From the Toronto Star:

Couple charged after wild moose chase

Oct 05, 2007 04:30 AM
Dale Brazao
staff reporter

A man and a woman suspected of poaching a moose in Algonquin Park face firearm and drug charges after an altercation with park and provincial inspectors.

On Saturday night an unarmed park warden came upon a couple skinning a moose that had been shot in the provincial park near Radiant Lake, a spokesperson said.

"Based on his contact with these people he decided to withdraw. They were very unfriendly towards him and threatening," park superintendent John Winters said.

The couple drove away, followed by a conservation officer and a park warden. The man surrendered after the car was stopped on Hogan Lake Rd., OPP spokesperson Lori Lobinowich said yesterday.

The woman, who had fled in the car, was apprehended after the OPP placed a spike belt across the road to stop the vehicle.

Members of the Algonquin nations can hunt moose in the park on a limited basis, but not until the first Tuesday after Thanksgiving, Winters said. The two accused were not eligible for the annual hunt.

Norman Chabot, 51, of Manawaki, Que., is charged with unauthorized possession of a firearm, impaired driving, drug possession and uttering death threats.

Emily Meness, 24, also of Manawaki, is charged with careless use of a firearm, drug possession, dangerous driving and flight from police.

To me this underscores the point that roads = access. I know that the Radiant Lake road is a primary road, and won't become unused for a very long time (if ever,) but I don't believe tertiary roads and any other roads that are abandoned are properly decommissioned. On top of that, simply putting up a gate at the border between the public road system and the logging road system doesn't seem sufficient to prevent unauthorized access (Especially when they all use the same key!) It's not like this is the first time something like this has happened, nor will it be the last... Anyhow, that's just my opinion.

Jeff

Interesting story... and this type of thing happens all too often but never makes the newspapers

Its sad to read in the media how certain ethnic groups are being assaulted because people think that they are overfishing. (Asians have been the target for violence in the Simcoe county area)

I know this is not related to the Article posted above, but I just wanted to say that if poaching exists , it is not limited to any one group.

The idiots that are commiting these assaults should be put in jail. The government needs to hire more CO's , the lack of enforcement is turning into a very ugly situation.

just my 2 cents

You're absolutely right Julian. The CO's/Wardens are essentially the police for this huge area, and there are so few that it's almost pointless to report infractions to park staff (In many cases they don't even have the resources to go after reported infractions.)

Jeff

It is sad to say that this type of behavior is more and more evident in today's society. Lots of people, saddly lots of young adults, have no respect for others and that's because we are now raising a whole generation of selfish, greedy and unconcerned idiots. Where are our old values gone to??

I agree that it is more evident, and there are a whole slew of reasons.

I wouldn't go as far as to generalize it as being young adults being the problem. I find that "us" young adults are the ones that are left to clean up the mess, mistakes etc that the generation before us has made. As a young adult and moreover a parent of a new generation I would hardly think that I am raising selfish, greedy and unconcerned idiots. In fact I am working twice as hard as my parents did to help my children become the opposite.

Be careful with your generalizations dano.

I agree that old values are hard to come by, but that's the kind of society we live in so instead of dwelling on the past it's important to strive for a better future by learning from it.

Poaching has existed since people coexisted in different territories.

You are right CLS, I should not say all young adults are idiots, but there are still too many. When I meant that "we" are bringing up idiots, I mean the powerful medias, mostly TV, telling our kids how to behave, what to buy and also not to take anything from the "autorities"...including parents. I have 3 beautiful kids and just hope that my "old style" values will be keeped.

Poaching (and rude behaviour) has been around a lot longer than we have. I know it's popular to think that people today are not as polite as they were back in the day, but I don't personally believe that. One of the poachers was listed as 54, so he can't blame video games, rap music, or whatever else is popular to point fingers at. Personally, I blame Elvis.

Getting back to the poaching, Algonquin Park is such a huge area - that's a lot of why we go there - and I'm sure a lot of poaching takes place that doesn't get caught. I don't envy the park warden that had to confront those two. They sound like a pair of winners.

I know you were speaking in broad terms dano, it just gets me that we are targeted so much for todays problems. We are working hard to fix them, some of us.

We unplugged our cable a while ago and it had made a huge difference. The media/television is a great desensitizing tool. It has it's advantages but they are greatly outweighed by the shit that is on there constantly. I can find great resources online for teaching my eldest son, a benefit that wasn't available to me when I was a kid.

There is nothing wrong with TEACHING the old ways. You just have to mix it up.

Throw the book at them. Especially the dumber one who tried to run from the cops.

Thankfully a lot of of old values are not practiced, values like only marrying your own kind or owning your labor force. Old values/new values, the age of the value is irrelevant it's the quality that's important.

