Hi all,

I'm coming to AP in the autumn for the first time, from the UK, and really looking forward to it. We have got hold of the AP map and have downloaded the brilliant map from this site.

We've now booked out flights and are getting the nitty gritty details sorted. One problem I have found is how to get to Whitney, our departure point of choice. Does anyone know if there is a bus route to Whitney, or a car rental or any other options for getting to Whitney. ANy help would be much appreciated.


Cheers



Patrick

Hey Patrick,

There's no bus to Whitney. If you want to go by bus, you'll need to go to Huntsville and then take the Hammond Transportation bus into the park


Jeff

--

Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry - abrweb.ca

My Algonquin Park Map - Accurate, Detailed, Free - Version 2.0!

Patrick: car rentals shouldn't be a problem for you, either in Toronto (I assume you're coming through Pearson) or Huntsville, if you take a shuttle bus or the Northland up from the GTA.

Keep asking any questions you might have; there's plenty of people here who'll lend a hand.

There isn't a bus route to Whitney as stated, but there is a bus that stops in Maynooth, about a 30 minute drive from Whitney (there might be a shuttle you could get to the park). I took a quick look at the bus schedule It runs only certain days in the week (Sun, Wed, and Fri) and it is about $65 per person. it would likely be a better idea to rent a car for the time of your trip.

Patrick--you need to give more information about yourself such as your camping/canoeing background and what equipment you will bring with you. There are many outfitters in the area that are very qualified to make your adventure to the wilds of Algonquin an enjoyable experience.

Hi All,

We are experienced hikers/climbers/mountaineers with all our own camping equipment which we will be travelling with.

I'll be very honest and say that we have little canoeing experience beyond some river/lake canoeing in Europe when we were much, much younger. But in the best tradition of adventure we are planning a 12/14 day trip in the park at the end of August and early September before heading back to Toronto.

We had been planning to depart from Opeongo Outfitters which I thought were based in/near Whitney but looking more closely I'm not so sure. Our major issue is that we don't want to hire a car and have to leave it for two weeks before getting back. I'm thinking that an outfitter nearer the West entrance may be more sensible and cheaper with cabs/transport from Huntsville.

One more question would be do any outfitters hire barrels out. Our general camping/hiking gear will go in our regular packs but a lot of the food will need to go in another bag or some sort and a barrel seemed like a plan.

Hope this is a little more helpful

Patrick

Hi Patrick check out my website, if you email me, I can arrange to shuttle you to and from Whitney. Info@madmusher.com

Opeongo Outfitters are located in Whitney and they have a water taxi service on Opeongo Lake as does Algonquin Outfitters.

You may want to consider Algonquin Outfitters. They have a base in Huntsville which you can get to very easily by bus from Toronto and they also have a base on Opeongo lake(near Whitney) that they could shuttle you out to where you could get your trip started. They also run canoe shuttles from huntsville to anywhere in the park you would like as long as you are renting canoes from them.

www.algonquinoutfitters.com

full disclosure - I worked for AO about 10 years ago when I was in University(but I don't think any of the other outfitters could offer this shuttle service out of huntsville).

James

Patrick, you mentionned that you have little canoing experience and that it was a long ago...so my advice to you would be to travel on the smaller lakes and/or on the creeks and small rivers. Avoid the big lakes on windy days.

Question? Why don't you start out and end your trip at Whitney #13 enterance? If you headed west across the park then north up past Canoe Lakes and the Portage store (real nice to get a resteraunt meal after 3-4 days in the brush and then continue north east to Opeango and then back to Whitney. You could also do the loop in the other direction where it will take you about 10 days to get to Canoe lake. This should be a great trip if the weather cooperates

Thanks Everyone,


Sound advice which we will follow.

Bill - interestingly that was much the same as the trip we had in mind although we did, perhaps naively, assume we would go from Whitney to Canoe Lakes in a couple of days rather than 3-4. Obviously as beginners this was plucking times and distances out of thin air.

I would be interested in people's estimates of a trip that took in the following route;

Whitney - Canoe Lake - Big Trout Lake - Burntroot Lake - Nipissing River - Brent - Catfish Lake - Hogan Lkae - Big Crow Lake - Opeongo Lake - Whitney

I know this is a long route and at the moment is only under consideration.


