Vlad - Please accept my sincere apology for the delay in e-mailing to discuss these murders. I will e-mail you today.

Maryanne, I know you are not Joanne. Never did that ever come out of my mouth because I am certain you are not the poster that has frustrated so many on the Robert Wagner IMDB board and also this forum. It is exasperating to hear this fan blindly defend what she has so indelibly itched in her mind about him. Joanne is insanely driven to respond to EVERBODY that thinks Wagner is guilty of murdering Natalie or has a dark side or could happen to possess any flaws. She has also attacked posters who said he is a bisexual or homosexual (which has been rumored for years).

Joanne has logged in and posted as “Anonymous” before but she is not the only “Anonymous” on this board. If a poster neglects to type in a login name automatically this board logs them in as “Anonymous.” In addition I believe Joanne has used the login name Joanne Smith also. It looks as if there are more people defending Robert Wagner in these threads when really there is just Joanne in several instances.

Anyway, I agree with you Joanne is only interested in Natalie Wood because of Wagner. Otherwise, she probably doesn’t care one bit if Natalie’s drowning was not an accident.

However, I vehemently disagree with you that I refuse to believe Wm. Holden’s death was due to a drunken fall. You are very wrong so help me God. I would much rather believe that corruption or murder did not end this actor’s life. There is a personal reason I believe Holden and Wood were murdered and I am not going to divulge it now and probably never will. You wouldn’t believe me anyway.

You are also wrong about Holden’s IMDB fans not accepting facts regarding his death. They only know what was printed at the time of his unfortunate demise so how can they elaborate on any “new” details? I’m sure they had probably not heard of Peter Rydyn so how can they discuss him and his revelations?

Maryanne please don’t put words in my mouth and declare Wm. Holden is my hero. MY GOD, you have certainly not been following my IMDB postings very long. My hero is Jesus anyway.

I knew who Holden was but before March of last year I had only seen him in I LOVE LUCY and NETWORK. After my personal reason for getting into him and his films surfaced I bought his “bio”, about 7 DVDs and starting researching him.

My sister and I have been impressed over the past year discovering how compassionate and sensitive Bill was as a man and actor. BTW, if you told my twin sister that William Holden is my hero she would laugh so loud you could hear it on Pluto. This is what I despise about message boards and is probably one reason my twin has never posted on one. Strangers on the web judge you from the little bit you post or put words in your mouth. No individual I know personally posts on these types of boards and now I am beginning to see why.

As far as my IMDB post about Stefanie Powers being Holden’s killer I am not shocked WHATSOEVER there is no response. What can anyone say after 25 years of hearing lies, embellishment and a colossal cover-up? I asked Peter Rydyn for permission to post his e-mail reponse on the net. Otherwise I would not have done that.

Peter has no reason to “feed” off me. As I stated earlier, I THOUGHT HOLDEN AND WOOD WERE MURDERED BEFORE I EVER EVEN HEARD OF PETER RYDYN. No wonder Schuyler, Chap and others don’t visit this forum any longer. How frustrating to keep defending yourself to complete judgmental strangers. My murder theory now differs from Peter’s somewhat because I believe the gash on Holden’s head was put there by Powers. VERY premeditated. I don’t believe Holden acquired this through a fall at all.

BTW, notice another post of mine on the Holden IMDB board about Bill & Shelley Winters. I asked a personal question about Bill’s life and as usual - got no response. My visits on the Holden board have dwindled greatly in the past several months because the current posters are only interested in discussing Bill’s older films and very little about his personal life. I like the direct opposite. I like to discuss 1960 and later Wm. Holden movies and his personal life from age 20 on. I am very uninterested in his IMDB board at this time because it is boring to me.

In addition, check out the Brenda Marshall, Grace Kelly, Dean Martin, and Alan Young IMDB boards. They ALL have a personal question posted by me with a response of 0. This is certainly not a new phenomenon. I prefer quality over quantity anyway. If one person responds that has a great answer it is better than 50 responses that are stupid. I also think that in some cases some of my interrogation is so “unique” (some may say way too personal) that many folks don’t even come close to having a clue as to how to respond.

