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318 pictures update. Sorry can't respond to emails

October 22 2011 at 11:26 PM

  (Login demand-n-supply)
from IP address 166.137.138.52

Two things

1. I still buy and collect Panerai watches
2. I did not know this was correct when I posted the watch on the forum.

Sorry the watch is real and we can have a civil discussion about this or not.

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This post will self-destruct in 60 seconds
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when steve jobs was alive I spent a lot less time thinking about how little You contribute to the world.

 
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AuthorReply

(Login Chrisfrombyron)
110.32.247.142

You're right , its real !

October 22 2011, 11:43 PM 


I just think a few ( well , more than a few ) people
were taken aback that Panerai would put such a low grade
movement in a Boutique watch , heck , it isn't even stamped
Panerai , pointless cost cutting , particularly given the
minimal difference in the wholesale price .

I know some people will come back and say ' but its a tool watch ' ,
but there is nothing I can find in the rules of Swiss Watchmaking
that says a tool watch justifies a crap movement , certainly
every other Swiss manufacturer that I'm aware of doesn't
subscribe to that line of thought .

I hope you enjoy the watch , but for me , that movement
kills any interest in that particular reference .

Regards & thanks for posting ( both posts ) .

Chris .

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(Login Jpvfx)
78.24.20.243

Its a classic NY piece, regardless.

October 22 2011, 11:47 PM 

And for a NY risti wink.gif its got to be the bomb! wink.gif
I'm just a little surprised that the 'Bridges' don't seem to even have Panerai stamped on them. I understand the movement its under a solid caseback but still - shouldn't it at least say Panerai!
HAGWE
Jp


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(Login CharlesLC)
High Heid Yin
173.49.50.101

thanks for the pics, Neeraj ...

October 22 2011, 11:50 PM 

but I am not surprised that the movement is not finished, the case back is ...

I can't believe that watch has been out for 2 years (plus or minus) and you're the first to discover this ... actually, I can believe it.

As long as it doesn't get personal, Id love to hear what others think.

thanks

 
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L(uke)
(Login snoballz)
173.77.22.53

I was indifferent at first >>>

October 23 2011, 12:07 AM 


The watch movement is a base ETA 6497 workhorse manual movement, thrown into a 44MM Luminor case with a very nice Brooklyn Bridge etched caseback. For the price point, initially I really didn't care. But, we are talking Panerai. Where is the effort? These movement can be had for a few hundred dollars.

I have a 318 and the 417. What's behind the caseback on these 41x Boutique Editions?








-luke

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(Login Chrisfrombyron)
110.32.247.142

actually , the cost of the 418 ebauche

October 23 2011, 12:16 AM 

would be south of $100 .

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(Login zameenzahari)
220.255.1.106

Thanks for posting this Neeraj...it's very interesting to see which other models>>>

October 23 2011, 12:16 AM 

Where Panerai took the same approach of equipping it with an unfinished movement. TFS!

 
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Barams
(Login barams)
99.8.186.177

Thanks Neeraj! IMO it's a solid case back so why does it need to be finished?

October 23 2011, 12:28 AM 

Do the other solid case back movements have Panerai engravings?

Thanks again Neeraj for showin us the guts of the 318

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(Login Chrisfrombyron)
110.32.247.142

traditionally ..... in Swiss watchmaking ...

October 23 2011, 1:15 AM 

The quality of the movement finishing
has had nothing to do with wether or not
the watch has a solid or display back ,
in fact , display backs are a relatively
recent development . It always been (
up until now ) about pride in the quality
of the product leaving the factory .

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(Login LUCCHAO)
99.238.82.70

solid casebacks with engraved mvmt

October 23 2011, 3:02 AM 

Hi, just available at ref section, from Maurits famous post.

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All mvmt seemed to be engraved, Pre-Vendomes,Pre-As, 0005/000.....

also, low beat 18000 VPH like this were only on early watches.

This mvmt on 318 is the very same shown at internet on "homages" on $300 level -- plain and simple ETA. hard to understand that! Even Dievas and Stainharts use better finished with Cotes de Geneve at least.

best

 
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(Login wrdoc)
66.27.111.185

Thanks for sharing. (nt)

October 23 2011, 12:43 AM 



Harlan
SOCAL
Life is short, wear your watches
U.S. Navy since 1991
Devil Doc Master Chief

 
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Richard
(Login PSY76)
166.137.137.10

I look at the 417's Caseback not at the movement.

October 23 2011, 12:51 AM 



PhotobucketPhotobucketPaneristi.comPhotobucket

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_____________________________________________
Let {A,B,C,D, Ect } = strapmakers
Let {a1,b2,c3,d4,Ect } = products strapmakers
Let æ = Accessories Corner
Let ø = Accessories Vendor Market
Strapmakers = all vendors regardless if they sell straps or not


 
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(Login ValerieMeyer)
75.206.193.119

Glad that you didn't get ripped off, disappointed in the movement

October 23 2011, 12:50 AM 

Not exactly what I would have expected to see from Panerai

 
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(Login Swiss-Adoration)
159.33.10.92

Mind Blowing...

