Alright this is probably not going to happen, but here is what I think would be the best possible divisions for the league. If this is how it really turned out MACHA would be the most well rounded and competitive league in D2 hockey.

(These are in no particular order)

Gold:
1) ISU- Redbirds
2) Iowa- Gold
3) SIUE- Gold
4) MSU Maroon
5) Mizzou Gold
6) SLU
7) Lindenwood D2
8) RMU-Maroon
9) Illinois D2

Silver:
1) MSU White
2) Purdue
3) RMU Peoria
4) RMU Springfield
5) McKendree
6) Eastern Illinois
7) Northern Illinois
8) Kansas
9) Loyola
10) ISU- Icebirds

Bronze:
1) SIUE JV
2) Bradley
3) Northwestern
4) Marquette
5) Mizzou Black
6) Western
7) Wheaton
8) Iowa- Black
9) RMU- White

Explanations:
-Forget about the past! Lindenwood, RMU Maroon, and Illinois D2 left the MACHA for GLIHA years ago, get over it. MACHA obviously won the battle against GLIHA, its time to move on and do whats best for the league. To make the MACHA stronger and get more teams from the gold division into regionals the league should offer invites to all three of these teams within the next week! Can you imagine how competive the division would be if it added these 3 teams.

-Drop NIU, EIU, and Kansas from Gold, these teams did not really compete in gold last season and don't deserve to be there. NIU and EIU haven't competed in Gold the past couple of seasons and have lost to silver teams. They don't deserve to be there plain and simple.

-For Silver get rid of the North and South divisions immediately. I understand the travel concern and the league tried it for a season and it didn't work. Some teams played more games than others, some games were worth more points than others- it was ridiculous. And the playoff layout was terrible, it left out teams, like McKendree, out of the playoffs because of a layout that honestly was not fair. On top of that, if those 10 teams were next years Silver division competition would be very tight and there would be great matchups every week after week. I don't see many lopsided games like in the past.

-Adding a Divison 3 conference to the league is a nice idea, but I don't see it happening unless there is something going on that I don't know about it. Instead there is enough teams now to generate enough money for a third division. Once again this division is fairly even if you look at the teams I listed up there and there would be plenty of good matchups every week. If there were 3 competitive divisions then the league could start rewarding top teams and demoting bottom teams each year like it used to be. The top Bronze division team could move up to Silver the following year, bottom Silver division team move down to Bronze, and so on up the ladder.

I would appreciate some real feedback on this and other ideas people have. I would like to hear what people like Kich, WSR, jpower, Coach Lammond, Coach Thatcher, and other knowledgable people of the league think of this idea. I would think everyone can agree the goal of the league is to make things as competitive and fun for every team as possible.

I really like this idea if we can get those three teams to join the Gold tier. If we could not get any of them to join, what would you say the divisions should be?

It all depends on what teams have coming and going. KU had a better second half, playing teams much closer than in the first semester. NIU has a big roster, getting those players acquainted with better hockey through a season will make for a better year next year. EIU's program seems to be on the right track player wise, although im not sure what the ACHA Violations were about. However, EIU would be the one team I'd move down, as they seemed to struggle most with Silver opponents.

I would like to see a Silver and D3 division. I think all "JV" teams should be D3 so they also have a shot at a national title, and those who may have felt they should have made Gold still have a reason to play. Schools with 1 teams like a Purdue, Bradley, Northwestern, Western, McK should still be Silver and with the "JV" teams out of Silver you may have 1 solid conference and not 2 divisions at Silver.

Both RMU teams as well as Loyola seemed to have resurgent seasons. Depending on what they have coming in should determine where they put themselves next season.

My Division Layout:

Gold (6 of 10 teams Ranked in 09-10):

SIUE
Mo State
Iowa
ISU
Mizzou
SLU
Kansas
Northern
U Illinois
Lindenwood

It'd be hard to see RMU-Maroon come to MACHA. I'd like to see them here, but I don't think with their current administration, they could swallow their pride and enter a better, well structured conference.

Silver:
Eastern
Loyola
Northwestern
Purdue
Marquette
McKendree
Bradley
Western
RMU-S
RMU-P


D3:
SIUE D3
Mo State D3
Iowa D3
Mizzou D3
ISU D3
Wheaton
Augustana


2, 10 team divisions and a 7 team D3 Division.

Can't a team play in two leagues? I guess they would have to pick which end of the season tournament they would attend but... they would have one hell of a schedule.

