Maryanne:

I am fully aware you are not Joanne. That’s why I placed a & after your name in my earlier post. However, Joanne and Anonymous have EXACTLY the same defensive direction of this case, personality and verbal “attacking” anyone who doesn’t like Robert Wagner. In addition, vladislaus started a thread “who can you believe?” over a year ago on this site. Look it up - page 3. A post on Feb. 8, 2006 has a login name Anonymous and is signed Joanne. Hmmmmm.....


Maryanne, I do not believe Natalie Wood's death was an accident.


To Joanne:

I post what I believe to be accurate and if you want to see a video of these two crimes I don’t think you ever will. My beliefs of the circumstances of this case have nothing to do with emotions or “heartfelt” convictions. You need to get a life!

If you believe Robert Wagner had nothing to do with these deaths I don’t know why you just don’t drop this and move forward. The IMDB message board is full of people who believe Robert Wagner is Natalie Wood’s killer. Not just on this board. How many login names are you going to use to defend this creep?

BTW, you imply that I post “on so many boards.” Outside of this board (starting on May 2, 2007) I have only been on this and the IMDB boards. To my knowledge, my twin sister has never posted on a message board in her entire life. I am always alobster777 on these two boards. In the future, there are some crime message boards I may visit. I have read where some posters believe the Holden and Wood deaths are too suspicious not to be linked.

I don’t know all of Peter Rydyn’s facts. But we are both in agreement that Stefanie Powers and Rogert Wagner are connected to the deaths of Natalie Wood and William Holden.

Joanne, I suggest you e-mail Peter if you want any more proof. As far as why I am so adamantly convinced they were murdered and by who I am not going to divulge my information to a stranger on a message board. You wouldn't believe me anyway.

It doesn’t matter what you or I know or think! We are not LE or related to Natalie Wood. My suggestion to you - LET IT GO for your own emotional and mental stability! I could understand fully if Wagner got murdered and you wanted to see justice served for him. But my God Joanne you defend this nasty prevaricator as though your life hinges on it.

I know Robert Wagner is 77 years old but from the latest pics I have seen of him he honestly looks very elderly and sickly -- http://www.methodfest.com/07images/march31fin/index.htm
He may be around the corner from death himself.

If Holden and Wood could talk you know you wouldn’t believe them anyway Joanne. I think this is one of the most heinous nefarious plans I have ever heard of. It may be quite some time before I can ever watch a Holden movie again. Too painful!

I despise Stefanie Powers and Robert Wagner and the powers of darkness behind this murder. There is a place for people like them. I believe in an afterlife.

This topic is going around in circles with you Joanne and you are one broken record. You blasted Holden so bad on the IMDB board that several posters on the Holden board made comments about you. Yas-6 called you a nutcase and Suzanne said she visited the Wagner/Wood boards and for her mental health was staying away. You informed me at one time that if I would PM you that you would reveal the source that told you Holden abused Audrey Hepburn. I PM’d you but about a month later. You never responded to me citing a source. Because you know there isn’t one! Bill Holden was in love with Audrey Hepburn and there is no record ANYWHERE of abuse to her. He DIED in love with Audrey Hepburn; he wasn't in love with Stefanie Powers nor Pat Stauffer.

Schuyler, I join Maryanne and tell you I appreciated reading your posts. Your contribution was much appreciated and from my California experiences I know some of what you say is right on the money. If Joanne gets on your nerves just ignore her and all her aliases.


Vlad - Thanks for the e-mail address. I hope to discuss these deaths with you shortly.

OK, Alobster. You obviously have a Joanne fixation and you're so convinced that I am her. Perhaps that's why you're interpreting my posts as a defense of Robert Wagner. They are not. If you re-read them (without your Joanne bias), you'll see that all I'm saying is that I believe Natalie's death to be an accident. Many others do as well. I am open to changing my mind, but to do so, I need proof. I'm not going to change it based on your - or anyone's - speculation.


But since you seem to have confused me with Joanne, I'm going to respond line by line to your post (in caps):

To Joanne:

I post what I believe to be accurate and if you want to see a video of these two crimes I don’t think you ever will. I NEVER SAID I WANTED "VIDEO". I SAID I WANTED PROOF, AS IN EVIDENCE. SOMETHING OTHER THAN SPECULATION OR THEORIZING. WE CAN DO THAT ALL DAY LONG, BUT IT DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING.


