Southampton's "Fortnightly waste bin scheme dumped" Daily Echo 07/10/04
by Doretta
From today's Daily Echo:
"Controversial plans to empty Southampton's rubbish bins every fortnight have finally been scrapped for good.
Labour and Conservative councillors joined forces to throw out the scheme in a crunch vote at an extraordinary meeting of the city's full council last night, despite bids by senior members of the ruling Liberal Democrats to think again......
Every home in Southampton will still have two bins with the household rubbish being emptied every week and recycling materials every fortnight......."
Full story on Thisis Southampton website reported by David Newble.
If you read the press release on letsrecycle.com you will see that this scheme was scrapped DESPITE overwhelming evidence from a MORI poll showing that there was significant support and understanding for this scheme. If you read a little closer between the lines - it is obvious that this is a political move - not an informed one.
Additionally, the Southampton Council will now be forced to return £335,000 to DEFRA from the Council Tax payments (money that I pay to the Council each year). The Council will also now be fined huge sums of money for depending too heavily on landfill. Incase you were wondering - these fines are going to be paid out of MY POCKET not the cosmic cash machine!
Having my food waste bin being emptied fortnightly is a small price to pay for the huge sums of money that I WILL be paying now my Council won't be recycling.
Wake up and smell the coffee people! How bad is it really? THIS IS YOUR WASTE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT - not anyone else's. It is your own fault for not dealing with your waste properly if it smells not the Council's!!
There may be others who feel the same way as Carl - everyone is entitled to an opinion.
I hope it wasn't just politics which led to this decision - I would prefer to think it was common sense and Councillors actually listening to large numbers of protesters.
How can anyone, however pro-environment they are, welcome a 50% reduction in general waste collection (when that still contains organic materials)? The majority of us wish to recycle - use Defra grants to purchase facilities to enable us to do so, but there is no necessity to force people into recycling by reducing collection frequency (and therefore bin capacity). People who don't wish to recycle will just contaminate their recyling bins leading to whole loads being rejected at MRFs.
If Defra do demand return of monies I would be surprised - after all the people of Southampton now have good kerbside recycling facilities so surely that money has been well-spent.
Well said! Our Council sent a questionnaire to us and omitted the most important question "Would you prefer a weekly or fortnightly collection of general domestic waste?"
It seems we have no choice at all! That is, until election time and we can then finally have our say.
is there a group of people willing to fight these crazy schemes to court??
I plan to go to the European Court for human rights since my council, Bracknell Forest, has also introduced a 14 days collection for perishable rubbish.
I find this crazy and a danger to public health.
For your information in Italy we recicle much much more then in th UK and still rubbish is collected DAILY!!!!
for me weekly colection was not enough and now they collet it only twice a month!?
Let me know if you are interested in taking this case to court, Iam happy to lead this.
Before our council started there recycling scheme we hardly recycled anything. Now I would say we recycle at least 80%. It rearly winds me up when people complain about fortnightly collections, my family of four have no problem what so ever, in fact our bin is nearly empty when collected. Stop complaining about some thing that is so easy to do and takes hardly any of your time. We need to buck up our ideas and stop filling every hole in the ground with rubbish. We simply carnt carry on the way we are, do some thing about it, stop your whining and do your bit for the environment.
What is to stop neighbours from putting some of their rubbish in others bins?
Will each householder be issued a pad, hasp and key to prevent this from happening? Will the bin men be given a master key to unlock these bins to enable the bins to be emptied?
Will extra money be provided to the council to create the position of 'rubbish coordinators' prevent such abuses?
Will extra money be provided to the police, to deal when such dispute between neighbours disputes, lead to violence?
How much extra money will be provided to remove the mounds of black bags which will inevitably be dumped in lay-bys and ditches in the countryside? This is the result in Dublin, since they introduced such a scheme.
I like many others will simply, remove the bugs by prying with a small flat-headed screwdriver.
Apparently central and local government are disucsing the use of chip & bin technology to 'monitor' household waste.
