Hi I am new here but love the site and all the reading.. learning lots..But I do have a ? I am going to bring my dog in this year to the interior is there anything I should do diffrent when I go by myself or with the fam.. thanks .....Tom....

Hey Tom,
We've taken our dogs on a # of trips and they love the experience as much as we do. Keep in mind that you are in a provincial park and there are rules about keeping the dogs on leash. Similarly, just as you would in a campground or anywhere else make sure the dogs are under control and respect the fact that not everyone is a dog person.

For one (increasingly long winded) discussion of canoeing with dogs you can take a look at this thread over on paddling.net: http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=wtrip&tid=858657

There was also a fairly recent thread on dogs & life jackets over on CCR: http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=32022&p=297654&hilit=dog+lifejacket#p297654

In terms of general tripping stuff, we pack the dog food in the barrel with the rest of the food and the dogs sleep in the tents with us.

___________________________
No your other left!
www.loonislandoutdoors.com

Hi Tom, Our dog trips along with us most of the time. I second the advice on a PFD for your dog. Although dogs are great swimmers accidents can happen. Also we carry first aid items for her.
As well as a short leash for walking and on portages we bring along a long line used especially at night to keep her close to camp to avoid encounters with wildlife.
We also find island campsites are best if available as she can run free and yet have some boundaries.
Oh ya, and don`t forget doggy friendly bug protection.
Hope you enjoy tripping with your canine companion!

And please don't forget to poop & scoop, and carry it out. Thunderboxes are for humans, not dogs.

We've been on the island site on Rain, and it was a veritable doggy-doo-doo wonderland.

Love dogs, but not when they are jumping up on me, or leaving deposits all over campsites and portage trails.




Barbara

Last August on the Track and Tower trail, the last stretch was quite muddy. And there was a dog with a family that came bounding right through the mud for me, just to say hello. I didn't mind so much; I like dogs anyway, but he got mud all over me.

Taking dogs into the interior by canoe? Whole different ballgame.

So that's what Joan & I smelled all freaking weekend long, years ago when we stayed at Mew Lake!
Jeez..that really ticked us off, no other explanation except doggy doo.






Mark Rubino
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler - Blog
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

I'm one of those one would describe as not a Dog person. And when my kids were young one was terrified by dogs coming too close.
So I respectfully urge that the dog be kept on a leash in the campsite. I once had a particularly uncomfortable time going to a boom box only to find that the dog that was occupying the next campsite felt I was encroaching on its turf.

I love dogs and enjoy seeing them in the park and welcome any that may want to great me on portages.
I hope my next dog will be trained well enough to be canoe safe and stay with me during Algonquin trips...

bow, bow....warf.

Cheers
Mike

THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE INFO ON THE DOG THING

I am going to refrain from providing a long winded response and simply say that I appreciate owners who have taken the time to properly socialize their dogs. I also appreciate owners who have a reasonable amount of control over them and understand that many people, especially children, are uncomfortable around dogs that do not respond to their owners. I am struggling to stop here.. but I will.

A caution that many may not think of is to take the same precautions with dog food that you do with human food. To the other animals in the forest it is all food to them. Leaving bowls of dog food out is an invitation to everything from mice to racoons to bears. The bear issue is the biggest concern from a safety perspective, but having your supply of dog food depleted to zero in the middle of an interior trip because the racoons ate it would be pretty disappointing.
When a wild animal gets a free meal of any kind it will return to the same spot again and again hoping to get another one. The next camper on the site gets a bad experience.

huh

I will try to be clearer. In my experience, most dog owners have not properly socialized their dogs. Nor do they have sufficient control over them that they should be let off their lead. They don't consider that there are actually people who don't wish to be near their dog and, more seriously, may be allergic to dogs. Children, in particular, are quite frightened of dogs, regardless of their size. Children tend to do things to dogs that makes dogs unhappy. Children should not have to know this to avoid being bitten, snapped at or run over.

