YOU PEOPLE SEEM TO EITHER LOVE WAGNER OR HATE HIS GUTS. I WOULD GUESS IT'S THE LADIES THAT LOVE AND THE GUYS THAT HATE. I FEEL THAT HE IS NOT CRIMINALLY RESPONSIBLE. HE IS MORALLY RESPONSIBLE. I FEEL THAT WHEN HE DIES WE WILL FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED AND IT WILL COME FROM EITHER CHRIS WALKEN, GEORGIANNE WALKEN OR NATALIE'S DAUGHTER, NATASHA. I HAVE READ EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID HERE. SOME OF IT HAS BEEN WELL SAID AND SOME OF IT IS CLOUDED BY THE INABILITY OF THE LADIES TO SEE BEYOND JONATHAN HART. HE IS NOT THE KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR THAT YOU LOVELY LADIES HAVE MADE HIM OUT TO BE. HE IS NOT A MURDERER NOR IS HE THE PICTURE OF INNOCENCE. I HAVE READ THAT HE FEELS GUILT. HE SHOULD. I DISAGREE WITH THE WAGNER WALKEN HAVING SEX STORY. TOO SIMPLE. THERE IS MORE TO IT THAN THAT. SOME OF YOU SEEM TO BE HERE ONLY TO DEFEND WAGNER. YOU DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS ABOUT NATALIE. GO FIND A WAGNER SITE TO TELL HIM HOW CUTE HE IS. LEAVE THIS TO PEOPLE WHO STILL WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALIE, WHY HER LIFE ENDED SO SOON. TO THOSE WHO DO CARE ABOUT NATALIE, LET'S TRY TO REMAIN OPEN-MINDED. I AM TOO YOUNG REMEMBER THE DAY SHE DIED BUT I WILL WONDER TILL MY DYING DAY. SORRY IF I OFFENDED THE ROBERT WAGNER FAN CLUB.

VERY well said, sir! Kudos! You hit the nail on the head...I disagree about the RJ-Walken sex thing, as it really is the only reason MANY people can find to explain why Natalie would get into a dinghy in the middle of the night given her terror of water. But I agree one hundred percent about the RJ fan club; the "ladies" are positively blinded by their obsessive love for him.

I'LL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHAT SHE SAW IN HIM. HE IS A CREAM PUFF ACTOR. HE TOOK MONEY FROM HER BEFORE THEY GOT MARRIED. THAT WOULD HAVE MADE A BELL GO OFF IN MY HEAD. IF NOT FOR HER HE WOULD HAVE BEEN NOTHING. THAT SECOND MARRIAGE WAS MONEY IN THE BANK FOR HIM. HE IS A PROFESSIONAL STAR. SOME DAY THEIR CHILDREN WILL SEE HIM FOR WHAT HE REALLY IS. I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT HE USED TO GET UPSET WHEN SHE GOT TOO MUCH ATTENTION FROM THE PRESS. HE'D GRAB HER AND PULL HER AWAY. TODAY, I SEE HIM WITH THAT WINNER THAT HE MARRIED AND HE SMILES THAT CHARM BOY SMILE. NATALIE IS NOT THERE TO TAKE THE ATTENTION FROM HIM ANYMORE. HE COULDN'T HANDLE HER. SHE WAS BIGGER, BRIGHTER, AND MORE TALENTED. SHE IS A LEGEND, AN ICON. HE IS A MAN THAT MARRIED A LEGEND, AN ICON. WHAT HAS HE EVER DONE THAT WILL BE REMEMBERED ASIDE FROM MARRYING NATALIE WOOD. HE GOT LUCKY WHEN HE MET HER. HE HIT THE JACKPOT. IN MORE WAYS THAT ONE. MAYBE THAT'S WHY IT TOOK HIM SO LONG TO CALL FOR HELP. THERE WAS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT. I READ SOME INCREDIBLE EXCUSES MADE BY HIS FANS. HE WAS FALL DOWN DRUNK AND ONLY GAVE A DAMN ABOUT HIMSELF AND WHAT THE PRESS WOULD THINK. I WONDER WHAT HE TOLD HIS CHILDREN. I WONDER HOW HE LOOKS THEM IN THE EYE. HE WAITED OVER TWO HOURS TO CALL FOR HELP FOR HIS WIFE WHO WAS DRUNK AND COULD NOT SWIM. SOME OF YOU FEEL THAT IN THOSE TWO HOURS THE THREE MEN THOUGHT OF WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO TELL THE AUTHORITIES. I DON'T FEEL WALKEN IS RESPONSIBLE AT ALL. DENNIS DAVERN WAS WAGNER'S PUPPY DOG. WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE THE ONLY PERSON ON THAT BOAT WHO SHOULD HAVE LOOKED OUT FOR NATALIE FAILED HER. I DON'T KNOW HOW HE SLEEPS AT NIGHT.