CLS I have a question, why did you have to cut the cable to limit your kids viewing habits? I'm curious mainly because I notice that my wife and I seem to be the only parents we know that manage our children's television without cutting it out all together. Most parents we know allow their kids to watch alot of TV while a minority of parents don't allow any TV. (by alot I mean 1+ hour a day which I consider to be excessive)

If only the logging roads weren't there.... we wouldn't have these problems.

We cut the cable as opposed to limiting it so there were no arguments, and to teach them by example, we don't watch it either. I also didn't need my kids to accidentally view something they shouldn't, even at 10 am in the morning.

We are happy with our decision, it has worked better than to be expected and we are spending so much more time doing other quality things as a family.

Hey Pottie Mouth ...

I cut my own cable last week too ... I was getting way too desensitized
In all honesty though, I really did ... now I just have the internet to pervert my brain and turn it to ... what was I talking about ...

weird how this thread went from poaching to enforcement to limiting your television viewing!
I can see the relationship in all these things though.

I'm starting to get the feeling that this kind of thing(poaching), is going on all the time, and that only a handful are actually caught.
It's actually the warden and the conservation officer I was concenred about. Confronting an armed poacher, who had obviously(Obvious to the warden) had been drinking, with the drugs mixed in...not too sure what the bad guy was capable of. Pretty creepy situation.

It's ironic to think though of the recreational pressures that Algonquin Park faces, that has been mentioned over the years. There's also logging pressures as well.
Now to think there is an ongoing problem of poaching. It's too bad really. Not something I like to hear about.

I agree with some of the other folks here....throw the book at them. Why?
Sheesh, in today's society, it seems to me that the lines of crime and punishment are quite thickly blurred.
Nowadays, court drags on and on and on, for years...to the point where it kinda becomes pointless. Most people are let out on bail to possibly re-offend again.
It's almost like a reward. These people were(by the news story), were in the park illegally(I don't think they were going to buy a camp permit to do a damn illegal act), hunting out of season, armed, charged with weapon offenses, alcohol, and drugs involved. Yeah...throw the book at them. The Park doesn't need such folk around, and to think that the warden and CO's lives were in danger. Very very scary.


Markus
Etobicoke, Onterry-airy-airy-Ohhh!

Mmmmmmm.... poached moose

Sorry for highjacking the thread, my bad.

Cls I hope my question didn't come off poorly, no jugment was intended just query. I can certainly understand not wanting the arguments as well as the overall benefit of less tv for all.

Markus I too agree that the book should be thrown at them. One of the things I like about algonquin is knowing that I can go camping in the fall comfortably with the need to wear safety orange. Jerks like that make the world more dangerous for the rest of us.

Hi Zeb,

During hunting season in The Park, I canoe/camp nowhere near hunting zones.
Do you think I should still wear an orange cap/jacket?
For example, next week, a bunch of us will be at Owl Lake. Normally I wouldn't even consider wearing such clothing, as I'll be many many kilometers away from any hunting grounds. However your comment, has got me wondering. Unless of course you camp in or near hunting zones. Then I understand completely.
TIA!

Markus
Etobicoke, Onterry-airy-airy-Ohhh!

Sorry that should have been "without the need for orange safety clothing".

I agree I stay away from hunting zones for that same reason. Personally I subcribe to the LNT concept of your colouring blending with the environment, it's better to feel like your the only one on the lake even if your not.

Zeb no offense was taken whatsoever.

Sorry to sidetrack the thread, I was just sticking up for the "young" folks lol.

I think everyone here who knows me knows what I would do to a poacher if given the opportunity. I would not call 911.

oh..okay dokey!


Markus
Etobicoke, Onterry-airy-airy-Ohhh!

Updating this 2-year-old news item:

http://www.ocoa.ca/Pages_MNRnews/Documents2009/2009-07-07PembrokeAlgonquinpoachers.htm

Jail Time and Fines for Pair Caught Illegally Hunting Moose in Algonquin Park

Two Quebec residents have been sentenced to jail time, given a driving suspension, probation and $8,000 in fines related to an incident that occurred in Algonquin Provincial Park.

Emily Rose Meness and Norman Chabot, of Maniwaki, Quebec, were met by provincial park wardens on September 29, 2007, in the Radiant Lake area of Algonquin Provincial Park as they were loading an adult bull moose they had just shot into the back of a pickup truck. When confronted, they threatened the park wardens. The park wardens left and called for the assistance of Ministry of Natural Resources conservation officers, who called in the OPP.

