I thought you would find this really interesting. 95% of the attacks since 1980 have happened in wilderness areas where human approachment and construction is not a factor. It's almost like UV rays are making bears more violent or something.
Has anyone had any ugly encounters with bears in Algonquin in the last couple of years?
perhaps bears have been moving from more so remote areas as a result of development in other areas hence creating a higher density bear population in other areas. furthermore, not 100% certain, but i believe the bear hunt licence has been lowered in many areas which lends itself to more bears. so be it, they were there first.
December 9 2008, 7:00 PM
I think it would be interesting to see how many of those attacks where attributed to Grizzlies vs browns, and to examine the other variables associated with the attacks, cubs, fresh kills etc. With Bear populations on the rise, human populations on the rise and more people heading out into these wild places I expect these general stats to continue to rise. I am fortunate to say though that the only bears I seem to encounter are those heading the other way, usually crashing and stumbling to get away I might add, (cant figure it out im sure im quite tasty. However,Bears will be bears!
Cookslav (no login)
Canceled Hunt vs. habitat loss
December 9 2008, 9:52 PM
Truth be told the increase in overall incidents as in...Attacks, Property damage, and other issues is directly related to the Cancelled Spring Bear hunt.
Hunters "used" to partake in the spring hunt for a number of reasons.
very Inactive bears make for Tender meat, and the spring hunting options were limited, so it was a great spring activity that many enjoyed.
But almost no one hunts them in the Fall...
The reasons are simple,
There are Moose, and Deer hunts to occupy the Hunters time, and fill our fridge with meat.
And the most important reason....a fall hunt is NOT sporting at all
Think about it.
In the fall they are Super fat, lazy, and in their den 99% of the time.
How sporting is it to shoot a bear in their den???
The MNR might as well just have cancelled hunting Bear in general...almost no one hunts them in the fall.
The hunt has been cancelled for many years now since 1999.
The main reason...
Animal rights groups convinced the Harris government there was a serious Cub orphaning issue.
There never was any "population" issue, it was an animal cruelty concern.
(unfounded IMO, but thats just an opinion)
In the last 9 going on ten years the populations are booming, and of course these animals are not known to hang out together most of the year, so they disperse, and find their own territories.
This combined with our current issue of urban sprawl, and habitat loss causes a shortage of suitable habitat to support the booming populations of bear.
Thus we have bears in our communities more often.
Even in the wild there is a significantly more competitive nature to food sources, and territory.
So as omnivores, and being quite resourceful scavengers bears see us humans as an easy meal ticket.
Be it our Garbage, camp sacks, BBQ's or the smell of pepperoni on your breath, we are becoming associated with food more and more to the bruins.
Nine times out of ten these bears are labelled nuisance bears...I don't like that term.
They are just being resourceful...like it or not we're a food source.
A reinstated hunt would be a good idea in my opinion for conservation of the "healthy" stock
and it would limit the issues.
Is the apparent increase an artifact of increased reporting?
December 11 2008, 9:28 AM
The opening paragraph of the Wikipedia article concludes with: "Prior to recent decades bear attacks were not well documented, particularly those which took place in isolated regions. As a result there were more attacks and fatalities than have been recorded as shown here, particularly in Canada and Alaska."
I would prefer the last sentence to read "As a result there were probably more ..." just to avoid jumping to a conclusion. Nonetheless, the point that the statistics are likely incomplete is still valid.
Reading the descriptions, there also seems to be a shift towards assuming that any body that a bear has fed on was originally killed by the bear. While undoubtedly true in some cases, bears are scavengers and would willingly feed on a body that was already dead.
No your other left!
Tenzing, I don't know whether you are lucky or unlucky. I treasure every bear encounter I have ever had (22 bears since 1963, 16 of those in Algonquin), probably because the adrenaline rush forever burns each experience into my nervous system. In recent years I have seen very few, unfortunately, fortunately.
John doesn't mention it, but our most recent bear encounter was last July 13 on the Tim River, late in the afternoon on the our first day of a two week trip. By his small size, he was likely a yearling, browsing along the shore, largely unconcerned with the three canoes drifting by. Eventually he got uncomfortable with the ooglers hanging around and wandered back into the woods.