Chap

Firstly - could you please stop typing your messages in caps? It's the internet equivalent of shouting and is considered bad manners. Also, it's much harder to read that way!

Secondly - I find your opinion of RJ deeply offensive and wide of the mark. Robert Wagner was and is a talented actor in his own right. He was lucky to marry Natalie, but I also think she was lucky to marry him. They clearly loved each other - evidenced by the fact that they eventually remarried after a period apart and remained happily married until Natalie's tragic death. She also wanted him to adopt her daughter (which he did) and, after her death, her will instructed that he should raise their daughters. Evidence from Natalie herself that she loved and trusted this man.

He wasn't a saint, but then again neither was she. They were human beings with faults and foibles just like the rest of us.

Natalie did indeed lend him money to help get him back on his feet (shortly before their second marriage, I believe). A testiment to the fact that she loved him. He more than paid her back with his love and shrewed business investments, ensuring financial stability for both of them and their children. Together with Natalie he formed a production company which had a hand in many of the top TV shows of the 70s/80s.

As for him being 'responsible' for Natalie's death - my opinions on that are elsewhere on this message board. Suffice it to say, I do not hold him responsible for her death - whether criminally or morally!

Incidentally, Dennis Davern has never been RJ's 'puppy dog'. He regularly tries to make money out of his story, changing it as often as the rest of us change our underwear. He has never defended RJ - quite the opposite, in fact!

BTW - You, 'Interested Party' and 'Halrego' wouldn't be the same person by any chance, would you? Your writing styles seem suspiciously similar, as does your shared fondness for using CAPS.

Joanne

I WILL CONTINUE TO USE CAPITALS BECAUSE I ALWAYS USE THEM. NO ONE ELSE HAS BEEN OFFENDED BY MY USE OF CAPS. DENNIS DAVERN WAS WAGNER'S PUPPY DOG WHEN HE WORKED FOR HIM. I'M AWARE OF WHAT WENT ON AFTERWARD. THE PRODUCTION COMPANY THAT NATALIE AND WAGNER OWNED JOINTLY WAS CALLED RONA 2. SHE KEPT IT GOING THROUGH THE YEARS THEY WERE DIVORCED. I SUSPECT HER HEAD FOR BUSINESS WAS AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN HIS CONSIDERING THAT WHEN THEY GOT BACK TOGETHER HE WAS WORTH NOTHING AND SHE WAS WORTH MILLIONS. WITHOUT HIM SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE. AND SHE WOULD BE ALIVE. I AM NOT WHOEVER YOU ARE SAYING I AM. I CAN ASSURE YOU.

wow, i thought the weekend would be quite..... in the years that they were apart they remained friends. she remained close to his family. natalie and rj's mother spent a lot of time together. i don't think some of you understand the depth of their relationship. yes, she gave him money to bail himself out of a financial problem that had to do with a movie deal that went bad and a contractual problem. she was very generous. she helped many people. she loved him, why would she stand by and do nothing. this is what people do when they love each other. rj was and is a man with a lot of pride. i'm sure he hesitated before accepting her financial help. you make it sound like he sat home and did nothing while they lived off her money. he supported the family and natalie's money was set aside for retirement, investment etc. he wanted her to feel that she did not have to work, that he would take care of her and the children. he is not the idiot that you make him out to be. i see beyond jonathan hart. some of you simply don't understand the special relationship that they had. "more than love".....why do some of you insist on bashing this man...jealous?...

