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PAM 512 crown issue

September 1 2017 at 3:56 PM
Mohanish  (Login mohanish)
from IP address 49.207.117.129

Hi,

Who all have experienced or seen crown issues with a Radiomir 1940?

I have a strange issue with my PAM 512 at 3.5 years of ownership and it really surprises me. The time changes with rotating the crown at every pull stage and even when I screw the crown back in. The watch cannot be wound and used anymore.

Strange thing is that the Panerai Country Manager want me to come in for a full service and claims that 3.5 years is prime for a full service as it is due (per him) at 4 years. I thought Panerai recommends a service at 5 years, and realistically who goes in for a service at 5 years unless the watch has undergone rough use. I thought Panerai built sport / tool watches and pitched them as tanks..

I've always worn this watch carefully and wound and used it even more carefully. Abuse by the owner is out of the question.

Any suggestions / recommendations would be helpful.

Thank you.


 
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AuthorReply
Carlos
(Login cquilichini)
Paneristi
162.220.99.110

PAM512 is a dress watch

September 1 2017, 5:05 PM 

My friend, the PAM 512 is a delicate watch. it has a P.999 mechanical movement and it should be treated as a dress watch. This is not your typical Luminor Marina tough watch.... I guess the full service is in order....

 
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Andy
(Login Ayer)
Paneristi
82.38.249.176

It's not a question of being tough

September 1 2017, 9:06 PM 

It should be able to take normal usage without falling apart after a few years at that price point. Sadly however the in house movements aren't proving to be as reliable as the old ETA and Valjoux based calibers. I was amazed when one dealer I chatted with said he had a drawer full of broken Panerai and his biggest problem was with their new manual movements. Until then I was only aware of a couple of issues with automatics like Ferry's. I wouldn't expect things to go wrong in the first five years, if they do it's almost certainly a manufacturing defect and given their current quality assurance record of similar issues you shouldn't be paying. If it needs a service now that's down to Panerai no matter when the guarantee ran out. It's such a shame too because the P.999 is about the only manual in house movement worth looking at.

 
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Mohanish
(Login mohanish)
49.207.117.129

Re: It's not a question of being tough

September 2 2017, 4:30 AM 

I totally agree with you, this is on the brand to fix and redeem their reputation. Its a shame that such quality issues are cropping up with such a cult and much loved brand. When you're not ready to build a robust in-house you're just better off staying with ETA / Valjoux. The greed to command high prices with in-house calibers seems to have backfired on them.

I've always worn, wound and stored this watch very carefully and such technical issues after such diligent and careful behavior are shocking to me.

 
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Ferry
(Login ferry.monne)
Paneristi
122.173.86.210

And do not forget the banking of the PAM372 P.3000 movement

September 2 2017, 7:48 AM 

Thanks Andy for sharing your dealer experience.

The retarded advise that we have been getting from the Officine Panerai Middle East office is beyond words and the country manager for India is level 2.0

The same country manager also handled my case with my PAM329 and we know how that ended, they had to take him out of the communication with me to and finally agree that indeed something was really wrong with my watch.

Now that I recall what the Richemont Service Center mentioned to me last week only that the staff is only starting to measure the movement accuracy after 30 minutes after a full winding is alarming, as this gives them the opportunity to change the reality of the reliability of a movement, this could have very much been the case with my PAM329 as well and the present banking issue with my PAM372 all of the sudden makes sense, the design the movements that way just to squeeze out the few extra hours of power reserve with a possible banking problem.

I know that some really do not care at all about the accuracy of a Panerai watch, there are enough people like me who bought a watch and expect it delivers its promise like the accuracy tests mentions in the warranty booklet and their own standards and not just for the first 3 months of the watch being used. Every Panerai watch for me still means a lot of hard working money I have to spend.
Best regards,
Ferry

Dutchman, Panerista since 2014 and learning
PAM389 and PAM372 and a bunch of straps

www.paneristi.nl

[linked image]

 
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azcii
(Login azcii)
Paneristi
212.247.216.66

My 736 has the same issue with the P3000

September 12 2017, 10:50 AM 

My PAM736 has the same banking issue. Not sure if I will send it in, it banks for a couple of minutes and then it runs great.

 
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Mohanish
(Login mohanish)
49.207.117.129

Re: PAM512 is a dress watch

September 2 2017, 4:24 AM 

I've always thought of this watch as a delicate Panerai and was never carried away to use it like a Luminor or a sport Rolex. It has never seen anything extreme and has been worn, wound and stored very carefully. Even after all this the components fall apart and this is what really surprises me. To me this is clearly a manufacturing flaw and on the brand to fix it and redeem their reputation.

 
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Ferry
(Login ferry.monne)
Paneristi
122.173.86.210

and checking your watch just before the warranty expires, crazy!