October 23 2011, 1:40 AM 

....however not in a good way. Just because the movement isn't displayed doesn't work for me. Would work from a profit point for a manufacturer. Total cost to manufacture would be incredibly low. This has to be a hoax tell me it's a hoax?


 
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(Login mattgross)
174.54.212.1

Looking at the movement, it looks to be 18,000bph

October 23 2011, 2:04 AM 

Which would make it a 6497-1 and not a 6497-2 (making it far from the OP2 specs of 21,600bph). This is interesting, I hope to find out more about this.

 
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(Login mattgross)
174.54.212.1

Found this in the archives

October 23 2011, 2:22 AM 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/638808/message/1253198146/Is+there+an+update+on+the+OP+XXIX+Calibre-

Looks to be not COSC.

Found this on an internet sales ad:

Incorporates EXCLUSIVE MOVEMENT that is not available in any other Panerai watches other than the Brooklyn Bridge (not exactly sure why) NOT COSC CERTIFIED - Panerai OP XXIX Calibre

Looks to be cheaper than the 005 in 2009, so this could explain it all.

 
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(Login games0n)
67.188.113.204

After you open the caseback, when you screw the caseback on

October 23 2011, 2:05 AM 

would you be able to allign the engravings (the brooklyn bridge) such that it's allign on the same angle as the dial ? Just curious. Thanks.

 
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(Login aproster)
76.214.16.51

Wow...318 value just plummeted....

October 23 2011, 2:21 AM 

Amazing they would cheapo out like that....truly a SE, in the worst sense of it!

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Studio City, CA


 
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(Login mattgross)
174.54.212.1

I don't think it was a SE

October 23 2011, 2:22 AM 

It didn't come with a large SE box.

 
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(Login aproster)
76.214.16.51

Of course not....

October 23 2011, 2:28 AM 

That would have cost Panerai an extra $100 bucks

This one is "special" in all the wrong ways....cut costs, gouge the customer, max profit!!!

Nice one Panerai sad.gif


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Studio City, CA


 
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(Login Chrisfrombyron)
110.32.247.142

ltd edition/boutique/special

October 23 2011, 3:00 AM 

It all implies some sort of exclusiveness
beyond regular production models , irrespective
of the type of box , that should be
reflected in the watch itself , as it stands , this
Boutique Edition will have the unfortunate
reputation of having a movement worse
than that fitted to homages and fakes .

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(Login aproster)
76.214.16.51

+1 well said...nt

October 23 2011, 3:33 AM 



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Studio City, CA


 
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(Premier Login Kingsholm14)
High Heid Yin
71.155.234.76

Disagree. Rarified rarely devalue, and since when did base movements in lower priced

October 23 2011, 4:14 AM 

Editions ever sway a purchase. Never. The 318 has certain market only. It's a stable purchase. Won't rocket nor plummet.




 
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(Login Chrisfrombyron)
49.182.119.83

this isn't a base movement .

October 23 2011, 5:07 AM 

With all respect to your position,
Its lower than base , the same movement
as the 112 would have cost Panerai an
extra $150 , at most .
The logic defies me .

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(Premier Login Kingsholm14)
High Heid Yin
71.155.234.76

I'd truly say it is a base movement if it's lower than what we know of as base. I

October 23 2011, 12:02 PM 

Don't think it devalues this Panerai at all. Panerai have never sold on the strength of their movements. Always case size, shape and dial. The engine was always last. This is nothing to stop a sale IMHO. Offer it for $900 and people will snap your hand off. It's just about establishing a fair price. If you didn't want the watch initially you won't now. If you did I'm sure you would still get it.
The average punter doesn't ask the movement details, nor cares. Either manual or automatic. At best their early years were workhorses not complications.
The topic is fair game and enlightening. I'm educated even more and I'll be back for another watch I'm sure.


 
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(Login kevin5)
24.199.163.50

+1000!!!!!

October 23 2011, 2:39 PM 



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(Login aproster)
76.214.16.51

In my eyes, and I believe many others....

October 23 2011, 8:07 AM 

That have seen this post, if that is the movement they put in this watch...
knowing that, this watch has very little to no value to me....IMHO

Makes me wonder what other corners Panerai has been cutting to up profits...

Have 150 basic movements lying around? Slap them in a luminor case with some 005 dials they have lying around.
Engrave the back and call it special...seems a royal bamboozling on Panerai's part.

They couldn't even stamp Panerai on the movement?

5K times 150...3/4 of a million dollars later, a nice profit

Seeing this movement in a "special boutique edition" whatever other BS they want to attach to it is VERY disappointing...