So if your dog does not come when you call it, sit when you tell it to or down on command, you should keep it on the lead or leave it at home. That's just my opinion and I know dog bashing is not popular but that's been my experience. I have owned dogs all my life by the way, but I have taken the time to ensure they are responsive, well trained and they know not to approach people unless I am near them. I don't trip with a dog.

I have to agree about the socialization part, Fred....some people let their kids run amok, too.
If I could add anything to the good advice that's been posted here, it would be to pack extra food for your dog. Just as you are likely burning more calories than you're used too, so is your dog. If I double a portage, she's probably quadrupling it.
I add about 25% more than our dog usually eats. It's not all that much extra weight, and certainly worth it.

Formerly Foxco

Southern Georgian Bay
Ontario

Great advice from everyone, I know many a camper / canoeist who feel it's not camping unless their 4 legged friend is along. I to bring my dogs with me on my trips, but always respect the park rules.

Keep them on a leash at all times.
Keep them under control, no barking at everything that moves.
and make sure that if they make a mess it's not where someone's going to step, sit or even sleep..

One good point to keeping them on a leash is that often a dog will run off and find some trouble (eg bear) and then when trouble gets to big for them they turn tail and run back to you bringing trouble (eg Bear) right to your toes.

Remember to that you 4 legged friend needs clean water just like you do, keep them away from the beaver ponds.

A life jacket is a must even if they are good swimmers. My one dog got away from me once and I spend the good part of an hour paddling after him stopping to grab him only to have him swim away from me. I also found out the hard way that one of my dogs don't float so it's life jackets for them all now.

Follow the rules and have lots of fun with man's best friend on trip with you.

Randy Mitson
AO Huntsville
http://www.aohuntsville.com
http://www.algonquinoutfitters.com
randym@algonquinoutfitters.com

Good comments Randy!

And FredForest, I don't take any of my dogs camping either. I had my foxhound in a canoe once. Silly toot thought she could walk on the water. It's impossible to haul a struggling 60lb dog back into the canoe!

At times I toy with the idea of taking my sub-sized beagle along on a brief trip. Obviously a leash would be a double-necessity with a hound.

However, I'm still balking on account of these images playing in my mind ... her getting rain-soaked & muddy-pawed and then entering the tent with me .. having her around the stove on her leash .. having her leash attached to my belt while I portage the canoe along a boardwalk, and her lunging for a chipmunk. Yikes!!!

Barry Bridgeford
http://www.AlgonquinAdventures.com
http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

Barry,

I think your instincts with the beagle are right. Good friends of mine took their beagle on a trip in Temagami. On Day 3 the beagle took off after a rabbit at full tilt through the bush. They chased it. When they realized they weren't going to catch up they stopped and realized they had no idea where they were with all the excitement. They got lost. They spent a cold night in the bush figuring the beagle would likely starve to death or at least prevent a bear from starving to death. Next morning the beagle finds them. I'm sure he figured they had decided to change his name while he was gone based on what they were calling him. He promptly trotted off and took them back to the portage where the canoe and all their gear was.. minus the food.. of course.. which was scattered everywhere. Needless to say, that was the end of their trip and the end of tripping with the beagle.

Hey Fred:
Tough lesson for your freind to learn. In general if a dog takes off after game in the woods they will be able to find their way back - particularly the hunting breeds. It might take some time but they follow there own trail scent back. My brother had a brittany and it was famous for taking off while we were hunting. Our best bet was to return to the truck where the dog was ussually already waiting for us.
If your dog takes off lay your coat down where it left from (the masters coat works best)- return in the morning and chances are it will be sleeping on the coat

Please keep it under control at all times. I too have had problems with other's dogs. when I was about 20, I was crossing a portage when this big, hairy mutt came running up the trail at me, unfortunately, I had a 70lb canoe on my shoulders and a 50lb pack on my back. This mutt hit me right in the unmentionables with his snout which knocked me off balance. I went over with the canoe and pack, smashed a hole in the canoe about the size of my fist on a rock, badly sprained my ankle, and got a minor concussion. That ended my trip right then and there. I had to be helped back across the portage, my brother had to come up a week later for the canoe(which was not repairable), and I spent the next 3 weeks in an aircast.
The "master" laughed and said "he just wanted to say hi" He didn't even help me up.
I like well trained dogs that are kept on a leash (I've had 4 of them)but I really , really hate uncontrollable mutts owned by irresponsible idiots.