September 2 2017, 7:36 AM 

Hi Mohanish,

We have been discussing this separately and wanted to add the ridiculous advice you got from the Officine Panerai India Country Manager to have your watch checked just before the warranty of the watch expires.

Are more people here doing just that and with all their watches as this is the very first time I am hearing this and it doesn't not give a lot of confidence in the quality of the product!!

You need to push this as a "goodwill" case by Officine Panerai, after just 3 ½ years of use a part like the crown function should not break down just like that.

Best regards,
Ferry

Dutchman, Panerista since 2014 and learning
PAM389 and PAM372 and a bunch of straps

www.paneristi.nl

[linked image]

 
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DON
(Login DONAG)
Paneristi
173.33.211.102

Sounds like the clutch wheel is not slipping back into the winding position >>

September 2 2017, 1:28 PM 

Bad spring for the clutch arm or maybe there wasn't enough lubrication and what there was has worn away and clutch arm is sticking.

Has to go in. Being an inhouse movement. If a part is needed. Not going to get it anywhere else.

They should repair for free due to the age, but thats a wait and see

DON
3333.JPG

 
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Mohanish
(Login mohanish)
49.207.100.115

Re: Sounds like the clutch wheel is not slipping back into the winding position >>

September 4 2017, 8:15 AM 

This could be a possible diagnosis for the issue ans yes the part would only be available with the brand. Unfortunately the brand management where I am based is giving me the greedy-for-service vibes and keeps saying that the watch should be serviced just before 2 years and then a full service at 4 years.

 
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DON
(Login DONAG)
Paneristi
173.33.211.102

Load of crap - is this a sales person saying this or manager? >>

September 4 2017, 1:08 PM 

I would go to the Panerai web site and email customer service

You can do the run around and put Switzerland as residence and then explain in the message box whats going on or call customer service in Switzerland and hope you and the agent has a good command of English to get to the root of the problem

Tel: 41 22 5802949

DON
3333.JPG

 
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LT
(Login latoyii)
Paneristi
24.210.202.161

We had similar issues......

September 3 2017, 4:56 PM 

Within 6-months of getting a 512 for my wife, we experienced similar problems. The problem was fixed by the AD watch technician and returned to us. It has been perfect since. Good luck with yours.

 
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Ferry
(Login ferry.monne)
Paneristi
182.69.250.20

What was the diagnose

September 4 2017, 7:39 AM 

My wife also has a PAM512 and its good to know if this is a common problem with the PAM512 or a rare thing to happen.

Did your AD watch technician give you any feedback on what he found and what he did to rectify the issue?

I look forward to your reply!

Best regards,
Ferry

Dutchman, Panerista since 2014 and learning
PAM389 and PAM372 and a bunch of straps

www.paneristi.nl

[linked image]

 
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Mohanish
(Login mohanish)
49.207.100.115

Re: We had similar issues......

September 4 2017, 8:10 AM 

Hi,

Thank you for your response.

It is disappointing to hear that you had to go through this at the 6 month milestone already.

May I know what the technical issue was and how complicated or how long it took for the fix?

Thanks,

Mohanish

 
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Mohanish
(Login mohanish)
49.207.126.145

PAM 512 Crown Issue Resolved

September 11 2017, 1:22 PM 

Hi,

To all who chimed in to help (Thank You) and all of you who get to this thread either in curiosity or are facing the same issue at some point down the line (hope not), the issue has since been resolved by my AD's watchmaker.

When you flip the watch to see the movement, there is a small screw (visible from the caseback), which is just between the the first winding wheel and the crown. This screw goes into another mechanism / hook / clutch which in turn holds crown in place internally. In the case of my watch this very screw had come loose and this is what caused the crown to malfunction.

Prior to the fix, when I was demonstrating the issue to the AD, the crown had completely fallen off the case and was in my hand - I was simply unscrewing it and hadn't even got to the the time changing position and hadn't pulled it out at all.

During this entire experience the communication from the country manager here was way below expectation and he couldn't instill any confidence in me that he knew what he was talking about. I had made a video of the issue and asked him to share it with his technical team to get a high level discussion going and he didn't even do that. I had to request this before sending my watch in for 6 - 8 weeks (timeline mentioned by him) to people I didn't have much confidence in. The individual was very motivated to have watch completely serviced.

I've begun to see two things here:

1. Panerai is churning out watches and movements so quickly that they are not being able to test them appropriately and maintain consistent and reliable quality across the board. Are they biting off more than they can chew? The in-house price tag is a very lucrative spot to business in.

2. The staff in some regions is not up to the mark. I understand that not everyone working in the watch industry is as passionate about watches as some of us on these forums are. But at some point, if you've got to stop and ask yourself just how much of the industry are you being able to seep in and can you really deliver to your customer who is a passionate watch collector and a customer of the luxury watch industry. Callous and uninformed behavior at customer facing and senior roles is just not acceptable.

Thanks,

Mohanish

 
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