Hi,
I'm getting ready to leave early next week on an AP loop (Opeongo-Proulx-Big Crow-Lavieille-Dickson-Opeongo), and was wondering if anybody has experience with the rapids on the Crow River at this time of the year. Are some of them runnable at current water levels? Of course we would scout before attempting any, but I was just wondering if scouting is even worth doing or whether we shouldn't even bother and just portage.
Thanks!
Jakk

I did go down the river in 2002, but it was at low water conditions. Many, many rocks were exposed and even had to pull the canoe on navigable waters. If possible, I would portage instead of risking getting wet and cold.

Hey Jakk,

I cannot recommend skipping a portage based upon the risks involved but I can report that two years ago, almost to the day, we did this route and found the following:

P240 - there's a short 40 meter path that goes right back down to the river below the dam and allows for re-entry. Just a couple low spots then just some odd rocks here and there that we easily avoided.

P155 - we ran this one completely and found a good channel around the left hand side of the first bend, as I recall. It was a bit of a blind turn and if there's a strainer there now it could be challenging.

P1220 - didn't even try this one...too long to scout plus there were a couple of canoes pulled up with a party obviously fishing the rapids below so we just hiked it. One big dip and one road crossing on this portage.

P385 - We also carried this one after a brief survey of the situation.

170, 205 & 110 - we were able to easily glide through all of these runs with good spring water conditions.

We were in an aluminum canoe that can take some hard hits so we weren't being mindful of avoiding rock scrapes and such. If I were in an expensive kevlar I might think twice about it.

One of the most scenic and pleasantly laid out campsites we found was among the batch of 5 sites that occupy the narrows area between Crow Bay and Lavieille. The site that is on the southern tip of the northern arm of land that comes out to form the narrows has good cover, good landing, good tenting areas, good thunderbox, good stargazing spots, and, most importantly, you will have access to sheltered water no matter which way the wind is blowing so you can always get out and explore. Usually, it takes a good 4-6 hours to get down from Big Crow to Lavieille and it's a pleasant place to end that day.

It never hurts to wet a line on the way down the Crow as well...you may be rewarded with a colorful specimen!

Did the rapids May 5 this year.Lots of water,so it's fast.We were in plastic kayaks an ran most of them(except the 1220m and385m).Even with prescouting..we hit some rocks.I wouldn't attempt it in a kevlar canoe..unless you can read the water good because it could be a long wet walk back out.By the time you scout and prepare you could have probably done the portage unharmed.

We ran the last two on Friday the 15th. We should have run all three. The 110 was a bit bumpy but the portage is so close and the current was so strong we were pulled in. No problems. 16" Kevlar Prospector. 2 averagely skilled (at best) guys in White Water.

Thanks for all the input guys. We just got back, and ended up doing exactly what PaPaddler did: ran all of P240 after the dam, all of P155, neither P1220 nor P385, and all three of P170, P205, P110. I had a complete novice bow paddler (I am at best only mildly skilled in white water myself), and a KevlarFusion Swift Kipawa. At the current water level none ended up posing any problem (we did scout everything of course, and both P1220 and P385 seemed way out of skill range), but of course in other situations things may well be different. At the time we ran them, P240, P155 and P170 were essentially just riffles. P205 looked the trickiest, but there was a good channel through.

We enjoyed the campsite PaPaddler recommended between Crow Bay and Lavieille, though after a very rainy day (last tuesday) we were just happy to get a good fire going.

Jakk,

Glad to hear you made it through and back (and that my memory/directions weren't out of whack). That's a nice stretch of river in the spring when you can shorten the trip by skipping a couple portages. That campsite is one of my favorites for location, views, layout, etc. It's just s pleasant setting and spacious and comfortable. It's also a nostalgic one for me as it was the first campsite I ever stayed at as a 10 year old in 1977 with my dad.

Any fishing? Bugs? Crowds? Pictures?

Hey Jakk and PaPaddler,

I just returned last night from a 13 day trip that took me down that section of the Crow. There were three canoes, the 17 ft Souris River epoxy kevlar boat George and I rent every year from Opeongo in Whitney and a 3-man 17.5 ft Scott Kevlar. The third was a fibre glass tank that two of the lads haul through the bush every year.

George and I have been running the 1220 for a few years now and this year we ran our canoe down first, walked back and then took the three man boat down with relative ease. The put in is just on river left from the portage and the toughest part of this is the first three hundred metres or so. You get pushed river left as soon as you start - you need to be left but also need to heed the left bank. There are a couple of other tricky turns, some rocks and some overhanging trees, but it is a good run for capable paddlers in a decent boat. There was a blow-down about two-thirds of the way down which we had to shimmy over, but the trees have thinned and dropped and we paddled right over this year and it was a nice run to the end.

We also ran the 385, but because we were concerned about the front dipping too much on the drop at the top of the sluice, we emptied the boats and George took the Souris boat and I ran the 3-man Scott, sitting in the middle seat. It was a riot! There was a little obstruction right at the drop and I stayed left, came over the drop, stayed left again, easily dodged a couple of rocks, paddled hard through some standing waves and hard again through the large diagonal standing wave at the large flat rock in the middle. The rest of the way down was very easy and it was a fun ride.