Carry out dog crap? Are you serious Barbara, no offense I agree whole heartedly about poop and scoop but the fecies can be thrown into the bush, please. lol In that case Barbara do you pick each piece of skin cell that falls off you as you wisp through the park? lol lets get serious. Sounds like a dog hater wether you are or not one.

And as another person pointed out, dog food is food too all animals as a percaution, thats why you don't carry fecies around with you, you just never know what might not like that smell in HIS terrirtory and pay you a visit or track you.

This is hilarious that other post made me laugh so hard, too serious some people , like dog crap doesnt biodegrade and is like Nuclear chemicals.

I'd think some kind of logic should prevail on the issue of poop and scoop regarding dogs.

I figure that if a dog owner keeps their dog on a leash (like they're supposed to) then being aware of where their dog is pooping is a given. It's only when a dog owner allows their dog to run wild that the owner has no idea of where the "deposits" are being made.

So, when a dog owner see their leashed dog making a "deposit" on a trail or portage, then common decency requires that the owner make sure that he/she "re-deposit" it well in off the traveled area and well inland from any waterway .. ideally scooping-out a "cat-hole", depositing the poop and covering it over. The "cat-hole" procedure is what's expected of people who get caught-short on-the-go in the backcountry. I believe we should expect the same responsibility from dog-owners.

Then, there's the around-camp scenario. I'm thinking that disposal of dog poop around camp should combine the same logic as disposing of it on the trail and as disposing of dishwater. Walk far inland from the campsite with the "scooped deposit" (well away from paths, the thunderbox, and run-off areas). Then, make a typical "cat-hole" and cover it over.

Obviously, these procedures require that the dog-owner be properly equipped. Dog-owners are supposed to exercise responsible "scooping" practices back home "in-town". I'm suggesting that there's no reason they can't be expected to adapt those practices when camping in the backcountry.

Barry Bridgeford
http://www.AlgonquinAdventures.com
http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

I dont think I will be takeing any poop home with me. But I will make sure its not all over the trails and campsites. It will be in the bush I will make sure of that. Thanks again guys and gals.

When I went Algonquin on my one and only trip there to date, we had a dog with us. There is no way we going to carrying around a bag of dog poo with us for a whole week. At the same time we never left a mess for other campers.
And as for dogs being a nuisence, sorry but I find human beings more of a problem than dogs are when I go camping.

Gordie

yeah Gordie you the man

Last year I brought one of our dogs with us for the first time camping to AP in Sept, a 3 year old fem ausie sheperd, 30 pds. She's a digger, and keeps herself occupied while on-site by chasing squirrels/chippies, digging and barking. Not good. She's used to roaming free so the leash is a new concept for her, and she shows it. She's great in the boat, just curls up on her custom-size blue foamie in the mid-section or bow for hours at a time.



However I've had 2 tents that were damaged by my dog's claws by stepping on the no-see-um mesh panel or scratching at it to come in/get out. One of my dogs once peed in my tent.
Now that we know her limitations she'll stay home with the wife for all but the late season trips to AP as she's too much responsibility when crowds are about. I love dogs, and love seeing them in the park, even the 'badly' behaved ones that bark/run around/chase seagulls/etc - they always bring a smile to my face. Most breeds that I've seen tripping are the lab/retriever variety - very mellow and well behaved. Rarely have I seen a dog on a leash, even at a campsite, but that doesn't bother me at all. But I know many people who don't share that view and run-ins are inevitable with the non-dog people sect. So make sure your dog is trained and content on the leash, bring a fleece blanket for them to lie down on while in the tent (at nite) and a towel to wipe their feet. If they dig make sure you refill the hole (lol) and I personally just toss their #2's into the bush under leaf litter.

Now I dont know what to do put him in a kennel or take him

Hey, Anonymous

Don't know what it's like up in the Timmins area, but dog shit doesn't decompose any too fast around here.

