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Christian, please note rule 8 above.

May 17 2017 at 1:45 PM

Christian Lückert  (Login Panerai-1950)
Paneristi
from IP address 130.180.93.66

Or did you already know the answer?
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This message has been edited by Asimut from IP address 79.178.17.67 on May 17, 2017 4:55 PM


 
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Rapers
(Login rapers)
Paneristi
86.23.28.49

Sorry, Christian, I'm not going to bid

May 17 2017, 4:18 PM 

Money that I give to charity usually goes to medical research or children’s charities and we have many, many worthwhile causes here at home in the UK.
Also, I'm sure it must be an age thing (being an old dinosaur such as I am), but I have to tell you that I wouldn’t let those ghastly straps into my house, let alone onto one of my watches!
My Panerai watches are things of beauty. Those straps are not.
Of course, this is just a personal point of view. I know there will be those who will disagree.

 
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CF
(Login stronzix)
Paneristi
204.153.60.10

Rapers, so, you think Corrigia straps sucks?!

May 17 2017, 10:10 PM 

If you don't mind sharing, why such animosity toward the Corrigia strap? I do own one of his straps and must tell you, it is definitely not my number 1 wink.gif -- But, I think overall, it is too bad... let me know your thoughts.

 
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Rapers
(Login rapers)
Paneristi
86.23.28.49

Bedtime here in London. Will reply tomorrow. nt

May 17 2017, 10:50 PM 

nt

 
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panerik
(Login panerik)
Paneristi
50.233.192.101

If you want to talk about ghastly, I will refresh your recollection...

May 18 2017, 4:30 AM 

...and invite you to recall that hideously cheap looking bracelet you used to deface your "thing of beauty..." I don't want to dig up the picture as it will turn our wrists to stone...

And the self righteousness regarding the charity is really the only thing that was ghastly about this thread...your patronizing remarks to Christian (who has done a trmendous amount go charitable endeavours since I have been posting on this site) is mildly offensive at best but probably more like obnoxious and dour... Just my opinion, of course, with all due respect; and keeping in mind that some may disagree...

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DesmoFan
(Login DesmoFan)
Paneristi
74.71.161.121

LOL... Awesome nt

May 18 2017, 5:42 AM 


 
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Rapers
(Login rapers)
Paneristi
86.23.28.49

The purpose of a public forum............

May 18 2017, 8:50 AM 

is to act as a place where ideas and opinions can be freely expressed as long as those ideas and opinions comport with the rules of the forum.

You didn’t like my bracelet a little while ago? Absolutely fine with me. I quite like it. You expressed your opinion. It differs from mine. No problem with that.

I didn’t like the straps being auctioned? I expressed an opinion (on reflection, maybe a little too strongly). You disagree? No problem with that.

Self-righteous? Patronising? What tosh! I merely expressed my opinion as to the types of charity to which I choose to donate. I agree wholeheartedly that Christian’s a good chap – here our opinions coincide – and I made no criticism of him.

You seem to espouse the view that any critical or dissenting opinion has no place here in the Public Forum. If anything could be regarded as mildly offensive, obnoxious, and dour...................

 
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panerik
(Login panerik)
Paneristi
50.233.192.101

If you want to have an intellectual sparring match with me, I suggest...

May 18 2017, 10:01 AM 

...you at least show up to the ring...you said it yourself, Simon...you took a nice thing and expressed an overly strong negative opinion...in my opinion, a 180 degree turn from class...

The key word in your post above is "merely..." That seems to be your contribution, lately...

I espouse the view that we should treat people with kindness and respect until they no longer deserve to be treated that way...you yourself admitted that your so-called "opinion" was overly critical...

So apologise and be done with it...learn from it and move on...or don't...I really couldn't care less
[linked image]

 
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Rapers
(Login rapers)
Paneristi
86.23.28.49

I can't argue with you........

May 18 2017, 11:06 AM 

because this last post of yours contains too many non sequiturs.
Please put together something cogent and logical.

 
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CF
(Login stronzix)
Paneristi
172.58.21.62

I must admit E. got this one...... ROFL!! <nt>

May 19 2017, 3:52 AM 


 
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Ferry
(Login ferry.monne)
Paneristi
37.48.83.151

there is a world beyond the UK, really

May 18 2017, 8:55 AM 

I respect your donations you do in the UK for good causes, but I have a problem that as the world traveller you are not feeling obliged to look at noble initiatives beyond the UK borders like this one.