The issue I have with the original posters set-up is that SIUE Silver swept Northwestern, Mizzou, Western, and Weaton last year. Bradley also swept those teams (with the exception of Northwestern), and swept them all handily. With the Bronze division, I would think it would be a two-teir division with Bradley, and RMU-White at the top, Marquette, Iowa, and SIUE trying to break into the top three, and the rest battling it out at the end. No disrespect to those schools, but Bradley outscored Wheaton 19-4, Mizzou 12-2, and Western 20-2. RMU-White out scored Iowa 22-2, Western 30-1, and ISU 13-6. SIUE out scored Wheaton 14-4, Mizzou 15-2 (1 game), and Western 13-4. It looks like RMU-White would DOMINATE that division, as the only team they lost to on that list was ISU. Basically what I'm getting at is you would run into a lot of what we already see, where teams have one weekend that they split a series with one team, then the next the rout a team 15-3 and 12-2. I think we all agree that 1) that isn't good for league competition, and 2) that isn't much fun.

That's why I like Kich's idea the best so far. Competitive divisions across the board. The only down side is it would be a lot of travel for SIUE. McK, Peoria, and Springfield are all within 2-3 hours of SIUE. However, with the proposed D3 set-up, ISU would appear to be the closest school, and the rest are quite a ways away. With that said, I still think it would be the best competition wise. But I have no idea how good Augastana is, or Iowa or ISU, but looking at last years results, it appears that all teams would be mostly competitive with each other. It would also give those teams a legit shot at regionals, and a national title. Like others have said, the way it is now, all Silver teams play for is a MACHA tournament title with no hopes of anything better. This way, it gives them that much more to play for. And in some cases, it lets them 'step out of the shadow' of their Gold teams.

The issue I have with the original posters set-up is that SIUE Silver swept Northwestern, Mizzou, Western, and Weaton last year. Bradley also swept those teams (with the exception of Northwestern), and swept them all handily. With the Bronze division, I would think it would be a two-teir division with Bradley, and RMU-White at the top, Marquette, Iowa, and SIUE trying to break into the top three, and the rest battling it out at the end. No disrespect to those schools, but Bradley outscored Wheaton 19-4, Mizzou 12-2, and Western 20-2. RMU-White out scored Iowa 22-2, Western 30-1, and ISU 13-6. SIUE out scored Wheaton 14-4, Mizzou 15-2 (1 game), and Western 13-4. It looks like RMU-White would DOMINATE that division, as the only team they lost to on that list was ISU. Basically what I'm getting at is you would run into a lot of what we already see, where teams have one weekend that they split a series with one team, then the next the rout a team 15-3 and 12-2. I think we all agree that 1) that isn't good for league competition, and 2) that isn't much fun.

That's why I like Kich's idea the best so far. Competitive divisions across the board. The only down side is it would be a lot of travel for SIUE. McK, Peoria, and Springfield are all within 2-3 hours of SIUE. However, with the proposed D3 set-up, ISU would appear to be the closest school, and the rest are quite a ways away. With that said, I still think it would be the best competition wise. But I have no idea how good Augastana is, or Iowa or ISU, but looking at last years results, it appears that all teams would be mostly competitive with each other. It would also give those teams a legit shot at regionals, and a national title. Like others have said, the way it is now, all Silver teams play for is a MACHA tournament title with no hopes of anything better. This way, it gives them that much more to play for. And in some cases, it lets them 'step out of the shadow' of their Gold teams.

I would put RMU-white in silver they had a great year. RMU-black in bronze. Add Augustana in Bronze.

Kich,

I like some of you thoughts. But there are some things to remember. As of 2 years ago RMU Maroon (and White), Illinois and Lindenwood did not want to be in our league. I believe what I heard from someone with Illinois was pretty logical. Why join that league when we can not be in it, still play as many teams in it that we want and then play other strong teams. They don't care that much about a league tournament or at least then they didn't. They may have changed their mind. As far as the central region goes this league is no closer to national tournament chances as they were 2, 3, 4 years ago. It's a tough call but these three teams all have a chance at getting to nationals without our league. Now if none of them make it out of regionals and one of our teams does then that changes the picture.

As far as teams playing in 2 divisions in the same league...absolutely not. I don't even think we should allow teams that are in our league to play in the Tom Show out of Chicago. But teams do it and we say nothing. That's fine. We all have different opinions on that one I am sure.