and i do give a "rat's ass" about natalie. i am here for her. this site has degenerated into a shouting match. why can't this have been an accident? that's the only explanation that makes sense. the rest of it does not make sense. and don't hold your breath for natasha to speak out about her mom's death when rj is gone. that won't happen. she has too much respect and love for both of her parents. it's been 25 years. people talk about this as if it's a mystery. where is the mystery? yes, there are things that we don't know. why should we know? why can't we accept what we know about her death and remember her life.

RJ and Natalie had a production company during their first marriage called RONA, which Natalie presumably kept after the divorce. When they remarried they set up another company together (i.e. both of them, not Natalie) called RONA II. This is the company I was referring to, which had a hand in creating/producing some of the most famous TV shows of the 70s/80s.

RJ has two production companies now (RJ Productions and KANACO Productions) and is renowned in that field. I think that he's more than proved his shrewdness as a businessman.

Both he and Natalie were sharp when it came to business - no doubt that was one thing they enjoyed sharing in. It also makes a mockery of the myth that RJ was/is stupid! He's anything but!

As for Davern, I'll say it again - he wasn't/isn't RJ's 'puppydog'! He's an idiot who has spent the last 25 years exploiting his connection to Natalie and RJ!

Joanne

kanaco....KAtie-NAtasha-COurtney.. i love that....natalie did keep rona going. she was one of the producers of love with the proper stranger for which she used the rona acronym... she didn't even change the name. she kept it rona which was RObert-NAtalie.

GABBOTT, YOU ARE ANOTHER WAGNER DEVOTEE HIDING BEHIND NATALIE. YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR PRETTY LITTLE HEAD EXAMINED. YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE. NOW, GO WATCH HART TO HART AND LEAVE THIS SITE TO THOSE OF US WHO LOVE NATALIE OR JUST READ AND LEARN. YOUR POSTS TURN MY STOMACH. HE'S AN ASSHOLE, A LIAR, AND A WIMP. FACE IT. YOUR HERO IS NOTHING BUT A SHALLOW CHARM BOY.

JOANNE, OH YEAH. HE A REGULAR SPIELBERG. PLEASE!! THE MAN (AND I USE THE TERM LOOSELY) CAN'T ACT HIS WAY OUT OF A PAPER BAG AND WHAT HAS HE DONE AS A PRODUCER THAT IS SO MAGNIFICENT. AND DON'T COME AROUND WITH THE CHARLIE'S ANGELS CRAP. THAT FELL IN HIS LAP. HE'S A DUMB ASS. HE GOT LUCKY. WITHOUT NATALIE, HE WOULD HAVE STILL BEEN DOING GUEST SHOTS ON TV SHOWS LIKE HE WAS WHEN THEY GOT BACK TOGETHER.

if anyone needs help, it's you. i'm not going to dignify anything that you with response.

Chap...you're not only brilliant and astute, you tell it like it is...again, kudos. Just know you are right on the money and be prepared to defend your position in no uncertain terms...the female fans here are rabid dogs (cats, actually) when it comes to defending their little hero.

'Interested Party'

I see nothing 'astute' in what Chap is saying. He's just lashing out, shouting about how RJ is 'such a thing', 'such a thing and 'such a thing' - yet with no reasoning behind what he's saying. It's just angry ranting!

Chap

RJ is known and respected as both an actor and producer. As for 'Charlie's Angels' - that did not just 'fall into his lap'. If only it were that easy to create a hit show! It takes a lot of hard working people. But it's also a huge gamble for the producers. RJ has made some pretty astute descisons over the years. Not least insisting on the casting of Stefanie Powers in 'Hart to Hart'. No-one else wanted her in the show (she was RJ's first and only choice for the role of Jennifer Hart) - it was RJ who dug his heels in and went up against the TV bigwigs. Thankfully, he won the day and the show went on to be a mega hit!