Thanks for opening those cases, it really opened my eyes to say the least.





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Studio City, CA


 
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Kevin O'Dell
(Login kevin5)
24.199.163.50

Hmmmm I actually think I'll be looking for one now ;-)

October 23 2011, 2:36 PM 



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(Login Stoodo)
97.103.233.184

Ugggh. Anyone want to open their 390 to see if cost cutting is there too?

October 23 2011, 2:23 AM 


 
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(Login RalphK.)
67.83.20.117

Someone Did =====>

October 23 2011, 2:50 AM 


 
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(Login stanford98)
76.102.92.30

Re: Someone Did =====>

October 23 2011, 5:23 AM 

Pictures are not available...did it look good?

 
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Christofer
(Login X2TIME)
206.248.177.168

Panerai should recall these watches.

October 23 2011, 3:50 AM 

No Panerai should have a movement that looks like that. No $5000+ watch should have a movement that looks like that, period. Panerai should recall all 150 of these watches and upgrade the movements at their expense.

I can't even believe this watch, the 390, and the 41X's don't have swan necks! 5K 6497's with no swan neck regulation? Really?

 
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(Login kevin5)
24.199.163.50

Hahahaha....really?

October 23 2011, 2:42 PM 

The people who collect Panerai now. I wish Panerai's weren't so popular so they wouldn't have to raise their prices to compete with the second hand market so that they would still be considered 'too cheap' for watch snobs. I'm glad they have progressed as a brand and now offer something to the luxury market but it's a shame when those customers bash the base models that obviously aren't for them in the first place.


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Christofer
(Login X2TIME)
206.248.177.168

Many aren't laughing...

October 23 2011, 3:48 PM 

So Panerai raises their prices to compete with the second hand market? I thought they raised their prices to make as much money as possible following a marketing and corporate strategy of limiting supply of a popular product.

I think you are misunderstanding that I, as others, are still proponents of this brand. How many times have I had to defend Panerai to someone bashing the brand making fun of its simple movements and staggering prices. I would say, or so I believed, Panerai takes apart every 6497, adds premium parts and fine tunes tolerances and finishing to create a superior Panerai 6497 movement. Then we see this movement and feel, well, let down. Like it or not, a tool watch at these prices, and they were never 'cheap', even in the 90's, is very much a luxury product. And as such we expect more.

Ask yourself this. How many would have purchased this watch, at that price, having been shown a photo of this movement beforehand? More so, how many who did buy this watch, at the price they did, would NOT have bought it knowing that the movement was finished like that?

 
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(Login kevin5)
166.137.13.110

All this just makes me laugh more.....

October 24 2011, 2:09 AM 

If people aren't laughing and aren't happy with what they got they get to sell the watch for what they paid or even make a profit. I don't see what everyone is crying about? The way a movement that isn't displayed looks? Then claiming the exact same movement would somehow be better if it was pretty? That is ridiculous to me....

And yes Panerai does raise their prices because of the second hand market and why wouldnt they. Sure they have regular price increases but look at IWC they went years without and increase, why? Because the demand wasn't as large.



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Christofer
(Login X2TIME)
206.248.177.168

I don't believe the guys who own the 318 and didn't know are laughing, mate.

October 24 2011, 2:39 AM 


 
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(Login kevin5)
166.137.14.225

Well as I said...

October 24 2011, 7:04 AM 

If they are upset that's fine a little weird to me cuz I'd still buy one but everyone has different opions and ate entitled to them BUT if they are upset they can sell the watch and not worry about losing a dime and probably profit. I just worry that the golden days of Panerai being a tool brand are coming to an end when I see this kind of commotion over a polished plate and an engraving....


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(Login kevin5)
166.137.13.110

All this just makes me laugh more.....

October 24 2011, 2:10 AM 

If people aren't laughing and aren't happy with what they got they get to sell the watch for what they paid or even make a profit. I don't see what everyone is crying about? The way a movement that isn't displayed looks? Then claiming the exact same movement would somehow be better if it was pretty? That is ridiculous to me....

And yes Panerai does raise their prices because of the second hand market and why wouldnt they. Sure they have regular price increases but look at IWC they went years without and increase, why? Because the demand wasn't as large.



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(Login Chrisfrombyron)
49.183.75.200

you may call it ' Panerai Bashing '

October 23 2011, 9:36 PM 

I call it raising valid concerns about
value for money , given the low cost of the
Unitas movement , Bonati should be
endeavouring to give his Company's loyal
customers the best value for their money ,
not the worst . FYI , I own a 005 , so don't
intone that someone who asks valid questions
is a snob !

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(Login hongT)
203.145.92.17

Unbelieveable!! It's look like a bad franken watches!! TFS!!

October 23 2011, 4:23 AM 



Cheers wink.gif
HongT

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(Login ddaneh)
60.241.9.129

thumbs up for ya, dude.