Charity for children never reaches every child, but most of the time just a small group of children and the ones not in the limelight miss the boat. Same goes for medical research, rare diseases most of the time don't even get air-time, like lung cancer, heart diseases and diabetics get all the attention, not just for a noble cause, there is also an enormous industry depending on it. If you are very concerned about children, I could start a new charity program for children in India every week, you have been here, you must have seen the need.

Going now fast forward to the charity initiative of the Paneristi Club Germany who have as part of being a registered club in Germany an objective and goal to raise funds for charity every year, you can't always focus on one good cause otherwise people will turn blind and deaf.

So this year it is the Duomo in Florence the Paneristi Club Germany want to support with a donation made possible by the Paneristi community. They need something that moves Paneristi to open their wallets that makes a substantial donation even possible, straps could be a motivator.

Cengio did his part, put his blood, sweat and tears, material and labour hours in creating 5 straps for this charity initiative, this can only be called noble.

You can always not like certain straps made by certain strap makers, what is nice or not is a personal preference.

Criticizing the design of the straps Cengio made for this initiative is in this case to my opinion not a respectful thing to do. If at all you would win one of the auctions, you could donate the strap to one who does appreciate design and feels happy with it. In the essence the bid on the auction is to donate for a noble cause and not by definition get a strap at a super-price.

Sometimes it is better to say nothing than unnecessary criticize by sharing your personal point of view and opinion that could hurt those who try to do something for a good cause and pro bono.

My 2 cents (or 1.5 INR)


Best regards,
Ferry

Dutchman living in India, Panerista since 2014 and learning
PAM389 and PAM372 and a bunch of straps

www.paneristi.nl

[linked image]

 
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Christian Lückert
(Login Panerai-1950)
Paneristi
130.180.93.66

Sorry Asi!

May 18 2017, 6:27 AM 

Hi my friends,

is rule No.8 new? Is it necessary to delete my post directly? Yes, perhaps it was wrong not to contact one of the mods before posting, my failure. What´s wrong to do good things to other people, in this case to do something good to the Duomo of Florence.

And the discussion about the straps? I don´t think that these straps are "Uglydolls", Cengi has donated them for this action, he has spend his time for making them and for this hes has my deepest respect. Cengi you are great!

I can accept your decision, it´s your playground, thank´s for your support, but I think especially in this "Panerai community" it´s normal to help each other that´s the Panerai spirit we all so love and why we are here!


Have a good day.

Kind regards

Christian
[linked image]

 
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Ferry
(Login ferry.monne)
Paneristi
37.48.83.151

so , in that case follow the rule no. 8

May 18 2017, 8:26 AM 

Hi Christian,

I know that the Paneristi Club Germany organized a charity inititiave last year as well and that one was for a facility that helps very ill children and their parents. A first one an a noble thing to initiate and execute.

Charity doesn't always need to be only for poor or sick children and I believe that supporting a heritage site a noble thing to do as well.

Better go back to start, get approval from the moderators and post it again!

I salute Cengi for at least putting his energy, time and material in the donation of straps for this new charity initiative, true Paneristi spirit!

Best regards,
Ferry

Dutchman living in India, Panerista since 2014 and learning
PAM389 and PAM372 and a bunch of straps

www.paneristi.nl

[linked image]

 
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DON
(Login DONAG)
Paneristi
173.33.211.102

Doubt you will get permission to list them again >>>

May 18 2017, 8:37 AM 

As it seems to be an easier way of self promoting his straps on the public forum.

So what happens when other strap makers start doing it. Not for charity, but to get their name out there rather than use the sale forum and use charity as an excuse.

Sorry, but this type of charity post doesn't belong here. Let him donate a portion of his sales to charity and sell them like the other sellers on this forum.

DON
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Ferry
(Login ferry.monne)
Paneristi
37.48.83.151

another story of another strap maker that might open your eyes

May 18 2017, 9:12 AM 

Hi Don,

You know some strap makers are indeed very nice people who create things not only by becoming filthy rich, but sometimes indeed want to give back to the community, donate their work to support a good cause.

A very good example that happened about a year ago when a fellow watch enthusiast his wife was brutally shot while driving back home after spending a nice weekend together. Stephen Dumpert took the initiative to get people together to collect enough money to buy the poor guy a PAM372, get him to the Philly GTG and show him what a warm heart this community has. Within a few hours the money was there, a PAM372 was bought. I took the initiative to contact a few strap makers from around the world and guess what, they all said yes, the only thing they needed was the address to send them to.