RJ has always had a relaxed and down-to-earth attitude to acting. He knows he's not a 'heavyweight' and has never tried, or claimed, to be. He enjoys what he does and I enjoy watching him on screen (as do many others).

Whatever you may think of him, Natalie loved him. And as for your assertion that he'd have been nothing without Natalie, no-one knows what path his life and career would have taken without Natalie in it. I suspect he would still have had a successful career. After all, he did some excellent work during the period they were divorced ('The War Lover', 'The Pink Panther', 'Harper', 'The Longest Day') without any help from her!

Joanne

ALL SUPPORTING ROLES. NOTHING THAT HE WILL BE REMEMBERED FOR. HE WILL BE REMEMBERED AS BEING NATALIE WOOD'S HUSBAND. AND HE DID NOTHING AS FAR CHARLIE'S ANGELS. AARON SPELLING WAS THE MAN BEHIND CHARLIE'S ANGELS. IT FELL INTO THEIR LAP BECAUSE OF THE CONTRACT THEY SIGNED WHEN THEY DID THE AFFAIR. I KNOW A LITTLE MORE THAN YOU THINK I DO. HE IS A TV ACTOR. A BLAND, BORING, CHARM BOY TV ACTOR WHO NEVER REACHED A POINT IN HIS CAREER WHERE HE DID ANYTHING MEMORABLE EXCEPT FOR HOOKING ONTO NATALIE WOOD. HE NEVER WOULD HAVE REACHED THE POINT OF HART TO HART IF HE DIDN'T HOOK ONTO NATALIE. HE WOULD STILL BE DOING GUEST SHOTS ON TV SHOWS. AND HART TO HART IS HARDLY A MASTERPIECE IN TELEVISION. LIGHTWEIGHT CRAP. HE GETS TO PUT ON HIS CHARM BOY ACT. LIGHTWEIGHT IS ALL HE IS CAPABLE OF.

Chap

'Hart to Hart' was a huge hit show, which 20+ years later is still remembered with affection by a lot of people (including myself). Yes, it was 'lightweight', but it never professed to be anything else! It was fun! It was escapism! And it worked because of RJ and Stefanie Powers - their on-screen chemistry and effortless acting (which, unfortunately was vastly underrated) made that show a classic!

As I said in my previous post, RJ never professed to be a 'heavyweight' dramatic actor. What he excelled at was comedy! However, he has turned in some good dramatic performances - 'A Kiss Before Dying', for example. Let's face it, he must be doing something right if he's still in the business after 56 years!

At the end of the day, Natalie loved him and he loved her. They were happy together, especially during the second marriage when they had both 'grown up' and confronted their demons.

Another 'factor' in my opinion of RJ is his continuing friendship with Stefanie Powers (46 years and counting). She is a smart and savvy lady...and she knows him probably better than anyone except his family. If she thought for one moment that he was the nasty piece of work that you think he is, she would not want anything to do with him! As it is, she has remained close to him and clearly trusts him.

Joanne

OH WELL THEN, WE TAKE IT ALL BACK. STEPHANIE POWERS LIKES ROBERT WAGNER. WOW. WE ALL FEEL DIFFERENTLY NOW, DON'T WE. TALK ABOUT TRIVIAL.

Chap

The point I was making is this - Stefanie Powers has known Robert Wagner for 46 years - all her adult life (they met when she was 16)! To me, this counts for something. She is in a far better position to judge what he's really like than either you or I. And if she thinks he's a good and decent man (which clearly she does) then that has to tell us something i.e. that he is a good and decent man!

Incidentally, she's always backed him to the hilt over Natalie's death (I know of at least one occasion when she got into a heated discussion with someone over it). As someone who was also a friend of Natalie, Stefanie would not go to those lengths unless she really believed in RJ - and, I'll say it again - Stefanie is a smart, savvy woman, not some weak, deluded RJ groupie!