October 23 2011, 6:16 AM 

this post must be a nail on the head for those who verbally flamed you the other day. #winning

xoxo

Photobucket
www.danny-samuel.blogspot.com

 
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(Login Chrisfrombyron)
110.32.247.142

most flamed the movement ...

October 23 2011, 6:26 AM 

Not its owner , but yes , a couple
thought the photo was posted for
stir value , as it seemed impossible
Panerai would release something
like that .

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(Login addoo)
70.234.98.61

I am sorry I ever doubted you.

October 23 2011, 7:00 AM 

Wait I never doubted you. Maybe some people here owe you an apology.


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(Login gfriedell)
High Heid Yin
202.4.83.10

An apology might be in order if Neeraj had been honest in his original post >>>

October 23 2011, 11:52 AM 


He posted it as a question when in fact he knew all along that the watch was real:


Always wanted the 318, didn't get one from the boutique. Is it real?October 18 2011 at 10:05 PM
Sidekick   (Login demand-n-supply)
from IP address 166.137.136.178


Neeraj knew that by posting it as a question it would bring controversy and skepticism. Which is exactly what happened and that is exactly why it was trolling.

Had he just posted something along the lines of : "Look at the movement Panerai is using in the 318" or "The 318 has an unfinished movement, what do you think of that?"

Then we could have had a reasonable discussion about the issue.

Instead he posted it as a question of whether the watch was real which of course led to anarchy.

Had he not been deceptive with his questioning title and provided clear pictures of the watch we wouldn't be discussing this now. wink.gif

[linked image]

PhotobucketPhotobucket

 
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(Login CharlesLC)
High Heid Yin
173.49.50.101

Gary, I disagree with your characterizations ...

October 23 2011, 1:12 PM 

and presumed intent.
This has been a very worthwhile discussion for the community.

 
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(Login gfriedell)
High Heid Yin
202.4.83.10

If Neeraj did not know the whether the watch was real then it was a legitimate question...

October 23 2011, 9:49 PM 


Which I have never denied. Nor have I taken a side one way or the other whether it is an "acceptable" movement for the watch. That is a worthwhile discussion too.

Neeraj has owned enough Panerais, and probably knew the seller well enough ( he did buy it in a package with several other watches) that he knew the watch was genuine. Remember, always buy the seller wink.gif

He may not have known whether the movement was correct. But, the way the post was originally worded and subsequent responses simply added to the fire.

If I accused Neeraj of posting a fake watch I will apologize for that. I won't apologize for taking issue with the inflammatory nature of the posts. I'll also take credit for adding some fuel to the fire, and being disgusted by his attempt to bully or blackmail those who took issue with him. Perhaps the one thing I regret most about this entire incident is that I stooped to his level sad.gif For that I definitely apologize.

So, there you have it. The watch is real, the movement looks simple and unfinished. Another successful outcome wink.gif

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Sidekick
(Login demand-n-supply)
166.137.137.245

Did not know movement was correct when I posted and can get into noma.

October 24 2011, 1:05 AM 

[linked image]

And she a girl.

Received emails from members with pictures saying watch was correct. That is when I said the watch was legit not before.

Look for what's inside before you make up your mind
[linked image] [linked image] [linked image]
Saw you downtown singing the blues It's time to face the music, I'm longer your muse

 
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(Premier Login Kingsholm14)
High Heid Yin
71.155.234.76

Ok. I'm lost on the first part of the screen pic. What am I missing or what are you

October 24 2011, 2:52 AM 


Trying to say.


    
This message has been edited by Kingsholm14 from IP address 71.155.234.76 on Oct 24, 2011 2:58 AM


 
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(Login gfriedell)
High Heid Yin
202.4.83.10

Have a great time, say hi for me. Wish I could join you, but I have other commitments....

October 25 2011, 1:31 PM 



Photobucket

Ta

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(Login ddaneh)
60.241.9.129

then we all should>>

October 23 2011, 1:14 PM 

Probably try to understand people a lil better as people address things differently.
Gotta admit this whole discussion is insightful Info/knowledge though.

Btw are you in Melbourne? wink.gif

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www.danny-samuel.blogspot.com

 
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(Login gfriedell)
High Heid Yin
202.4.83.10

Beautiful city, I love it already, why am I on the forum wasting time >>>>>

October 23 2011, 9:57 PM 


On this stuff?

happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif

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PhotobucketPhotobucket

 
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(Login Adeeos)
110.77.168.57

BINGO!

