Just wondering if I could get some advice from any watch old timers.
About 3 weeks or so ago, I sold a non-PAM to a private party on another site. He received about a dozen high resolution scans (including a full frontal of course) and a full description of the watch including the model number and case number as well a high res pic of the paperwork showing which model this was.
My ad, and our discussion, said nothing about giving him an option to return it if he didn't like it. It was sent as agreed (USPS registered and fully insured) and he tells me he agrees that the watch is in "pristine condition" (his words not mine).
For some reason, he only picked it up today as it was held in lock-up at the post office after they say they attempted to deliver it twice. So today he calls me and says he wants to return it and asks for a refund. He says he was looking for a different model pilot's watch with squared off hands. Like I said, the pictures left nothing to doubt.
I'm shocked that he'd even ask. I explain we never even spoke about a refund right, it wasn't in my post, and I fully performed on our agreement and wouldn't even consider it. I asked him if he's ever returned, or allowed a buyer to return, a watch after a sale and he says something about that it's standard procedure in accordance with {WEB SITE'S NAME] policies.
So he's ticked off at me and I'm wondering if anyone thinks he has a right to be.
If he posts negative feedback on the other site, do you think the mod would read an email from my side and take this into consideration before allowing a negative feedback to remain on their site?
Thanks for any advice.
Greg in Irvine, CA
https://secure.network54.com/My_Account/Account/Edit/Profile
If he had the watch in his possession for two weeks (give or take), and then he asks for a refund, no flippin' way.
If he had the watch in hand for less than 24 hours after receipt, I would take it back and provide a full refund (less S/H incurred by me) assuming the watch was in the same condition as when it left my possession.
He has no right to ask for a refund at this point.
July 24 2008, 3:02 AM
It seems like he had clear pictures and a clear description. I'm assuming this is the IWC? The rules on the site say nothing about 2 week inspection/satisfaction.
B-Rad: Hershey, PA / San Francisco, CA / Boston, MA
Of course he's ticked, Greg - he can't take advantage of you!
July 24 2008, 3:03 AM
Ok, maybe that's a touch harsh - but it's my first reaction......
If I was buying a PAM 233, or a $200. Seiko, I'm waiting at the PO at 8:59 for it to open. I find it strange he didn't pick it up for 3 weeks ~
I never liked these circumstances and, like anything else - you want to do the right thing for folks. If there's an issue, no matter what, I would give the person
their $$ back (minus all fees/shipping charges incurred) within a few days. 3 weeks later, because he changed his mind as to what watch he wanted? That's
a bit of a stretch, though. He can turn around and sell it off (or trade towards something different) on his own, right? If you two discussed a chance to undo
the deal beforehand, I'd say send it back. But you didn't, so you're not obligated to.
If it's a popular watch, you can always take it back and sell it off to someone else, too......
Good luck ~
A.
"No, maybe I can't win, maybe the only thing I can do is just take everything he's got. But to beat me, he's gonna have to kill me, and to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me, and to do that, he's gotta be willing to die himself and I don't know if he's ready to do that..."
If in fact you verified that he has only had the watch in his...
July 24 2008, 3:09 AM
possession for a day I would give him the refund, provided he paid all the shipping charges both ways. I think you are in the right but is it worth it for the potential hassle if he posts negative feedback and potentially damages your reputation?
It sounds like you did everything right, sometimes buyers flake. I would think with the quality scans you referenced, a full and accurate description and a fair price you can sell your piece to someone who will appreciate it and be thankful to have purchased it. I would keep an eye out for reference checks on your "buyer" and give other potential sellers a heads up to the bad form he exhibited.
something else better came along and why not try and weasel out??? Greg, IMHO you did everything a good seller would do ( accurate detailed description, good detailed pictures, outlining of terms, and of course the delivery of the goods in a timely manner)! I wouldn't feel bad at all, as Aurelio stated if you want to help the guy out and it's a popular model you could take it back and resell it provided it's in the condition you sent it. This would be above and beyond.
1) Do the pictures clearly indicated the style of hands he now doesn't like?
2) The papers were legible and clear?
3) Varify he had it for 3 weeks, now if I did't get the watch within the hour promised by Fedex, I'm on the horn with somebody, yet he doesn't mention this for 3 weeks.
4) Some people will never be happy and choose to be that way, sounds like this guy isn't playing fair.
5) It's your call as to if you take it back, but I would think he would pay all fee's/shipping.
6) Having one bad deal against you would not keep me from buying from someone who has great references from guys/gals I know and trust thier judgement. Everyone has a bad customer at some point.
Don't know if I helped you or not, just food for thought.
... I think the 3 week delay to take possession alone automatically finalizes the deal.
First of all, I don't buy it. No one waits three weeks to go and pick up a purchase like that. And the post office will never "lock" your mail and keep it away from you. But whether he decided to wait that long by choice or not , there is no way he should expect you to allow that amount of time to pass and still offer a return.
Unless it was discussed beforehand .... The world just DONT work like that!
Sorry to hear about all the trouble Greg. I hope the buyer decides to come to his senses.
Cheers!
Eddie Sanchez
McKinney, Texas
P U R A V I D A !
Time, if nothing else, will do its worst
So do me the favor
And tell me the good news first ~ Neil Peart
Current MotoGP Championship points (top 3)
1. V. Rossi 212
2. C. Stoner 187
3. D. Pedrosa 171
According to the facts you set forth, the buyer has zero entitlement to a refund!!!