The book GOLDEN BOY is a compilation of observations and comments from insiders and friends who knew William Holden. It does not paint a rosy picture of Stefanie Powers and his relationship and after reading the book we got a negative impression of her. Aside from saying she was built like a tomboy and had a foul mouth, it gives the picture of a woman who plainly didn’t have Bill’s best interest at heart.

IMO, Stefanie Powers didn’t understand or really care about Holden. She used him. As GOLDEN BOY stated he helped her out financially and professionally but when she got on the show Hart to Hart she no longer needed him as much. She is also a liar. Powers has embellished her relationship with Holden (Joanne has agreed about this on the IMDB board) so much it becomes very nauseating. Maybe Stefanie’s former assistant, Brian Quintana, who sued her for sexual harassment back in the 1990s knows her character far better than we will.

I don’t see how Stefanie Powers lives with her nefarious self. She is aware she murdered Bill Holden in Apartment 43 at The Shorecliff Towers in Santa Monica, California in 1981. Then as Bill’s murderess she takes the sizable amount of money he left her and begins an animal preservation fund in HIS MEMORY! Puh-leeze! I guarantee you there is something in this “fund” just for HER! How appalling and VERY despicable she is! Ardis Holden, Scott Holden, Billy Wilder, Ronald Reagan and so many others DIED thinking Bill (their friend, father, grandfather, relative, etc.) died alone on a secluded bender when in reality HE WAS FLAT OUT KILLED!

Many people believe Robert Wagner killed Natalie Wood but don't connect the deaths of Holden and Wood. They ARE linked! I believe Powers and Wagner were having an affair during Hart to Hart. Holden and Wood did not wind up dead (“accidents” yeah right) within two weeks of each other as just coincidence. I believe Chris Walken, homo or bi Robert Wagner and Stefanie Powers did it.

Powers should have to cough up all the cash she received from Bill and his estate and GO TO JAIL FOREVER WITH WALKEN AND WAGNER since I don’t think California has the death penalty. What wicked big phonies and heartless fakes these jerks are. Poor Bill Holden. To get mixed up with this depraved cruel bonehead creature.

I am only stating what I firmly believe to be truth and not at all trying to convince any reader to trust my words. You will not change these revelations and my hope and prayer is that all the posters who visit this board will seek truth and reality about these deaths for themselves.

It would have been easier for RJ to simply divorce Natalie rather than kill her. It would have been easier on his kids also. Natalie would have been fine without him. She was able to take care of herself financially...she left millions...and she could have stood on her own two feet...And if Wagner were having an affair with Powers why would he be so insanely jealous of the thought of Natalie with a man. He was a very jealous, possessive husband right up until the very end. I wish I could share more with you but like you, I can't... He remains possessive to this day...I admire and respect William Holden. Please understand that I meant no offense by what I said and I'm sorry if I offended you. Holden, like Natalie left us a great deal to remember them by....more than a fluffy, shallow, TV series. I'm no admirer of Wagner or Powers...and I so agree with you about Joanne. She has a fantasy of them being Jonathan and Jennifer in real life. Wagner couldn't be further from Jonathan. As much as I detest him, I don't think he killed Natalie...he allowed her to die but he didn't kill her. Have you read Joanne's posts on Gary lockwood's IMDB board? LOL. He was abusive too, he USED Stefanie for money...LOL. I read how Joanne said that Bill used Stefanie for money also...I laughed at that because William Holden was wealthy from birth and he earned big money in his career. Today it would be considered minimal but in his day, Holden was a big money maker. He did not need Powers for money as Natalie did not need RJ for money. I could go on forever. I'm sorry that I put words in your mouth. That was not my intention. We disagree on a few things and agree big time on others...

By the way, I have been in touch with Chap. I have tried to talk him into returning. He reads all of this....Hi Chap!!!!