October 23 2011, 2:30 PM 

I never said he bought a fake.. I said it, LOOKED LIKE a $20 fake... and that his sole intent was to make people sweat, worry, go to the AD and ask questions, pull the back off their watches,, etc,,, His post would also had NEVER been taken the way it was, or "stirred the crap" as much, if it had NOT come on the heels of many, many similar smart-a$$ed comments, troll type responses, and general, "let's see HOW much I can screw with people" post's/comments... "Newbies" thought he was being legit,, I doesn't take a PHD to see that ALL it was, was an attempt to create controversy. I'm NOT the sharpest pencil in the box, but I saw it for what it was from the beginning,, Had a newbie posted the EXACT same post, that REALLY DIDN'T know it was GEN?,,, It would have been taken a WHOLE other way... He stated several times, he KNEW it WAS legit, etc,, so WHY ask if it real?

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(Login micah249)
99.60.149.100

Well...

October 23 2011, 4:50 PM 

I'll apologize for getting into a scrap with neeraj that had nothing at all to do with his original post, thus further adding to the drama of the thread. I'd like to clear the air with him about it, hopefully neeraj you'll email me back so we can get this settled out. If not, I'll take this opportunity to apologize for getting personal in a couple of my replies, I'm sorry about that. I still don't fully understand everything that's going on between us, but I could have handled my anger a little better.

As far as the 318 goes, I never had a dog in that race one way or the other. I had heard from the beginning that Panerai used a different movement in the 318. I'm pretty surprised that they'd put a completely un-finished movement in a watch like that... but I see both sides of this one... I do agree that at the price point they command a bit of finishing is a fair thing to expect, and I also agree that a solid case back is not an excuse for a poorly finished movement... as Chris pointed out, swiss watchmaking has a long history of putting gorgeous, meticulously made movements under solid backs where 99% of the time only other watchmakers will see them... it's a matter of pride IMO.

But on the flip side, the movement in the 318 is the same movement that's in all my current Panerais I believe... cosmetic improvements are definitely nice, but underneath it all there's still a $100 movement in a multi-thousand dollar watch, so I don't want to look too closely at the price vs. movement quality issue for obvious reasons happy.gif

To me it's just a case of "Huh, that's surprising..." and then each person has to decide for themselves if this revelation means no 318, no Panerai at all or... no big deal.

________________
Micah

booked.jpg


 
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(Premier Login Kingsholm14)
High Heid Yin
71.155.234.76

I have no dog in this fight either. I hate Neeraj too. Just kidding.... Not. I am. Not

October 23 2011, 7:08 PM 

I am.
Neeraj is suffering for his history and style of replies. I have spoken to him and am hoping that my words made sense.
It's important we speak at a common sense level. Neeraj, to be honest has stretched my patience because my days get eaten up with nonsense. However I know when he speaks he tolerates no hypocrisy. He is a good man that frustrates the poo out of me. His methods don't make him right and I'm hoping he apologizes for his style too. With a little more effort he could read twice then post.
You are a good man Micah, as we all are. Keyboards were not intended for certain types, especially mathematicians and......ESP. Neeraj!

If read, I won't let this degenerate into a public opinion pole on Neeraj. He is as much loved as he is frowned upon. He is a victim of his own personality, and that's why I like this place. Personalities. Fruit cakes however!

That said, thanks Micah for starting your thread as you did. However, just for future references, anyone, and I mean anyone, who brings this forum standards down will be deleted and unwelcome to post.. It is known I really like Neeraj and that includes Neeraj....especially Neeraj and anyone who adopts an aggressive or sarcastic style.
Sermon over and personality improvements will begin. Or else !


 
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(Login giuliosax)
68.175.70.220

Neeraj is 100% Genuine Paneristi and Loves Panerai ..

October 24 2011, 12:07 AM 

he always post in his own style
which is little bit Sarcastic,that`s it
but doesn`t make him a bad person
as Neeraj is a good people person
and a truly Paneristi that Loves the Brand
and he collects lot of PAMS
like we all do
and as Skipper says
Community so much more than just a watch ...
Viva Panerai and Paneristi
Best Regards Giulio



 
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(Login ReTTo11)
50.129.144.53

Sorry Neeraj.......... Not sure why but Adam called me and threatened to beat me up if I

October 25 2011, 7:06 PM 

didn't post that I'm sorry..... lol

I still like you..... wink.gif

[linked image]

ReTTo
Chicago

 
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(Login peaceyear)
122.27.105.182

Cost cutting with 360 movement too?

October 23 2011, 8:10 AM 



 
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(Login J-F.)
90.40.250.238

Thanks for the clarification !! I've never doubted and now I'm curious to see if those >>>

October 23 2011, 10:09 AM 

who jumped on you will apologize wink.gif

 
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Sidekick
(Login demand-n-supply)
166.137.136.220

Nope they will say it's my fault still as you can see above.

October 23 2011, 11:58 AM 

This will be deleted but his post will stay

Look for what's inside before you make up your mind
[linked image] [linked image] [linked image]
Saw you downtown singing the blues It's time to face the music, I'm longer your muse

 
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(Login CharlesLC)
High Heid Yin
173.49.50.101

no, it won't. nt

October 23 2011, 1:54 PM 


 
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David Hockney
(Login davidhockney)
78.150.43.163

Panerai = what a con

October 23 2011, 11:58 AM 


I find it shocking that Panerai should put such cheap basic movements into their watches...........
the mark up on many of the Pam models with ETA movements must be sky high-
I have always loved the brand however it would appear that the smart money from now on goes on
a Rolex Deepsea or similar.............

