After using my Canon Sure Shot (1st generation) religiously for the past 6 years, I've decided to upgrade and invest in a a new camera. While I will be using the new camera for the basic "every day photography" needs, I would like something that will take great outdoor shots as well. I have admired many of the wonderful shots posted here on AA, and was wonderins what types of people use, as the quality of images posted seems better then what I can currently capture. In short, what model do people use? How much storage would you recommend for say 200 high res. photos to be stored? How much zoom, resolution, shutter speed, frame rate etc... would you recommend assuming that much of the photographs captured are from the "car window" or "canoe position."

Any advice would be appreaciated.

Thanks ahead of time!



Jeff P
http://algonquincanoeing.blogspot.com/

I have explored this a lot as well and my conclusion was that you're not going to get pro looking shots with a point and shoot camera.

Chris

In addition if you don't care about pro looking shoots and just want to take some decent digital pictures, just get whatever name brand camera is out there for around $150, 7 megapixels, etc. I have an Olympus FE-220 and with a 256mg card I can take around 300 pictures at 2048x1536 which is more than enough. Don't get sucked into spending much more than $150 unless you plan on printing large posters.



I took these with this camera and touched them up in Photoshop.





Chris

I would've chimed in earlier with what I have as a similar impression to the above. DSLR cameras bear at least a bit of a learning curve. I own a Canon Powershot right now and have been playing with the Manual settings. My first experience was that I'm a terrible photographer -- there are tons of parameters to play with and I worry that I might be wasting my money at this point if i were to purchase a DSLR without getting a knack for settings.

a family friend is a full-time trucker gone photography enthusiast and talks about learning on forums similar to our AA here but geared towards photography. he says that it's a great way to learn about working with your camera as each set of shared photography is accompanied by the user's settings for this sort of learning purpose.

good luck!

Hey Jeff,

I would HIGHLY recommend a Canon Rebel for a new camera. SLR is by far the way to go! So many features and crystal clear pictures!

I have a Canon Rebel XT (8.0 MegaPixels), and absolutely love it. No problems, easy to use, tons of features, and best of all, amazing pictures.

The only piece of advice I would give for a new camera is DONT take the cheap way. You get what you pay for, for digital cameras. If your budget permits, get a lens with Image Stabilization (IS). It automatically focuses the lense even if your "shakey" or get bumped, etc.

Good luck, and feel free to ask any questions you may have with my camera.

Cheers,
*Jamie

If you're talking digital SLR sure but there is no need to spend more than $150 on a digital point and shoot.

Christ for $150 you can get a 8MP Olympus.

How much do you know about composition, exposure, light balance etc. Many people need instruction on how to shoot more than they need a better camera. Do you want to make photography a hobby or just take better picture

While I'm not suggesting you not buy a new camera (I think a first gen sureshot is due for an upgrade) I've taken many pictures with my Powershot that are far better than some taken with +$2000 worth of DSLR.
A DSLR will only give you the potential for greater pictures, many of my friends that are photo nuts actually say they prefer their point and shoot cameras as the new ones are getting close to the SLR world and much more convenient. Do you want to carry (or buy$$$) multiple lenses? If not you may be able to find a point and shoot that works for you. The rebel does seem to be the DSLR of choice these days but it is worth noting Nikon has never made a camera that didn't fit all of their lenses, it sucks to upgrade your body and find all your glass doesn't fit. Happened to my dad, twice.

Though I'm certainly not the most knowledgeable in the forum.

On a related note I found this today, Idon't know if your model is supported but might be worth checking out.

http://lifehacker.com/387380/turn-your-point+and+shoot-into-a-super+camera

If it does work for your camera you might get a better point and shoot and still be able to buy the DSLR. Best of both worlds.

Hey all,

Thanks for all the info, and photo samples. I checked the firmware upgrade site, and unfortunatly my Canon model is not compatible; to bad to as that sounded really interesting.

When I got my last camera, it was considered "high tech" and I think that I was able to get so much out of it, for so long (I've probably taken some 10,000 shots with it and counting over the last 6 years) because I spent a bit extra right off the bat. As such I'm leaning towards doing that again. $700-$800 seems to be the going rate for full featured "high end-mid-level" cameras.