Maryanne,
Do you mean Wagner is still a very jealous, possessive husband to his current wife Jill ?
I don't like him, for me he isn't "mr perfect" as he wants us to believe

No. he is still possessive of Natalie, even in death.

Maryanne,
OMG i hope you're not kidding...if not he realy needs a medical help

Chris,

I'm not kidding. He remains possessive of her. I wish I could say more but I can't.

Girl, you can't leave us hanging like that!!

I understand how you feel. Right now, I can't....I'd like to but I can't.

Some of the people on this board are unbelievable. If you have something to say, say it. All this innuendo is just ridiculous.

But I can play the same game. You know what I heard the other day about Maryanne? Guess what I read about Alobster? I'd love to tell you, but I can't.

For me, the teasing does nothing but make me doubt your story (or your implied "story") even more. Grow up. What are you afraid of? Libel?

Someone confided something , someone who had dealt with Wagner. Libel....don't be ridiculous. You're just a big Wagner fan and can't face the fact that he's not the knight on the white horse that you think he is.....You don't give a damn about Natalie...why are you still here?

If someone confided something then keep it private. No, instead you betray the person's confidence enough to insinuate something negative. So obviously confidence means nothing to you. Spill it or keep your mouth shut.

Really, it's none of your business because you are not here for Natalie..if I was saying something negative about Natalie you would not care but it's about Wagner so you get all hot. Tough, if you don't like it...leave. I'm not going anywhere and if I am able to reveal what I know it will be in private e-mails.

So it's OK to betray someone's confidence in a private email but not on a public message board? Interesting distinction.....

I said that when I'm able to...that means when the person in question tells me that it's ok. You're making too much out of this dear...curious? Seems to me that you want to know more than the others do.

So let me get this straight: you CAN'T spill the beans on a public forum without the source's permission. But you CAN spill the beans via a private email, whether the source gives you permission. I think we have some Bill Clinton logic at work here.

re: if I was saying something negative about Natalie you would not care but it's about Wagner so you get all hot.


Huh? Actually Maryanne, it would be quite the opposite: If I were a Wagner fan, I WOULDN'T want you to post anything negative. So you keeping quiet would be all good with me.

What I find interesting is the fine line you've drawn for yourself. Someone tells you something in confidence and you find it okay to betray that person's confidence via email but not on public message board. I'd love to hear that one defended.

Can you read? I said when I get permission to reveal this I will do so in private e-mails. That means when the person who gave me the info tells me it's ok, I will reveal it to those who want to know in private e-mails. And yes, you as a Wagner fan want to hear all that is said about him whether it's positve or negative...if you didn't we would not be having this conversation, would we?...

You probably think he's a good actor. LOL.

RJ a good actor ? LOL... Paul Newman, Robert Redford, Clint Eastwood, Steve Macqueen, Sean Connery, and several other who have approximately yhe same age arevery good and famous actors but RJ hahaha he can't act .

I personally could care less whether you reveal it or not. It's your tap dancing that I find ridiculous. You and some other people on this board (Alobtser, Chap, Vlad, Schyler, et al.) who tease and insinuate - whether it be about Wagner's personality, his sexual preference, what you heard REALLY happened that night, etc. - are like old time carnival hawkers, "Stay tuned to hear the latest (IF we choose to reveal it, that is)!!"

My feeling is what you've "heard" about Wagner's TRUE personality is probably from someone who knows someone who lives across the street from someone who once parked his car. Or something you've made up completely. Either way, yawn....

Truth be told, as I posted earlier, anyone can make up anything on a message board and say they got it from a reliable source. Some gullible people will believe it (because it fits the template of what they believe) and others will discount it (because it doesn't fit the template of what they believe). Which is why people like Vlad and Alobster will swallow a story like Ryden's hook, line, and sinker. But people like Joanne will immediately discount anything about Wagner that can be construed as negative.

Which is another reason why anything that's posted here should be taken with a grain of salt.

Believe what you want. You would not believe anything negative about him anyway. And if you did not want to know you would not be continuing with this. And in answer to the question about not being a fan of Natalie you said much earlier in your posts that you don't really care how she died. Something to that effect.