Joanne

YES, HE DID SOMETHING RIGHT. HE MARRIED NATALIE WOOD. WHEN THEY GOT BACK HIS CAREER WAS ON THE VERGE OF BECOMING EXTINCT. HE MARRIED HER AND IT ALL CHANGED. HE BECAME NATALIE WOOD'S HUSBAND. HE RODE THE CREST OF THE WAVE. WHEN THEY GOT BACK TOGETHER HE WAS GUESTING ON THE STREETS OF SAN FRANSISCO AND NOTHING WAS SAID ABOUT HIM. HE GETS BACK WITH HER AND HIS CUTE LITTLE FACE WAS ON THE COVER OF ALL THE MAGAZINES. HE WAS BACK IN THE PUBLIC EYE. HELLO.

RJ did not reunite with Natalie to 'further his career'! He reunited with Natalie (and subsequently remarried her) because he loved her - and she loved him! Come on, think about it! They were happy together for 9 years!

Natalie gave birth to his child and encouraged him to adopt hers from a previous marriage! Are you honestly saying that the kids were all part of RJ's devious plot? Honestly, that just beggers belief! He adores those girls and has raised them to become happy, well-adjusted young women (how rare that is with 'Hollywood Kids')! That, to me, speaks volumes about the kind of person he was/is!

Joanne

GUILT IS WHAT PROMPTED HIM TO BE FATHER OF THE YEAR. THEIR MOTHER DIED BECAUSE HE ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN. IF THE JERK CALLED FOR HELP SOONER THOSE GIRLS WOULD HAVE A MOTHER, NOT A MEMORY. THE NANNY WAS MOST LIKELY THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND THE UPBRINGING OF THOSE KIDS ALONG ALL THE LOVE THAT THEIR MOTHER LEFT THEM.

Nope - RJ was the driving force. He was the one who devoted himself to raising them. He made a point of spending time with his kids, making sure that he was there for them when they needed him (and even when they didn't). There was no 'motive' behind this - just a loving father wanting to do the best for his kids.

Yes, he did have help from his housekeeper, who was (and is) considered very much part of the family. But at the end of the day, it was RJ who ensured that those girls were part of a happy, secure family.

Joanne

"NOPE", BECAUSE YOU SAID SO. WELL, IF HE WERE THE UNSELFISH SOUL THAT YOU PROFESS HIM TO BE HE WOULD HAVE WAITED A BIT LONGER. THOSE KIDS HAD NO CHOICE. HE PUT HIMSELF FIRST. POOR BABY COULD NOT BE ALONE. BOO-HOO.
AND I KNOW ALL ABOUT WILLIE MAE AND HER IMPORTANCE TO THE KIDS.

I agree wholeheartedly about Jill St John! That was way too soon! However, this wasn't some hard-hearted SOB trampling on the memory of his wife! This was someone who was grieving and desperately lonely, who unfortunately made a less than sensible decision. However, he cared enough about his daughters to wait for 8 years before finally marrying Jill. He didn't even start living with her until around 1988 - a good six years after they started dating!

Try reading some of the interviews the girls have done and you will see three happy, well adjusted young women who adore their father. He may not have been perfect, but he did his best - which added up to, IMO, a damn fine job!

Joanne

I'VE READ THEM. HIS KIDS SEEM TO LOVE THE SELF-SERVING JERK. HE SHOULD THANK NATALIE FOR THAT BECAUSE WHEN SHE WITH US SHE KEPT HIM ALIVE WITH HIS KIDS WHILE HE WAS WORKING ON ALL OF THE LIMP PROJECTS THAT HE DID. HE OWES HER BIGTIME. AND I SUSPECT HE KNOWS THAT DEEP DOWN INSIDE...AS SHALLOW AS HE IS.