Now, here is the really IMPORTANT part!! I would never suggest to anyone that you run these rapids. Not after what happened last year. We met with two guys going across Big Crow as fast as they could paddle, hell bent for the top of Lavieille. They asked if the rapids were runnable. I gave almost the exact info Pa did but told them that we ran the 1220 but did not recommend running the 385. I told them what I know about the 1220 but also told them George and I are very comfortable in a boat together, have done it before and it can get a little dicey. Off they went, and after thinking about what I had told them I called them back and stressed to them that the 1220 can be a tough go. The next day we ran into those same two on the Crow River campsite. They had tipped in the first 50 metres of the 1220, had to line their boat much of the way down the rapids, in the cold water, collecting gear and equipment along the way, had only one paddle and lost a bunch of gear. Their clothes, sleeping bags and tents were in green garbage bags and everything got wet except one pair of pants and one shirt, which they shared. They made it to the Crow River campsite, built a fire and drank whiskey all night until they passed out, woke up at 4:00 AM, freezing, built another fire and kept the fire going until morning. They eventually dried out. They never made it to Lavieille, but in my mind, they were lucky to make it home.

Since then, if asked, as Jakk did, I will tell people my experience with rapids, but will not recommend to anyone that they run rapids. When we make decisions to run rapids there are a lot of things to consider - time of day, weather conditions, water temperature, air temperature, boat load, boat maneuverability, campsite accessibility, gear, waterproofing, and on and on, none of which have anything to do with the actual skill level of the paddlers. I took my third whitewater canoe course at Palmer Rapids a week before the trip this year.

And here is the funny part. After we ran the 385, we moved on to the next portages, the ones that most will agree, are easy to run. I think it was the 205, it had the dead cedar that comes out from river right. You get pushed that way and the bow man needs to do a pretty good draw left to keep from getting too close to the tree. As stated there are some big bumps to avoid along the way, with the biggest bump about two inches below the surface at the end of the portage, just when you think you have finished and are relaxing your watch. We ran it and were heading up to the top to run the other boats down when the two lads in the "tank" thought they could get through. The bow man ducked under the tree but their canoe cart got caught and flipped the boat. They had dry sacs and only lost a tarp and a net, but it is another example of how things can quickly change when you are in the bush.

BTW, PaPaddler, thanks for the tip from last year. Just so happens while casting for specks (which were plentiful) I caught a 6-7 lb laker. Very cool and I hope you enjoyed my half of our little exchange.

Might be posting a few pics and a little report once I get settled but I gotta wonder if it is worth it after the b.s. that has been going on since I have been away.

Coach

Coach,

Welcome back!

I had reservations responding to Jakk but decided to offer some input since it sounded like he was planning on skipping some portages anyways and I thought that maybe I could steer him away from running the hardest whitewater. It's always a double-edged sword...you'd like to be helpful but you don't want to give advice that will put someone in harm's way.

That's great to hear of your nice laker and I'd love to see some photos and hear of your many days in the park. There's so much good information that posters on this board can offer but I just don't get involved in the fray anymore over the hot-button issues like global warming, eating fish, etc. I read the stuff and often think to myself "those youngsters will learn someday what really matters". Maybe they'll learn and maybe they won't but my time on this planet is limited and I don't want to waste it on unproductive baloney (or BS as you so accurately put it).

I can tell you that the real satisfaction and joy comes from messages like yours and Jakk's. When I hear that information I provided helped someone get a little more out of their experience it really makes my day. It means I did a good thing and that is tremendously satisfying. Do a good thing and share that feeling!

Hey Coach and PaPadler,

Many thanks for your follow-up and comments on running the rapids. PaPaddler's post was very helpful for us, but I also fully understand both your hesitance when it comes to giving advice on running rapids when you have no idea whom you are talking to.

My own canoe tripping background is perhaps a little atypical: other then a flatwater trip in Sweden when I was 14, I had only ever even been in a canoe on one other trip, but that was a self-guided descent of the Nahanni in the NWT. I completely agree with what Coach stated: on wilderness trips like the northern rivers, but equally applicable to the interior of APP, it is all about having good judgement, being aware of how quickly a pleasant trip can turn into a serious situation, far away from help. We were happy with the calls we made (portaging 1220 and 385 but running the other rapids on the Crow, not paddling Opeongo in strong winds), but we were also keen to learn more - a 16 foot Kevlar Kipawa is a different beast from the 18 foot royalex canoes I had used before. I was also happy with the habit from the Nahanni to always have everything dry-bagged and leashed-in, including a spare paddle. If we would have dunked we wouldn't have lost any gear.

PaPadler, my bow paddler was in charge of the pics, if I get around I'll try posting some later. We had great weather last Monday (May 18), but it was rainy and fairly cold on Tuesday going down the Crow River. Wednesday was warm and sunny but windy in the afternoon, which gave us quite a workout crossing Dickson Lake. We camped on the island closest to the portage, another great site. We did the Dickson-Bonfield portage on Thursday and had hoped to go out that day, but there was just too much wind and big breaking caps on Opeongo, so we stayed put one more night and paddled out early Friday morning. The blackfly situation was much better then I had feared, I guess largely because of the frost (and snow) the previous weekend. They did start to come out though on Thursday night, and I would guess it is pretty bad by now. We saw a moose cow and calf on Little Crow Lake, but no wildlife coming down the Crow river. There is a beaver family in the little pond just north of the start of the cart trail on the East arm of Opeongo that seemed very willing to be photographed. All in all we saw about 15 people in 5 days. Not a bad introduction to the park! Our one regret was not fishing, we'll fix that next time. We were pretty happy with our packing strategy, (one person big pack + small daypack, one person medium sized backpack with all the light stuff - sleeping bags and pads, down jackets - and the canoe), allowing us to do all the portages in one go.

We also used printouts of topo maps from www.algonquinmap.com, which I found very helpful. Due to time restrains we really wanted to get out on Friday, and from the Opeongo-Wright portage we could simply have hiked out over the logging roads to go get a watertaxi if the wind would still have been too strong. As logging roads etc are not indicated on the Friends of Algonquin Canoe Routes map we wouldn't have known about that option if we didn't have the topo maps with us, in my opinion a clear advantage.

Jakk