Hey all, just found out our lake is washed out for the opener we're gonna try provoking, anybody with any info on sites and fishing would be helpfull as we've never been here

What lake?????

There is no interior canoe camping on Provoking lake, unless you are backpacking in. Nice lake though...watch out for ice on the trail up there, especially where it is rocky..can be slippery.

I wonder if you portaged your canoe up there, and canoed around and decided to camp, at one of the back-packing sites...are you breaking a regulation. I assume so, but I'm just wondering.

Markus
Etobicoke, Onterry-airy-airy-Ohhh!

We went to Provoking a few years back, early fall. The portage in was a long slow up and a long slow down, not too serious. Provoking is a bass lake, but I think it is also one of the southern Algonquin lakes that was affected by acid rain back in the early 90's. We did catch some bass, but they were all quite small. We also noticed the weed growth was somewhat stunted from what you would expect at that time of year. Unlikey you would get into any trout and bass does not open until the end of June.

Check some of the other forums and look for some of the stocked trout lakes off the corridor if you are determined to come in on the opener or shottly thereafter. Plus, as Markus indicates in the previous post, the sites on Provoking are for backpackers only.

Coach

thanks guys, leaving this morning to check it out (should be a soggy couple of days) we have been backpacking the western uplands for the last number of years and seems like this year its not going to happen, so we'll check out the highland trail instead. Funny that provoking is bass lake since early 90's yet they still continue to stock large amounts of splake their every few years. anyway we'll check it out anyway fish or no fish it's still algonquin

Provoking can be quite good for splake at times..rocky points to the north as well as south eastern part of lake, go threw a channel. look for beaver house. Although the portage is dicouraging.

Where there are only backpacking sites on a lake, I think it would be of the utmost importance to keep yourself and your canoe from using one of them.

You know how people get aggravated when they find all the sites taken on a canoe-in lake? Can you imagine the frustration and annoyance level being a backpacker finding a canoeist has decided to park their butt on a "backpacking campsite only" lake?

I've seen canoeists squatting on backpacking campsites. It's not right or fair.


Barbara

Barbara, I dont understand. If I were to chose back pack in a canoe using the hiking trail, why could I not camp at the sites. The sites are reserved just like any other, canoe or not.
Just wondering
Mike

Backpacking with a canoe? Now I don't understand. Why would anyone carry a canoe over the backpacking trails?

I guess I see them as two completely separate activities. Backpacking means to me you use only your feet for transportation. No canoe involved at any point. Carrying a canoe means you're portaging.

And I guess that I think of backpackers as being of a much "lighter" setup out of necessity. The honking big tents I've seen on designated backpacking campsites would be a beast to carry on your back.

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I understood things.


Barbara

Right on Barbara, better not be any canoers squatting where i'm backpacking this September. There's enough lakes for canoers to get to, leave the backpacking sites to the others.

I would carry a canoe, so i could fish the lakes that are only accessed by back pack trails. I dont like fishing from shore. Right or wrong, I see no problem with it.

Pretty self-centered. Unfortunate that you see nothing wrong with it because you don't like fishing from shore.
How many lakes are in the park and elsewhere?

Instead of portaging a canoe into this lake perhaps you could go the float-tub route. Nice and easy to pack in, just kind of a blow and go deal .. without the hastles of portaging.

Just a thought ... but thats what I would do.

D-monster

I am not getting into a name calling bout. I was simply asking for a NON abrasive answer to why no canoes on back pack trails? For example, I see I can reach Maggie Lake via an 1125 meter portage on an official canoe route, or I can "Back Pack" to the sites. Now just like any other lake in the park I can leagally and morally "bushwack" down to Maple leaf lake and fish it, or I can choose to "Portage" using the "backpack" trail. I am simply asking whats the difference.

I have thought of that and it seems easier to portage a canoe. I am very good friends with a park warden, and on his "off time" on several ocassions has camped and portaged a canoe to fish on back pack lakes. So if its ok by him, its ok by me. Sorry Joan. I am there to enjoy the park and all it has to offer. Camping,portaging,hiking and fishing and any combination of them.

Bah, don't get your knickers in a knot for heaven's sakes.
Fine, do what you will, whatever man.

I think it boils down to definitions. Portaging a boat is what is done between two navigable waterways when the boat is transported. Backpacking a boat into a lake would be from a land based mode of transportation, such as a car, to a destination lake.

