Hi all,

I was just reading about Smedley's (spelling sorry) 11 year old daughter - that is quite a story and good on both of you!

I have a 3.5 yr old daughter and was wondering when I can start bringing her along with me on an interior trip. I'm planning a car camping trip mid-August to Kiosk campground for a few days, so that will be her first Park experience.

I also plan on renting a canoe for a couple of days with the intention of getting her out on the water. I know it's all about slowly integrating her to the Park, but was hoping to hear about other's experiences with thier little ones.

Thanks,
Aaron

There is no such thing as "too young".

Folks have taken infants out, long before they were out of diapers.

Check out Rolf Kraiker's website:
http://www.blazingpaddles.ca/

Look for his book "Cradle to Canoe" in bookstores or your local library.

And I do believe Kevin Callan covers the topic of kids and canoeing in his book "The Happy Camper".
http://kevincallan.com/

There's lots of info about the subject on CCR. Long-time member "cheryl" has tons of experience taking her kids canoe-camping, from infancy to teenage years.




Barbara

I agree with Barbara,never too young. Both of my kids started interior trips at age 3 (now almost 4, and 8). We limit ourselves to a one day paddle in and then stay a few nights at one site with day trips. They enjoy the portages because of all the neat things they find along the way (within a reasonable distance). Paddling gets boring after a while (sitting for that long without being able to move much). When planning a route I would bear this in mind. Bring books and small games! If the weather turns nasty it keeps them happy in a tent and out of the rain. At that age everything is a novelty and my kids have always had plenty of fun and stories to tell friends.

What better excuse to get dirty and muddy and play with bugs?

And the kids can have fun, too.

Geez, apparently kids have gone out canoeing BEFORE being born:
http://www.bckc.ca/Trip_Reports/tr_log6_files/tr_log6.htm

Just a couple of threads from CCR:
http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=31787&hilit=11+year+old

http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=28840&start=0&hilit=paddling+infant

And a website page that's kinda old:
http://www.gregcons.com/canoe/kidpaddle.htm

Go to Kevin's website, and check out his speaking schedule. Go to one of his presentations if at all possible. Don't be shy about asking him questions.



Barbara

As Barbara said there is no such thing as too young, at least not for the right trip.

Our youngest was 3 when we did our first family trip in Frontenac. He took it completely in stride, at that age if Mom and Dad said we were doing this then it must be what we do. http://www.loonislandoutdoors.com/TripReports/FrontenacTripReport/FrontenacTrip.htm

Now that said, I have set a minimum age limit of 9 (or Grade 3) for our spring fishing trip. Tripping at the end of April, beginning of May. A couple of considerations for that are that they need to be big enough to keep themselves warm and old enough to believe me when I tell them they need to stay dry.

___________________________
No your other left!
www.loonislandoutdoors.com

I once ran into a gentleman who had two young kids (2-3yrs old) on an interior trip (Jubilee Lake). I always thought that if he got severly injured how would the children make it through. Granted that most routes are more heavily traveled than others. But if they got off the portage onto a side trail it would be all over.

My point is - make sure you have another qualified adult with you on your trip.

My own opinion is that there is a too young age to go - if the baby can't raise their heads then they are too young to go on anything over a few nites on a canoe trip. I've never seen newborns on a trip but if I did I'd feel the parents are taking too much of a chance and being irresponsible, regardless of their tripping experience. My youngest was about 2 when I took her - a perfect age as they can walk and explore and you don't have to carry them around all the time. There is just too many factors that are out of your hands and that risk is greater when it involves canoe camping and similar sports. To me, I see it as the parent being ignorant or they are out for bragging rights.

I've seen people ski down Mt Washington with 6 months old babies in backpack carriers - to me that is just needless foolishness as there is only so much you can control and much out of your control (e.g. another skier bumping you and u end up wiping out). Same deal with canoeing, just different scenarios and risks.

It seems to me that humans have evolved with the capacity to care for their young in environments far less benign than Algonquin Park. As far as I can tell, the question comes down to how knowledgeable, resourceful, and committed the parents are to sharing their camping experience with their children, a question only they can answer. We didnt start taking our children along until we felt they were old enough to shoulder some of their own load on the portages, somewhere around 6-8 years old, depending on their individual physical development.

