A few words about real and fake in the vintage Panerai worldDecember 6 2009 at 2:10 PM
Volker Wiegmann (Login VolkerWiegmann)
from IP address 188.8.131.52
I'd like to share/inform about what interested vintage collectors forward to me in the last weeks. I try to be on the line with the forum rules, which take a clear point against what is called "project / fake / hommage" (which I apreciate that the mods did it!)
A few days ago I was paging the owner of the original 3646 watch with the case number 260720. It was also an attemp to focus people on what's going on here and seems to increase and grow without any shame:
Beside this posting I have also published on another vintage watch forum, where interested collectors of (real) Panerai watches are at home and seem to have the same opinion like me and others who want to protect the DNA of our favourite brand.
I will repeat what I wrote there:
Creating "hommage / project watches" got into next stage in the Panerai collectors world.
Now we can find fake Rolex embossings and case numbers that exist in real. I knew that this would happen somedays. And so it was.
I received a couple of photos of a "wannabe 3646 watch" a few days ago, being asked "is this the real deal?"
I have this original watch in a database which I have built up with my collector friend and member of this forum, Ralf Ehlers.
It's not just useful to get an overview of existing watches (real ones), it also let us find "doublettes" in case some "creatives" hit a number that exists already.
The 3646 watch with the case number 260720 is known since 2004 when it was auctioned. Since then we never saw it again but we have noted all details which were available (dial version, movement type, other details etc.).
I tried to track the owner of the real watch to inform him that there is something around which is not authentic. Not successful yet, but maybe later.
After I have published this, we got note of another 3646 fake, which use a number which exist also in real, which we have also in our files: 1010222. I put both together to compare the real and the fake one.
There is always an argument floating around that these creatures are made only for their own pleasure, but I feel a bit worried that in the future these creatures get more and more "real" against people who don't know the difference. In these 2 specific cases the owners of the original 3646 #260720 and #1010222 might be not very happy to see their watches "cloned" (even if one embossing says 3546 it's still not funny to me). I was told from other collectors that already people bought some pieces as original and payed much more than a "hommage", which is very sad to know. At the end this is damaging the brand and their true history, which I and others want to discover, learn and protect!
To sum it up:
Fake Rolex embossing and fake case number is far more than what I saw before. This is in my personal opinion more criminal than fun.
Other references than 3646 are in the focus of these "artists" as well..., so collectors might be careful who are intersted in the "real deal". Maybe it's not the issue now, but who knows what was made in the future, when these watches changed ownerships several times.
Mods: feel free to lock or delete if it's against the rules here.
representin' the DNA of Panerai
|This message has been edited by hkgweilo from IP address 184.108.40.206 on Oct 12, 2011 11:56 AM|
- Thanks for posting this Volker! (nt) - Jay Pulli on Dec 6, 2009, 2:18 PM
- Re: A few words about real and fake in the vintage Panerai world - Ian on Dec 6, 2009, 2:21 PM
- Great post Volker .... but ouch !!!! - J-F on Dec 6, 2009, 2:22 PM
- Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should... I too am worried about this> - eric s. on Dec 6, 2009, 2:25 PM
- There is no 'thin line' and although - Asi on Dec 6, 2009, 2:26 PM
- Scarily close >> - ArifS on Dec 6, 2009, 2:38 PM
- Volker, its getting high tech!... - Jpvfx on Dec 6, 2009, 2:46 PM
- Many Thanks Volker for lighten this up - Polleke on Dec 6, 2009, 2:49 PM
- I would be extremely upset to see my 3646 cloned... - John in NJ on Dec 6, 2009, 2:55 PM
- Great info, thanks for sharing. - TR on Dec 6, 2009, 3:02 PM
- Thanks for this Information , Volker ! - Ogiku,Toronto on Dec 6, 2009, 3:03 PM
- Thanks for posting! Perhaps, we shld make this post a sticky? nt - Chye on Dec 6, 2009, 3:12 PM
- Great post Volker! - hongT on Dec 6, 2009, 3:17 PM
- I've always had this negative feeling when watchlovers using the word: hommage - m r b l e u on Dec 6, 2009, 3:22 PM
- Thanks for sharing this info...Volker - Watch8 on Dec 6, 2009, 3:34 PM
- with great thanks, Volker for the info... - ed on Dec 6, 2009, 3:43 PM
- Great post, Volker. And, yes: it's is scary and upsetting; especially for new buyers! [nt] - Aurelio S. on Dec 6, 2009, 4:03 PM
- Thanks Volker... - BillS100 on Dec 6, 2009, 4:41 PM
- You know Im following this very closely... - NachoM on Dec 6, 2009, 5:18 PM
- kudos Volker - Germán on Dec 6, 2009, 6:17 PM
- Thanks Volker...very interesting read - Bernie on Dec 6, 2009, 6:34 PM
- Volker, thanks for your diligence and help in keeping... - Quapaw on Dec 6, 2009, 7:07 PM
- Bravo Volker, regards. - frankV on Dec 6, 2009, 7:41 PM
- Bravo Volker, suggest this post be placed on the Archives ! - frankV on Dec 6, 2009, 7:52 PM
- Done (nt) - Jay Pulli on Dec 6, 2009, 8:10 PM
- T.O.B.A.L. - charles on Dec 6, 2009, 8:08 PM
- Wow that is scary........ - Ravi on Dec 6, 2009, 9:13 PM
- As someone said before - David on Dec 6, 2009, 9:19 PM
- Also... - David on Dec 6, 2009, 9:23 PM
- i love reading your vintage books, probably once a week- best stories and history :) - mike111 on Dec 6, 2009, 9:57 PM
- Thanks for the infor Volker! - Shella on Dec 6, 2009, 10:54 PM
- Thank you for sharing, Volker. - ewit on Dec 7, 2009, 1:24 AM
- Thanks for the post VW...nt - Krieng on Dec 7, 2009, 3:30 AM
- COPY & AFFIRM 10000% Skipper !!!!!! Respect the DNA u bet !! (nt) - Hammer on Dec 7, 2009, 11:53 AM
- Thanks for posting this Volker!! Be careful out there guys.... :-\ nt - ReTTo on Dec 7, 2009, 3:34 PM
- Re: A few words about real and fake in the vintage Panerai world - J Hammer on Dec 8, 2009, 5:55 AM
- Thanks Volker... - aielmini51 on Feb 16, 2010, 5:41 PM
- Thanks for posting real are real Fakes are Fakes - GIULIO on Jul 14, 2010, 6:09 AM
- fear not everyone..there will ALWAYS be ways to tell a genuine article from a fake.. - steven t. mulholland on Jun 7, 2011, 11:40 AM
- beware of this guy - eddybarista on Nov 29, 2011, 9:09 AM