This is a small step to chrgeing for wastre removal and I am personally of the view this needs to be 'headed off at the pass' Can we identify those councils who have supplied 'chipped'bins. Identify what to look out for, how this is presented at the council meeting and how to hector the councillors who may be prepared to support what amounts to an additiona; hiden tax.
Thank you to everyone who has contacted me and joined our Campaign. I am sorry our new Forum is not able to be accessed at the moment. We are trying to rectify the problem. If you have any message to post please use this archived forum which I will visit regularly.
Recent news: a Cambridge MP has a link to weeklywaste.com on her website!
Residents from more boroughs are joining our Campaign and we hope eventually to exceed the 271,000 on-line petitioners that Jamie Oliver managed to achieve for his school meals campaign!! It may take a while but we are determined.
Often local authorities are advising their residents that alternate week waste collections are government policy. Whilst target recycling rates are decided by the government it is solely the decision of your local council whether they collect general household waste once a week or once a fortnight. The government has now capped all local authority recycling rates to 30%.
Southampton City Council has decided to collect garden waste free of charge from June of this year. This had been a chargeable service.
Thank-you for this message - I was worrying that I was missing new information when I kept getting 'This page cannot be displayed' when I tried to access the CWWC forum.
I do hope you manage to solve the problem soon.
The Precautionary Principle is basically a "failsafe" measure where activities/policies can be challenged if it is felt there is potential for human harm or harm to the environment.
"When an activity raises threats of harm to human health or the environment, precautionary measures should be taken even if some cause and effect relationships are not fully established scientifically. In this context the proponent of an activity, rather than the public, should bear the burden of proof."
Opponents of alternate weekly waste collections may wish to quote this principle to their local authorities. They are required to prove to us that the reduction in frequency of domestic waste collections poses no harm either to the public or to our environment.
Thank you for supporting our Campaign - even in these mild winter months people from all over the UK are joining us. A long hot summer is predicted - this will be a testing time for new schemes which we will monitor with interest.
Thanks to everyone from all over the UK who have taken the time to join our campaign and to write telling us of their experiences (some far from pleasant!) of fortnightly waste collection.
Our aim in 2005 is to continue to view developments of those councils operating alternate week schemes and obviously to assess responses to resident complaints. If you do not wish to post a message on this forum please e-mail us via the "contact" link to give your opinions and experiences.
Hopefully we will soon be advised by the European Parliament that they are ready to debate the Petition sent to them in January 2004.
Good luck to all those who have to wait 2 weeks or more for their waste to be collected over the Christmas period. Well done to the councils that revert to a weekly collection over this festive time. They, perhaps, are more in touch with residents' needs.
Best wishes for a Happy New Year from all at CWWC.
I am very glad to hear that this Petition is still ongoing.
As I had not heard about it lately I was afraid it might have been rejected.
Good luck with it.
I am fighting in Woking and trying to stop the 'pilot' twin bin scheme going borough wide.
I also want to take up the legality of councils refusing to collect extra waste put out beside the bin when it is full, in contravention of their statutory duty to collect it.
Do you know how frequently refuse is collected in European countries, whose recycling is much higher than ours? It would be useful to know if it is more frequent than fortnightly when fighting against the Council.
Diana - well done for fighting Woking's scheme. You have raised some important points which I may be able to help you with.
First, on the subject of side waste. It seems rather strange that many councils are now refusing to collect any waste that isn't contained within the bin. It is claimed it is a health and safety measure and protects the binmen from injury. In Eastleigh side waste IS collected. I firmly believe that if it was not this scheme would never have been in operation for so long. Even in our borough parents are getting children to jump up and down on the waste to compress it - considering the amount of bacteria present in up to two week's waste I'm sure there are health implications from this action. In summary, some councils state to collect side waste is a health and safety risk to their workers, whilst others, such as Eastleigh continue to collect side waste.
In parts of Europe, France and Spain for example, general waste is collected as frequently as daily in some areas and twice a week in others. I have not been able to ascertain frequency in specific areas but I am still endeavouring to do so. In some Scandinavian countries they do collect fortnightly but temperatures are generally lower than those experienced in the UK. Even there, as is shown by the study listed on the "press coverage" page of this website, there are concerns that the build up of endotoxins and release of harmful bioaerosols poses a risk to the health of refuse collectors.