Getting to a campsite, and having fresh deposits all over the place is none too appealing.

As anyone who has to walk past a popular doggie rest area knows, the stench can be awful, and the stuff lasts for years. And it kills the grass.

I've never yet seen a dog on a leash, or under control, in the Park. Seen everything from poodles to German Shepherds and large hounds. They have all been allowed to run free, barking up a storm, charging towards people. There's usually an owner around somewhere, either ignoring the situation, or calling the dog back in vain.

It's simple, really...

I don't like strangers letting their dogs run loose around my house, and I sure don't like it when they let them use my yard as a toilet. Same goes for when I'm in Algonquin. When I'm in Algonquin, that campsite or the cabin I've rented is my "home". Why do people feel they have the "right" to let their dogs run free in my Algonquin space?

And, no, you're wrong. I'm not a dog-hater. But how on earth you could possibly know anything about me is beyond my understanding.

And why you choose to single out my comments, when others have expressed the same sentiments, well, I find that interesting.



Barbara

Thats why I have cats, can leave them at home unsupervised.

Thatta girl!


Joan

I am realllllyy sorry That I even brought this thing up .. its a great site and now people are starting to fight lets just say I am going to leave him at home Thanks anyway everyone....

Not to worry....everyone here is good natured and not meaning to piss you off or anybody else....

To each their own I think.....


Cheers
Mike....(dog lover)

I would not let the comments on this forum disturb me enough to put my dog in the kennel instead of accompanying me into the park. Dog droppings can easily be disposed of away from the areas people use.

If you know your dog's habits well enough to trust that it will not be lured away by wolves or get in a scrap with a bear, then by all means take on your outings.

Dogs are social (pack) animals and most do not well when taken away from their owners ( ie put in a kennel for a week or two).

As I said do not get upset by the comments. They are just peoples opinions and if you are a responsible dog owner by all means take your dog and enjoy.

He listen real well but if another animalis around like a moose or bear or wolf I dont know how he would react. mmmmmmmm

WOOPS--My appologies-- I read Tom's 12:26 post incorrectly. There was no mention of a kennel in his post.

But my intent is still the same. Whenever I leave the house my dog always wants to come along. He feels that he is a part of the family and always wants to participate in everything we do.

When I go into the park he stays at home with my wife. I don't take him because he is a terrier and will chase everything in sight.

I don't think you should be sorry at all. I think what you've helped bring to the surface is that this is an important issue and one that a lot of people have an opinion on. In my view, it proves that even in the rough and tumble wilderness of Algonquin, there is a certain etiquette, like on a golf course. I think the message is that people expect dog owners to be as responsible in Algonquin Park as they are in the park around the corner from their house. Both are public places and unless we all agree to follow the rules, there will be discord. While some may think the Park is a place to let the dog run free, the Park rules are very clear that is not the case. It's a rule just like the rules around the number of tents per site. It's all with a view to maintaining the park for the greatest number of enthusiasts possible while respecting everyone's right to have fun. To provide some context I am just as upset at seeing a small campsite with 12 tents scattered through the bush around it or to find garbage or to find little piles of human feces with the tell tale white toilet paper cap when I look in the woods around my site. I am as appreciative of a well behaved dog (because I know the time and energy invested by the owner) as I am watching someone portaging out with a bag of garbage. If we all respect the rules everyone's life would be much more peaceful. Choosing to respect some rules and not others is when the trouble starts.

QUOTING:

And please don't forget to poop & scoop, and carry it out. Thunderboxes are for humans, not dogs.

We've been on the island site on Rain, and it was a veritable doggy-doo-doo wonderland.

Love dogs, but not when they are jumping up on me, or leaving deposits all over campsites and portage trails.




Barbara


Sorry, but I don't mean to be an a-hole, but what the big deal if you leave a bit of dog poop in the forest? is it going to change the ecology of the park?

I think many people are taking this env. movement way too far... for pete's sake it phosphorous!!