The Wiki list is interesting, but I'm curious that there is no mention of John Dennison, who by several accounts in various Algonquin histories had settled a farm on Opeongo Lake in the 1870's and was killed by a bear that he had caught in a trap somewhere along the Green Lake portage. (my handiest reference was in The Algonquin Centenial Series, Barney Moorehouse, The Bancroft Times,1993, pp. 70-72.)
I too am surprised by how few bears people seem to encounter in the Park. They have not been a regular feature of my experience in APP, but I see them and their signs often enough to be confident that they are there, whether I see them or not.
For sure, they are commonplace in our camping experience on Georgian Bay where they are more visible in the open, rocky landscape, and it is not unusual to see at least one, if not two or more, every summer. The shot below, taken just north of Byng Inlet and which I posted here before, is my favorite of many I have taken on the Bay.
John, I agree with you 100% about the adrenaline rush and I do wish to see more.
I did see quite a few in Alaska, including one while fishing on the Russian River (Kenai Peninsula).
The banks of the Russian are quite steep, and there is a two-flight stairway from the top to the bottom. I had finished fishing and stopped halfway up the stairs to take a picture when I heard a slight crack, like a twig breaking. I turned and saw a black bear about 10-15 feet away, just plodding along.
The adrenaline kicked in big time. I backed away very slowly, down the stairs, until he got out of sight and I gave a "Whoa Bear!" and got down the stairs in double time.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a bear in Algonquin, just not 10 feet away again
Anonymous (no login)
December 11 2008, 5:17 PM
About 1953 while backpacking along a survey slash line in northern Vancouver Island we ran into a black bear with her cubs. There were four of us: the engineer in the lead, me next in line and two others behind me. I only managed to catch a glimpse of the fangs in the wide-open-mouth (over the engineer's shoulder) as she charged us. With me in the lead, the engineer and I beat a rapid retreat (over the bodies of the other two) to a "safe" distance. When we stopped and looked back the bear was gone. But from memory, I can still see a vivid image of those fangs.
hk (no login)
December 11 2008, 5:59 PM
Wasn't there a bear attack about two years ago in the spring - as I remember,when older gentleman was hiking with his dog and both of them got ruffled by a big bear,both had to be air-lifted for a medical care.As a matter of fact,I saw the news on this message board.hk
Bryce (no login)
Re: bear attack
December 11 2008, 7:11 PM
There was that guy who defended himself and his dog from a black bear a few years back. He was a Kitchener native from what I recall, there's probably links in the myccr.com forums for the story.
Anonymous' story reminds me of the movie The Great Outdoors. The glorified bald-headed bear and its fangs. I hated the fact that my dad made me watch that movie so much as a kid, but I think i'm gonna have to do the same to my kids! Sorry to bring jest into the situation, but that is a great movie if you've never seen it
Really interesting thread. Humbling as it reenforces that we are not at the top of the food chain, as does black fly season. There are many factors at work including but I am sure not limited to, habitat destruction, more people moving into bear territory, better record keeping, cancellation of the spring hunt, bears becoming more oportunistic in the face of human landscapes... I have nothing but deep love and and tremendous respect for these majestic creatures. As a tracker I constantly try to extend my awareness to pick up on the nuances caused by a bear moving through the ecosystem. My plan is to see the bear without it seeing me. Although I accept that it is more often the oposite...
zeb (no login)
Statistics lie 8 out of 10 times
December 12 2008, 6:43 PM
Quote - "Basically, leathal (sic) bear attacks double every year, which is scary."
Actually they double every decade, you are off by an order of magnitude, except for the 80s where there was a significant drop in the rate of increase (perhaps Duran Duran has an effect on bear attacks). The data is also ignoring the population increase of humans as well as the previously mentioned bear population.