Jeff P
http://algonquincanoeing.blogspot.com/

I don't agree. You just don't get that professional look with a point and shoot. The field of vision is narrower and you can't have say a foreground object in focus while having the background out of focus.

These are key things to taking professional looking photos that I don't think a point and shoot can do. If they can, I'm all ears.

Chris

I saw this hit Slashdot yesterday, looks great since I do have a Canon camera. I'll be checking it out for sure, soon as I pick up a couple more memory cards.

S.

Jeff-

A couple of years ago I set out on the same search for a high quality mid-range camera that was portable enough to take on extended camping/canoeing trips. I wanted something with great macro and zoom capablitities, was easy on battery life (preferably taking easily available AA rechargables), was quick to respond and capable of continuous shooting for fast moving wildlife shots. I also wanted a camera with a fold-out swivel LCD, similar to the Nikon 5700 that I had been using, which gives you the ability to take candids and on-the-ground close-ups that are otherwise unviewable with a fixed LCD.

I picked up a Canon S 3IS and have never regretted the choice. It has a 36-432mm zoom range, which I have increased to 648mm with a 1.5x teleconverter that is one of several accessories available. In super macro mode it is capable of taking shots close enough for the subject to actually touch the lens. It has been upgraded by Canon to an S 5IS which increases the CCD from 6 megapixels to 8 and enlarges the LCD. The S 5IS can be purchased on the street for less than $600 and the older S 3IS can be had for a song. I carry two 2 GB SD cards and a 4 GB SD card, which gives me the capability of taking several thousand shots.

Short of bumping up to a true DSLR (which have all the advantages mentioned earlier, but with more weight and bulk at higher cost), I think you will be very happy with this Canon. The shots below, downsized for easier uploading, are ones I took in the last couple of years with the S 3IS.

Mark

I've been using a Nikon D70 for about 3 years now and I love it. One of the previous people mentioned they did not like Nikon, but I've loved both Nikon's I've owned (previoulsy had a film slr--and I was able to use my old lenses on my digital). Of the digital SLR's out there Nikon is a solid, well built piece of equipment which is great if you are doing alot of hiking/canoeing/camping etc. I've dropped mine on a couple of occasions and haven't even had a scratch on it. If your looking for an DSLR and your doing alot of photography in extreme conditions I highly recommend Nikon.

Guncho- I have to disagree with you. Look at the pics mark posted as evidence, point and shoot cameras have come a long way. If you want a narrow depth of field (that's the term for isolating what is in focus) you reduce your aperture by increasing your f stop, my point and shoot from four years ago allowed me to do this. As for the field of view that will be dependent on the lens the camera has but many PAS cameras these days have a wide range available (not to mention the add ons that Mark uses).

You can do it with the right know how.

James- If it was my comment about Nikon you're referring to then let me clarify. I have nothing against Nikon, in fact I was trying to give them credit for allowing you to use any SLR lens they make on any SLR camera they make. That's awesome considering the price of glass. Canon does not allow this, though they do seem to be the more popular choice these days for DSLR. Reading my comment again I realize it wasn't as clear as I meant, bottom line though is both Canon and Nikon make excellent cameras.

Mark- that's a nice camera, I was leaning toward a Pentax Optio WP (it being waterproof and all) but now I just might have to reconsider.

Some good pts already hashed out here.
Jeff
- Do you consider yourself a serious photography hobbyst?
- Are you willing to spend anywhere b/w $600-$1000 on a starter camera kit?
- Are you willing to learn the inner workings of an SLR (if you're not already familiar)?
- Are you willing to haul around what can be a fairly hefty camera gear load on your trips?
- Do you care a lot about image quality (not just digital pics but also prints)?

For me, all questions were answered YES so it justified getting one. I will warn you that it's a hobby that is not cheap to get into and it can potentially get increasingly expensive as you find out about other lenses out there that produce amazing images.

And a few other random pts to add:
- Learning SLRs has now become so much easier with instant user setting feedback and of course, the web, thanks to photography forums and on-line galleries.
- You ABSOLUTELY CAN take high quality and great images with point and shoots.
- Brand picking is really a matter of preference. Canon is preferred by more Pros compared to Nikon. Canon also has a greater lens selection. However, that's not to say that other brands like Sony, Olympus are inferior.
- Used DSLRs is a good option for saving some bucks. Canon XT, XTi and 30Ds are now much cheaper with the newer 40D that's rolled out. Same goes for Nikon.

