Hey Jeff P

I have been really enjoying your trip logs, blog site, and your posts on AA forum. While reading your blog site have noticed your nice new 15' Langford (Prospector?). I also have a nice new red Langford 16'6 Prospector. I have used it a lot on day trips but I have yet to use it for an interior camping trip. (Going in 2 weeks though)

I find my Langford a little wobbly and have to kneel in it when it's empty. Do you find this and how do you find it paddles when it’s weighted down with camping gear?

SBA
Muskoka,ON

Hi SBA

Thanks for your kind words.

In short I absolutely love my canoe, and wouldn't trade her for another canoe. To answer your questions,

The 15" ultra lite Prospector I have handles better fully loaded, and with a paddle partner then when I solo, and empty. The one disadvantage to a 48lb canoe is that even with a little wind, she likes to sail. When I was loaded with two adults in her, she was more responsive, easier to keep on course, and kept the momentum of travel better. When I was loaded with my kids, and even loaded and solo, this decreased a little, but I still found her an easy paddle. When she's empty and I'm alone I paddle from the mid section, and find that she is very responsive, but I need to work a bit harder at keeping a steady course. I've been in many different canoes over the years though, and have found that this is common with most canoes when they are empty and soloed in.

In terms of kneeling, I must admit that I always kneel, as I find it physically more comfortable then sitting. Kneeling no doubt offers more stability to the rider and probably adds to my favoring this technique. I have been also working on my "omering" (mid section paddling while leaning the canoe sideways) and find that this has added to my ability to control the boat in heavier winds. Omering felt really weird at first, but has become my preferred soloing technique in winds.

As for gear, a few weeks ago I had my 2 boys in it, and a FULL load of gear. The boat in my mind is at its best then, and suspect that you will find the same true with the 16.6". To test it out try paddling with a few full water jugs in the front (or a mid size rock for that matter) and see how yours handles. One thing is for sure, the Langford Prospector design accommodates a large volume of gear and pack dimensions. Even with two adult packs, two folding chairs, food sack, bundle of wood (it was during the park opener in April that I brought wood as I was unsure of the availability of dry wood in the recently thawed park), 3-six packs, and day pack, along with two fully grown men, the boat could have easily handled an additional barrel.

Is your Prospector an ultra light? Does it have a gel coat exterior finish? An internal finish? All of these things add weight, and stability. Mine has an external gel coat finish (as I wasn't crazy for the "see through" yellow that the non coated ultra lites came in), and really wanted a red canoe, but does not have the inner finish (its a greyish colour). When I tested out various different material options for the Prospector I did notice slightly more stability in the inner coated models, but felt that the added weight of the finish was too much for the little increase in stability, especially since I am usually with gear or company when in my boat.

Hope this helps!

If you have any other questions please ask. Do keep an eye on your seats though, as my rear one snapped and I discovered that it had been stapled together rather then woven. I'm having this repaired this week, but was surprised then TT almost cut his hand on a loose staple. I've been assured this was an over site by Langford, but I would check yours just the same.

So where are you traveling to in two weeks? I'm hoping to be back in the park then as well, and if you wanted to test mine out, I'll let you paddle mine if you let me paddle yours

Jeff P
http://algonquincanoeing.blogspot.com/

1. Still hoping to test drive the Old town Pack canoe soonest

2. Also somewhat interested in ANY OTHER LIGHT/SHORT RECOMMENDATIONS?

3. I have a 14' fiberglass ( 68 lbs) that is great for solo with little/no portaging
( e.g. Opeongo tested and proven ) and as well a 17' prospector golden glass (70 lbs) for
dual/buddy interior tripping but I really would like to test/buy a 32-35 lb solo canoe:-)
( Hopefully around $1000 if possible and the oldtown pack sounds perfect
at just over $800 )

Anybody ever tried the Oldtown pack or another 12/13' solo canoe under 35 lbs. Also really having a hard time finding a rental place for such canoes
except so far Quetico and Temigamin area outfitters. I will check out
MEC tomorrow as they may rent such craft but I would prefer a
Cedar lake , Opeongo or Canoe Lake option
Maybe somebody even has one and wants to swap canoes for a day some weekend in the Park

Any other ideas how to rent/borrow one for at least a full day test would be appreciated.