I do like the division breakdown that is up there. I agree that Eastern should drop. You could give them one more chance, it's a toss up. MSU JV should go to D3. They have the best chance of making it to regionals. If I were down there I would make the move even if no others in the league did. It just seems like a good progression. What I don't know is how many seniors does that team have. If they have quite a few then that could be different. If I remember correctly it has been the same cast of players that has made them strong the past few years. If they don't get replaced then that changes things.

There are too many variables. It is also tough to keep changing things. The Gold was smart in leaving the same teams for two years. If the Silver changes this will be four different alignments in four years. I am sure these discussions have already been happening with some board members and some "ideal" layouts will be presented at the league meeting.

Augustana...do they even have enough players for a team next year? I know they have a high profile, high dollar coach, that's for sure. I wonder how much they are paying him. And yes, they are paying him.

These division lineups for the most part look good. The first thing to point out is that RMU-Maroons schedule is already done for next year. I am not sure that Lindenwood would want to give up that much of their schedule to be in a league. Illinois, I am not sure about. As far as past relationships with different teams go; whatever problems occurred, let it go, life is too short.

RMU-White is definitely a silver team. They have a solid squad and had a great season. Missouri-Black, I am not sure they will have a team next year.

If the three Gold teams I mentioned did not want to join the MACHA, this would leave 6 teams in that division. That is ok because these teams need some room on their schedule to play ranked teams to try and make it to the nationals.
The silver division would be excellent. I can realistically see 12 teams that can compete for the championship of the silver. The ten mentioned teams, plus RMU-White, Marquette and I wouldn't leave Bradley out of the mix. This division would be as even as it could get.

The North and South conferences did not work. I don't think that the travel is really the issue. Most of us play the teams in the other conference anyway. Kansas is the farthest team that would be in the silver. We have to make sure everyone plays the same number of games, and the same level of competition.

The Bronze division would have approximately 6 teams in it, depending on who actually has a team or not. This would give these teams a competitive and fun season, with the chance to play some silver teams on the side and see if they should move up the following year.

This is all good conversation and all ideas should be brought to the meeting and shared. This is the reason that I wanted to join this league two seasons ago. RMU Peoria and Springfield want to help this league be leader in ACHA D2 hockey. I know it has the potential.

P.S. Please sign your name. These are all good posts. Let us know who you are.

I think as of right now Kich has the best and most realistic layout. The only problem with it is I don't know how you can think NIU and Kansas should be in Gold next season. EIU finished with a better conference record than both of them and they both got blown out in a lot of their conference games. If you look at their second semester results I didn't see much improvement from either team and they both have losses to silver teams- the Silver divison is where they belong next season until they prove otherwise. Jim Sanchez is right about RMU-Maroon, but RMU-White and RMU-Black I think could still be added. What if these were the divisions:

Gold:

1) SIUE
2) Mo State
3) Iowa
4) ISU- Redbirds
5) Mizzou
6) SLU
7) Illinois D2
8) Lindenwood

-This would be the perfect realistic gold division and it would give these teams the opportunity to schedule with other teams outside the MACHA.

Silver:

1) Eastern
2) NIU
3) Kansas
4) Loyola
5) Northwestern
6) Purdue
7) Marquette
8) McKendree
9) Bradley
10) RMU-S
11) RMU-P
12) RMU-White

It would be 22 league games which is a lot, but it would be a great conference and I don't think most of the Silver teams schedule that many teams outside of MACHA as it is.


Division 3:

1) SIUE D3
2) Mo State D3
3) Iowa D3
4) Mizzou D3
5) ISU D3
6) Wheaton (move to D3)
7) Augustana
8) RMU- Black D3
9) Western (move to D3, they can't compete in D2- this would be best for the club overall)

I think this division is a great idea and these teams would be a great starting point for MACHA.

i like the D3 division. geographically it is not that bad besides mo state but u only go there every other year.

Would JV teams like Mizzou, SIUE, and Mo State have been allowed to play in the league this year if they were Division 3? What is stopping them from going down? There is no valid arguement for these teams to be playing in Division 2 considering they essentially have no shot at a regional bid. With that being said, I really do not see regionals happening for any team in the silver division based on strength of schedule.

I believe that if a silver team wants to make the smart decision and drop down to Division 3 they should be allowed to remain in the league even if other teams in the silver division do not. There is no reason to create another teir or restructure the MACHA. These teams can still play eachother if they are in different divisions. Just make sure when the league tournament is scheduled it doesn't conflict with D3 nationals. Trust me, there are plenty of teams in the silver division who have a shot at a Division 3 national title.