But most importantly this is an excellent example of relative statistics vs. absolute statistics. Saying the attacks double every decade is technically accurate but when the absolute numbers are compared to the rise in population during that same period the rise is insignificant. 25 people out of 335,000,000 people is not that large an effect.
dano (no login)
Re: Statistics lie 8 out of 10 times
December 12 2008, 8:56 PM
Bears, worry, or not to worry! While hiking, portaging or bushwhaking, I have personally been face to face with bears on 8 occasions, and heard many more running away through the bush. 6 of those meetings were in Gatineau Park. I'ved must of seen bears at least 25-30 times while in a vehicule...not as fun.
I have been lucky so far as I have been very close to some cubs, no kidding, I mean close, at one time the cub was 2 meters away, it was digging in some rotten log, at first I thought it was a racoon until it lifted it's head. My buddy panicked and started to run from where we cam from, but the cub was doing the same so I told my friend to stop and to walk back as I had just heard 30 seconds before some sort of a growl from back there...it must of been the mother bear.
Alone with my 18 month daugther, I was pushing her stroller in one of the wilder parts of Gatineau Park, and again nobody was around for miles as it was a weekday morning. Kilometers into our hike, we spotted a very small cub, as this was early May, so I just stopped and waited to see where it was going so not to be between them. It was 8-10 metres from us, so I just backed away and continued on the other trail.
Bears are also in town, I mean Hull, where Gatineau Park starts. While walking with my girlfriend and her daughter, I noticed a cub, again digging into a log, only 5 meters from the paved bike path. It just ignored the cyclists and walkers, so we just stayed there and watched it for a minute or so, but my girlfriend's daugther being in a wheelchair was getting nervous as the mother bear wasn't far away. Before leaving, I talked out loud to the bear and "that" frightened it away, I wanted to let it know to avoid humains...for it's own safety, not ours!!
In Algonqin, my brother got charged at by a big male while he was camping alone at Log Canoe Lake. It was sunset when he spotted the bear a 100 metres away along the shoreline, so he then yeld out at the bear to show his presence and the bear did not like it and immediatly started to run towards my brother, who remained calm, took his knife out and stood his ground while yelling at the bear, who fortunatly stopped 10 metres away, turned around and left in the bush. While his heart was "pounding", he was happy to not have been more "involved" with that bear.
Every encounter is different and mostly unexpected, so remain calm as you only have 2 to 5 seconds to analyse the situation and to then take a decision on how to react...fun!
Worry, or not to worry!
Mark (no login)
Re: Statistics lie 8 out of 10 times
December 12 2008, 9:29 PM
I used to go to Algonquin three to four times a year. I saw a few bears but never very many. They always seemed to be in a big hurry to run away.
I moved to Alberta about 7 years ago and now do my fishing in the Rockies. Lots more bears out here - both grizzlies and black bears. Alberta was a busy place for grizzlies this year. There were a few attacks and one fatality.
I had my own close encounter - was hiking back to the truck after a day of fishing and literally almost stumbled onto a sleeping grizzly bear. He was only 20 feet away and started to stand up growling when I woke him up. Fortunately he was facing away from me and I was able to back away and scramble up a steep embankment before he saw me (it was a hot day and he was likely slow and a bit groggy). Funny thing was, the day before I saw two other grizzlies about 10 km away - first time I had seen any grizzlies in this area.
Here's a clip about an attack and some video I shot of the two bears I saw
In Algonquin I never used to carry any anti-bear devices. In Alberta I never go anywhere without my bear spray. I'm likely going to invest in some bear bangers soon as well. You have to be careful when you are in black bear country but grizzly bears are in a whole different league.
AS - if you reading this - Merry Christmas!
Chemist (no login)
Re: Bear Attack Trends for North America
December 13 2008, 9:49 AM
Gone are the days when many outdoor adventurers/workers carried a firearm year round. Years ago I read an old Algonquin park write up that recommended that trippers carry a side-arm. Having a gun would not eliminate the possibility of being killed by a bear but if one was coming at me I would be more comfortable having some firepower to defend myself (and I don't mean a .22)
I would add fewer armed outdoorsmen as a factor along with better recording and publicizing of incidents and more opportunity for bear human interaction to the upswing in fatalities.