ENOUGH ALREADY.......PLEASE

BOTTOM LINE IS NATALIE MARRIED HIM TWICE SO THEIR MUST HAVE BEEN SOMETHING ABOUT HIM THAT SHE LIKED. REMEMBER NATALIE SURROUNDED HERSELF WITH GAY MEN TILL HER LAST DAY, THAT IN ITSELF DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR RJ, BUT NATALIE DID STATE THAT RJ WAS A GOOD LOVER. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE NOW, EVEN IF RJ ANNOUNCED TODAY THAT HE WAS GAY OR BI DO YOU THINK ANYONE WOULD CARE?. THE MAN SLEPT WITH NATALIE WOOD,THAT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

Natalie's statement that RJ was a good lover was in Lambert's book. Lambert's book pumped RJ up as a lover to get a counter-reaction to what was said about him in "Natasha"...Lambert's book was a way to give Wagner the last word.
A man can be a great lover and be bi-sexual. It does not matter to me if he is or is not but it matters to Wagner. He does not want it known. He is from the closed closet era.

There is no proof that Wagner bi or gay.He went from Natalie to Marion to Tina Sinatra and then back to Natalie and had children in the mean time, and lots of women in between. RJ was even spotted making out with a blonde while Natalie was on location in Carolina making Brainstorm. Nevertheless Natalie liked him he was her prince charming. The man did something right he married the most beautiful woman in the world twice.And like I said no one would care even if it came out now.

The blond story was a National Enquirer Article...There was no blond. If there was ,the story would have come out when Natalie was still alive, it would have been all over if Robert Wagner was with a blond...there were no pictures. Your typical tabloid story. I have of the tabloids from this time. I'm not saying that he is gay. I know about his life, who the women were. He has never been a big Hollywood playboy...ever. I've been following his life as long as i have been following his. He is also not the kind of man to publicly humiliate his wife. Natalie and RJ had a very public marriage. During this marriage they constantly talked about how much they loved each other...especially him. I have a huge collection of interviews both written and on video. He is and was very conscious of his image. There is no way he would appear in public with a woman, no way...not in public. I'm not saying that they didn't love each other. there was a huge attraction there. She was under his skin.

No, there were no photographs, but there were several witnesses. RJ was on the rebound because he heard Natalie was fooling around with Walken in Carolina. RJ might have been flirting lord knows Natalie did plenty of that, it was her flirting that might have cost her her life.That was a very volitile time in their marriage Natalie wanting to work again RJ wanting her to stay home, anything could have happened, and it did.

As far as RJ being gay or bi who knows if he is it's been the best kept secret. Maybe it will "come out" in his
Bi - ography.

CSL CSL

If it happened there would have been pictures and it would have been reported at that time...no question. I have everything from that time. The enquirer was the only tabloid to print that. As for his bio...he has complete control over it. It will be a trip down memory lane....nothing more. Yes, they were going through a difficult time. Her working was a big adjustment on both their parts...not just his. It was not easy for her to leave her kids. At this point in her life she felt that she could have it all..the marriage, the kids , the career but it was emotionally difficult for her to leave the kids. In retrospect it was probably good for them that she did because she would be leaving them forever, physically, soon enough...

Vlad, Maryanne,

I don't know if it's true or not, i read RJ dated a blonde who worked for CNN, but it was before he married JIll. Jill moved out a while before they got married. It was around 1988/89

He did date a young blond during a period of time in which he and Jill were having problems. It was very brief. It was not long after that date with the blond that Jill and RJ married. The blond in question was too young to have been the fictitious blond referred to in the Enquirer article. There were pictures of him on a date with the blond he dated while seeing Jill. Jill was putting pressure on him to marry and he was not ready but as I said it he did marry Jill not too long after that period of dating other women.

re Maryanne's post: in answer to the question about not being a fan of Natalie you said much earlier in your posts that you don't really care how she died. Something to that effect.

Whoever said that wasn't me. I am a Natalie fan.

That was not you? If that's the case, sorry.