Hello All,

I'll be the first to admit it, I live in an almost ideal setting. I'm on 45 acres of land and no matter which way I look out my windows I do not see anybody. I do not conside most of Algonquin wilderness, you can always see somebody else canoeing by, or their campfire. Just curious, what does wilderness mean to you?

Michael

No visible mechanization or noise associated with mechanization.




Mark Rubino
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler - Blog
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

is entirely on our (my) own, and if we don't do something for ourselves if we are in a jam no one will.

To me, wilderness is defined by no permanent inhabitants or structures. This would include cabins, logging outposts, campgrounds with any services, etc. I prefer fewer people than is commonly found in most of Algonquin, but there are many times of year and locations in AP that would qualify.

It is also my opinion that just because you see another person doesn't mean you're not in the wilderness. Consider the old fur trappers...they certainly were in what most people would consider the wilderness on their long journeys yet they would occassionally run into other trappers or native people. I think the same holds true for Algonquin.

I will play devil's advocate with Markus' definition...on a clear night you can look up into the sky and see mechanization in the form of the space station or other man-made satellites so that would disqualify any location on Earth! Good luck scheduling your next trip into the "wilderness" that way! I think Russia is offering discounts for space travel though so don't give up hope.

I think all of the alternatives that might be offered will each have their unique perspective and personal nature to the definition but that is part of what makes journeys into Algonquin memorable and enjoyable. To each his own.

I'll have to agree with PaPaddler just because you see a few people doesn't take away from the fact that it's still wilderness. I'd have to say that wilderness is something that man hasn't touched too much. I don't know if I'd considering Algonquin Park as a full on wilderness although it certainly has locations where man hasn't interfered much. I'd say seeing all those cut out portage routes and trails kinda takes away from it being a true wilderness. You'd almost certainly have to go to Northern Ontario if you want to see untouched forest where man seldom sets foot. Those places I'd say are the true wilderness. Although I do love the fact that Algonquin park can offer campers a bit of both worlds since not many people can just be dropped into a true northern wilderness and camp there. After all is said and done I'd say Algonquin still leans closer to wilderness then not.

Algonquin Park is wilderness enough for me. I live just outside of Detroit in the middle of suburbia, on a lot less than 1% the size of Michael's. I feel that most interior sites are spaced far enough apart to create a sense of solitude. I prefer to put a few long portages between me and the access point as quickly as possible. There have been days in AP when I haven't seen another canoe, and days when I've seen a fleet of 'em. I don't mind sharing the Park, to a degree. I currently have little interest in reenacting Les Stroud's exploits, so AP is enough of a culture shock to keep me happy. When I describe my past trips to people I know, most of them think I'm nuts. But that's just the area I'm from, I guess.

To me it means places where there are no or few human activities, where nature evolves on it's own, where wild animals roam free and where you can eat the fish from clean waters.

I used to have a lakeside property bordering Gatineau Park's wilder areas. I had immediate access to 365 sq. km's of wilderness, free of charge, 365 days a year, 24 hours a day.

I lost it due to my divorce....I wanted to die there!!

OUCH! Dano, OUCH!
Oh man, feel for ya



Mark Rubino
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler - Blog
Mark's Algonquin Park Sampler

http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry

Wilderness is being out there in the woods or on lakes with no one else. Not seeing anybody and not hearing all the noises. I can say that on my trip with my son we saw nobody for the 1st 5-days. We where so happy about that.

Wilderness is relative to the person. I feel that Algonquin is a managed park, not necessarily wilderness. But my friends from New York City would drive five minutes down Highway 60 and think it was wild.

Not that I would complain. I'd rather be in Algonquin than at work.

Tenzing

http://tenzingsadventures.blogspot.com/

Wilderness is in your heart. You know when you are in it.

Its the call of the loon
Hearing the sound of a flying bird
Seeing a beaver swimming across the lake
Watching the crackling fire
Seeing more stars than you thought possible
Waking up to a misty lake
Paddling on a mirror.

Thats! Wilderness - wherever it might be

If you're never out of sight of another person or campfire in APP, you're at the wrong place in APP or the wrong time. I've been on plenty of APP trips with days before seeing anyone.

Wilderness to me means days before I can expect any help if something goes bad.

What 'wilderness' means to me is being somewhere away from the commotion civilized living.

Whether its just going for a hike in a small forest outside of the city or going up North and paddling the Kopka River, it's all wilderness to me.

No phones...no iphones....

No Music except the wild.....

Sean,,,,,Spot is okay dood!

Mike

Mike B

Turning your underwear inside out...

You nailed it!!

And then frontwards, then backwords..

Here's one I got from BoKnows..

Day 5, time to switch underwear. Who wants to switch with me?