Bearcub (no login)
Re: Bear Attack Trends for North America
December 13 2008, 11:28 AM
Yes, I seem to recall my father packing a rifle on his trips way back when. I had one bear encounter in 2003 at Lawren Harris Lake when we came across a large bear 10 yards away that seemed to be sniffing at us......we just walked on but a frightening experience being that far into the interior. Also saw a mother bear and two cubs in 2006 running across the Opeongo road; was much nicer seeing them behind the windshield of a car.
Preacher (no login)
Re: Bear Attack Trends for North America
December 13 2008, 11:36 AM
Saw one bear on the back roads of Nova Scotia once. I was glad to be in my car as the bear rivaled it in size. Only seen one little cub in the wild.
A few years back I was heading in to my cottage just north of Huntsville, and saw two cubs playing in the bush about a half km from my cottage. While the cubs were as cute as could be, there was no way I was getting out of the car to get my camera from the trunk to snap a picture, as I knew Momma Bear had to be close by. Funny how the little ones were so easy to spot, and yet Momma stayed totally hidden. (Since then I carry the camera in the front with me.) Later that same weekend we were told there had been numerous sittings, and that one cottager was scared to death when he went to deposit his garbage in the "lake bin" only to be surprised by a yearling jumping out, as he was opening the door to slide his garbage in. Apparently those bear proof canisters aren't totally bear proof after all. (Since then we got new bins.)
In 20 plus years of back country camping, I have only had 2 bear sightings, both from a good distance. First time was in the mid 80's on a trip to the French river. We were on the water and saw the medium-size bruin walking the cliff above us, didn't even seem to notice us. The second sighting was in Algonquin a few years back. I can't remember the exact lake, but it was in the Burnt Island lake area. We saw a small cub walking the shoreline, again seemingly indifferent of our prescence. I do remember we had a portage shortly after seeing the cub and we were extra noisy\aware in anticipation of mama's prescence.
As a side note to Chemist's post, my father (who at the time was a senior ranked police officer, now retired) carried a fire-man with him on all our interior trips together in the late 70's. I never knew this at the time (he only told me a few years back) and explained that it was the only way my mother would allow us to go back-country camping,lol. He admits he would not do this now, nor would I, but just an example of changing attitudes/times.
Stoney Creek, Ontario
Cookslav (no login)
December 13 2008, 11:26 PM
I've had a couple sightings in my day, but only one close call.
Lake nippising in the West arm,
It was a fairly isolated spot, and the Camp was having some major issues with a bear(or bears)
The first night we heard stories of a bear ripping apart a guys Boat earlier that day...
He appearently left fish in the Live well, when they docked and he ran into the cottage to pee...the Bear climbed into the Boat, and ripped apart his seat, and mangled the cover to his live well.
2 days later we came back to camp for dinner, to see the camp handy man on the roof of a neighboring cottage and he was yelling something but we couldn't hear him very well so we docked and got closer only to see our Screened in porch ripped apart and the BBQ strewn across the front yard.
The Handy man was yelling at us to stay in the boat...cause the bear had JUST left.
He caught the bear doing the damage, and yelled at it, but instead of running it charged at him!
He climbed the TV antenna to get away....
This was a Boat access only camp, so we had to park at an access point at the end of an old logging road....nothing there but a spot for a few cars to park, a small dock and a Garbage dumpster were the Local Natives pick up the Garbage.
I unfortunatly had to leave mid week because of some prior engagments, so on Wednesday my Dad and Uncle shuttled me to the access point and dropped me off by boat so I could pack my car and be on my way....as they sped away and out of sight I finished Packing my car, and turned the key expecting the car to start.
To bad it appeared my pasenger side door was wedged open by the seatbelt buckle, which meant my Interior light had been on for 5 days strait and the battery was toast.
This is before the days of cellphones, so I figured I was kinda screwed.
I had 3 choices...
Start Walking the Logging road to the Highway and beg for some help, Start traversing the Shore line in hopes of finding a Cottager willing to help me out or set up camp waiting for someone to hopfully come in or out of the access point which seemed fairly unlikely Mid week.
So I made the desicion to walk to the Highway....
I made it no more then 30 feet from my car when I herd a russle at the Garbage enclosure.
There was a beaten up Half ton pick up truck beside it, so I thought
"hey...Maybe someone is here picking up the trash"
So I started walking over there when the whole dam building starts rocking!!!