My beliefs of the circumstances of this case have nothing to do with emotions or “heartfelt” convictions. You need to get a life! WITHOUT PROOF, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE - HEARTFELT CONVICTIONS. YOU EVEN WROTE IT IN A PREVIOUS POST: "I believe that Stefanie Powers and Robert Wagner should be held responsible for the murders of William Holden and Natalie Wood. This is my true honest sincere heartfelt belief as God is my witness." I GOT THE "NOT SIMPLY WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART" LINE I USED IN AN EARLIER POST FROM YOUR POST.


If you believe Robert Wagner had nothing to do with these deaths I don’t know why you just don’t drop this and move forward. The IMDB message board is full of people who believe Robert Wagner is Natalie Wood’s killer. Not just on this board. How many login names are you going to use to defend this creep? I AM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE NOR AM I INDICTING ANYONE. BUT WHAT DOES THE FACT THAT IMDB IS FULL OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT WAGNER KILLED NATALIE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? DOES IT MAKE IT TRUE? THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE ALL KINDS OF THEORIES, BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEM TRUE. TO THIS DAY THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE WE LANDED ON THE MOON. BUT DOES THE FACT THAT MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE IT MAKE IT TRUE?


BTW, you imply that I post “on so many boards.” Outside of this board (starting on May 2, 2007) I have only been on this and the IMDB boards. To my knowledge, my twin sister has never posted on a message board in her entire life. I am always alobster777 on these two boards. In the future, there are some crime message boards I may visit. I have read where some posters believe the Holden and Wood deaths are too suspicious not to be linked. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY BOARDS YOU POST ON, AND I DIDN'T IMPLY ANYTHING. AGAIN, I QUOTED FROM YOUR EARLIER POST: "Read my posts on the William Holden IMDB message board. I have been posting about this topic for months." THE FACT THAT YOU'VE BEEN POSTING ABOUT THIS TOPIC FOR MONTHS ON DIFFERENT BOARDS SOMEHOW SHOULD CONVINCE US BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT THAT WAGNER KILLED HER? PLEASE...


I don’t know all of Peter Rydyn’s facts. OF COURSE NOT, BECAUSE HE HAS NONE. IF HE DID, HE WOULD HAVE PUBLISHED THEM BY NOW.


But we are both in agreement that Stefanie Powers and Rogert Wagner are connected to the deaths of Natalie Wood and William Holden. Joanne, I suggest you e-mail Peter if you want any more proof. I'M NOT JOANNE, BUT I SUGGEST YOU EMAIL HIM FOR WHATEVER "PROOF" HE HAS. BELIEVE ME - IF HE HAD REAL, HONEST TO GOODNESS PROOF, ONE CALL TO THE POLICE WOULD RE-OPEN THE CASE. YOU SHOULD REALLY QUESTION WHY YOU ARE SO WILLING TO BELIEVE WHAT HE SAYS WHEN HE'S PROVIDED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO BACK UP HIS ACCUSATIONS. BOTTOM LINE, HE IS A MAJOR NUTJOB SEEKING PUBLICITY.


As far as why I am so adamantly convinced they were murdered and by who I am not going to divulge my information to a stranger on a message board. You wouldn't believe me anyway. I DON'T KNOW JOANNE, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE WOULD THINK. AS FOR ME, YES, I WOULD BELIEVE YOU IF YOU HAD PROOF. I'M NOT ONE FOR THEORIES, SO NO, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU THINK MAY HAVE HAPPENED. HECK, IF WE START TRAVELLING DOWN THAT ROAD - HOW ABOUT ALIENS LANDED ON THE DECK AND PUSHED HER OVERBOARD??


It doesn’t matter what you or I know or think! WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE FINALLY CATCHING ON. GOOD FOR YOU!


We are not LE or related to Natalie Wood. My suggestion to you - LET IT GO for your own emotional and mental stability! I could understand fully if Wagner got murdered and you wanted to see justice served for him. But my God Joanne you defend this nasty prevaricator as though your life hinges on it. FROM THE POSTS I'VE READ ON THIS SITE, JOANNE IS AN AVID DEFNEDER OF WAGNER. I'M NOT. I'M OPEN MINDED, BUT I NEED MORE THAT YOUR "GUT FEELINGS" TO CONVINCE ME.

