Anyone got the scoop on carts? Do they really help or are they just a pain? Can you actually put gear in the boat while "carting it"?

We've been going in to the park for years and we've always portaged with the gear on our backs. This year, we don't have seven days to do the loop but we do want to try and make it into Laveille. We were going to use the cart trail on the bonniefield instead of portage (I've done this portage route three times and it's tough with full packs but managaeble).

We're all sitting on the fence on this one.. bottom line, we don't know if it's actually going to help or hinder us in getting in and out quickly.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

87 days and counting...

I believe this topic was discussed in detail a month or two ago. Check the archives for the details. For the sake of feedback, I am not in favor of using canoe carts in AP. It may be helpful on the cart trail, but what about rocky, hilly trails? A canoe cart just does not say "Algonquin Interior" to me. But then again, I won't be in the Park in May, so I won't stop you!

Logging trucks and diesel fumes don't say "Algonquin interior" to me, but they are reality.

Canoe carts: some work better than others, some are tossed off to the side, halfway through a portage.

Some portages/trails just scream out for carts. "Flat, level, no hills, no rocks, no tree-roots....."

Do a search of the old threads, read the trip logs, that should give you enough to make a decision.



Barbara

Having done the portage into Dickson many times, a cart is definitely the way to go. And yes, absolutely put your gear in the cart. The last km into Dickson is a little bumpy but still cartable or you could do a double carry.

If you're doing the loop through proulx, big crow, lavieille, dickson, bonfield I'd say don't bother as I think it'd be too much of a hassle having to drag that cart over so many portages until you get to use it on your way out when you're light on food anyways. If you're considering going in and out via the dickson-bonfield portage I would strongly recommend it and then stash it in the woods until you return to the portage at the end of the week. My next time into Lavieille that is the route we are taking but I'm not sure if that will be 2010 or 2011 yet.

Did I miss a debate somewhere? Is somebody considering using a logging truck to carry their canoe down a trail? That seems to be quite a bit of impractical overkill. Some trippers prefer to use traditional methods instead of new technologies, especially when the new thing doesn't always make like easier. Perhaps I read too much into that comment...

Hi Bearcub,

just out of curiosity, how flat is the cart trail?
I know what the portage is like, even where the cart trail joins it, but I have never been on the cart trail itself. Is it very flat or are there hills to roll over? IF so, are there any steep sections to the cart trail?

Thanks in Advance:-)



Mark Rubino
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler - Blog
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

Doesn't scream interior Algonquin park to us either as we are seasoned interior portage peeps.... I would never take a cart on 99% of the trails I've been on as it would seem to be more of a hastle then an advantage (rocky, hilly etc.) But... since the bonfield does have a cart trail and we are going in via the bonfield-dickson paddling through Dickson to Laveille, and coming out the same way, we thought this might be a chance to give it a whirl. The last KM of the bonfield-dickson route is not a cart trail and I've watched people struggle with carts on this section as I cruise by a la Mr Canoe head. With this being said, I think that if we do it, we'll lock up the cart at the end of the cart trail and portage the last KM.

Thanks again everyone... this forum never ceases to amaze me in that everyone seems to generally have very helpfull feedback. Failing that, the responses are always at the very least, entertaining

86 Days and counting...

Well I was never one for carts BUT after being lay-ed up for the past 6 months with a torn cartiledge in my knee as well as the arthritis really taking hold I'm definnetly going to have to go the cart route...

My love for the Park is un-dying, Drs say that I'm not to overdue it and take extra precautions so now I'm going to build a cart that will withstand anything...

My cart will have regular small trailer tires (with tubes) and will be designed to carry the load of our packs without breaking our canoes spine.

As well it will have at least 30" of clearance and no straight axle but each wheel will be independent (like wheel barrow wheels).


So when I get her built I'll post some pics.

But all in all NOTHING will ever stop my love for the park and canoeing ..LOL

Hey Markus, the cart trail from Opeongo to Dickson is very flat in the beginning then has a slow steady rise. Just prior to meeting up with the old Dickson Bonfield portage, there is a very steep descent but that's it for major hills. Not only is the cart trail faster (did it once in 1 hour 40 minutes with cart), it's also a really nice walk, great forest.

Optional whether to stash the cart at the junction with the old portage. Our rule of thumb was to never load the canoe cart with any more than we'd take on a regular carry trip, then we always got around the bumpy section no problem and the last bit into Dickson is clear sailing.

I did once go in with a large group in the 80's who decided to pack as much into their carts as possible (anchors included believe or not + cases of beer). Needless to say, every cart broke on the way in.......another lesson learned the hard way. It took one group 6 1/2 hours to make it across to Dickson that day.....yikes

anchors? LOL! That's what rocks and a bit 'o rope is for!! heh heh
Thanks for the info Bearcub. This helps.
Cheers



Mark Rubino
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler - Blog
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

Markus, We found it pretty easy going, the last part (where the Trail meets the portage) Was a large downhill section, and a bit rough, but we carted all the way to Dickson.
It is mostly on an old logging road.
Here is a shot of the start of the trail.