Some people choose to bring a frisbee others choose to carry a canoe but I think it's the pot calling the kettle black when you refer to it as "self-centered". It's your position, Joan, that is exclusive and the alternative that is inclusive and, I believe but have not studied the letter of the law, legal. Carry whatever you'd like (besides bottles and cans) but I'd prefer the lighter blowup version as well!

When it comes to Algonquin, I don't see it that way.

The backpacking routes are defined, just as the canoe routes are. I don't know that people hiking along to a "backpacking campsite only" lake like Provoking expect to see canoeists using what has been set aside for them.

I see it the same as motor-restricted lakes, I guess. The Park has defined certain uses for certain areas.

I know I've seen some sweet campsites that looked inviting. But I would never camp at them, because they are identified as "backpacking campsites". They didn't have that overused look to them that the canoe-in sites usually have.

Maybe this is a question for the good folks in charge at the Park.



Barbara

I'm with PA Paddler on this one. As long as he has a permit for a backpacking site and he is willing to carry his non-banned stuff there on his back then good for him. I hope he enjoys his fishing.

Mike.

Let's see, no one has suggested that asking the park might be a good idea so I'll suggest that it is a good idea to ask the park.

Probably someone has thought about doing this in the past, maybe not the climb to Provoking, but somewhere in the park's history it has been thought about.

I would not do it, possibly not even to a lake at the same elevation as the trailhead, but why not? People take many "items" with them to make enjoying a campsite that much sweeter.

If the park agrees to grant someone a permit and has no rules against hauling canoes, why the uproar? Now, if someone did it and there is a rule against such an item carried on the shoulders, then treat them the same as any others who violate park regs.

Hauling a canoe to a site is not the same thing as paddling a canoe to a backpack site and if a ranger checked permits, they would not have the correct permit and risk fines and confiscation of their equipment.

-Jester

I know enough to know I don't know enough

Jester “Maybe this is a question for the good folks in charge at the Park” (See Barb’s post) -Ever been on a bike trail with a canoe coming towards you, just a look from a backpacker’s perspective.

I have received a response from the park and I paste the whole email below. As shown in the answer, it is permissible to carry a canoe to Provoking Lake or other backpack only campsite if one has the backpack permit for such a trip.

-Jester

I know enough to ask the park


From: Fuller, Reina (MNR) [reina.fuller@ontario.ca]
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:10 AM
To: Pile, Dave
Subject: RE: Question

Hi Jester!

Carrying a canoe to a backpacking site is unusual but if you would like to there is no rule saying that you cannot. Depending on the trail that you are hiking on you may find it quite rugged making it very hard to portage.

Enjoy your hiking portaging trip to Algonquin.

Reina

Algonquin Park Information

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:44 PM
To: info@algonquinpark.on.ca
Subject: Question

Perhaps this is an unusual question but this came up in a discussion at Barry Bridgeford's Algonquin Adventures' forum.

Is it permissable for someone who is backpacking to actually portage a canoe with them to a lake that has backpack only campsites? This would be different from someone paddling through a lake such as Harness or Head that has both backpack only and canoe only sites.

Rats!

Definitive answers like that eliminate the vague and misleading scuttlebutt that is essential to a good misunderstanding. If we're going to make a habit of including factual information in our discussions I believe it's going to water down these saucy exchanges and make them drab and pale!

Although I guess there is still some hope for altering the information, as Mark Twain said:

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."

Commence with the distortions!

I remain amazed at the number of times questions are posed and a thousand answers and opinions offered only to find out by asking the "source" that the truth lies elsewhere.

While I would think that carrying a canoe up to Provoking would be akin to Robert Di Niro climbing up the waterfall with his armor and weaponry in the 1986 movie, The Mission, others might take an inflatible to enjoy the waters of the lake.

-Jester

I know enough to know I don't know enough

just got back from provoking, we had a great time! fishing was excellent and the t-storm fri nite was the coolest I've ever seen! the highland trail was tougher than I thought, and apparently the canoe route trail from mew to two rivers then into provoking is flat and easy as pie, prob would have been easier to portage the canoe in, would have saved and hour at least. Either way we had a blast and some of the lookouts were pretty nice, we will be back for sure but next time we will take the portage trail and check out the island site (looked pretty good from where we were) hope you all get along I didn't see this thread turning into an argument really. canoe or backpack we do both alot and either way you can enjoy this lake and what it has to offer.