Factors to consider to help make your decision:

Have you had your dog in a canoe before and how does he/she behave in it (under various conditions e.g. windy versus calm)?
If he/she has never been in a canoe then be sure to do a short 3-4 hour day excursion and assess her behaviour. Does she settle down? Does she try to jump out when you close-in on shore? Does she obey your commands when in canoe? If she never settles down that will help make your decision, or at least force you to try it another day in hopes of a different reaction.

How long are you going for?
A shorter trip is less of a risk if it's your dog's first time - if things go bad early on a longer trip you may have to cut it short. A 2-3 day trip lessens the risk of this, especially if it's your dogs first canoe trip.

Where are you going - lots of portages?
If it's a heavily traveled route with many portages then you will encounter more people. More people implies increased risk of encounters with humans that have issues with dogs.

Have you had him/her in a tent?
If not then test her out by setting up your tent in your backyard/park/wherever and see how she reacts with it. Have her lie down on a blanket in there.

Time of year?
Spring/Fall trips obviously have cooler temps (water and air) and potentially more adverse weather - making it uncomfortable for the dog without some form of overhead cover while canoeing.

Who's going with you?
The more eyes/hands the better to help look after the dog during all scenarios.

I love having my dog along with me alone or with the kids - but you need some answers regarding your dogs behaviour so you have some idea on what to expect with him/her.

According to AP Rules/Regulations concerning dogs in ( http://www.algonquinpark.on.ca/managreg.html ), no mention of taking the poop out when interior camping - just the vague '...clean up after your pet', which can mean anything. As follows:

"Pets must be kept under control at all times, and on a leash not longer than two metres. No pets in swimming areas or on beaches. You must clean up after your pet. Dogs should not be left alone on campsites to bark and disturb other campers. Dog-free areas are designated at Achray, Canisbay Lake, Mew Lake, and Pog Lake campgrounds (see campground maps for details). Pets are not allowed in yurts or on campsites with yurts, in ranger cabins, on the Mizzy Lake Trail, and in public buildings."

You have a very peculiar way of
interpreting things, Anonymous.




Barbara

I am going in july to lake louuse I think thats how you spell it. for 4 days and then out the same way I came in off of rock lake he has been in a tent just not a canoe. going with my wife and 4 kids mmmmmmmmmm verrryyy interesting. and to all . I always clean up after my dog.. just not sure how he is going to react to if we see any moose or bears. He is great around people and other dogs .. so I dont know... God this is hard lol.

How is he around small animals...chipmunks, squirrels, etc?

Has he had experience with skunks, raccoons, porcupines?

How about loons and ducks?

Moose?


You're more likely to encounter those types of
wildlife than bears or wolves.

A large, angry raccoon can be right nasty.




Barbara

he likes cats other dogs plays with them.. but with a moose I dont know....

I don't know anything about your dog (weight/disposition/health/etc) but if/when you take him/her for a test run in the canoe and you're satisfied with the result, then you should strongly consider bringing him/her on your trip. As it's a short trip (4 days), heat of the Summer to enjoy and to Lake Louisa, you should have a great time. Leash him/her on the portage then aim for one of the islands with one site or the isolated (e.g. no neighbors) rocky point sites. Gorgeous lake.

Lots of red squirrels to chase, I mean watch, hehe.

Why aren't dogs allowed on the Mizzy Lake trail?





Barbara

I have a purebred Siberian husky, She heals, walks, stops, turns left turns right, tracks to the side of a trail and ignores people when I ask. She will shift her weight on command in the canoe lt rt or center and she carries her own food, bug spray, leashes etc. She is also friendly good natured and protective. This took YEARS of training, years of being in the bush, and patience. If your dog isnt like others have stated it may just be more stressful for everyone if you bring them along. It can be done but it is almost like taking the kids, plan your route, carries etc accordingly.

As for poop and scoop, Im sorry but everything else poops out there, and most animals will eat it too. You could burn it but I wouldnt want to make that recommendation as I like to cook over the fire from time to time.