I don't believe that Natalie and Bill Holden's deaths are connected...Not at all. But I do believe that there is more to Natalie's death.
Robert Wagner would not put his ass on the line for anyone. His actions the night of Natalie's death show that he cares about himself first. He did not plan to murder her to protect Stephanie and then ask Walken to help him. It's ludicrous...And to be honest, I don't think that he would have taken his kid's mother away from them for anyone. Natalie's death was not premeditated murder.
Also, if Rydyn were right, Dennis Davern would have spoken up by now...to be sure.
Rydyn made this up. His first theory was that Walken killed Natalie as a favor to RJ...RJ asked him to...then he changed it after he looked into Bill's death...Rydyn is a pysco...He harassed Richard Burton's wife to the point where she called his brother and had the brother call Rydyn to tell him to leave her alone. Burton died of a cerebral hemorrhage...Rydan claims he was murdered. He claims everyone was murdered. Because of the lack of any type of evidence no one will publish anything written by this man.

I agree with alobster777. I have explored this theory before and it makes sense, but it might curve off of what alobster's scenerio is - so alobster, tell me if i'm close or wrong.

Stephanie walks in on Holden he is on the floor bleeding to death - she leaves - he dies - Stephanie confides in RJ tells him what happened - RJ tells Natalie but that is as far as the telling goes - Natalie get's real nervous (this would explain Natalie's "almost beside herself" behavior on Thanksgiving documented by her mother, Lana, Lambert and her friends.........

Alobster am I close?

Alobster ignore maryanne and annonymous they are trouble makers who's minds are already made up this is our deal ignore them they will go away.

Vlad,

This is ridiculous..the whole thing is ridiculous...It makes no sense. Robert Wagner did not kill his wife, mother of his kids, to protect Stefanie Powers and Chris Walken did not say "ok, I'll kill her"....It's stupidity. All these people put their butts on the line for Stefanie Powers...yeah ok...But I'll disappear ...like everyone else has. You can't have a normal discussion on this site...that's why it dies down to nothing.

I agree, Maryanne. The only people posting any longer on this site are the ones with loony conspiracy theories, such as the one Vlad just posted. Jeez, talk about stretching far and wide for an explanation. If someone asked me to come up with the most wild scenario I could imagine, I don't think I could have come up with anything better, Vlad. Except for maybe the alien story I posted earlier...LOL.

But I'll play your game, Vlad. Let's assume what you wrote is true. A couple of questions need to be answered:

1) What would cause Stefanie to confide in Wagner? If she left her lover for dead (with no witnesses!), why would she admit doing so and risk being turned in?

2) If I'm following your train of thought (which, admittedly, takes a lot of work) Wagner tells Natalie what Stefanie did, and Natalie gets anxious because she now knows about a crime. Wagner senses her anxiety and doesn't a) talk to Natalie about keeping quiet or b) decide to turn Stefanie in. He instead decides to kill his wife and mother of his small children (*shakes head*) in order to what? Protect his co-star???

3) Somehow Walken and Davern get involved in this scheme and decide to go along (*still shaking head*). What loyalty do they have to Wagner to go along and keep quiet (especially Walken, who by all accounts didn't even know Natalie or RJ before "Brainstorm")?


In order for a theory to be believable, it has to be rooted in reason. Which is my main problem with conspiracy theories; they are always unreasonable.

LOL.....and instead a keeping their wits about them to ensure that no one makes any mistakes...they all get drunk....yeah ok, it makes more sense now...LOL...I believe in keeping an opened mind but this is totally idiotic.

Maryanne - Annonymous:

First of all I never said anything about a murder plot involving Powers, Walken, and RJ. If you read my post I starteed out with Holden on the floor, and ended with Natalie being nervous, now I am waiting for a response from Alobster.

Please do not put words in my mouth, if you do not wish to participate in this then please keep your comments to yourself.

Maryanne/Annonymous are you the same person?

No, we are not the same person.
If you are following what lobster suggested to be the case then you are going in the direction of a murder conspiracy because that is what all this Rydyn crap is about and that is where lobster is aiming and i will say whatever i please.

I am waiting to hear from Alobster. Conclude to what you want, say what you want.

Then just what are you suggesting, Vlad?

Here is your post: "Stephanie walks in on Holden he is on the floor bleeding to death - she leaves - he dies - Stephanie confides in RJ tells him what happened - RJ tells Natalie but that is as far as the telling goes - Natalie get's real nervous (this would explain Natalie's "almost beside herself" behavior on Thanksgiving documented by her mother, Lana, Lambert and her friends........."

