Hi, everybody! Thanks for having this forum, I never knew one such as this existed! I'm greatful for all of the information revealed here. You see, I am currently authoring my first book about the history of Hollywood and the stars of the past, including Natalie Wood. Currently, I am on chapter 8 of the book which deals with those past stars who died tragically, like Natalie, James Dean, Grace Kelly, Carole Lombard, Jane Mansfield, Carl Switzwer, Sal Mineo, Dorothy Dandridge, and the two girls from "Poltergeist" - Dominique Dunne and Heather O'Rourke.
I've just read through some of the stuff from the "Courtney" postings, and have already learned so much. I've had conversations with Natalie's sister Lana off and on either in person or via e-mails, but the past year she has been unreliable and has basically stopped contact with me for no apparent reason. I found her to be a bit off, mentally, anyway. Nonetheless, she did reveal a lot of information to me that I can use for the book.
Currently, I am fascinated by the book by Suzanne Finstad, titled "Natasha: The Biography of Natalie Wood." Glad to know it offends R.J.! (LOL)
Now, if anyone knows how I can get a copy or a transcript of the Larry King interview with Wagner, please let me know here or e-mail me at michael_j_eastman@yahoo.com. Thanks!
I have my own thoughts and theories on Natalie's life and death, and look forward to sharing them with all of you!
+Michael J. Eastman
Author: "Hollywood Is Dying" (Tate Publishing)
Houston, TX
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Michael - You're GLAD something offends Wagner? Thank you for revealing your biases before I wasted money on your book. Especially since it sounds like another effort to make money by sensationalizing the deaths of celebrities. Unfortunately there's quite a market for that, but you can count me out.
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Wow! A little overreaction there! First of all, my book is not mainly about the death's of Hollywood stars. Hollywood is dying, in case you haven't noticed. They are running out of stories and good actors to portray them. That's what my title refers to.
You're not the first to react wrongly about my title. Legendary Lon Chaney Sr.'s great-nephew (or whatever his relation is) went off crazily, too, when I spoke to him by phone. Instead of asking me what the book was about, he became belligerent, even after I reassured him this was no tabloid-type of book.
Try green tea, my friend, to calm your overreactions. I'm here to learn, not fight with anyone.
+Michael
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You are in the minority if you think R.J. was innocent of her death. Everyone I've spoken with who are ordinary fans tell me they have always suspected he had something to do with her death. Besides, I've lost so much respect for that man from what I've read and from what Lana herslef has told me. He snubbed her, for example, when she pleaded for a little financial assistance to help pay for Natalie's nieces's medical bills. Evan Wood, Lana's daughter, has been stricken with Hodgkin's Disease, and the family is out of money as a result of her medical bills mounting. Lana said he has such a cold heart. The man is despicalbe in every way!
+Michael
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I am currently authoring my first book about the history of Hollywood and the stars of the past, including Natalie Wood. Currently, I am on chapter 8 of the book which deals with those past stars who died tragically, like Natalie, James Dean, Grace Kelly, Carole Lombard, Jane Mansfield, Carl Switzwer, Sal Mineo, Dorothy Dandridge, and the two girls from "Poltergeist" - Dominique Dunne and Heather O'Rourke.
"Stars who died tragically" to me sounds like another attempt to make money of sensationalizing celebrity deaths.
And you also said, "Glad to know it offends R.J.! (LOL)". To me, that shows a bias against Wagner, which is fine; that's your choice. But I'm glad as a reader to know an author's bias going in.
Just a word of advice, and perhaps you'd find this out yourself once you conduct more research: Lana is no angel. For example, Natalie willed Lana her clothes and Lana promptly sold them for some cold hard cash. Can't say I really fault her (what would one do with all those extra clothes anyway?). However, Lana made sure to tell the thrift shops that the clothes belonged to Natalie Wood, making them worth more. And of course that also meant that the thrift shops in turn would advertise them as such. Which they did, resulting in Natalie's panties hanging in a thrift store window advertised as "belonging to Natalie Wood!" What a nice sister.
Lana also wasted no time in making a buck off a Natalie's memory with her book just a few short years after her death. Not exactly something that will endear you to the family.
I won't even go into the things Lana did while Natalie was alive (such as selling Natalie's wedding photos to a gossip magazine - again to line her own pockets).