To spend several grand on a watch with a $200 movement is just outrageous-
it's like buying a Ferrari only to lift up the bonnet to find a Nissan engine,
you'd feel ripped off.

 
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Kevin O'Dell
(Login kevin5)
166.137.13.110

You should stick to the inhouse pieces or another brand perhaps this is Panerai not Rolex

October 23 2011, 2:14 PM 

and I like it that way!

So you're saying the same exact movement is 'better' because it looks prettier?

I'd say that you're maybe looking at the wrong brand. Panerai has always outsourced cheap movements even back in the 30s 40s and 50s idk that a Rolex movement was considered to be something fancy the anglus movements came out of alarm clocks to gods sake. In the early 90s they used base eta movements which didn't have the big fancy decoration we see today however they were THE SAME movements. If the movement isn't good enough not decorated by your standards, than you're saying it would be if it looks pretty? Underneath a solid caseback? Sure I guess it would be a nice touch but not neccessary for me.

Panerai historically has been a tool brand, I hope then continue to make tool watches for years to come. If those don't suit you than an inhouse movement is probably better for you.

Panerai wasn't a luxury brand before and I think that is a huge part of it's charm, yes they hav moved in that direction and that's fine and I perhaps progression but calling them a "con" has me wonder if you're just looking at the wrong watch all together.

Funny that 318 holds a better value and was a better investment than the deepsea you mentioned....just sayin' wink.gif

Photobucket

 
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(Login Talamansca)
69.116.16.181

cheap mov of the worst kind , Panerai should change..

October 23 2011, 12:50 PM 

the mov of these watches at very least what a bummer !

th

 
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(Login Demo-man)
68.3.213.11

IMHO

October 23 2011, 3:17 PM 

Dont really care its not all pretty like.

I have more of an issue taking the $50 movement, blinging it out, then using a exhibition caseback to show it off. That to me is way more deceptive.

You can add rims and gold emblems to a dodge Pacer, but in the end it's still a Dodge Pacer.




 
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(Login Demo-man)
68.3.213.11

One more thing....

October 23 2011, 3:18 PM 

It doesnt stop me from buying or enjoying base pams at all.

 
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(Login kelsiph)
58.153.125.130

interesting....

October 23 2011, 4:09 PM 

I don't buy pams for their movements but it still bugs me that panerai would actually do this. It's definitely not good marketing. The fact that a fan site is having this debate already shows that it's not a good thing. The discussion really lies in whether earning maybe what 150*300 (let's say it costs $300 per movement decoration.....) or 45k and risk losing customer base is worth it. if they're trying so hard to develop things in house and to get into the manufacture status...why would you come up with this?

Somebody's bound to open up the watch....

Will this make me like pams less? Probably not.. Is this a standalone case and doesn't affect any of the other pieces? Yes probably... but in the end, I keep wanting to ask, wtf was panerai thinking?

 
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(Login dclark11)
205.178.84.140

Nice expose Neeraj

October 23 2011, 4:29 PM 

Perhaps Panerai should start making jewelry - then everyone can forget about what's inside. I for one would feel defrauded by such a half-assed effort by Panerai.


 
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(Login addoo)
166.147.67.148

Stop posting......

October 23 2011, 6:39 PM 

And spend more time with your daughter. She is much more important than Neeraj.

Photobucket

 
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(Login dclark11)
205.178.84.140

Just trying to pump the Panerai jewelry line so "Assange" can buy her something. nt

October 23 2011, 7:03 PM 




 
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Postnikov
(Login Postnikov)
84.60.234.42

Re: 318 pictures update. Sorry can't respond to emails

October 23 2011, 4:39 PM 

"A fool and his money will soon be parted"

 
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(Login CodyJames)
72.222.216.181

VERY Disappointing...

October 23 2011, 6:02 PM 

Thank you for posting this Neeraj. Panerai should be ashamed of putting this on the market. If you're gonna talk the talk, you better walk the walk, and Panerai has certainly not done that here. And those that personally attacked Neeraj and are still refusing to apologize, despite now knowing his true intent, should likewise be ashamed of themselves.

 
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Anonymous
(Login jegger)
86.29.181.0

Re: VERY Disappointing...

October 23 2011, 9:53 PM 

I would be returning that for a full refund.