Chabot and Meness finished loading the moose into the truck and fled the scene before the conservation officers could arrive. The pair then drove into the Hogan Lake area of Algonquin Provincial Park on a logging road in attempt to elude the responding officers.

A conservation officer with the assistance of a park warden found them and took the driver, Chabot, into custody. Meness, however, took control of the truck and fled, almost striking the officers and Chabot with the vehicle.

Another conservation officer and an OPP officer set up a road block using their enforcement vehicles and deployed a spike belt on the only road out of the area. Meness approached at a high rate of speed and sped past the cruisers, striking the spike belt. The officers pursued and came across the disabled vehicle about one kilometre further down the road. Meness initially refused to surrender but was taken into custody after lengthy negotiations.

Chabot pleaded guilty to criminal charges of possession of a controlled substance, breach of probation, uttering a threat to cause death or bodily harm and unauthorized possession of a firearm. Justice of the Peace G. Radley Walters heard the case in the Ontario Court of Justice, Pembroke, on September 16, 2008, and convicted Chabot on all charges. Chabot was sentenced to 90 days in jail, given a one-year probation and a firearms prohibition with conditions.

Meness pleaded guilty to a criminal charge of unauthorized possession of a firearm and at trial was convicted of dangerous operation of a motor vehicle. Justice of the Peace Robert G. Selkirk heard the case in the Ontario Court of Justice, Pembroke, on May 5, 2009, and sentenced Meness to 30 days in jail. She was also given a one-year driving suspension.

Chabot also pleaded guilty to provincial charges of unlawfully hunting wildlife in a provincial park, possessing illegally killed wildlife and failing to stop for a conservation officer. Meness pleaded not guilty to the same charges. Justice of the Peace Nancy Mitchell heard the cases on June 22, 2009, in the Ontario Court of Justice, Pembroke. Chabot and Meness were convicted on all counts and fined a total of $8,000. Their rifles and the moose were forfeited to the Crown.

http://www.ocoa.ca/Pages_MNRnews/index.htm



Barbara

To me this underscores the point that roads = access. I know that the Radiant Lake road is a primary road, and won't become unused for a very long time (if ever,) but I don't believe tertiary roads and any other roads that are abandoned are properly decommissioned. On top of that, simply putting up a gate at the border between the public road system and the logging road system doesn't seem sufficient to prevent unauthorized access (Especially when they all use the same key!) It's not like this is the first time something like this has happened, nor will it be the last... Anyhow, that's just my opinion.

Jeff


Agree.

In my humble opinion, the severity of the crime far outweighs the paltry sentences given these two idiots. The bloody fool almost ran over officers and was given only 30 days???? The sad truth is that until the courts get serious, this will continue happening.

Michael

The other side of it may be that without bagging a moose the couple might have had to eat their belts. We're only hearing the Police side of things.

Considering they were charged with drug offences and impaired driving, I doubt they lacked the money to buy groceries!

Just my two cents....but I think they should let the couple go free in Algonquin.....and then supply the moose with guns!

Canoeguy
http://www.canoeguy.ca/
http://www.canoeguy.ca/index.php?pr=Portfolio
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/wwwcanoeguyca/45072670395
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Nature-Prints-Calendars/39602765177

I don't think it's plausible that they were so hungry that they needed to poach moose in Algonquin.

It's a bit of a drive from Maniwaki...and I'm sure there are moose much closer to home.




Barbara

What's so great about old school values? I rememeber when it was perfectly acceptable to toss litter from a moving vehicle while not wearing a seatbelt!

Wasn't every campsite in Algonquin essentially a pile of rusty cans not so long ago?

The inflammatory comment above was mine.

Good thing the didn't do the same thing in Ontario now....

They would have also been charged with street racing and stunt driving..

Seriously, though the park officials were in serious danger.

Think of it this way..... a poacher is caught in the middle of the park, hours away from backup. Park Warden/s approach armed hunters armed hunters decide to do the unthinkable. It may be years before said Park Warden/s are found. Truly a dangerous job....

I think they got off very easy myself...

We can complain that there is little law enforcement in the bush, but we should also condsider the Size of the juristiction....

The amount of CO's needed to effectivly patrol Ontario's wilderness, let alone the parks is not realistic....the Sad truth of the matter is we will never have enough enforcement to cover our resources.

But there is one thing we could be doing to prevent Poaching that costs less and is more realisitc....hold Criminals accountable to the full extent of the law, and make the penalties so severe as to make people think twice.

A simple Driving suspension, probation and $8,000 in fines is almost worth the gamble IMO
whats 900lb of beef going for in the stores these days geeze?....
2 moose and you almost break even, but get 3 and your ahead LOL!

Screw the fines...give 'em 15 years and see if that moose was worth it.