It is true that the UK has lagged behind the rest of Europe where recycling is concerned, mostly because we have never been given the facilities to recycle our waste. Kerbside recycling is now becoming the norm and many councils still manage to collect general waste on a weekly basis (75%) whilst achieving high recycling rates - the Isle of Wight has achieved 35% and beats most of those on alternate weekly collections as shown in the latest league tables!!
Good luck with your efforts and please contact me privately via the "contact us" link if you need any further information.
Barnet extends risk of £1000 fine for not recycling
by Doretta
The London Borough of Barnet has decided to extend the threat of a £1000 fine to those who do not recycle, from a trial area to the entire borough. Everyone is now liable to receive this fine - the introduction is apparently made possible by powers given to councils in the Environment Protection Act 1990.
Difficult as this may be for the LA to administer, I'm sure "serial offenders" who do not recycle will be targeted and made examples of. The Daily Mail article headlined "The dustbin police" was linked to another "I got a £50 ticket for putting the rubbish out" where a lady from Reddish, Stockport received a fine for putting her black bags of rubbish out for collection three days early simply because she didn't want to miss her collection. I wonder if the same fine would be levied if people are going away on holiday and placed their bags for collection early - most probably. Apparently it is classed as fly-tipping!
The writing is clearly on the wall - if these "heavy-handed" approaches work they will become the norm.
Re: Barnet extends risk of £1000 fine for not recycling
by Lee Smart
I've heard it all now! What else do we have to look forward to - fines for breathing I expect.
As for the lady fined £50, if they still had backdoor collections there would be no rubbish bags on the streets to be fined for. Old tale of reduced service for more money.
Re: Barnet extends risk of £1000 fine for not recycling
by Doretta
Lee, we are very unlikely to see a return to back door collections but it was probably the best and safest way to collect waste - for the refuse collectors as well as the public. We perhaps didn't appreciate what we had until it was gone.
Thanks to Simon Mayo and Ross Hawkins for inviting me to appear on the Simon Mayo show on Wednesday 27th October.
We were discussing recycling and the growing trend for local authorities in the UK to introduce alternate weekly collections. Hopefully I put our points across that whilst SUPPORTING RECYCLING we believe a weekly collection of general perishable waste is essential, especially in the summer months. Simon Mayo and Ross Hawkins were joined in the London studio by the Editor of Letsrecycle.com. Councillor Jill Baston (Executive Member for Environment and Transport, Southampton City Council) and I were in the Southampton studio.
Callers to the show were divided in their support of these schemes. If John from Leicestershire finds this website I would like to thank him for his views which he put forward with such passion "10 or 11 wheelie bins standing together awaiting collection and they stunk to high heaven"!! He is one of the many residents making extra trips to the Civic Amenity Sites to dispose of their perishable waste.
This begs the question "How environmentally-friendly are these schemes if hundreds or thousands of people are making frequent trips to the "tip" in their cars, obviously causing more air pollution by doing so, because the refuse collection scheme in their area is inadequate?"
Many thanks to all our supporters - again, your comments are invaluable.
Sorry I missed the show. Why do councils insist these schemes are successful? In our neck of the woods fortnightly collections have caused us nothing but problems - I haven't spoken to one person who likes them.
We have all made complaints to our council and they just don't care. All it means is that we resent every penny we pay in council tax. Roll on the next local elections and we will make sure they get the message.
Phil, the councils deem alternate weekly schemes a success because it is the cheapest and quickest way to increase recycling rates.
They are aware that if they can weather the initial storm of protest, people will after a while stop complaining - not because they suddenly realise the schemes are wonderful but because they feel their concerns fall on deaf ears. This is the feedback I have had from all over the UK.
A good question to ask your council is "What percentage of contamination do you have in the recycling bins?" My Council has been honest enough to admit that figure lies between 10% and 14%. It is not always accidental and, in fact, at least two councils have had to abandon fortnightly collections because the rate of contamination with general waste is so high. I would not recommend this action as whole lorry loads of recyclable materials often have to be landfilled, but I do understand why people resort to doing so.
