Panerai 6152-1 Marina Militare sold today at PhillipsOctober 27 2017 at 4:01 AM
N.G. (Login nadavgalimidi)
from IP address 18.104.22.168
For a measly 85K. ($106,250 out the door) Comparing to a Christie's 2013 result of ~$265,800 for a similar watch.
The 6152 sold within 54 seconds. Probably the saddest lot in the entire sale. 2 1/2 bidders. (two bidders vs. the book...). Almost zero interest and/or excitement...
Grim result for the 3646 Cali dial as well at 60K... (75K out the door)
While a 1016 Explorer sold for 40K
A Heuer Monaco for 42.5K
And a Tudor 7032 for a hair under 119K...
I wonder if Panerai is going to post today's auction results on their website like they proudly did back in 2014....
I'm guessing the answer is no...
Christies model appears to be in nicer condition >>
|October 27 2017, 4:13 AM |
than the other two, but don't think Panerai cares anymore. Past is the past and all they care about is what's ahead
They're pretty much damaged the value of older models by recreating modern versions and latest is the Mare which is close to an exact copy which I'm sure will hurt the values of the older models.
Like my two watches, but have no interest in acquiring any more
Is it $140K nicer though? 😂
|October 27 2017, 4:32 AM |
Vintage Panerai value (and the brand's value as a whole) was not damaged by re-creation of vintage pieces...
Omega also made a 60th Anniversary 2915-1 Speedy re-edition (almost a 1:1 copy), and just yesterday a real vintage 2915-1 sold for a record $275,000..
I am copying your last statement because it is true for me as well:
"Like my two watches, but have no interest in acquiring any more"
Big difference on the Omega is very few and far between >>
|October 27 2017, 12:53 PM |
Yes the Omega sold for a lot, but very rare, so a recreation isn't going to affect the value when your talking 275K vs. $7200
Now a $9K new vs. $15K Mare is another story
Would you pay the extra $6k est. For a 20 year old watch over a brand new with warranty for almost an identical model?
|October 27 2017, 10:28 AM |
On a downturn these days as it seems from the auction result and it's primarily due to the company's greed and some qc issues imho
|October 27 2017, 12:08 PM |
As someone who has followed the brand for almost two decades, I think it's fair to say that Panerai hit a pick a few years ago. These vintage pieces are not , in my opinion, representative of the brand as a whole. How many people are actually bidding on a piece like that? Maybe a couple dozen, and now it's only a couple? Rather small sample size.
Also, It always amazes me how people like to buy something at its peak...stay away from stocks if that is your mentality. Lol
In my opinion, if you desire a vintage Panerai piece, now might be a time to start looking to buy. On the other hand, I would run like hell from anything vintage Rolex. The market is flooded with inventory in most cases and the prices simply don't make sense . Wait for the fall of the Rolex market, which in my opinion is surely coming.
To each their own but I prefer to buy things on sale, and I certainly don't let the habits of others dictate what I like to wear.
The real travesty
|October 27 2017, 1:16 PM |
Is $42k for a Monaco and $118k for a freaking Tudor. I mean really?
|October 27 2017, 2:27 PM |
The vintage market is extremely volatile and is usually propped up by a handful of individuals. When their taste or flavor changes, and the bottom drops out and something else becomes hot . The case of Rolex is really interesting because most of these "vintage" subs and GMT were produced in the hundreds of thousands.
I tend to just keep my head down, chuckle, buy what I like, and look at things like real estate and stocks for my investments... not watches
are we not gonna talk about paul newman's "paul newman"
|October 27 2017, 2:43 PM |
that's crazy...i love how whoever bid second jumped it right into big boy territory!!
Mike...NYC. My collection so far is a 312 and some cool straps.
How is this any different than art or antique markets?
|October 27 2017, 3:25 PM |
Priced go up and down based upon tastes when dealing with antique or scarce items.
Nothing goes up forever and if you're looking at watches as an investment vehicle, I have some land to sell you.
Ask about my loyalty program.
Erleichda! Pura Vida!
The vintage craze
|October 27 2017, 4:05 PM |
The craze for vintage Panerai has waned for sure, but it was way too damn high, so how could it be sustainable.
Now, vintage Heuer and vintage Tudor are going bananas. The prices those are getting right now are nuts, and in five years I would guess they won't hold that. I mean..... it's all personal preference, but to me that Heuer is ugly AF.
My guess is that there are a small group of influential collectors working with auction houses to drive these prices to insane levels, the same way they do in the art world. I love vintage watches, but even if I was a billionaire, I'm not paying over a hundred grand for a beat up old Tudor.
Of course I'd pay 20 million for anything Paul Newman wore though. Paul Newman's tighty whiteys?
Vintage Tag and Tudor
|October 27 2017, 4:22 PM |
Couple reasons based on my jaded observations: Tag today is a mall watch. It's not looked upon with excited tones, and it shouldn't. Conversely, Tudor is effectively the millennial's Rolex, and similarly lacks provenance -- I don't care who the parent company is. In fact, to me it hurts the brand as an aspirational piece to settle for. For these reasons, I think the vintage stuff that came out 40 years ago is overvalued, because it isn't watered down by what those brands became over time.
Tudor has been around as long as Rolex >>
|October 27 2017, 6:03 PM |
Both names created on or about 1926. Although Rolex did have the better movements and case designs. Would people still feel the same way about if James Bond didn't wear one and chose a Tudor instead?
The older Tudor sub 7928 models are pretty equal in value if not more than the 5513 models of the same year
Same for Heuer. It's value was damaged by the purchase by Tag and turned into a junk watch, but the original Heuer models were popular and highly collected and some people associate certain nmodels with popular race car drivers.
Could be that model had a dial design produced for a short time. The Tudor. Again another short time production design.
Collectors of everything and some know more than others. What means little to some means a lot to others
|October 30 2017, 1:12 AM |
The issue is what the brand is now, not when it debuted. I think we're agreeing without knowing it, in the sense that collectors do know the history and THAT is precisely why they go after the older stuff with real provenance. And again, as we know, collectors in these bidding wars drive costs (I won't say values) up artificially.
The weird thing to me is how happy you seem to be about it.
|October 28 2017, 3:28 AM |
|October 28 2017, 5:00 PM |
You cant say measly 85k! Measly compared to paul newman but stil crazy money!
|October 29 2017, 11:22 PM |