There was one strap maker from the Netherlands, Remie Beijer, he was a small player, still wanted to donate a strap, he had to make a strap and he had to finish it to reach it on time to the GTG.

He showed me the progress of the strap he was making, I told him that he should share the progress of his work in the secret FB Messenger Group, there was one who did not completely understand why a strap maker was sharing a strap in the making, the moment I jumped in and shared that Remie was working his *** off to get a strap ready as he doesn't have straps in stock to send and had to sacrifice his weekend for it, the mood flipped and there was mentioned that the Paneristi spirit of years ago has returned, people who are just being nice and do something for other people.

I know that Trump makes thing sound very suspicious lately, but I have not heard of strap makers who aspire a political career yet....

Best regards,
Ferry

Dutchman living in India, Panerista since 2014 and learning
PAM389 and PAM372 and a bunch of straps

www.paneristi.nl

[linked image]

 
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eric s.
(Login hkgweilo)
High Heid Yin
58.153.201.159

Well, this has nothing to do with Trump...

May 18 2017, 9:49 AM 

"Strap makers" (unfortunately) have a reputation for a reason going back many, many years. ...yes there are several good ones out there but many unscrupulous ones who prefer to use this public forum to promote their wares rather than go to the trouble and expense of setting up their own websites.

I love the stories like Ferry pointed out. Making and changing straps is what makes Panerai watches so much fun. But when it becomes a business for people, ethics occasionally take a back seat.


But what really pissed me off was the self-righteousness of Christian's reply to Asi. Oh..since HE thinks it's worthy then of course it must be...and then the classic passive-aggressive "it's your playground...... but I think especially in this "Panerai community" it's normal to help each other".



    
This message has been edited by hkgweilo from IP address 58.153.201.159 on May 18, 2017 9:52 AM


 
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Ferry
(Login ferry.monne)
Paneristi
182.69.249.29

I guess I am naive

May 18 2017, 9:58 AM 

I probably see to much at the good sides of people and am not aware of what evil things happened in the past, I am only around here since mid 2014....

Best regards,
Ferry

Dutchman living in India, Panerista since 2014 and learning
PAM389 and PAM372 and a bunch of straps

www.paneristi.nl

[linked image]

 
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eric s.
(Login hkgweilo)
High Heid Yin
58.153.201.159

Nothing wrong with your post Ferry...

May 18 2017, 10:06 AM 



As I said, I love stories like you recounted..

 
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DON
(Login DONAG)
Paneristi
173.33.211.102

There is a difference your not seeing >>>

May 18 2017, 10:38 AM 

The straps were made and donated at a private GTG and posted on a FB page.

Big difference than using this sites public forum or any site with rules

If the German site wants to do it. That's their business or if he wants to use the sales corner to advertise. Not a problem, but not the public forum as then it looks more about free advertising than charity.

DON
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Ferry
(Login ferry.monne)
Paneristi
182.69.249.29

I see a difference

May 18 2017, 11:37 AM 

The difference I see and what I probably must have missed is a decade of an evil war between strapmakers.

The German site you refer to is not a private initiative, it is the website of an official Paneristi Club in Germany, as part of their yearly objectives is organizing a charity. Last year quite a few strap makers donated for the charity of that year, this year they decided to do it different by putting up straps on auction, the straps are donated by one of their members, in this case Cengio. If either of them would see a business opportunity in this I have no doubt they would have a monthly auction of straps, this is not the case, it is just a one time thing.

I do not judge whether it is appropriate of them to post the charity initiative here on this forum, there are rules that need be followed, I leave that judgement up to the moderators.

What I do see is that sometimes threads are looked at from the darkest and most evil side possible, where in real fellow Risti are just sharing their passion with no commercial intention.

I can assure you that a person like Christian is not depending on making any money on Panerai or straps, he doesn't need that. I wish I had his collection of Panerai watches. He is as one of the board member of this registered club on a voluntarily basis and has to pay his yearly membership fee as any other member of this club. Just to highlight that there are no cutting corners here.

I just share with you what I know about this German Paneristi Club, they are still small as a club and still take things completely by the book and are trying to explore new things, destination and initiatives. Some might be very successful, some not at all, but there is no profit maximization here. As a Dutchman we sometimes laugh about how serious and strict organized our German neighbors can be, at the same time we envy them for that gift happy.gif


Best regards,
Ferry

Dutchman living in India, Panerista since 2014 and learning
PAM389 and PAM372 and a bunch of straps

www.paneristi.nl

[linked image]

 
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