 
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(Login Talamansca)
69.116.16.181

can we do that ? returning for a full , pls let me know,,

October 23 2011, 10:53 PM 



th

 
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L(uke)
(Login snoballz)
173.77.22.53

Instead of the Brooklyn Bridge, the Manhattan Bridge would have been more befitting. >>>

October 23 2011, 10:14 PM 


It's closer to Chinatown. wink.gif



-luke

[linked image] [linked image] [linked image]Photobucket[linked image]

 
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(Login StefB)
173.79.135.114

Dumping excess old new stock movements!

October 23 2011, 11:59 PM 

What a way to (profitably) clear the shelves of old new stock bare movements. Very disappointing.

We have to be wary whenever a watch company floods the market with LEs/SEs. Hopefully the 390 does not have this old, bare movement inside. if so, I would avoid any SE PAMs without a description of the movement.


 
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Hammer
(Login HammerHammer)
High Heid Yin
121.208.118.93

Getting into this late , mate >>>>

October 24 2011, 2:03 AM 

To be 1000% honest I rarely understand what u say , Most of the time u speak in riddles ?? and I'm 2 dumb to get it , u have a unique method of comms but as do I , I'm lost most of the time when I read your posts , sure many feel the same way about my Aussie take on cyber English , I don't think I flamed u but if u think I did fine pls accept my apology i just read >> was real or not from ur post subject title and then from one not very good (clear) image I thought it was a riddle (but I know u and know also that the chance of u buying a fake is NIL as u would have seen the boxes and extras when u got and let's be honest ur 2 smart to be taken like that) so I thought it was a riddle and thought ok I'll play ? I like a joke as much as anyone , Why I asked for images of the boxes etal was to try to understand what it was that ur post was about ?

Am I surprised at the movement ? Yes !

But at that price point perhaps the case back milling was instead of mvt milling and too keep at a price point within reach for the collector just adding more to the case back instead of the mvt ? everyone will have their own feelings about an undecorated mvt under a solid case back and the price point no worries there !!

Anyway we can all debate & discuss our feelings toward the mvt , which is what the forum is about , 99% of people will never open the watch as after u really should use a new seal or at least coat the seal gasket in something like S-916 silicone greaser but again that's to each his own , personally I'd rather have that case back with that mvt better than the other way round fwiw anyway !

And I think the post was kinda the straw that broke the camels back after some posts of yours recent within a few years , I can think of a couple and that's OK everyone is entitled to enjoy their own thinking but truly much of the time ur riddles can get lost in translation , anyway ...

I don't for one second think u would buy a fake after seeing the package and knowing the seller , which is why I thought it was a riddle ! Looking at that one image that was I'm sure not much to go by , couldn't really even see the case back , again I thought what is this about , hope fwiw that makes sense wink.gif

I really would have posted a subject like >>> (CHECK OUT THE MVT ON MY NYC PAM) but I believe ur intent was to show that mvt was almost fake looking and the image surely suggested same ! Guess it's a riddle that I didn't get , what's new wink.gif

Wish I had more time to better express so much more but have to take what I can get for now and move forward , enjoy ur watch I think if I lived in NY it would be a grail I'd never part with happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif

.

Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos


So much MORE than just a Watch wink.gif

What Watch ,, it's the M8TES behind my brand that I LOVE ,, the Watch is just the GPS wink.gifwink.gif

A decade on ,, I COPY it now ,, More than EVER b4 >> it's a PANERAI behind every Panerai is a PANERISTI happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif

And dat , SIMPLY blows me away ,, U Bet....................... BBQ Drew RIP wink.gif
[linked image]
[linked image]
Feel the Passion ,, Respect the DNA ,, Cheers Beers ,,, Hoo Roo Hammer happy.gifsad.gif
Photobucket Pictures, Images and PhotosPhotobucket Pictures, Images and Photos
Photobucket Pictures, Images and PhotosPhotobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

 
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Sidekick
(Login demand-n-supply)
166.137.138.41

A friend bought a painting of his at a famous auction house a few Years ago

October 24 2011, 2:50 PM 

He did not open the package until now. (years later) Turns out the painting is fake. Now it's too late to get a refund.


Moral of this story is you can never trust the seller unless you bought the item direct. Yes artists Bid on their own artwork to protect the price.


I did not know the seller directly and with the recent lawsuits You never know what is real or not. You can not bring a watch to Panerai to have them check if it is real/ or stolen like the Patek or Rolex. I never saw pictures of the watches just a list with a price.


Most likely the movement was not engraved to save time, not money. You would have to take apart the movement to engrave it. Watch would have been delayed for months.

Retail was 4400 for the 318, the 41x retail is 5100 which includes the , engraved movement , engraved case back, pig dial, SE box and cert. .




Look for what's inside before you make up your mind
[linked image] [linked image] [linked image]
Saw you downtown singing the blues It's time to face the music, I'm longer your muse

 
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(Login MichaelG86)
76.166.160.31

I've come late to this controversy, but...