Nope sorry, she gets no sympathy from me. With all the problems she caused for Wagner and the girls (not to mention Natalie while she was alive) I don't blame Wagner one bit for telling her to pound sand.
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Please, that's the typical response on this board (just go back and read past comments). Anyone who doesn't buy into the theory that Wagner killed her is viewed on this site as a doubter, since that's the prevailing theory here. I have my own theories, but I have no agenda. But even if I did, I'm not writing a book and trying to pass it off as truth.
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Gimme a break! R.J. is a jerk, and always has been!
Everything you told me about Lana is in her book. You left out the part about her abortion, though. I never said she was an angel. Actually, I said she was a little mental. My book isn't about her, though. Anyway, she was free to do what she wanted with the clothes, that's not our business. I doubt seriously there were any "panties" willed to her -- that's ridiculous. Women don't exchange panties. Not normal ones, anyway.
Unless you personally know R.J., he wouldn't give you the time of day, so stop kissing his ass! Or maybe you'd like that, since he is, afterall, bi-sexual.
Those aforementioned late actors/actresses are only part of the book, and only discussed in one chapter. Each chapter honors different actors/actresses, from Doug Fairbanks and Mary Pickford, to Laurel & Hardy, to Shirley Temple, to Hayley Mills, etc. Don't pre-judge it based on tabloid-type books of the past. My book isn't like that. In this latest chapter, I'm looking for answers, like for example, why the Hell John Mauro only got 4 1/2 years for taking the precious life of Dominique Dunne? That coward is said to now be living in the Seattle area and working as a chef again. Kudos to her mother for starting a victims rights charity! I've already sent one person here a chapter to read, but I don't know if I can trust you. You might try to steal it and claim it your own.
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There is no way I would steal anything, but I wouldn't be interested in reading your chapter anyway.
I'm not kissing anyone's ass, and I'm not defending Wagner. I simply am not sucked in by Lana's "woe is me" act, blaming everyone else for her problems.
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Hmmm...I guess only God knows the truth. That whole family was/is disfunctional, nobody's saying otherwise. I just am another fan who isn't satisfied with the way Natalie's drowning was investigted.
I met unofficially today with a psychologist and asked him how logical it would be for a person terrified of dark, deep water to go out on their own in a little dinghy at 2 in the morning or whatever, knowing they could not swim, knowing they are afraid of it, even if they were drunk...would they do that?
His reply was, "Of course not! We know she had some help into the water."
I didn't get his name, but I will get with one officially very soon, so I will have it on record. In fact, I'll get more than one. This will support my theory, as well as countless others, including experts, such as the man that also investigated Marilyn Monroe's death!
+Michael
p.s. Again, Lana is no angel, but she wasn't there when Natalie drowned that night. R.J. was, so the spotlight continues to be on him. At the very least, he was negligent and wreckless that night, being drunk on a boat in open water. And the captain, too, for crying out loud!
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I'm with you on the grounds that Wagner has some culpability; but so did everyone else on board. So did Natalie. Let's not forget that she was also intoxicated. That whole night was a mistake from begining to end.
As for your psychologist's comments - IMO, that hold no weight since another person could find just as many who would say the opposite. It's just like expert testimony in a court case. Doctors for hire saying whatever you want them to say.
You said it in your first sentence, only God knows the truth of what happened that night. All we can do is speculate.
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And I think that's gonna be my conclusion in my book. I despise Robert Wagner for a multitude of reasons, though, and will go out of my way to rip him like so many have! (LOL)
He was responsible for his wife's safety, and he failed her. Any good husband would look out for his beloved wife's welfare. He chose to be a drunk, possibly an alcoholic, instead. His booze, ultimately, was more important to him than his wife.
I still believe he pushed her, but of course cannot prove that. I read some other comments here about there being some semon found in Natalie's body that no one knew who it was from. If Natalie had had sex with an outsider the night before, could that have what triggered the final argument(s) between her and R.J.? Did he find out about it and lose his cool? Of did Natalie make it shore only to be attacked and raped by an unknown assailant, then tossed into the sea?