I have no argument, though, with parents who want to start younger. I recall coming across a couple on Cork Lake carrying a cooler full of formula for an infant they had in tow. All the more power to them (although the cooler idea, personally, leaves me cold).

When you talk about starting young, though, I think our daughter takes the cake. Best she can figure, her first born was conceived on the first trip she took with her husband in the Park .


Mark S.

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

I would only suggest you read on the topic and ask yourself a few questions:

Are you comfortable with the idea of taking your young children with you?
Do you have the canoeing, FA, and campcraft skills to handle anything that may come up?
Is there another adult with sig skills to come along?


Few things that work for me, I have a 3 and 4 yr old

whistle for each
never forget the comfort item, even for the 11 yr old
lots of food, snacks
compass for all, teach them how to use it and encourage them to navigate while canoeing
animal tracks, and tree guides
forget about quietly enjoying that book beside the fire

Just as a note I am compleately comfortable in the bush, my wife and I are both skilled and Paramedics. We will be going on our first true interior camping trip with our girls this yesr. We have done numerous day and weekend trips over the years starting at 16months and only now do we feel comfortable that our children are ready. Sleeping in tents etc. Every child will be different you just have to gauge if they are ready or not. You can expose them closer to home just the same and still have an escape route.

Whatever you decide enjoy yourself

good spots for the first time Bruce lake, Delano, Little Island. No big water paddling, short portages and close to escape. Oh yeah and not to many other campsites of people to disturb in the middle of the night.

Yup Barb funny enough both my girls went canoeing in the interior before birth

Chris

Hmmmm....maybe there's something in all that fresh air. I've heard lots of stories of "camping conceptions"! LOL

The one thing that is advised over and over is that you will need to slow down to "kid speed". Be prepared for lots of unplanned exploring, lots of questions. Not such a bad thing, I think. You get to see things from a fresh perspective that you might otherwise not consider the least bit interesting.

Take crayons and such. Little kids are great at recording their experiences.

A great site is the Get to Know Program.
http://www.gettoknow.ca/

go to this page, and check out the Lesson Plans and Observation Templates:
http://www.gettoknow.ca/en/lessons/


Choosing a kid-friendly campsite in the interior can be a challenge. Perhaps folks who are helping with Barry's Portage and Campsite Inventory Project might keep this in mind when they are recording their observations.

I think starting kids out when they are young, but old enough to participate in and appreciate the experience, and hopefully haven't picked up any unfounded fears from adults, is a great way to ensure that the passion for the environment is passed on to future generations.



Barbara

Every year this issue is raised - canoeing/camping with kids: where to go, what activities works best, what u shouldn't do, what to expect, etc. If you have some time look through this thread it has many good ideas, stories, funny anecdotes, suggestions, etc on how to trip safely with young children:

http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=15345

I don't think there is such a thing as too young. Some of my earliest memories include sitting in the middle of the canoe as my parents paddled.

Safety issues are paramount (which is why I never took my children anywhere but Opeongo when they were ten), why take little kids on a trip they won't even remember because they're too young?

I took my 3 and 5 year old kids interior last august, I left the one year old at home. two very short portages, across a pair of small lakes. They loved every minute and still talk about it and ask when we can go back.

Here's how i decided if they were ready.

* I took a few canoe trips down the local river, making each one longer than the previous.
* we spent a few nights in the tent in the back yard, cooking on an open fire.

when they were properly instructed & comfortable around a flame, and could sit and stay seated in a canoe for a few hours at a time, i knew they were ready.

It was a good trip. like any trip it had it's hiccups, but for a first family interior trip it was fine. only real issue i had was keeping my kids in the sleeping bags at night. they are not still sleepers and "wandered" around the tent as they slept. I woke up a few times during the night ti put them back into their bags as they slept.

One thing I might suggest is staying on a island. My parents brought me when I was very young to Opeongo and by staying on an island didn't have to worry about me wandering off too far.

mikE

Last summer we took our 6 month old on her first interior trip. We kept it simple, an island site with one portage to get to it. We had 1 pack for us, 1 pack for food and 1 large pack for her! It was certainly a different experience but well worth it. Keep it simple, plan for everything and enjoy it.