George

George, I don't know how you got the idea that the trail up from Lake of Two Rivers to Provoking is flat. I walked it a few years back (canoeless) and found it to be a pretty serious hill. Someone else care to comment?

Harry

I don't backpack. I canoe and portage, using the Canoe Routes Map.

I wouldn't park myself on a backpacking campsite for an overnight stay.

Just my personal way of playing the game.

Others can disagree with my interpretation and do whatever they want.



Barbara

Barbara,
If you bought a permit to canoe, then you should not squat on a backpack site.

However, if you bought a backpack permit, and were dumb enough to climb to Provoking Lake with a canoe to use while you backpacked, you would make camp at a backpack site. If you had a backpack permit and were on a lake such as Head, Harness or other where both types of campsites exist, you would not be entitled to camp at a canoe site.

A permit to backpack does not prevent you from enjoying the surrounding areas of the park, which include water.

The signs at the trailheads may say no snowmobiles or motorized vehicles or even bicycles. They do not say "No canoes".

The trouble with personal takes is that they don't always align with the actual park regulations.

-Jester

I know enough to know I don't know enough

You are correct Harry.
The official portage from Lake of Two Rivers, where it starts from at the old railway bike trail, upto Provoking Lake, is a climb.
I did it a two winters ago...it's neither steep or shallow, but something in-between, and long.
From Mew/Two rivers to the start of the portage, is virtually flat.

I'd also agree with george on the Thunderstorm. It seemed to go on all night long. IT was the most gentle and satisfying storm I had ever experienced in The Park....the long rolling thunder going for hours and hours, and the pink lightning..cool. None of that summer killer storm stuff. No wind, no trees cracking, a great spring storm. Would you believe we saw poplar and birch trees already had colour on them? Very early this year

Markus
Etobicoke, Onterry-airy-airy-Ohhh!

The way I read this is, as long as you have the correct permit you can bring your canoe to any site, even if there’s canoe sites on the same lake that has backpack sites. That said, shouldn’t the backpackers have their place in the park, as we canoeist have already have the lions share of the sites? -Cheers Tom

jester, I would not consider someone "dumb" for carrying a canoe into any lake they wish. There are many individuals who are willing to test their fitness levels to enjoy a nice paddle or fish their favorite spot on any given lake. Should that require portaging their canoe in then so be it. Cheers to all backpackers or canoeists (if you must be labelled as one or the other).

George

A canoe trip is different from a backpacking trip.

A canoe route is different from a backpacking route.

Elsewise, why would the Park go to the trouble of differentiating a backpacking campsite from a canoeing campsite by the use of two different signs?

S'all i'm sayin', eh.



Barbara

Some (Not all) backpacking sites are signed from the water as canoe sites (ie Lupus Lake)

Jeff

If you pay for a backpack permit you are on a backpack trip, even if you decide to carry a day pack, sleep without a tent or tarp and happen to lug a canoe with you up to Provoking Lake.

I can see you now: Moose Lady lays down across the trailhead not to protest harvesting of old growth timber but to prevent the one person in 25 years who decided to haul a canoe up to Provoking Lake to putz around while he is enjoying his backpack permit.

Heavens, backpacking and paddling, never the twain shall meet.

Also, if the park map is correct Lupus Lake is backpack only sites, although the old PDF map shows low maintenance sites they are not listed on the recent FOA Canoe Routes Map.

-Jester

I know enough to know I don't know enough

uncle.

Here's where one of those folding kayaks that fit in a back pack would come in nice.

I've been eyeballing the Feathercraft boats for a while.

I still dont see the difference, its like saying all the motor boat users should be upset at the canoers for being on those such lakes as Hogan

Get the defibrillator out, this one's still got a pulse!!!

most aptly titled thread?




Barbara

Going by these rules, if all the canoe sites on Rain Lake were booked, I could just book the backpacking site up aways on the right shore. I could just canoe in anyway. How could anyone prove I didn't carry the canoe in to the site. As long as I have a permit then it's OK. That still seems wrong to me and I would be pissed off if I was a hiker to see a canoe camped on that site. I think the right thing is just to canoe camp on canoe route lakes and hikers stay on hiking route lakes and sites.

Barbara,

I couldn't agree more about the apt title of the thread! You said what I've been thinking for two days!

Just go in the first two weeks, or during the black fly season. Plenty O' room.

I think George fell into the rocks with his head one two many times!!!