Hi everyone,
I have recently fallen in love with Algonquin Park and with that being said i would like to invest in a canoe before i spend hundreds of dollars on rentals. I would like a canoe that is big enough for two people but stable enough for going out on solo trips. After looking at many websites i know that i will be safe with a 16 foot kevlar, but my main problem is that i don't know which company to go with.

After reading many of the posts on the AA forums i figured that someone here might be able to help narrow down companies so that i can enjoy Algonquin from the comfort of my own canoe

I am also open to looking at used canoes if you know of any good re-sellers.

Thanks for your time

MIKE from Maple

swift kipawa all the way.
swift is a good company, probably the best.

You will probably be on a lake more often than on whitewater, so I would recommend having a keel on your canoe as it will help you keep a straight line while paddling solo. On those windy days, you won't be pushed to the side as much as a keeless canoe, thus spending less energy. If you fish, a keel will also help if you use your canoe to troll...as you might know, boat controll is essential while trolling.

A fitted keel actually makes your canoe harder to control and steer. A good canoe's hull will act as the "keel", hence a canoe with some shape to the hull not a flat bottom. The cons of a keel far out weigh the pros.

I love my Scott Canoe 16' Prospector.

I agree with Steve T.
The best value in a NEW canoe, IMO, is a Scott 16ft Kevlar, either the Prospector or Tripper design.
I've used them both. And I've seen them for sale as low as $1,400-

Alternatively, you may get lucky and get a great deal on a used canoe.

Stainless

You may not imagine yourself running white water at this stage, but you will inevitably find yourself paddling moving water in streams and rivers where a keel is a disadvantage. A keeless rounded bottom offers less resistance to the current and therefore gives you greater maneuverabiliy. A keel can also get hung up on rocks that a rounded bottom will more easily slide over.

Mark S.

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

I got mine for less than that. (Backroad Maps Edition) with oak trim and yoke. To be fair it was a "special" deal.

Don't know if they are the best.
But here is an ad from Craigslist that you might be interested in.

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/boa/1139644340.html

I think the prices are really good. (IMHO)


(We have a Langford 16.6 Prospector and we love it!!!)

Good Luck
Moe

Such a hard question to answer because everyone's opinion of best is different. Best canoe under $500? or best canoe under $4000. Scott sure offers some good value for not spending too much (I have a Scott in my personal little fleet) but those who know paddle different canoes as many of the higher priced models paddle much cleaner than many of the lower priced ones. I agree keel less is the way to go if your anything beyond the most basic paddler.

My personal favorite canoe would have to be the Swift Kipawa, as for keeping the price down you may even want to take a look at the Gold Fusion (fiberglass line) they use both Kevlar and Fiberglass cloth and I've been presently supervised by several of these we received in stock last year that were under the advertised weight. If you can afford it go with a good Kevlar canoe. I still feel that the Carbon ones are more about the sex appeal of the material rather than practicality. You may also want to look at Bell canoes, they make some really light models to and we've had almost as good luck with them in rentals as we have with Swift.

I'm still a Swift Kipawa guy though... gotta love that Swifts are manufactured right here in the Algonquin Park area and with the US exchange on the Bell boats this year they are out of line in price compared to Canadian companies.

Just my 2 cents.

Randy Mitson
AO Huntsville
http://www.aohuntsville.com
http://www.algonquinoutfitters.com
mailto:randym@algonquinoutfitters.com

I agree on the Kippawa. I've got the kevlar fusion and love it. My Scott Echo has been demoted to my "loaner" canoe since I got the Swift, It's very fast and easy to paddle and rides waves well. the rounded bottom prevents it from hanging up and the slight rocker in the bow tends to help lift it over the waves creating a dryer ride.
One thing though; it'll feel a little tippy to start, but has excellent secondary stability and is very hard to roll, and the ride really smooths out with a little headway.
My advise to you is to rent for a season and try as many boats as you can before you jump though, other's opinions are never as good as first hand experience.

I so very much agree with your rent then buy suggestion, scoutergriz. I'm glad you said that because I forgot to mention it. We have customers that show up and rent a canoe for the day and just keep coming back over and over again to switch models. We usually credit up to 2 days worth of rentals off of a purchase too, so keep your receipt if you do end up renting to try.