Thanks all for the great advice.

I'm the outdoorsy one, my wife not so much, but she doesn't mind taging along on simple trips.
So I'm hoping that my daugher will become my favourite tripping partner.

At the momment I believe that she is too young and not ready for an interior trip yet. We have 5 days planned at Kiosk campground on "Robichaud Point" in the middle of August. I'm going to rent a canoe and do some day trips around Kiosk Lake, and I'm hoping to use that time to teach her about canoeing, wildlife viewing, and maybe even try a small portage.

But that is still 6 months away - argh I hate cabin fever!

Take care all,
Aaron

I intended to respond to Pete's post earlier today, but my internet went out for a while.
Pete, you are a few steps ahead of what I'm planning on doing with my 2- and 4-year-old girls. We did a 1/2-day river trip (no portages) close to home, which the girls fully enjoyed. This year, we plan on at least one longer trip, and maybe an additional overnight trip farther from home. Added in will be as much camping at my parents' farm as possible. I got a late start to Algonquin tripping (21), so as long as they get to the park before I did, I'll be satisfied.
Aaron, my wife was my best tripping partner before kids, but she's not as into it now. Like you, I hope that in the future my kids will be nagging me to take them to AP!

Check out my post from awhile back.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/352882/message/1217392401/Trip+Report

Matt

"There is more to life than canoeing but who really cares?" author unknown

Its hard to generalize about the appropriate age to take kids out canoeing.

FN people always had their babies on them. Their outdoors was not foreign to them.

We who do not live in the outdoors are less comfortable. With increasing urbanization, probably getting less so each year.

I cannot visualize anyone skiing all the down Mt. Washington with a baby..the rockpile has very little snow at the top, the gullies are quite steep. The Auto Road has limited skiing but from Halfway House is fine for skiing with or without baby(there are no major dropoffs and its treed). Sherburne trail can be fine for those again comfortable with it.

As for camping I recommend all kids wear their PFDs at all times unless in the tent.

I think My son probably has the modern day record for youngest to trip into the interior. He was 3 days old on his first trip. It was just a couple nighter into North Depot Lake. I think some people probably thought we were irresponsible parents. But Jackson was our second child, Leslie was recovering nicely and breastfeeding was going well. We were only going to a couple hours from the access point and probably less than 5 hours from a hospital. The trip was easy, because at that age they don't much. Tripping with a 6 month to 2 year old is much more difficult.

The more irresponsible trip was the 10 day trip to Killarney a month earlier when Leslie was 8 months pregnant. There were some times we were at least 2 days tripping from an access point :-O

I don't know what I was thinking. I guess I was younger and more confident in my baby delivery skills

Mike.

Thanks for all the great advice. My wife will be giving birth to our first child in a few weeks and I have been wondering the same question. I really don't want to be stuck in the city for the entire summer so I was hoping to go on a hiking trip in APP in September. Some have even brought their 6-month-old on an interior trip! I don't know if we'll be able to pull this off but it will something we can definitely look forward to =)

After reading this post I will certainly go out on more hiking trips this summer and camp in our own backyard this summer to see how things go. Also, I will try to get more safety training just in case we are able to pull it off. Canoeing in a local river is a great way to get them accustomed to the water.

Ryan.

--
www.ryanandpeggy.com

I came across this article and I thought I would share. Maybe it could help you. I don't have kids so I never read it.

http://www.outdooradventurecanada.com/canoeing.htm



Gordie

Aaron..

did you by any chance attend UW??

Found this on a disk the other day, I have been sorting our pics both digital and print. Man im glad for the date on digitals!

She was almost three here and even holding the paddle right

this little lady four likes to look for rocks, not to soon for us to avoid them but.......


Chris

Hey algoalex,

UW meaning University of Waterloo, NO; I attended Brock U.
But I did have several friends that went to Waterloo, mainly in the accounting/math programs.

Chris - those are great pics of your daughters, sure looks like their having fun too!

I am quite looking forward to getting the Robichaud family acquainted with the Park this summer.

Take care,
Aaron