Also, think about all of the exposure the league would have with all the silver teams that would be receiving rankings, and also picture the light at the end of the tunnel for these silver teams. Right now it is a MACHA trophy, it very easily could be the first MACHA team to win a national championship.

Bottom line: RMU Maroon (I assume you mean RM Chicago Maroon), Illinois and Lindenwood will not join MACHA is that they would be required to play other substandard MACHA teams. If the league would change to have just teams that have been ranked before, that might be a plus, but unfortunately not enough. These teams have improved so much by playing higher competition that it would be almost foolish to think they would want to play in the MACHA again.

As to some teams going to D3, the reason for some teams (like MSU) to have a second D2 team is to be able to bring players between the teams without penalty. In D3 you can only move players two or three times a season.

Also, unless you completely seperate the teams (management, funding and coaching) it would nt make that much sense to have the teams in different divisions.

I agree with alingment of teams based on skill level as mentioned above into Gold, Sliver, and Bronse Divisions, but to "drop" a team to the D3 level so they have a chance at a National Title doesn't seem to do a team justice. IMHO

As of next season you can move players up and down from D2 to D3. There will be no max but rosters must be frozen by Jan. 31st. (which is how it is now if you have 2 teams in D2)

As far as my putting EIU in the Silver tier, they have made playoffs once since they joined the Gold division in 07-08. NIU is improving and growing. Last made it in 06-07, I think they're just a couple players short of a playoff contender. KU was ranked for a bit the past 2 years, and made playoffs last season. This season was a down year for sure, but its only 1.

There is no way you can tell me EIU, NIU and Kansas are better than the top silver teams. The games that these teams played against silver teams this past season proves that they are not. These three teams should get moved down to silver and if they win silver or dominate then you can move them back up to gold. I don't see why these 3 teams would want to stay in gold anyways when they can do what RMC Springfield did and move down to silver and be a contender to win the division, have a lot more competitive games, and be a more respected team.

I know some of the 3 teams mentioned would not want to move down because that would bring their competition level down. Yes NIU, EIU, and Kansas got beat up by most of the Gold teams, but if they moved to Silver, then they would be beating up all the bottom Silver teams.

I agree with most of this talk. However in my opinion there is no reason to have a d2 silver division. The teams in that division are never going to be nationally ranked so all they have to play for is Silver Division Championship.

I think we should do the following

Gold Division 2
Silver Division 3

If a team really wants to play Division 2 then they play in the gold division. Yes we will have a bigger gold Divison and the question would be how do teams play other teams to help the national ranking. I suggest we go to a points system. A team needs to play a total 26 points. You would have the option of playing 2pt games or 4pt games. Yes we would have some teams who play weaker teams, but then they would exit the playoffs quickly.

here is how I see teams falling

Gold

SIUE
Mo State
Iowa
ISU
Mizzou
SLU
Kansas
Northern
Eastern
Loyola
Purdue
RMU-P

Silver Divison 3
Northwestern
Marquette
McKendree
Bradley
Western
RMU-S
SIUE JV
Mo State JV
Iowa Jv
Mizzou Jv
ISU jv
Wheaton
Augustana

Silver Divison 3
Northwestern - won't go D3
Marquette - ditto
McKendree - ditto
Bradley - ditto
Western
RMU-S
SIUE JV
Mo State JV
Iowa Jv
Mizzou Jv
ISU jv
Wheaton
Augustana

There are four teams there that most likely won't go to D3. Unlike gold and silver in the MACHA you can't just jump back and forth from D2 to D3 in the ACHA. I don't see RMU P or S getting to any nationals anytime sooner than Marquette or Northwestern. I think the argument of using whether you will compete for nationals or not isn't very strong with the consistent spankings our teams get at regionals, either round 1 or round 2.

Everyone here has to remember, you can't jump up and down from D2 to D3.

Why move Purdue or RMU-P to gold if neither of them can win the silver division?

No way Lindenwood will join MACHA. They are making application to join NCAA and believe that their hockey teams will follow as they are in negoiations with St. Charles Family Arena to tak it over.

Logical post.

curious why do you feel
Northwestern
Mckendree
Bradley
Marquette wont go to D3

Because they don't want to. I know for a fact that one of those teams will not go to D3.

which team and why

give facts

IS there a problem with it or just ego?

Northwestern would most likely go D3.
They are also losing like half their team so who knows what will happen next year.

Just know that there is at least one team that won't do it. That's all you need to know.