For a light weight canoe, I would pick Swift before all others. There are other makers that can match Swift for quality, Langford and Souris River to name a couple, but Swift is significantly better when it comes to price. I don't know what Scott charges, but in my opinion, the canoe is not as good.

When it comes to which model you buy, give some thought to how you would like to paddle when you go solo. Many folks prefer sitting on the bow seat facing the stern, paddling the canoe "backwards". This only really works if you are paddling a symmetrical canoe, and I don't think the kippawa is symetrical. With asymetrical canoes the idea is to kneel just behind the yoke, and keel the canoe over slightly and paddle that way.

If you would prefer a canoe where you can sit on the bow seat facing backwards to paddle, I would recommend the swift prospector. If you are comfortable using the kneeling thwart just behind the yoke, and paddle in the center of the canoe, then I'd grab the kippawa.

The last thing I would suggest is that some thought be given to the length. I know you mentioned that you wanted a canoe for solo or tandem tripping. So did I when I first went out to get one. Then soon after nephews, neices, or even coworkers who'd never really paddled were interested in coming. A 16 or even 16.5 foot boat fits two people and their gear and that's it. A 17.6 foot boat has enough space to take a passenger. Perhaps a Swift Temagami? 5 lbs heavier, but it's got nice freeboard and more space.

Karior

Thanks for all of your input, you're making my decision easier already.
I have narrowed it down to a swift, Scott, or langford, but mainly towards the the swift prospector. I have already talked to the guys that work at Swift Canoe along Hwy 11 and arranged to rent one for a three day trip at the end of june, i'm hoping for the best!

thanks again

MIKE from Maple

I found this old Curtis Northstar when I was looking through classifieds.

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-Canoe-16-Curtis-Canoe-W0QQAdIdZ127209789

I think this boat, as with most Yost designs, gives you a good balance between the variety of conditions for paddling.

Also, check out craigslist and other classified sites. Sometimes you can get a great deal.

If you are serious about making the investment.. I would consider the input of Randy and Scoutergirl. The amount you invest in rentals will not be lost as you will be test driving canoes before spending money to acquire. After a couple of trips.. touch base with Randy and pick one up that is gently used at the end of the season from a place like AO. I have a Scott Temagami which chose me but I'm quite content with it. Don't let your emotion get the better of you. If canoeing becomes part of your lifestyle eventually you will choose a boat for all the right reasons.

The Swift Prospector is a good choice. If you want to compare it to something you may want to check out the Bell Chestnut Prospector too. Bell's Carbon/Kevlar really makes for a light weight layout. If you go to the Oxtongue Lake (Algonquin) Swift location they should have the Swift Prospector and AO right next door will have the Bell Chestnut Prospector. And if you want to compare both of them to the Langford Prospector you can drive 5 minutes back down Highway #60 and check out what Langford has to offer too. Nice thing is the Swift/AO location on Oxtongue lake is right on the water so it's really easy to go out for a test paddle. Take your time and paddle as much as you can in different conditions, (flatwater & waves)

I'm sure you'll find something that will meet your needs.

Lots of luck.

Randy Mitson
AO Huntsville
http://www.aohuntsville.com
http://www.algonquinoutfitters.com
mailto:randym@algonquinoutfitters.com

Thanks a lot Randy, i might go up in a week or two and go for a couple of test drives!

MIKE from Maple

I can vouch for the Kipawa, I've been a proud owner for about 15 years now. Have never had a problem, keep it in my garage which is what we should do if we have the space (don't want it in the elements all the time). If you like less maintenance, then try to stay away from the wood trim models, otherwise you need to oil that 3x a year. If I had bought a Langford or Souris first, I'd be probably spouting about how great they are. You can't go too wrong with any of the above brands, it all depends in the end on price, weight desired and dealer support after purchase.

I went through a similar search for a good tripper a few years ago. I had narrowed mine down to a 16-17' Kevlar and was most impressed with the Swift Kipawa and Langford Nahanni. Unfortunately it took a long time and alot of searching. Unwilling to pay the hefty price tag of a new canoe we looked at many used rentals that the outfitters were selling off and found that they were all heavily abused and overpriced. In the end we found a Langford Nahanni slightly used and in excellent shape and have really enjoyed the performanced of this canoe with no issues. My advice to you is be patient and wait for the right deal.