It's the end of the day, and I'm not feeling especially coherent, but I want to add to this great thread.

Rick Bass, the naturalist and author who lives with his family in the very remote Yaak Valley of northwestern Montana, said in a recent radio interview something like this, "In the vast marshland of the Yaak Valley I have found myself feeling happy for no reason at all." Yes, I thought. I have felt that way--often as a child and since then always in Algonquin Park.

But what does that mean, feeling happy for no reason at all? For me it means feeling so completely present, so at home, so light of heart that there is nothing more I desire or need, nowhere else I would rather be or can imagine being better. Of course, in theory and practise, you can feel that way anywhere, anytime, in a prison cell or on the moon, but for me it happens unfailingly in Algonquin. And not until I re-experience it there do I realize that I had not only lost that feeling but could not even remember what it felt like. But when it returns, it is instantly recognizable and overwhelms me with joy and gratitude.

Why in Algonquin? Who knows. Perhaps something to do with not being at the top of the food chain and knowing with all certainty that the proper attitude about my place in creation is that I am less than ordinary;I am totally, liberatedly insignificant. That absolute indifference of everything around me to my health and welfare, that embrace of loneliness, is dazzlingly freeing.

I am doing an Arctic river next year and will be grateful for occasional human habitation. Tent rings confirm that people once travelled here.

Algonquin is probably wilder than 100 years ago but I would like to have a birds eye view of the logging incursions..that is often eye popping.

It has many of the wonderful attributes of wilderness..I too have paddled without seeing a soul for four or five days but dont fear falling down on a port and never being found and resuced in the same year.

Now as to the underwear thingy..am I supposed to include them in my packing list?

Have been thinking about this and am not sure exactly what it is but perhaps I will dance around it. I know I am in the wilderness when I am sure no one is watching me (except the folks I'm with, if any). I look forward to day after day of swimming but never pack trunks. I would not go without a good first aid kit. I see evidence of previous human activity that is being ravaged by the wilderness. An old piece of equipment with a tree growing out of it speaks of the vigor of my surroundings to effectively absorb and obliterate any human incursions.

I was recently on Big Trout Lake and inspected a campsite that was closed. It was eerie. There a firepit, benches, carvings in the trees, etc. Deadfall all over but like a haunted house, with the forest re-claiming what had been taken from it, bit by bit.

When my mind is fully occupied with thoughts and strategies that I almost never use when I am at home. When I start doing things in anticipation of losing light. I savour that microsecond between pushing off of a rock landing or beach, listening to the friction between it and the bottom of the boat, then nothing. Like floating in the air. When what I am doing and why I am doing it doesn't matter to anyone else. Where evidence of human activity does not dominate the landscape. An escape from civilization, in some measure and a return to self reliance and rugged individualism. I am rarely as happy as I am sitting on a lake shore knowing there are but a handful of people within 5 miles of me.

I know that the great majority of the population would not have the skill or ability to get to where I am, even if they wanted to. That finding me would be a challenge... and getting out with a serious injury might not be possible. And looking the other way when someone needs help is not an option... because there is no one else around.

Sitting on the edge of a flat, calm lake in the darkest of dark on a moonless night, when the the star filled sky and it's reflection on the lake makes me feel like I an sitting on a perch in space surrounded by stars.

Fred, you don't pack trunks!!! Does that mean you're skinny dipping? Shame on you, contravention of park rules 'No public nudity'. I guess we'll have to get the AA police after you! Mind you, judging from some of the content I've seen on this forum, it's probably one of the regs people ignore!

Have fun and happy skinny dipping!

Michael

If you are referring to my interpretive dance... it is protected under the Freedom of Expression provisions.

Definition of Wilderness
1. Cell phones don't work and you instead only hear the calls from the Loons!
and
2 Fresh picked berries with bear saliva

P.S. Minor correction to an earlier post: You can get 4 days out of underwear!
frontwards , backwards , turn inside out and repeat

Raton Laveur
aka

*Rac n*

It's a buff job, but somebody has to do it. As good AAers we'll just have to grin...and bare it.

peace and quiet where I can feel at one with my spirit and connect with my family in ways that I can't where there are the distractions of our convenient city lives

Laurie
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
www.outdooradventurecanada.com
www.wildernesscooking.com

John and Fred, you guys awoke my canoe-tripping spirit when I read your posts last night. But it was during the maintenance work, so I couldn't respond then. Thanks for putting to exact words what I'm looking for when I head out again next month. John, that peaceful, comfortable feeling. Fred, the tasks you do nowhere else, and the total change in thought. As for the undies discussion, tried that before, but whether I will or won't wear 'em next time will remain a mystery

5 weeks from now, I'll be sleeping along the Nipissing, and it will be wilderness to me!