Cheers

Patrick

That's a heck of a trip. It sounds spectacular, but I don't think it can be done in 12-14 days.

Just looking at my pdf map, I think it would take no less than 3 days to get to Canoe from Whitney. Even with good paddlers and single portaging, canoe lake is 40K away, and you're traveling over lakes like Galliery and possibly LOTR or Smoke, where with a little wind you're bogged down for the days.

For the rest of the trip I figure it will take 2 days to get to Big Trout, 1 Day to get to Burntroot, 2 Days to get to Cedar via the Nip, 2 days to Hogan via the Petawawa and Manta, 2 days to get to Opeongo, a full day to cross Opeongo if you don't take a shuttle, and 3 days to get back to Whitney. That's 16 days, with no rests, for two paddlers that can put 15-25K away a day. Plus, factor in rain, a windbound day or two, and you're looking at what could be a 21 day trip easy.

I really like your itinerary though. Keep trying to find a shuttle to Canoe or Opeongo (sorry, can't help you there) because the loop from Canoe to Opeongo wold be a lot more manageable if you can devote 14 days to it.

Just my opinion.

Tenzing,


Thanks for your input. It's good to get some opinions (or is that a reality check) on what are essentially guesses. We certainly hadn't figured on being camp-bound due to strong winds. We've now factored in two days of general rest and relaxation, two days camp bound in case of bad weather which gives us 10 days of paddling to sort out a route from the Canoe Lake and around to Opeongo and back again.

Cheers


Patrick

Patrick, if you really want to enjoy Algonquin, try not to over do it. You also have to take in consideration that you have to put up and take down camp which take's time, portaging can be a real pain after a few days and slow you down. On travel days you have to stop to eat and pump water...enough water on those hot days.

My twin brother and I crossed the park from west to east and travelled 10 straight days {9 nights}, on some of the days we did not have much energy left, and we were seasonned veterans of Algonquin. Remember, do not over do it or you won't enjoy it.

Have fun.

Dano is right. I think you might want to scale back the amount of portaging for your first canoe adventure.

I'm a little concerned that you weren't aware of weather conditions that may cause disruptions in your trip planning. I'm concerned that the physical scale of distances and size of lakes perhaps hasn't made the proper impression, either.

There are a lot of options that perhaps you haven't considered. There are 29 access points, all have varying degrees of outfitters, etc serving them.

To begin, check out the trip reports on this site.

Another thing to consider is your accommodations. Bus service is going to be spotty at the best of times, and you might be better off staying at a b&b or a hostel like the Madmusher or the Wolf Den, or perhaps Algonquin Outfitter's Oxtongue Lake location. That way, your hosts will be aware of your situation, and maybe provide other transportation options. Even a local motel may be able to provide you with transportation assistance, if they are made aware of the need ahead of time.

There is a page on the Algonquin Park site that lists "services". Take a scroll through the listings under "outfitters" and under "guided trips and tours".

http://www.algonquinpark.on.ca/service.html

Here's a handy little tool that can be of some assistance. It's not the be-all and end-all, but it can provide a clue as to the amount of time this canoe tripping can involve.
http://www.myccr.com/TimeCalculator.php




Barbara

Gotta agree with Dano. Take time to smell the flowers and such.

As far as distances are concerned, no one can tell you how far you can go in a day, it's way to subjective and conditional. You should probably try to get in a bot this summer and paddle a bit, and try to figure out how far you can go in a day comfortably. Try to find a way to portage a bit. Take that distance and figure you will be able to go about 75% when you're fully loaded in the park.

My suggestion would be to read the triplogs on this site. Check out Markus's website markinthepark.com. Look at the pictures, read the descriptions. Jot down the things you want to see badly, and then design your trip around them.

If you've done this already and have settled on the route you already described, I would suggest a water taxi for Opeongo. It will give you two extra days to explore (trust me, you will do enough paddling anyways) A loop from Opeongo to Merchant to Big Trout to Burntroot to Catfish to Hogan to Big Crow to Opeongo would be very manageable. At that rate you'd be moving about 7KM per day, with plenty of days to explore. There are a lot of historical artifacts to check out, a fire tower to climb, incredible cliffs and trees and lakes and rapids to see. It's a great representation of the park, and with your time table, you'll be able to enjoy it.