Anything low in cost and in decent shape

Type of material ( fiberglass - Golden glass, kevlar.... Etc )
will make for lighter but higher costs

If anyone is interested... as I am about to purchase something
new as a retirement gift... I have

15'6" prospector scott fiberglass that I wil likely sell for around $350


and

my St Ignace 14' fiberglass that I likey would part with for $100


All are not the coffee table display type as scratches and normal wear and tear
exists... All are structurally sounds and been all tested in Opengo waves
successfullyin the last two years.

Rac n

I'll third Scoutergris's suggestion of renting for a season and trying a bunch of boats. It's the best think you can do.

I have a question. How long have you been paddling?

This is significant in that as your ability progresses you will find different boat styles appealing. A good example of this is the aforementioned keel. They are great when you start out, but over time with the progression of skill a keel becomes like training wheels that you cannot remove. Not worth it in the end but great in the beginning.

anyone have any opinions in the swift Algonquin?

Love it I bought the Swift Algonquin 17 in 2007 from Swift at the Algonquin store and love it.

Impossible to answer the question.

My suggestion is to spend the next 3 years renting different canoes and making your own informed decision.

The BEST canoe is a free one...

Keep an eye out in the used classifieds. I have bought kevlar canoes for a little more than it would have cost me to rent for my trip...

paddling.net is a good start with your research.

The BEST canoe is a free one...

Keep an eye out in the used classifieds. I have bought kevlar canoes for a little more than it would have cost me to rent for my trip...

paddling.net is a good start with your research.

This is an oxymoron
There is no "best canoe for the best price"
There are cheap canoes (not that good)
Good canoes for a reasonable price
and.... expensive canoes (which could mean carbon or some light Kevlar variety)
I'd go with an expedition Kevlar layup.
Take a look at Evergreen and Alchemist canoes as well

well there was a swift kipawa on craigslist for $750 but I was to slow and someone is picking it up tomorrow

man, thought I might have finally had my very own canoe
oh well the search continues

what about the sportspal anyone have one/use one any opinions?

A friend owns a Sportspal. I don't see it as a "real" tripping canoe, and that wasn't his purpose in buying it (it came with a tent trailer he purchased). His sportspal is short, kinda tippy (i don't know about secondary stability, but it's like an upside-down bathtub in my opinion). No yoke, but very light.

It is extremely handy for fishing, i'll give them that. not big enough to put gear in and do a long excursion though, but awesome for crown-land camping when your only goal with a boat is to fish small lakes.

mind you i'm basing this only off of the one i saw. they may vary across their line.

I'd say the best priced canoes are the former rentals that you can usually buy for $400 or 500.

These are my ideal canoes:

For a Solo or weekend

http://www.novacraft.com/canoe_bob.htm

For an extended trip or big water

http://www.wenonah.com/products/template/product_detail.php?IID=25&SID=32b5cda2a9bed51466cdc970bee75b20

BTW edge, Swift just had a sale in King City, ON.

Keep an eye on their events page on their website. If you're thinking of going the Swift route, their sales are where you'll get deals IMO on a great condition canoe.

But like others have said, the outfitter clearances are excellent if you can turn your eye to patches. As I'm sure Randy has confirmed in the past, they're structurally sound.

If you're talking about the Sportspal/Radison behemoths, than Bryce is 100% correct. They are actually remarkably stable because of those foam blocks that they glue under the gunwales, but for tripping, you can do better. They make them light now, someone had a 35 pounder he was showing me. But they are better for fishing at your local pond than doing an Algonquin loop.

Tenzing

http://tenzingsadventures.blogspot.com/

Geez. While their intentions are good everybody wants to confuse you with detailed advise and encourage to rent and try out punch of canoes when you said you wanted to avoid these costs (you can easily spend $200 on a 5 or 6 day rental of a nice canoe).

Here's what you want to. Buy the best priced 16-17ft Kevlar Prospector you can afford. They really hold their value so if you can swing $1600-$1900 buy new because a banged up one in good ship will run you $1200. Any reputable manufacturer (Scott, Swift, Lanford, Evergreen) and go with Aluminum gunwales for low maintenance, lightness and low cost.

These things are the most popular in the Park (and the rentals) for a reason. They are just the ideal Lakes/River hybrid canoe for the park. And if you buy one for $1600 or $1800 (mine was autumn special - 19ft Kevlar Scott) and you use it for couple of years and you want to get something new or different as long as it's not too banged up you can get 80% of what you paid to put into a new one.

And think of all the rental fees you saved.

Steve