Are you aware of how much of your Council tax is actually spent on waste collection? and how much waste collection actually costs?
I can tell you it is probably costing you about 30-50pence per week. Now why is everyone always moaning about value for money? Even if you got it collected once a month it's value for money at that price.
I am paying for schools and libraries that i don't use - what am i supposed to do about that??
I work in this industry and i honestly think that people are blowing it out of all proportion. I have not seen a single maggot where i live - I am quite happy with alternate weekly collections. Don't buy stuff in plastic packaging if it is such a problem!
Jane, it is no surprise to me that you work in the industry as your comments echo responses given to residents when they express concern. "Why all the fuss?" "Rubbish smells" and "if you have had maggots in your bin you are not managing your waste properly". We have heard them all.
You do not say how long your Council has operated an alternate weekly collection. If it is in its infancy your residents may not yet have experienced the unpleasant effects. Everyone has different levels of tolerance. Many of us could not do the refuse collectors' work. The smells and maggots are, in some cases, making people physically sick. I would be more than happy to send you copies of press articles and letters from around the country confirming this.
Every council is judged on the standard of services they provide. Council tax has to reflect that. One Council has already changed political leadership, they claim, due solely to the promise of bringing back weekly general waste collections. Let us hope more follow!
i have seen the articles - like i said i work in the industry. The problem is - we can't contiue to use landfills at the rate we are, no-one wants incineration, recycling is limited (because people don't want to be forced to do it) so what do you suggest is done to minimise waste. YOU buy the products, YOU create YOUR waste
We also pay council tax for an efficient and timely service. We expect our local authorities to put public health at the top of their priority list not as a poor second to recycling rates, however important they are.
Waste minimisation has to be an aim but how can this be reconciled with reducing general waste collections by a half and expecting householders to make additional trips to the civic amenity sites to dispose of any excess? Will the waste disposed of in this manner be added to the LA total wastes arising or to the County Council's Waste disposal figures? I am interested to know how these figures are calculated.
Facilities for kerbside recycling differ across the UK - some councils operating alternate week collections make provision for kitchen waste to be collected on a weekly basis. This still does not solve the "nappy" problem or the other non-infectious clinical waste items that fester in the bins over a two week period.
the figures are calculated according to BVPI definitions which you can find on the DEFRA website.
Recycling rate = the percentage of household waste recycled and composted.
household waste includes waste collected from houses, civic amenity sites, street sweepings etc.
so yes the waste taken to the tip is included and recycling rates are still increased by alternate weekly collections
Thank you, Jane. I still doubt that alternate weekly collections increase recycling rates once contaminated loads are taken into account - it is a fact that some people just fill up the next bin to be emptied.
The London Borough of Sutton said they were not out of pocket at all when they returned to a weekly collection of general waste at the end of 2001 because the quality of their recyclables was so much higher.
It seems a bit funny to me in the west country.I live in South Gloucestershire, just outside Bristol. South Glous employ Sita as the contractor for refuse collections as does Bristol council.
S.G council had the recommendation for a twin bin fortnightly collection system. Bristol have announced they are considering a twin bin system.S.G.C WILL NOT TAKE ANY FOOD WASTE IN THE RECYCLING BIN. BRISTOL WILL. S.G.C. WILL ONLY EMPTY THE RECYCLING BINS ON A TWO WEEK CYCLE.BRISTOL WILL EMPTY THE RECYCLING BINS ON A WEEKLY CYCLE. ANY NON RECYCLEABLES WILL BE IN A SEPARATE BIN AND THIS WILL BE EMPTIED ON A TWO WEEK CYCLE.TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RECOMENDATIONS. ARE THEY BOTH MADE BY THE SAME ADVISORS?
FUNNY IF THEY ARE.
THINK ABOUT IT!
I think you will find that sita are refuse and recycling collection contractors -NOT advisors.