If your dog doesnt have the traits above I would urge you to leash them as is the rule and would suggest for training have a medium length lead to the center of your waist. It will prevent throwing you off balance if they bolt and you can control them with your hips without getting tied up. I admitt I do not put a leash on her once away from the acces points, interior where there is less chance of her getting distracted, which belongs in the breaking the rules thread and I apolaise for everyone whos blood just boiled but like I said YEARS of training.

A dog in the bush can be a wonderful experience, and a great canoe compainion. Especially solo or if you get the hibegeebees when things go bump in the night. Hang their food and be mindful of evryone and everything and you will be good.

Unfortunately, for my dog this may be her last year, she just cant do the portaging anymore. 13yrs old and showing the years.

Aww, what a gorgeous dog. I almost want to search up that thread that was either here or on myccr of "you and your four-legged canoe partner". lots of great pictures of people and their dogs enjoying what we're here for

I think he can handle it or I can handle it lol thanks that was great and you have a nice looking dog.. again thanks..

This from Peter Justin with the MNR:

"Dogs are not allowed on the Mizzy Lake Trail because the trail is dedicated to wildlife viewing and wildlife tends to keep away when dogs are present. This regulation is in effect in perpetuity."

Barbara you FLAT OUT said poop and scoop it out of the park, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats extremely overboard, if you noticed I did agree with you on scooping etc, were do you get off hinting through your answer that I dont agree with most of your comments on this, all I said is I AM NOT AND NEVER CARRY FECIES AROUND IN THE WILD WITH ME, thats asking for a very rare but scary situation if you understand the animal world and what fecies means in it. Bears can and will kill dogs and wolves will kill dogs. Thats all I'll say. If I ever encounter one of these animals it better NOT be because I am giving off the aroma of dog crap. I prefer chance encounters that dont come from an animal or animals stalking my scent.

And Barb, I said you Sound like a dog hater wether you ARE OR NOT. Please read carefully, i just laughed so hard when i read carry crap out of the park with you, should I tell the bears and deer when I see them too? lol

Hi Anonymous "66.225.190.121".

I agree with you that redepositing scooped poop under the forest 'duff' away from trails, portages, campsites and waterways is the way to go. Once poop is under organic forest materials, its decomposition is greatly accelerated. That's the very reason that a 'cat hole' is an accepted protocol when one is 'caught short' away from a thunderbox.

As for cussing and digging back into threads to 'dis' a poster, please resist the temptation. Also, over time we've found that the forum is more sociable when we either sign-on or use a consistent signature after our posts.

Thanks.

Barry Bridgeford
http://www.AlgonquinAdventures.com
http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

Hi Tom, I always trip with my dogs. On portages, I use a waist leash, you can pick them up on e-bay at a good price. I keep mine leashed mainly because I don't want to add to the anit-dog sentiment. On my campsite in the interior, I do let them off lesh ( I say them becuse I take one of 4 with me and rotate them depending on the trip). Untill about 4pm, then I leash them mostly because they love to swim (labs) and I don't like having a cold wet dog in my tent with me. If your dog likes to swim take a couple of towels and a pet shamee. They work great for removing most of the water. And my 2 cents, if you dog isn't excellent then leash them. I have had problems with other dog coming in to my site. And I think nothing of taking all four of my dogs car camping and on hiking trails. I can do this because they are well behaved(a lot of training) and don't bark. I can walk all four at once on lead without a proablem. In camp I use an ex-pen, and they are use to this at dog shows. And yes I do poop and scoop while on a campsite, on tails/intrior it depends on the location. I dislike dog poop as much as the next guy and hate it when it is left behind to be stepped in. A funny side note, I was winter camping at Mew Lake and had a group of young kids (18 year olds) who fell in love with my dog, and we stopped to visit a few times. But she pooped just out side of thier campsite and I pulled out the bag and picked it up and one girl says to her friend,"ewwww, do you HAVE to do that when youy have a dog!!" I though(but didn't say),well it's better then leaving it for you to step in
Rose

THANK YOU ROSE THAT WAS GREAT INFO I WILL TAKE HIM WITH ME THIS SUMMER. AND YES HE IS A LAB THANKS .. TOM