P.S. I asked before ( last fall/winter ) but perhaps others have gained such experience since that I would be really gratefull to hear about.

Rac n

Rac:~):~)n

I'm curious why you are focused on a shorter canoe. From what I can tell, the primary advantage of a short, 12-13' canoe, is cost, which is, of course, no small matter. Still, it is possible to get a 15+' solo well under 40 lbs, making the weight of a solo boat pretty managable.

On the other hand, one of the important features of a solo canoe compared to a tandem is how boyant it is when you and your gear are positioned reasonably close to the center, or pivot point, of the canoe. This advantage is increased with a longer canoe, which makes a longer canoe, in my experience, more seaworthy than a shorter one. Given two canoes with the same rocker, a longer canoe is also more likely to track better in open water, without giving up too much maneuverability in smaller water.

The solo canoe I have used most in Algonqun is a 23 year old, 15'8" 34-36 lb Curtis. It has a low profile, which keeps it from catching all but the strongest winds while still managing all of Algonquin's biggest lakes pretty handily. The only time I was ever windbound was for a few hours on Opeongo, in weather that would have given me pause in a tandem. Admittedly, I have always used kayak paddles while soloing, which give a solo paddler a distinct advantage in dealing with wind and more open water.

If you can find something you can afford, I'd recommend you give a longer solo boat a try, and compare the two under trip conditions if you can. I'd be curious what you think of how the two stack up.

-Mark

Shore bound, In regards to you finding your langford unstable when empty I too found the same when we first paddled our 16'6" langford Nahani. The difference when loaded is night and day. With a couple of loaded packs, two paddlers and a 60lb dog the canoe settles in and handles beautifully. After spending some time in it I found it more and more comfortable even when empty.

I will feed back to this forum on
what I found suitable in waters like Opeongo/Cedar

If I am not feeling as secure as when I'm in my
epoch 14' St Ignace on any water ( smooth or whitecapped)
then I don't care if it weighed 20 lbs or 50 lbs


I just want to give all versions from 12' Pack to a 14'
lite kevlar the Racoon test

I like the idea of the oldtown tough, lightweight
Royalex material construction since I'm not the type
to baby my canoe at portage ladings/takeoffs
in May temperature water.
I believe that this material will
allow a few scraps and bumps at non dock landing/putin
(FEW FOUND IN THE REAL INTERIOR )
as I believe Royalex is meant to be a white water material and hopefull will glide of those rocks always there at such
interior porate start/end points.


Just can't wait to dance the tides and brave a few waves
as a field test

Rac n

Thanks Jeff P for your response. I'm sorry it's taken me soooo long to respond. I have been away from the computer for a few days. It's good to know that the Prospector will perform well once I get it loaded down with camping gear. I can't wait for Thursday to go tripping with it. (Rock to Penn just a relaxing trip w/ the bugs)

As jjpt said "After spending some time in it I found it more and more comfortable even when empty" I'm sure I just need some practice in it to get comfort with it. I have only done one solo 360 spin in the wind so far. Hahaha

My Langford is an Ultra lite with no internal finish and I'm not sure about the external gel coat finish. I don't know as I did not buy the canoe. It's a long story. I'll email you off site to explain.

Could you please post a pic of your canoe once you get the skid plates put on? I am thinking of getting them too and I want to see how they look.

I'll check my seats as you have said……..I'm thinking about taking out the sliding bow seat to put in a stationary bow seat for some more room in the bow.

Thanks again Jeff P and everyone else for their responses.

SBA
Muskoka, ON