Collection contractors generally respond to a tender written by the Council - Its like the same decorator painting 2 different houses 2 different colours - responding to customer demands. not really a valid argument against fortnightly collection by any stretch of the imagination.
Where from
The recyclable items will generally have been bought from a supermarket. So, if not collected at kerbside, next time you go shopping take the recyclable items in your boot aand dispose of them. Almost all supermarkets have recycling bins
Food
If you have to throw food away, put it in a plastic bag so flies, and they produce the maggots, cant get at it. Rinse out tins that contained beans, dog food, etc.
Rats
If you shut the dustbin lid they can't get in
Money
Council Tax only pays for 20% of the Councils spending. Almost all the rest comes from national taxation, and is allocated to Councils by Whitehall.
Landfill tax is going up every year. Dependent on where the landfill is, and other factors, it costs £50 approx to dump one family's rubbish each year.
New holes in the ground for landfill are becoming very scarce!
Please tell me what you are filling the bin with, and why NONE of it can be recycled. If you refuse to recycle anything, is it because you just cannot be bothered, do not believe that landfill sites are almost full, that incineration is not wanted, and that special hand sorting facilities would cost a fortune
At some time you, or if you are lucky, your children, will have to reduce the amount of rubbish thrown away
First, as is mentioned already on this website, we strongly support recycling.
It is well-publicised that waste must be diverted away from landfill although this is a European directive hence the large fines that will probably be imposed on our government and that may be payable by local authorities (and ultimately us as council tax payers).
To address your issues:
Where from:
Supermarket recycling bins are very well-used, especially for glass which not all LAs collect from the kerbside. As you rightly say they can be utilised for items other than those included on kerbside collections. Packaging is a real issue - much of this is plastic film and rarely can this be recycled. In fact many people question why there is no end market for all plastics.
Food:
Maggot infestations occur even when food is wrapped. Flies may contaminate/lay eggs on waste food in the kitchen or kitchen bin or, of course, when the wheelie bin lid is lifted. Waste in the bins for up to 14 days provides the ideal conditions for the eggs to hatch and mature. The mature maggots then have to leave the bin to pupate which is why they are often seen on the inside of lids or crawling along garden paths (as happened in Bristol this year).
Rats:
Our council continues to collect side waste in bags. Combined with the promotion of home composting where rats have been found nesting in bins, householders believe these methods attract rats and mice to our properties. The rodent sense of smell is far superior to our own.
Value for money as far as council tax is concerned is a very hot topic. The extra cost of providing a weekly general waste collection is often exaggerated but obviously depends on the type of waste collection contract in operation. 75% of councils continue to collect waste on a weekly basis.
If people have extra waste to dispose of they must use their cars to take this waste to the civic amenity site. There may also be an increase in fly-tipping and/or contamination of the recycling bins.
Our main concern is the length of time between collections. 14 days is too long, certainly in summer months, for putrescible waste to remain uncollected.
I understand that the Councils all over the country are changing to fortnightly refuse collections.
I shall not at all happy with this if this comes to my area in the middlesex.
We pay Coucnil Tax towards all these services and Council Tax has been raised every year which we pensioners can hardly afford to pay. Why do Councils have to reduce their work and workforce to save money when this money comes out of our pockets. This does not justify the huge amount we pay towards all the services provided by the Councils. Conditions of roads are appalling, street lights not lit at night. We have to spend money on buying torches to walk in the street at night.
Can somebody let us know where does our Council Tax go?
Thank you, Usha, for raising some important questions.
75% of all councils still manage to collect general waste on a weekly basis. Many have some form of kerbside recycling in addition to the regular weekly collection.
As far as I know those that have introduced alternate week collections do not have a noticeably lower rate of council tax than those who collect weekly. I'm sure someone will correct me if this not the case! Income is also generated from the recycling materials, of course.
The main aim of only collecting general waste once a fortnight is to force people into reycling some of their waste. They are, in effect halving the capacity of your rubbish bin in the belief that up to 50% of the material can be recycled - this is rather optimistic and in practice almost impossible.