If the semon thing is true, and that is questionable, would it survive for 24 hours or whatever in her body? In my opinion, something set off R.J. that made him push her overboard. Maybe he then went off to bed irrationally, not caring about his wife being in the water now. The other two men were plastered, too, so they could have been uable to rescue her, even if they heard her cries for help. She could have floated to the dinghy and then tried to get up in it. Or maybe she fell in the water near enough to it, after being pushed by R.J.
I do know one thing, if R.J. is responsible for her death, he will pay come Judgment Day. God sees all and knows all. There is no sin hidden. Unfortunately, Natalie was an agnostic, so she might not fare so well, either, come Judgment Day. I do pray for her soul, though, nonetheless.
+Michael
(The cross you see in front of my name indicates I'm a christian.)
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I dated Kate Wagner in the late 80's. The whole family had issues with their Mom's death but everyone was really concerned about Courtney. I always thought RJ went both ways
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Lana did not sell the wedding photos to a gossip magazine. She sold them to a movie magazine called Silver Screen. Along with the pictures was an awesome story. Lana was not alone in that...her mother arranged the whole scenario as she was friendly with the woman who wrote the article.
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Movie magazine, gossip magazine - pretty fine line, IMO. We're not talking Time and Newsweek.
Lana's husband took the photos so it would stand to reason that they'd have to GIVE them to Mud to sell. And you're gullible if you don't think they got a cut of Mud's profit. If Lana had any integrity and wasn't always trying to make money off of her cash-cow sister she would have said, "Wait a minute. Natalie and RJ wouldn't want their private photos to go to the magazine, so my answer is no." Or at the very least, "Let's check with them first." She's hardly blameless is the deal.
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I did not say Mud took any of the money...I don't believe she did but she arranged it. Lana's husband Richard Smedley was an amateur photographer. Natalie and RJ asked him to take the photos for the wedding. Mud was approached by Marcia Borie to give her all the inside info on the wedding. Mud said OK and offered the pictures. Lana said sure because her mother felt that it would be ok because her mother suggested it...
Lana is not perfect but neither is RJ...far from it.....and you must be very naive if you think that he has told all in the case of Natalie's death...and as far as cash cows, he's king...Lana made a few hundred on those pictures...RJ inherited MILLIONS when Natalie died...and got himself a girlfriend 8 weeks later...now lets weigh the picture incident against that...please...
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Yes, I know how it all came about. But that's hardly an isolated incident. For years Lana used - and still uses - her connection to Natalie to make money. And I find that sickening. You think otherwise. Fine; we all have our opinions.
As for Wagner, whether he inherited money from Natalie was her decision and how she wrote it up in her will. shrug
But I don't see him - or the girls or Olga, for that matter - out there selling Natalie's name to make a buck. That's Lana's MO. If anything, the family has been very stingy in their authorization on the Natalie Wood name. You don't see her name over-saturating the market with every God-forsaken trinket like other dead celebrities (Marilyn Monroe comes immediately to mind).
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when natalie and rj got back together he had nothing..he was in so much trouble financially that she had to bail him out....he was 42 at the time, she was 34...she was loaded...when she died at 43 she left approx 14 million in cash and assets...robert wagner was never a top earning star...never...
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I agree that was wrong of Lana, and she would tell you so, too. But Natalie long forgave her sister for that poor judgment before her death. Old news.
Again, Lana Wood is not the issue here. Who is responsible for Natalie's death is the real issue. Just because Lana did some foolish things doesn't mean she lies about what went on in her sister's life. And what's wrong with writing a book about her sister and/or producing films about her? Better a family member does it than some gossip producer like you see on TV - I forgot the name of that one stupid one I quit watching years ago.
As a consumer, I'd be more apt to buy a book or see a film about my favorite celebrity(ies) if a family member did it than if some gossip show or person did it.
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Lana made a mistake and yes, her sister forgave her...RJ never did.
Lana is not the subject here but you mentioned her, you probably did not know that RJ fans use Lana's mistakes to defend RJ...It happens constantly...Lana is the witch , RJ is the Prince, get used to it. His fans live in a fantasy world believing that he is Mr. Perfect...Prince Valiant
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What mistake could they use to blame her for Natalie's death? Did she get her sister drunk and then take her out on a boat in open water with a similarly drunk captain in charge?!