But I can say going by the Northwestern example "losing key players" may not be a good reason to come up with. Once again you have to remember that moving divisions in the ACHA is a much much bigger deal than moving up or down in the MACHA. I think there needs to be a real good reason for a current D2 school with just one team to make the move to D3. I mean, there are horrible teams in NCAA D1 that are bad in most sports and MIGHT compete better at D2 but you have to look at the whole picture. For instance with D1 football, if you are the worst D1 football in the land you won't go to D1-AA and compete for titals. It is just a deep argument.

I would think that the best option is present it to members to see if they are interested in going D3. A move in this league to D3 can be a 2 year process.

Does anyone know if teams moving down to D3 are even eligible for the national tournament their first year or do they have a probation year?

Once again......if you want to lose teams then go ahead and force teams that want to play D2 into the Gold Division. Lindenwood, Illinois, and RMC-M left because they would be forced to play a MACHA schedule of sub-standard teams, in my opinion. If you look at the afore mentioned teams' schedules, you will see a much higher caliber of teams being played. Again, no offense to MACHA, but only the best teams (translated to winning teams) should be in Gold.

This season saw the 4 best teams within a few points of each other. Those 4 teams have either made regionals or been ranked before.

just curious on the last post. Our we here to have a league or worry about national rankings. I thought the goal was to do both. I like the idea of having a pts system. this way you can play as many or as little of league games. As for teams that are on the bubble. They need to leave their ego at the door. Does it make you a better person if you say " I PLAYED D2 CLUB HOCKEY?" OR " I PLAYED D3 CLUB HOCKEY?" I would hope it would mean more to say I played for a national championship.

As for the person talking about d1 football vs d 1 aa football, that is a bigger issue. It is called scholarship dollars.

Just pointing out that teams that have left MACHA are teams that want to get to the next level. Not only do they want to play "club hockey" as you put it, but they want to have the opportunity to win a National Championship. Right now, only one team that has been mentioned in this thread has made it to the Nattys...that being Lindenwood, a former MACHA team.

The reason most central teams (Grand Valley, Ferris, RMC-M, Davenport, Mich. State, etc.) won't schedule some MACHA teams is because they would rather face compatable competition than have to play a team and smoke them 10-0.

Again, this is not a knock on MACHA but just a way to point out that in order to attract teams to the league, the teams in the league must become more competitive before other teams will take a look. It's going to happen, but not with all league teams just now.

I don't know about travel problems and changing the divisions/leagues every year, but what about a relegation system where the top 2 silver teams move up gold the next year and the bottom 2 gold move to silver.

I know that there are so many fluctuations from year to year skill because of the whole 4 year college system, but that could give some of the better silver teams something to play for other than a trip to Peoria/East Alton or whatever.

And that ties back into the point about having a D3 league. If that were the case, then MSU JV would have joined gold 2 years ago. How much sense does that make?

And that goes back to the point that it is good for the JV teams to join D3. You can go back and forth on this one all day long. Some teams will go, some won't. That's ok. This league is big enough for that and can accomodate both trains of thought. That's the nice part about the current size of this league.

If i'm reading this correctly, Iowa's second team cannot participate in men's division three as we are too large of a school. We could petition this week to join, but only for one year.

D. Men's Division 3 Membership Restrictions
1. Inclusion in Mens Division 3 shall be limited to those teams:
a. from colleges and universities with total undergraduate student bodies of
less than 10,000, unless said college or university fields more than one (1)
ACHA team, in which case the school may divide its undergraduate student
body total by the number of ACHA teams it fields, and if the resulting
number is less than 10,000, then the school may place one (1) team in
Mens Division 3.
b. Which have never been affiliated with the ACHA or have been members of
Mens Division 2 for no more than three (3) seasons and have not
participated in, nor have been invited to participate in, the Mens Division 2
National Tournament within the previous three (3) seasons.
c. Teams from colleges and universities with undergraduate student bodies
greater than 10,000 or which have been members of Mens Division 2 for
more than three (3) seasons, but have not participated in, nor been invited
to participate in, the Mens Division 2 National Tournament within the
previous three (3) seasons, may petition the ACHA for a waiver and, if
granted, can compete in Mens Division 3 for one (1) season under that
waiver.
d. Mens Division 1 teams and former Mens Division 1 teams are ineligible for
membership in Mens Division 3 without first competing in Mens Division 2
for at least three (3) seasons.
e. The waiver referred to in Rule I,D,1,c, must be filed with the Office of the
Commissioner, for play in the following season, by the conclusion of the
current season. The current season is deemed to have concluded as of the
completion of the M3 National Championship game.