Many councils will not collect side waste in black bags so householders are forced to dispose of excess waste by either taking it to the tip themselves, getting their children to jump up and down on the bin contents to compress the waste (!) or burning it in their gardens - you may agree that these methods are not environmentally-friendly and may cause health problems but councils are aware that they are being used. It is up to them to judge whether they consider them acceptable or up to us to tell them it is not!
I sincerely hope your local authority does not follow this growing trend. If this website helps to assure the general public that they are not alone in their concerns it has served its purpose - even if they are told that these schemes are successful in other parts of the country.
It has been brought to my attention that Rossendale Borough Council is currently operating an alternate weekly refuse collection scheme.
The inclusion of this local authority on the list of those who have reverted to weekly waste collection is therefore incorrect and I apologise for any embarrassment caused. The list will be amended as soon as possible.
Southampton's twin-bin scheme may be scrapped (Daily Echo 23/09/04)
by Doretta
Reported today that Southampton City Council has scrapped its' controversial fortnightly rubbish scheme - at least for the time being.
Labour and Conservative councillors joined forces to restore weekly bin rounds across the whole city - in addition to a fortnightly collection of recyclable waste.
Another meeting will be held in 10 days time to give the ruling Liberal Democrats one last chance to try and persuade their opponents to reconsider. If councillors vote again to bring back weekly rubbish collections, the decision will be final.
For the full story go to www.dailyecho.co.uk
"Twin bin scheme is allowed to fester" by David Newble
Lets Recycle.com website announces today that, following a change in council leadership, plans for alternate week collection due to have commenced in June are to be scrapped. Councillor Len Gregory,Birmingham City Council, is quoted " The concept of someone having to keep their waste for two weeks at a time fills me with horror."
For full story see Lets Recycle.com
Thanks for your comments and e-mails - early days for this website but I hope you find it informative.
The headline was not mine but was reported as such by letsrecycle.com.
There were firm plans to introduce alternate week collections in Birmingham. Those plans have been cancelled (axed?) in which case the reporting is correct.
Congratulations! I am so glad that you have started this website so that people from different council areas can unite.
Woking's M.P.wrote to the Minister asking for weekly collections to be made a statutory obligation.
Eliott Morley merely replied that they had no plans to do so and ignored the request for future action.
Thanks, Diana2 for your kind comments. I have spent almost three years researching (and fighting!) alternate week schemes and, knowing others feel the same, wished to share the information I have gathered.
I know of other MPs who have raised questions in the Commons - Archie Norman MP and Mike Hall MP. They wouldn't have done so unless they were aware that their constituents were unhappy with the situation.
It really helps our Campaign to receive information from all parts of the UK where these schemes have been introduced.
Two reports of people setting up additional refuse collections in areas where fortnightly collections have been introduced have been featured in local and national press.
In Tamworth "an entrepeneur" has set up his own service and as he holds a waste licence, little can be done to prevent him from doing so.
Also, in Telford, a resident has purchased a used refuse vehicle and she will be collecting household waste from homes in the area where fortnightly collections are inadequate. The full story is printed in the Bristol Evening Post but was covered by the Mail on Sunday and on the BBC TV News this morning.
Charging for domestic waste collection has already been debated at length by the government and it seems likely that powers will be given to local authorities to make variable charging possible. I am very concerned that the results of any such move will lead to indiscriminate fly-tipping because people will not accept this additional cost when they believe it should be included in the high levels of council tax they are currently paying.
Ireland has already introduced such charges and some people have been jailed for refusing to pay their "bin tax"!
Thank you to all our new supporters - again, from all over the UK.
Recent reports especially from the Bristol Evening Post continue to highlight the seasonal problems associated with fortnightly collections. One road was crawling with maggots and residents also reported rat sightings around unemptied bins. The newspaper has given excellent coverage and is challenging the local authority to think again and to restore weekly waste collection.
Some councils are issuing guidelines to residents on how to deal with unpleasant bin odours, maggots and flies. There is no solution other than to collect general waste more frequently.
Revenue generated from the sale of recyclable goods can help to offset costs of retaining weekly collection. Tales of huge increases in council tax are, I believe, exaggerated.