I believe R.J. pushed her, but was it intentional or accidental? We may never know. Hopefully, the ass tells his daughters the truth on his deathbed -- at least they deserve to know.
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They don't blame Lana for her death, but Wagner holds no culpabilty at all. For some, it's as if he wasn't even in on the boat when it happened. Maryanne is right. I've dealt with their wrath on other sites, espcially imdb.com.
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That's where we differ - I tend to frown on anyone trying to profit off of someone else's success.
Let's say Lana wrote the book when Natalie was still alive. Do you think that it would go over well with Natalie and that she'd be fine with it? I doubt it. I know if I was in Natalie's position and my sister wrote a book exposing all my secrets (as boring as they are, but let's say they're not for argument's sake...LOL) I'd be pissed. So I can't blame Wagner and the girls for reacting the way the did. I'd react the same way.
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...I don't know how their girls reacted, but why would't you want to read a book or see a documentary from someone who has inside information. Otherwise, you'll end up reading stuff from an outside author...like me, for example. (LOL)
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From the accounts I read, the girls were not at all pleased with the Finstadt book. Natasha called it trash. They were more pleased with Lambert's book. But personally, I wasn't. I found it very slanted toward RJ and painted Natalie as a nut job, but that's a whole other thread. LOL
I suppose if you know going in what the author's agenda is, that's one thing. And if it's an "authorized" biography (and by that I mean authorized something by a close member of the family who doesn't have an axe to grind) you have a better shot at accuracy. But even that can fail (see the above paragraph about Lambert's book).
I just don't have any respect for Lana and tend to doubt just about everything she says or writes. She's changed her tune too many times. For example, why did Lana change her story about the Natalie's final night? In her book, it was simply an accident. But the story she told to Finstadt, she painted it to be just this side of murder. Somewhere therein lies the truth, but why the change of tune on Lana's part? Could it be because Wagner and the girls cut off contact with her? Sour grapes on her part? If so, that's a pretty sleezy thing to do.
I'm not a Wagner fan, I'm simply a Natalie Wood fan who doesn't like the way she - or her memory - are treated by Lana. I have more respect for Olga and Natalie's daughters since they haven't tried to cash in on their connection to Natalie.
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...well her daughters don't have to, they're already loaded with dough, thanks to their mother.
Olga seems to be content with her own life, and what could she do but theorize like all the rest of us, since R.J. wouldn't tell her what really happened.
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the girls never read the book they called "trash"...they admitted that. and i agree, lambert had an agenda with his book...he wanted to shine wagner's shoes after finstad scuffed them in her book...wagner wanted the last word.
as for lana's change of heart about the night natalie died, she believed wagner until dennis davern called her and told her what happened...or what he claimed happened...
i doubt that wagner pushed her but i don't believe that he is being forthright about that night. i believe that she was still on the boat when he went to check on her....he saw her before she died...
natalie never would have gone to shore in a nightgown, socks and jacket, drunk or not she never would appear in public like that and at that time there were still people all over the island partying and she that knew from previous experience..and she would never have voluntarily gotten into that dinghy at night...something happened that wagner will take to his grave...we'll never know
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But doesn't that say something about Lana's judgement - that she was willing to believe Davern's story? A man whose credibility has been questioned time after time?
As for that night, I don't think Natalie intended to go to shore either, and the way she was dressed seals the deal for me too. This was a woman who put on makeup to go to the dermatologist, for goodness sake!
There could have been foul play, but I haven't seen any evidence. Everything I've read so far is speculation. But ultimately, I suspect you're right; we'll never know whatever happened that night.
But after all this time, don't you I think that Walken would have said something if he knew anything? I understand Wagner maintaining his silence, but why hasn't Walken told what he knows? I've read the Playboy interview, but that really says nothing that we didn't already know. Do you think he'll say more after Wagner passes on? Or do you think that he really wasn't around when whatever happened happened?
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Davern lives in St Agustine, fl these days. His story as well as the other two changes often because of the amount of booze that was consumed that night. Personally I think that no one that night can remember exactly what happened becuase they were so drunk. I think it was just a tragic accident that could of been prevented if Davern (as skipper of the boat) stayed sober. I think he should shoulder most of the responsiblity. Like a pilot drinking before flying.