July 24 2008, 4:55 AM
You are obligated to correctly describe the watch, supply accurate photos, and not conceal material defects. You satisfied these obligations. You are NOT required to question the buyer, investigate precisely what he is looking for, and make an independent deternination as to whether your watch meets his undisclosed expectations. If the seller failed to ask certain questions and/or determine certain facts about the watch, that is his fault and his fault alone. You are not responsible for the buyers' undisclosed agenda. It would be a different story if you knew that the watch was not what he was looking for and/or if you misrepresented the model and/or if you supplied deceptive photos. You did none of the above, and the buyer is solely responsible for his dissatisfaction. The buyer failed to conduct appropriate due diligence and the buyer must accept the consequences of his carelessness.
NO REFUND!!!
Regards,
Craig LA / SCPC
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
~Albert Einstein
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils.
~Louis Hector Berlioz
scams but seems like something is a little fishy here to me. You buy a high dollar watch and then wait 3 weeks to pick it up?!?! I don't know very many people who'd do that....
USPS registered mail is also weird in that it doesn't "update" or provide live tracking like Fedex or UPS. I've had packages sent registered mail that didn't show up as delivered for a week or so after the fact, so that's something also to take into consideration.
Perhaps he had the watch in his possession the whole time, took it for a joy ride and then changed his mind, or worse changed out the internal pieces w/ inferior parts. I'd take a Pellaton movement over a cheap unfinished Unitas any day of the week....who knows maybe that's what's powering his new watch w/ the "squared" off hands. Either way it would be very hard to prove if you get the watch back and then see that all the original parts aren't on/in it (he claims he received it that way, and even worse you sell it unknowingly to another person only to have them find out later...Yikes!!)
From what you've disclosed to us it sounds like you took all the right steps on your end so, in my opinion, like it or not the watch is his.
BTW did you get ref's from him? I do that when both buying and selling, always a good indication of how the buyer conducts themselves after an item is received (i.e. prone to returning, habitually contesting the condition of a received item, etc)
Good luck and hope all turns out well
Drew
-If you're going to continue to ignore my childish rants, I'll just hold my breath until I pass out....
It all sounds a bit fishy.
You did everything perfect, he would have the right to refund if you had mislead him in anything - but looks like you did everything possible by sending him photos and description of the watch.
If it was me would not give him a refund - you do not know what he did with your watch ?
He may have used it for a function and now wants to return !
It's like buying a suit , wearing it out and then wanting your money back !!!
If you let him get away with it , there may be others tempted to do the same.
There are time when one has to take a stand !
A lot of retail stores have a sign saying "we will gladly replace a faulty product but no refund if you change your mind"
Normally, I'd say take it back and bite the bullet; the hassle just isn't worth it. But after three weeks? No way. That completely changes the situation and places the responsibility entirely on the buyer's shoulders. You did what you promised you would do . . . it's not your problem if he waited three weeks to take possession of the watch (whether he truly did or not is another matter). If you give him three weeks grace, why not give four weeks to the next buyer and five to the following, and so on?
"Lack of planning on his part does not constitute an emergency on your part." Tell the guy "sorry" and move on. If he leaves negative feedback on some other site, I think a full explanation from you will more than offset anything he might say.
There is no way you can be expected to refund after three weeks. I say 3 business days....max. Even the law agrees. After that, the implied expectation is that you will spend the money which you received in exchange for the watch, as those funds convert to clear "good funds". Its quite the assumption on any sellers part (whether it is the case or not) that you even have the liquidity of cash to refund the money after 3 business days. Once those funds convert to "Good funds" in the eye of the law...those funds are clear to blow as you see fit. His election to wait more than 3 business days to inspect the watch was his oversight and a failure of his duty of care. He dropped the chain of possession, and missed the conversion of rights, legally and morally, by not taking possession and inspecting and reporting any dispute within 3 business days.
Do not return the watch. If he posts neg feedback....post your own right nearby.
but taking the watch back would not be the smartest move. Bottom line you have no idea what he did with the watch while in his possesion. A 24hr inspection period is more than enough and you far exceeded that. This is a clear case of buyers remorse , if he post negative feedback , do the same . Don't let him bully you when your in the right...
take it back I would tell the buyer because of the length of time involved that you want the watch inspected and checked first by the watch company or a repair person prior to any refund. This is the only real way to protect you from any potential damage or fraud.
seriously that sucks. you can't really win either way but i think you just let the buyer take care of it as 3 weeks is a long time and it just sounds like he has buyers remorse. if he does post up negative feedback i would make a post defending your situation as he can't argue the watch's condition or he didn't receive it. perhaps you canc contact a mod on this feedback forum and explain the situation.
LOCATION
NorCal: SF Bay Area / Fremont
SoCal: Long Beach / Pasadena
you shouldn't have to give him any kind of refund at all. 24 hours? Okay, you can take it back. But 3 friggin weeks!? that is a long time and complete BS. As a buyer I wouldn't even think about asking that. and if I did I would offer a restocking fee of some sort or offer to buy him a strap or something. Also, What if you used that money you got from the buyer and purchased a new one watch? What are you supposed to do in the case that you don't have x amount of dollars to pay him back?
I say you tell him tough luck, sorry it isn't the watch he wants anymore and to sell it or trade it towards something else. keep us updated on this, I hope everything works out for you.
No, dont take it back unless this was a policy made clear before the transaction.
Once a high value item leaves you esp a watch, no one will know what happened to it.
Returning it to you because he feels, he has changed his mind doesnt work.
Sometime this happens esp when a buyer buys a piece to flip, when they find it hard to flip, they come out with a million and one reasons to get their $ back.
Ultimately, you have a choice if to accept or reject the return.