Again, playing your game, if what you say is true and Stefanie left Holden bleeding and dying, that's a crime. Not premeditated murder, but negligence at the very least.

So finish your train of thought, Vlad. RJ tells Natalie, she gets nervous, and then what?? She gets nervous and falls overboard? You say you agree with Alobster and he/she has called it murder, so you couldn't possibly believe it to be an accident. But that begs the question: if Walken and Davern weren't involved in Wagner's "scheme", why would he risk killing his wife with witnesses on board?? Just too many holes...

It could have been criminally negligent homicide...but it did not happen so it's not worth discussing...

According to Rydyn, Walken was very involved in it...according to Rydyn, Walken committed the actual murder because RJ asked him to...yeah, ok.

I don't know what happends next I am waiting for alobster to reply to see if I am on the right path. Do I think it was a murder plot? hell no hun. Certain circumstances lead to certian things, if Natalie knew that Stephanie left Holden there to die it could have affected her behavior which could have affected the whole weekend. Let's face it, it was a non stop booze party and arguements, that was very unlike Natalie especially during filming to drink like she did that weekend. I mean come on what are the odds hun of RJs costars husband dying one week and then her costars wife dying the next what are the odds honey. And let me tell you something babe, if RJ did plan to kill Natalie what better than to have 2 witnesses on board, he controlled davern, and with this incident he could control the fate of Walkens career and being......think about it girlfriend.

Any way you slice it, it's ridiculous...and most people don't want witnesses when they commit any crime let alone murder...it's not a logical theory, it makes no sense. If this were true Dennis Davern would have made a deal and sold this story for millions. Rydyn is not the onnly "private investigator" to have a theory about the night Natalie died. Remember the private investigator who spent years investigating marilyn monroe's death? Mario was his name. He claims that the rope that secured the dinghy to the boat was not untied...he claims it was cut. He claims that Wagner and Davern killed Natalie. Was there any evidence that the rope was cut? Nope....but that was his "theory"....These private investigators come up with all these wild illusions. Perhaps they could find out more if they stuck to the known facts and investigated from that point...looked at that night with an opened mind instead of looking for a killer or a conspiracy. From my own experience with this, you find out more when you are not looking for it.

It's Milo Speriglio...the private investigator who claims the rope was cut.

Vlad, Why do you have to wait for Alobster to tell you his theory? Can't you think for yourself?

It's because I do not know what the theory is!!! I have never read it, I do not go on Holden and Powers boards, so I really do not know. All I know is what alobster has written. I would ask you about it but I am not sure it is the same information that alobster has.

If I may, the theory is Rydyn's theory. I don't mean this to be rude or sarcastic way but Lobster does not want to believe that William Holden died as he did. She does not want to believe that he fell in a drunken state and hit his head and bled to death....and I understand how she feels. It's hard to face the weaknesses of our heroes but we can't change the way they lived or the way they died. People like Peter Rydyn feed on that. Lobster posted Rydyn's theory on William Holden's IMDB site...There was not one response. And the people on that site adore William Holden. The difference is that most of them have faced the truth, that this talented, great actor and good person fell and hit his head while he was drunk and died...very sad but very true.

Sorry about the inconvenience but I think we need to begin a new thread (same topic though) because it is difficult to read posts that have developed into such a thin vertical line along the right margin.

This is shite there is and never will be a connection between Nat and Bill. There is more to Nat's death than we have been told. Robert Wagner being bi would not suprise me at all. As wonderful as Nat was she was also a little bit lostand had more than a few issues that she was still trying to work out. We will never know the truth and we should just accept it and move on!!!!

So he looks sickly and 'near death'......I think he looks 78 (which he is) - and pretty darn awesome and fabulous. My dad is 74 and doesn't look as good as Robert Wagner does in those pictures........whatever happened those nights when William Holden and Natalie Wood died is in the past.....everybody I've heard has a different theory.

That was too funny about that lady staying away from message boards for her own mental health!!!

HA-HA-AHAHA-HAHAHAHAH!!!!

I think we all should do likewise for ours! (LOL)

Nobody asked me, but I found this all very entertaining.

Why would aliens single out Natalie to push overhoard?

HA-AHA-A-HAHAH-AHAH-AH-AH-AHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

p.s. Who gives a shi* about William Holden? He was drunk, he fell, stiking his head, and bled to death. End of story! Now, back to Natalie's story...

Oh, and it's also funny that Vlad suddenly lost his illiteracy!

Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha!!!!

Fraud!