October 24 2011, 2:19 AM 

I think it's a letdown for Panerai to release a watch with this level of lack of finishing on the movement. For the price, they should provide a modicum of finishing - at least what you'd see on a 000 or 005. If I bought one of these watches, I'd be upset to be honest.

 
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(Login nhattruyen)
222.253.141.143

Thank you Neeraj, you are like >>>

October 24 2011, 4:48 AM 

the child in "The emperor's new clothes" happy.gif I hope those who have attacked you have sent an apology by mail, after all a PAM will make you a 'risti but not necessarily a Gentleman!

Nhat

 
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(Login zameenzahari)
171.161.56.16

I like what you have shared re the 318 regardless of how it was "presented">>

October 24 2011, 9:04 AM 

for that, I thank you. It's an eye opener for sure. Was I surprised by it? Yes, of course...only thing is as the history of collecting PAMs has shown.....maybe some day in the future (10/20 years) a WTS for 318 maybe something along the lines...

FS: Unique and one of a kind Brooklyn Bridge PAM 318..the only PAM EVER with its movement untouched by OP.....>>>

far fetched? Maybe but who knows rite wink.gif


 
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(Login evertech)
210.24.214.195

Yeah. Agreed.. you never know.. (nt)

October 24 2011, 7:08 PM 

zzzz...... nt

[linked image]

 
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(Login giuliosax)
68.175.70.220

Pam 318 mvmt like the Pam 203

October 24 2011, 10:33 PM 

IMHO
they tried to do something like the 203
with the movement not decorated

but instead they did a nice engraved on the back case of the Brooklyn Bridge
that makes u wonder
that they are also the twin towers behind those colons
in gray shadows ..
Tribute to 9/11

Just my 2 cents

Best Regards Giulio


 
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psv
(Login 1point4)
69.143.11.251

I'm shocked! It's like putting a 2 cyl engine in [insert-car-of-choice]

October 24 2011, 7:22 PM 

I followed the post leading up to this, I thought for sure it was a fugazzi. I used to own this watch, even bought it at the Boutique and everything. There is no possible excuse for this!

I didn't like Richemont before this as they are famous for being a marketing/branding machine, now I like them even less.

 
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PC
(Login jdm_z33)
114.46.213.7

Pic from my wife's 104

October 25 2011, 3:33 AM 

Wow, I must say I'm shocked! Because I've opened my wife's 104 previously and the movement was at least polished

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]
By [URLhttp://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdm_z33]jdm_z33[/URL] at 2010-09-08

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]
By [URLhttp://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdm_z33]jdm_z33[/URL] at 2010-09-08

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]
By [URLhttp://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdm_z33]jdm_z33[/URL] at 2010-09-08

 
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Pat
(Login saisaiba)
202.127.172.136

Disappointed

October 25 2011, 5:30 AM 

Panerai has it totally wrong this time....

Someone might argue, a decorated movement doesn't make it work better and we all know Panerai uses ETA and it's a tool watch....BUT

if asethetic value doesn't count, no one should be buying PP, VC, AP, etc...Luxury watch is all about asthetic value, inside or outside. And with what Panerai is charging us, it's hardly arguable that it's not a luxury brand.

 
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(Login Underskoterskan)
46.162.77.215

An even greater scandal...

October 30 2011, 7:02 PM 

...than the lack of basic decoration is the fact they didn't even bother to choose the Top or Chronometré version of the movement. As you all know, ETA movements are manufactured in four different grades; standard, elaboré, top and chronometré. The most significant gap in performance is an Elaboré versus a Top, the Top is superior due to the fact that it has a Glucydur-balance among other top-of-the-shelf features. I can't tell from the pictures whether the movement used is a Standard or Elaboré, but it sure isn't a Top or Chronometré-version of the movement since the balance is nickelgilded and therefor it must be either Standard or Elaboré. That being said; guys, there's absolutely nothing that separates this movement from the movement in any of the $500 (or less) watches using the same movement. When it comes to future servicing of the watch, i don't expect Panerai to dismantle the movement in the ordinary fashion for cleaning. It would be cheaper to simply put a new movement into it and throw the old one away. The movement isn't even stamped, so no one could tell anyway. This is shocking indeed.

Decorations means nothing to performance, but it shows that the manufacturer has made an effort and is without doubts necessary in any watch in this price range, in fact i cant think of a single movement at this price that isn't decorated, solid caseback or not. Just look at the great deal of attention to detail Breitling puts into their Caliber 17 when it comes to decoration and optimizing the rate to justify the choice of ETA 2824-2, and not a single one of them are being sold with a see-through caseback. At a certain price range, you simply expect that proper attention has been given to the movement.

The fact that Panerai didn't even bother to choose the slightly more expensive but vastly superior Top-version of the movement is indeed shocking. I simply can't believe the stupidity of the folks in charge of the company, for a few bucks in cost saving they're putting their entire reputation and trust in dangerous hazard.

/Undersköterskan

 
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