Guess who was pushing against the door trying to gain access inside!
(Or atleast I thought it would be the same Bear)
Well of course I stopped and stood very quietly as he walked out from behind the Shed until he saw me and started my way almost Imediatly...
I walked backwards not turning my back on him until I was close enough to my car to quick hop in.
Let just say he was not timid...
He circled my car, sniffed at my windows for a good 10 minutes which felt like 10 hours LOL!
To add insult to the situation I couldn't even Honk my horn to scare him away...the battery was completly dead.
Thank God he eventualy decided I wasn't worth the effort, and went back over to the dumpster, and eventualy disapeared into the bush, but one thing was for certain....I would NOT be Walking anywere...I was staying put and waiting LOL!!!
I was EXTREMELY lucky and about 3 hours later someone did come to collect the Garbage...I guess I had some good karma on my side?
Or so I thought...
The guy was completely smashed, and practicly falling down drunk LOL!
He hit my car not once but twice trying to get close enough to hook up the Jumper Cables.
But really...I was in no situation to get angry, I NEEDED his help
It took a while but we got the engine going and I was on my way finally.
about 3-4 hours late but atleast I had a good story to tell :P
AP (no login)
December 14 2008, 10:28 AM
I would also guess that much of the increase of bear attacks is obviously with increased numbers going to the woods but also an increase number of people who go to the woods uneducated. With all the tools available everyody feels that they can go in the back country but don't bother to educate themselves on how to camp safely. In the past those who went to the backwoods were fewer and possibl better prepared.
forget the bear bangers, bring a lifeguard, don't drive and stay away from dogs...
December 16 2008, 5:37 PM
Hi all; some mild apologies for the crass message title, but the more I thought of the bear subject, the more I became aware of the distortions in fact. I don't wish to diminish the fear and anxiety of a bear incident of even the mildest form (I have a grizzly story in the Yukon that left me shaking most of the night...). However, here are some stats that show the relative safety of bears in the backcountry and the greater need for safe driving, excellent swimming and paddling skills, PFDs and caution when using vending machines:
Avereage annual Deaths by Lightning (Canada) 9
Average annual Injuries by Lightning (Canada) 92 - 164
Average annual number of Fatalities as a result of motor vehicle accidents (Canada) 2800 - 2900
Number of personal injuries in 2006 as a result of motor vehicle accidents (Canada) 144,756
Death in receational boating scenarios (Ontario) 36
Deaths in boating accidents 1996 -2000 (Canada) 888
Deaths of children by drowning in 2002-2003 in Canada 58
Preventable water related deaths associated with canoeing (Canada 1994 - 1998) 30
Death by dog attacks (Canada 1990 - 2007) 28
Death by dog attacks (Canada average per year) 1 to 2
AND MY ALL TIME FAVOURITE:
Number of death per year by falling vending machine (global) 2
Cookslav (no login)
Slight differnce though
December 16 2008, 8:10 PM
Millions upon millions of people are subjected to Lightning, storms, and Dogs daily,
While bear sightings are rare(however increasing)
And one major difference is that although the odds of running into a bear are slim...once you've encounterd him the odds of an issue can triple very quickly depending on how you handle yourself. With The Population of bears increasing + decreasing habitat makeing for more and more Face to face "Meetings" Awareness and education is Crucial.
Of course Its all relative to the situation your in....
If I'm out on an Island Site in the middle of a big open lake on top of an out cropping in my tent with Graphite poles in the middle of a Storm I very well may get hit by lightning...
But of course if I'm down low, away from any tall trees I will most likely be fine.
Bears are the same way...
If you keep a messy camp, and your leaving food around your tempting fate.
If you take preventitive measures you limit the chances.
Bryce (no login)
Re: forget the bear bangers, bring a lifeguard, don't drive and stay away from dogs...
December 16 2008, 11:35 PM
Was gonna say the same thing, but Cookslav hit it on the head. Many more people are subjected to the above things. For a more convinced "odds" argument, you really have to compare the number of incidents to the number of people who are in the environment for such an incident to occur.