I agree about Wagner; he is certainly not the demi-god some here fantasize and want to believe, that's for sure. And I also believe he didn't mind riding her coattails to further his career, such as it was. A pretty face excuses many sins in some eyes, but not on others. You hit the nail on the head in many ways and echo things I have often wondered about; e.g., how he faces his kids, whether they will learn the truth someday and why it took two hours to report her missing...thank God there is one other person here who does not worship at the altar of Wagner.

In a lot of ways, Robert Wagner reminds me of Kevin Federline.

Oh yeah, I can see that. Federline has also had 3 hit TV shows and is on his way to making 100+ movies. Oh wait.....

Moron.

You just cost me 20 bucks Lucy. A friend of mine tried to convince me that Robert Wagner must have a fan out there somewhere, but I told him that he was crazy, so I bet him 20 bucks, so you just cost me a bet, I hope that you're happy.

Someone who's been around as long as Wagner must have at least ONE fan out there. So I guess you really are a moron. Thanks for confirming my assumption.

Okay, I get the point, you're Robert Wagner's fan. You should be happy, you've got him all to yourself.

No, I'm not a fan. But I've read enough of the previous posts to understand that's the M.O. around here. I'm also not a James Garner fan (someone who's had a career similar to Wagner's) but if someone compared him to Federline I'd call him on that stupidity too.

I know you're trying to be sarcastic about Wagner having only one fan, but sarcasm only works when it's rooted in reality. The man has been around Hollywood for 60 years. Wagner = Kevin Federline? Please. You need a new hobby.

James Garner had a legendary career in Hollywood. Haven't you ever heard of "Support Your Local Sheriff"? You must have heard of the Rockford Files, or Maverick? Nothing that Robert Wagner has ever done can be compared to James Garner, so NO they didn't have "similar careers" as you stated. All of Wagner's shows were pure fluff, which were cancelled because of very low ratings.

I compare Wagner to Federline because both men married women who were much more successful than their husbands, and the husbands profitted handsomely from the publicity of being married to famous women. Without Natalie, Robert Wagner would have been a life-long D-lister. When Natalie and Wagner divorced, all of the publicity that Wagner had been getting as Natalie's husband, was transferred over to Warren Beatty, and Wagner was forgotten until he and Natalie got back together.

Right, Wagner's shows were "cancelled" and Garner's are what? Still on the air? No, they were cancelled too, as all shows are after they've run their course.

I'm not comparing the content of their shows, I was comparing their careers as actors who were successful in both movies and multiple TV shows over many decades.

As for Wagner only being famous because of Natalie, I've read enough about him to know that he had a successful career before her, while with her, and after she died. He's still making movies at 78! Not many "D listers" are doing that. So you can try to belittle him, if that makes you feel better, but the facts are the facts.

Wagner didn't have a "successful film career" before he married Natalie, he did appear in some movies like Prince Valiant, but they bombed. Just like Kevin Federline's rap albums bomb today. Federline has released several rap albums, but that doesn't mean that he has any talent, and it doesn't make him a star, people only know him because he was married to someone who was famous, just like Wagner.

Sorry, anyone who's still around IN ANY FIELD, but especially the cut throat world of Hollywood, after 60+ years is a success.

Why you feel the need to diminish Wagner's career says more about you than it does about Wagner.

his career is already diminished. he still works because he grabs at any crumb they offer him. his career is a joke. he has never been a major A-list player, never!

Holy smokes, get a hold of yourself. There is no need to use exclamation points. When did I say he was an A list player? I simply said he was a success for having survived 60+ years in Hollywood.

why are you here? this is a natalie wood forum. wagner's fans come here to defend him.

Why don't Wagner's fans go defend him on a Robert Wagner message board? Probably because there isn't a Robert Wagner message board.

Bravo, Chap, your observations and comments are well thought out and right to the point, I have read your input and it is high time someone showed up who could be restrained and intellient all at the same time, your presence is valuable here in this turgid sea of Wagner fans who dispute anything and everything to do with this event that might besmirch their idol's reputation. I look forward to morcommentary and enjoy your resonses because they are so cogent, keep 'em coming!