Lastly, taking great photos is really not about what kind of equipment you use. You can't learn creativity but you can learn the technical aspect!!!!

Zeb: Thanks for your clarification. I did mis-read your post. I really do have a bias for Nikon!!

While DSLR's are harder to learn then point and shoot, you can put them in fully automatic mode while you learn how to use all the manual settings and the results turn out quite good (sometimes even better then using the manual settings). So if you are interested in spending the money and new to this type of photography, do not be intimidated by all the manual settings. That said I've actually considered getting a point and shoot camera for those times I don't feel like lugging around a big heavy camera.

First I should declare myself to be a certified Filmosaurus, still living in the Jurassic Age of Fujicolor and Ektachrome.

But I do pay attention to things digital. One item often overlooked is that not all megapexels are created equal. Sensor size matters. Google "digital camera sensor size" because you need to learn the terms to make sense of the camera specs. A 1/1.8" sensor is bigger than a 1/2.7" sensor, but smaller than a 2/3" sensor. (Huh?) And because size matters, 8 megapixels on a 1/1.8" sensor may give better resolution than 10 megapixels on a 1/2.7" sensor, or not. So read the specs. And check the reviews on any one of a number of online digital camera review sites. My personal favourite is http://www.steves-digicams.com

Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sony, Olympus - they all make fine dSLRs. If you are going that route, one of them has the features you want and will feel "right" in your hands. In my view, the one that "feels right" is the one that IS right no matter what the brand logo on the front says.

In my opinion, the biggest issue with digital point and shoot cameras is that most of them have either no eyelevel viewfinder or such a small "squinty" one that no one will ever use it. I believe that camera movement is the number one enemy of crisp photos and that holding your camera at arms length to compose on an LCD monitor is a great way to induce camera shake. An eyelevel view finder brings your camera and your arms in close to your body and greatly enhances your ability to hold it steady and shake free for your shot.

And, in the end, technology does not make great photographs. Sometimes technology makes capturing a great photo easier, but great photographs are the result of a combination of timing, being in the right place, and a creative "eye". People, not cameras, make great photographs. (oh, and film, of course, makes them better).

Peter I've got to agree with you about the view finders, it's so irritating that most PAS cameras don't have them anymore. There is of course the tripod option, I carry a light one, well it's kind of heavy for a light one actually. It's about 10" high but the legs extend to about 3'. It's not sturdy enough for an SLR but for a point and shoot it's great, big enough that I can hang a water bottle under it to help stabilize. That and a two second timer make all my landscapes work quite well.

I've never tried a string tripod but as an ounce counter I'm tempted. Get a 1/4-20 eyebolt at a hardware store (1/4-20 being both a common thread and the standard thread mount for cameras) and attach two loops of cord long enough to stand in while holding the camera. The idea is to push up against the loops on your feet and use the opposing forces to help stabilize it. I've read reports of careful users taking decent photos at 1/16 of a second like that. That seems like a stretch to me but I'm always carring cord with me anyways so it should be worth a try.

Has anyone here ever tried this?

That doesn't look like a point and shoot to me.

http://www.plemix.com/camera-canon-s3%20is-camera

How do you adjust the f-stop, aperature on a Olympus FE-220?

Chris

--------------Quote---------------------------
That doesn't look like a point and shoot to me.

http://www.plemix.com/camera-canon-s3%20is-camera

How do you adjust the f-stop, aperature on a Olympus FE-220?

Chris
--------------Quote---------------------------

Granted it's a high end point and shoot but it's clearly not an SLR

I don't own an Olympus so I haven't the foggiest idea but the manuals can be found here

http://www.olympus.co.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/download/manual/

The Canson S3 IS and the newer S5 IS do look alot like small DSLRs, but like other high end point and shoot cameras, they are not true DSLR cameras. Although they may have accessory lenses to enhance the capabilities of their built-in lens, they do not have true interchangeable lenses, which are a hallmark of DSLR cameras. And, distinctively, as Peter B. noted earlier, DSLRs have larger sensors, giving them the potential for higher resolution and significantly greater light sensitivity, which is especially important in avoiding the annoying "noise" that is common among point and shoot cameras in low light.