Good luck.

Although flogging a horse here, I concur with the others that your plan is somewhat ambitious.

I dont doubt your physical shape, but the paddling time, and portaging (single or double carry) can be a big variable over a long trip. Also the time of year, and water levels can have a big impact, depending on the areas you are planning on going. Some lakes dont look so big, until you are in a canoe facing a stong headwind or a storm blows in on you.

Curious, are you just a twosome going in 1 canoe, or a few people in 2 or more canoes. I assume you have considered how to fit of all your gear into the canoe(s)?

I also must agree that time to stop and smell the roses is well worth it. Try not to think of the trip as a highway distance covering endeavour. Allow time to explore the shore, and marshes for wildlife etc. once in a while.

You have done well to find this site, and Jeffs map. I encourage you to check out the trip logs, and use that to help judge time/distance per day thing. And of course asking lots of questions. This site and other canoe forum sites have lots of people with tons of knowledge and experience. Nobody here wants anyone to come over with a plan to experience Algonquin, and have it ruined by underestimating.

Of course you now know, that a lot of people will be looking forward to a wonderful trip report, when all is said and done

Greg

Hi Patrick,

The beginning of your route, from Access#13 to Canoe Lake, is something I honestly don't think you'll enjoy.
If you're coming to Algonquin Park to experience the 'wilds', that leg of your trip might be a bit of an eye-sore.
You'd be travelling thru many lakes with cottages and resorts on them, not to mention you'd be paralleling a hi-way on one lake and probably hearing it on a few others then crossing it to get to Canoe Lake.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with this part of your route, I just think that for someone to come all this way, and to paddle among cottages is not what Algonquin is all about.
Dano and others are right, with factors to consider such as wind, and weather, you might want to trim your ambitions a little bit, and slow down to enjoy what you came to experience.
A good plan is to move everyday for a few days then have a rest day.



Mark Rubino
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler - Blog
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

If you can get hold of Randy Mitson at Algonquin Outfitters he may be able to help you.
He posts here from time to time.

Patrick: while I can't speak for canoe routes as the others have, you noted that you were into hiking too. If an outfitter can get you out there, or if you have a spare day at the end of the trip and can just rent a car, try one or two of the hiking trails in the corridor. Late August-September is a great time of year for it. Personally I recommend the Centennial Ridges trail. The Park rates it as difficult; I can see why, but I don't find it difficult personally. It's a ten kilometer loop, supposed to take six hours (depending on your pace), and the view from the last bluff is priceless.

I agree with Marcus that part of Galeairy , Smoke, and Canoe are cabin lakes with some motorboats. They are also fairly large lakes where wind can be a definite problem. The reason I suggested this route is that after the first 3 to 4 days you should have a much better idea of your progress and at the ranger station on Canoe lake you could adjust your planned route to match the experiences of the previous days. I know from experience and I think most AAers will agree that the lakes in the park are really much larger that they would seem when planning for them on a map. I personally like to take my voyaging real slow but others want to do 20 to 30 KM a day. See the previous post (Getting Ready) At this rate they could complete this route in about 8 to 9 days. For me, if I want more challenge I select some of the Black line routes in the park. This is where the most remoteness and isolation are to be found. It is also the more difficult and time consuming places to get to. What I am suggesting is that you have to find your own level of comfort and challenge that is right for you. I know of no better way than to plan a trip within a trip so you can adjust the trip after a few days rather than planning a to ambitious of a trip that forces to much travel and not enough time to explore the wonders around you

Hi, Patrick.
I've been following this thread right from the start, but refrained from adding to it until now. I wanted to second dano's first post as soon as I read it. The most recent post, mentioning a thread I started, convinced me to join in. I do like to cover longer distances, as it seems you are planning on doing as well. However, please do take into consideration the sage advice on this thread from the other members. Most of them are far more experienced than me. I cringed when I read that you planned to go west for the first 3 or 4 days of your trip. Headwinds on long lakes are not fun! My trip for this August is planned intentionally to avoid traveling into the wind. It saps your energy and gets old very quickly. There are so many factors already mentioned that you need to consider. I do everything I can to be ready for the next Algonquin trip, but I base my planning on previous experiences. I think you're getting the idea from all of these helpful posts, so I'll shut up now.

