middle I can ID a Bofors 75mm Mountain gun without shield.
To the left a smaller calibre AA gun (possibly Naval?). What model/manufacturer is this? Has anyone data, drawings or other photos of this type?
In the background (plus a front photo with a water mine) an AA gun of larger calibre. I guess it's Bofors, but researching the various Bofors models, none resembled this version. Note that it has numerous "ribs" around the barrel. Again more information welcome. According to the sources Persia had various Bofors AA guns, with the latest 75mm M30/37 scheduled for 1941 never being delivered by Sweden.
More puzzling: what is this myterious object on the far right of the top picture? Is it an ammunition storage or some kind of launcher? Never seen anything like that.
Finally inside the museum is a model of a field gun with Limber. Looks like something from Krupp or again Bofors/Skoda? Anyone recognize it?
Re: Bofors AA + mystery object ID
|August 2 2008, 3:04 PM |
As new on this board i do not know much of guns but i know a little about ships.
"More puzzling: what is this myterious object on the far right of the top picture? Is it an ammunition storage or some kind of launcher? Never seen anything like that."
I think it is a Hedgehog (Probably an Mk 11) an ASW spigot mortar designed during WWII. The Iranians had it on a few US designed ships that they bought second hand in the 1970s. I think that the other guns besides the 75mm Bofors Mountin guns are naval guns, i think they are US made.
Re: Bofors AA + mystery object ID
|August 2 2008, 3:12 PM |
|August 2 2008, 8:13 PM |
Yes, I think you are right with the ID's. They certainly looked Naval to me, but wasn't sure whether these were pre-WW2 Bofors or later ones.
Any idea on the smaller AA gun on the left? Also US post-war?
|August 2 2008, 9:45 PM |
When i look at it it seems like a naval gun, it doesn´t look like a standard US postwar gun. It looks a bit British, the flash protector looks a bit like the British 2pdr anti aircraft gun. Persia/Iran have used e few British built warships.
re: model of field gun in display case
|July 17 2009, 2:52 AM |
The model in the display case at the museum in Iran is a Skoda based on the Austro-Hungarian 8cm (76.5mm) M.05 FG. This may just be a commercial version of that gun.
The gun model is commercial Krupp 75 mm
|September 2 2013, 9:45 PM |
It's certainly not M.5 or M.5/8, but it seems to be Turkish M1903, see http://bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Krupp%2075mm%201903.htm.
Another mystery Artillery piece
|August 27 2008, 9:25 AM |
|August 27 2008, 9:38 AM |
Looks like a mortar barrel on transport?
The second pic is probably Bofors 15cm
But what is the howitzer standing next to the Bofors 75mm mountain gun and behind the 6 pdr/57mm at gun?
Persian Bofors 15cm
|August 27 2008, 9:41 AM |
Longerange, do you know when this weapon was delivered to Persia. No publication mentions the sale, so either it was a small order or it happened after WW2...?
Bofors artillery pieces in Persian service
|July 5 2009, 7:02 PM |
The large Bofors gun's bore seems too small to be a 15cm weapon, and is probably a 105mm gun; the ordnance seems too long as well to be one of the 15cm howitzers.