Perhaps the most striking difference, though, when you pick up a DSLR and look through the eye piece, what you see is a clear unobstructed view through the lens of the camera. On the other hand, point and shoot cameras that have an eye piece (and a number of them do, including the Canon cameras I have been talking about), use a small electronic viewfinder (EVF) - essentially a small LCD screen behind a magnifier. You are in effect looking at a miniature tv screen image of what the camera sensor is seeing. The quality of these EVFs can vary considerably from camera to camera, but none of them can hold a candle to the clarity of what you see through a true DSLR. If I ever step up to a DSLR, that is one of the distintive differences that I am looking forward to the most.

There are lots of web sites that give good, thorough reviews of digital cameras, but my favorites are http://www.dpreview.com/ and http://www.imaging-resource.com/. I wouldn't buy a camera without checking out what these two sites think of it, and of its closest competition, which they readily identify.

Mark

Another good point to make in regards to sensor size is that a lens from a 35mm film camera will not perform the same way with a DSLR as the size of the sensor is not the same.

Although it is better to actually look through the lens I do find that as long as you use the same camera for a while you will get a feel for how the camera works. Kind of like owning your own paddle vs. renting, it matter less how good the paddle is but after continuous use you get used to it.

Though admittedly it's better to get used to a good paddle than a poor one.

This is a very difficult question to answer, and the answer is a function of what you want to get out of photography.
I had a business years ago doing wedding photography, and have over the years purchased quite a few cameras. Each one has it's own nitch.

One time I brought my 4"x5" view camera up to the park. This camera with the tripod (you need a tripod for it) weighs maybe 20 lbs. Each piece of film is in it's own film holder, and must be changed in a dark room or black changing bag. The images are spectacular, but not something to carry around. I have a 16x20 photo of Wisky Rapids on my office wall from this camera. You can see details in every twig.

I also have taken a small point and shoot Nikon digitial. Very handy, small, but ofcourse nothing compared to the 4x5 in Images.

I also have a Nikon digital SLR. To take all the pictures that Mark posted above, would require 3 different lens. A macro (approx $450, a telephoto zoom $950, and the standard lens) IF your trip was dedicated to shooting, then I would take this SLR, but the body and those 3 lenses are pretty heavy together.

So it's all what you want to get out of it, and what tradeoffs you are willing to make.

The digital review website linked above is excellent.

Actually, the only one of the photos I posted that did not come straight out of my S3 IS is the one of the eagle, where I used the 1.5 teleconverter, which can be found for something around $100 on line. You can find the upgrade S5 IS for under $400 on the net these days.

I don't want to come off sounding like a shill for this Canon camera. My point is that there are very good point and shoot cameras out there that will keep an awful lot of us very happy. DSLRs are by all accounts the benchmark by which fine digital photography can be measured. But, like everything else, they come with trade offs. The trade-offs have not been enough to move me to buy one . . . yet (my one and only will have something to say about that decision).

What I have is light, compact, portable camera that is responsive enough to capture a fleeting scene on a moments notice, and capable of photos that fit my needs well. Most of what I do that I like ends up on note cards and greeting cards that I produce myself on a high quality Epson photo printer, or in slide shows that end up being shown on computers or digital projectors or on TV DVD's. None of these images require multi-mega pixels in order to get oohs and ahhs from my audiences, which is all the reward I ever need.

Mark

Try looking at Canon G9 (link below). It's a great P&S with 6X zoom

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong9/

I'm a semi-pro photographer and I have a D200 SLR and the Canon S3is. The price cost between the 2 is well over a thousand dollars but when I go into the park I take the S3is. It's small'ish and takes excellent pictures. You can find them used for next to nothing now. It has a 10x zoom and has manual modes if you want them. Also does great work of panoramas. When canoeing, camping, kayaking I'd never haul the weight of the SLR when I can get 95% of the quality from my smaller point and shoot.

Go to my websites and see if you can figure out which are the S3 and which are the SLR. I think you'll be surprised. It's not the camera that makes the picture, it's the person behind the camera.



Scott
http://www.scottcrousephotography.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vp9mm

btw, here are shots of my Algonquin trips the past 2 years. All taken with the S3.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vp9mm/sets/72157600470285255/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vp9mm/sets/72157594456564659/



Scott