I look forward to swapping trip reports in the fall!

Rory

One final point about renting a car:

You are looking at about $60 per day for the rental and insurance. I don't know the exact exchange rates, but that works out to about £34 or 36 per day.

I don't know what your budget is like for this trip, but I can't help but think this would inflate your cost unnecessarily, especially if the car is just going to be sitting in some parking lot for the majority of the time.

Wow...

Thanks everyone for you advice, all of it has been useful. Based on the advice and having read lots of the trip reports we've changed out plan's considerably. We're not going to be hiring a car, too spendy and just a waste of money with it sitting there for a couple of weeks. Travelling to Huntsville on the train and visiting Algonquin Outfitters.

Depart Access 5 - Canoe lake - Tom Thomson - McIntosh Lake - White Trout Lake - Big Trout Lake - Burntroot Lake - Nipissing River - Brent.

Time: 8 days up to Brent including rest/bad weather days.

Quick beer and a resupply before return leg, can you get beer at the Brent Store?

Brent - Catfish L - Sunfish L - Hogan L - Big Crow L - Little Crow L - Proulx L - Opeongo

8 days back to Access 11 including rest/bad weather days.

I'm sure it's going to be quite a challenge but should be an amazing experience. Fingers crossed.


Thanks again for all you advice. We're off to book our flight and camp permits.

Patrick

hi Patrick,

That is a lovely route.
No beer at Brent as far as I know!

If I might make a few suggestions/observations;
McIntosh is a gorgeous Lake, and you can get here in one long day.
You might want to stay there for an extra day, by pushing onto it the first night.
However if you want to take the previously suggested relaxed approach, then TT, and then McIntosh the next is fine.

White Trout Lake and Big Trout Lake are right next to each other, camping on one and the other, your trip for that day will be probably be only an hour, less than two, a very short day. Maybe Camping on one lake 2 days, will give you a chance to explore, instead of having to take camp down 2 days in a row, for just an hour's+ paddle.
Don't stay on little Crow, crappie campsites, and it's like 20 minutes from Big Crow...might as well spend the extra nigh ton Big Crow Or Proulx.

Coming out @ Opoengo is nice...not having to do a loop is handy.
Patrick you'll be passing through some of the best areas of Algonquin Park. nice route!
May the wind be at your back and the sun shine down upon you.



Mark Rubino
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler - Blog
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

Markus,

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. We were going to start looking at which lakes were best to stay on but you've beaten us to it!

Quick question - We were thinking of staying in a Rangers hut for a couple of days on the return leg, we've identified the Big Crow lake Rangers Hut but would be interested in anyones opinions/experiences.

Cheers

Patrick

Patrick,

About 8-10 years ago we befriended some German campers at Mew Lake. We were staying in one of the yurts and they roughed it out in a tent in -25C weather. After a couple of shots of Yukon Jack, I asked them how they got to the park since I didn't see any car as such. Their answer was that they paid some taxi driver $150 from Huntsville to Mew Lake, I found that to be a bit extreme. Patrick, whatever you do get a firm price for each leg of the trip before committing, it's probably best to avoid taxis and stick with the outfitters - I just wanted to add this little story in there.

Harry

As far as good places to stay, Burntroot and Catfish are my favorite lakes because of all the nooks and crannies. Both, especially Catfish, have spectacular campsites.

One word of advice. Try to plan your trip so that you are crossing the big lakes as early as possible. The lakes get rougher as it gets later. Especially keep this in mind when you are crossing Cedar to Brent, as you'll come out of the Nip and will be completely exposed to the wind.

Good luck. I wish I had this much time to go tripping this summer.

The big crow cabin is really nice. One big room, and two bedrooms with a woodstove and a kitchen table. It has a spring for nice cold water a short walk away that is very refreshing(although it is in poor condition and I have been considering going in with some tools to fix it this summer). Directly behind is the old fire tower with a short(but very steep)climb to the top for a great view from the cliff, the tower has the ladder removed to discourage climbing. I've stayed here a few times and enjoy it every time.