I picked up this cart a few years ago from MEC (now on special) and have used it a few times. I got it specificaly for the Rain - McCraney L portage as it goes along an old railbed. The trip to McCraney is nice for a nice family weekend as the 1,800m portage scares many people off towards Sawyer L etc... The cart allows us to get across in one pass (huge benefit with kids under the age of 7!). The cart itself is fine for this kind of "easy" passage, I would not want to trust it on anything too rough or with too heavy a load. For this kind of use I highly recommend it as it has saved us hour of walking (and grumbling kids).


http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442095347&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302700901&bmUID=1233764238477

From someone who has used that identical cart on many occasions a word of warning. It's is only good on smooth roads. Any type of uneven treking will cause you much distress and agro.

Any small rock or log or undulation will easily dislodge the cart or cause it to become off centre. The wheels are too small and sit to close to the ground which makes clearance an issue and the straps do not stbalize it very well.

Look for a cart with bike type tires on it that sits nice and high.

B

My buddy bought one for the trip in the above picture. We rented 2 others with bike tires as seen in the picture. The one from MEC will only ever be used for that one trip. it was 50 times more a pain then the rented ones with bike tires. It did work, but the clearance was an issue.

Andrew - I agree with Brandon/Mike. I have that same dolly and unless the trail is root/rock/mud free you'll have problems with it. In addition, if there are any boardwalks to navigate on portages that dolly's width (and likely most others) is too wide, so you'll have either drag it over the boardwalk or support one edge of the vessel as you gingerly roll with one wheel (not an easy task). Also not a good idea to load up a canoe with gear when on the dolly - risk of damaging the boat and/or the dolly as they do have weight guidelines.

I've only used the dolly with my kayaks, and portaged my gear separately with the Duluth Packs. For canoe it's always the classic style solo over the shoulders - way faster and imo, less effort than dollying the thing.

Does anyone know where to rent the carts with the bike wheels near the park or in Ottawa?

Ditto the last post and can you rent at Opeongo? My current cart is 30 years old (home made) and don't know if I still trust it.

I'm glad Neville brought up this topic. Thanx

Anyone have have pics of their homemade carts ???

The one I'm building is from an old car trailer that was made in Germany many years ago.

It's design was so that it could be stored in a closet (Folds all up small and very light weight) but not to be fooled, if I'm not mistaken it was rated for 600 lb weight capacity.

The wheels are independent and have there own suspension "LOL" should be quite the cart when its done.

The beauty of the wheels is that they come apart with 4 bolts in the center and the rim splits in 2 so changing a tube or appling a patch should only take minutes. As well as the natural clearance that is already there.

Should be a dooooozy lmao

I've used that primex cart for over a decade. 3 times over the Dickson cart trail. Has worked well enough for me. Sure the odd time we've rocked it over. But people have made it out that a 1 inch tree root will upset it or cause big problems. Even drag it over the last km into Dickson ( but with no gear in it ) . For $80 its a good bargain.
As for the original question - of course one should cart. Sure saves some major neck/shoulder pain on a 5 km portage. Allows one to haul in those extra luxuries that make the trip a little more bearable. Like a couple of bubbas. Or some nice t-bones.

heheh - but if you choose too here's a popular one found through a quick Google search - quite popular with the carting set on cart-friendly portages:

http://store.platinumgalleria.com/instep-steel-canoe-carrier-cc100.html

May even be cheaper buying this then renting a cart for a week, plus u get to keep it. Google around for the best prices, likely find some cheap ones on Ebay as well.

Good idea to dump it the last km or so if it's that hairy near the end of the Bonfield walk (never been there myself) - but I'd consider locking it to a tree or (better idea) collapsing it and taking it with you. When I dolly'ed my kayak to Louisa I stashed the little thing in the woods at the Louisa end, but upon my return someone had moved it about 10 meters from where i left it -took me a few minutes to locate it and boy was I anxious. I would've had a long and arduous grind to bring that 18footer out along that 3 km portage. For the piece of mind it provides having it with you I've never left it behind again at the destination lake. Someone could have easily thrown it in the lake, vandalized it or taken it out with them.

We rented them from Opeongo Outfitters

I agree with the comments regarding the limitations of the Wheeleez cart. I've only used it along an old rail bed with the odd root or rock and would not use it for anything else (if for no other reason that I don't want to haul it across those portages where it is not practical). That probably means that personaly I am only going to use it on that Rain-McCraney portage, usually my goal is to travel light and go deeper into the park. But, I expect that over next few years I will see that path a few times as it is a great weekend destination for a young family. Once the kids can haul their fair share its for sale!

SM, Cableas also has a similar one. and one that looks like the wheelez but with bike tires instead.

Thanks Bearcub and Mike for the info, just what i wanted to hear!
Cheers




Mark Rubino
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler - Blog
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

Oops Anon should be Andrew G.