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have you read walken's face mag interview???different than the playboy interview...in one claims to have been asleep when rj noticed that natalie was gone,,,in the other he said that he was awake and recalled rj telling them that she was gone....so there is a lie in there somewhere...when wagner dies lips might loosen a bit...maybe walken,,,davern has discredited himself so much that no one would believe him...you go on imdb???
i don't think that anyone killed her but the length of time he took to call for help will always puzzle me and make me wonder....
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Of course, I wrote this prior to reading the Finstad book. So, Lana is a flake, so what. I have reason to be angry with her, too. I contributed several hundred dollars to her either in person or via mail to help fray the cost of her daughter Evan's medical bills for the Hodgkin's Disease, yet she remains indifferent towards me. Go figure!
Nonetheless, I remained focused on R.J., he is to blame the most, one way or another, for Natalie's death. Was it murder, manslaughter, accidental, or negligence? Either way, he's to blame!
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I guess that's where we differ, Michael. I don't give all the blame to Wagner, but he does have culpability.
And I guess that was my point with my ititial posts about your book. Sorry, I came on strong there. FWIW, I simply would be more interested in a book that told the story, laid out the evidence, and let the reader draw his or her own conclusions. I don't enjoy books that sensationalize events to support the author's pre-conceived point of view, especially when the author crams that point of view down your throat every other page. That's one of the reasons that I didn't enjoy Finstadt's book. She REALLY over-emphasized some points, to the point what I was actually saying to myself, "Okay, I get it!". LOL
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I agree with your psychologist friend - Natalie had help going into the water...btw, I posted this on the IMDB board the other day.
"If you do any research on Natalie at all you will find she was terrified of water and had a HUGE fear of drowning. There is no way she would board a dingy in the Pacific Ocean. At night. I think this is probably where Duane Rasure, the corrupt element, lies. BTW, I think Rasure is about the same age as Wagner and lives in CA. They are both near 80.
Too bad they snuffed Natalie out and she never hit retirement age."
I only have a B.A. in Psychology but this aspect of her death to me is a no-brainer.
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I have read some of your posts here and have to say, I find some them quite unbelievable. Especially your fascination with Ryden (a kook of the first order, having read his theories on other boards).
But regardless, I must ask: if you don't believe that Natalie Wood would have tried to board the dinghy at night by herself (which, BTW, I don't either), why don't you believe that she wasn't trying to board it, but simply trying to re-tie it (the official "line") and somehow slipped and fell in? I don't know whether that's what actually occurred, but it does at least seem a plausable explanation.
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So is your theory, Maryanne, that Natalie fell in the water by accident but when Wagner discovered her missing, he panicked and didn't call immediately for help? Had he called sooner, she might have been saved? Do you think he didn't call sooner just because he panicked and didn't know how to handle her disapperance?
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Yes, I think that the time he took to call for help cost Natalie her life. I believe that if he had called sooner she would have been found clinging to the dinghy. He waited too long. Also, in a case like this the Coast Guard is called in immediately. In this case another couple passed before the Harbor Patrol suggested the Coast Guard be called. I think RJ wanted to keep this away from the press as long as he could. He knew that if the Coast Guard was called it would become news...I think that is one of the reasons he waited. His fans make so many excuses. They say that he did not really think anything happened to her..come on...it's dark, it's cold, she was petrified of deep dark water, he introduced her to her sea, he knew that she would NEVER leave the boat alone, at night..NEVER......He used horrendous judgement and that judgement along with their alcohol consumption, cost Natalie her life...
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Roman S. -- you'll get nowhere discussing this with Alobster777. She and Rydyn deserve each other since they're both cut from the same cloth. Nothing is ever an accident.
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I just finished reading Finstad's book and there is a lot more that happenned the night she died per Davern. Part of his story(that he confessed over the phone to Lana in '92) is corroborated by a couple who were on a neighboring boat BEFORE they knew Davern's story.
Bottom line...Natalie was screaming help I'm drowninng and a male voice responded something like Yeah, I'm coming. According to the couple on the nearby boat this went on for a few minutes and they had no idea obviously who it was. Basically, Wagner could have saved her and Davern too, but I think he was afraid or intimidated by Wagner at the time. They say Wagner has never publicly denied the story. It gave me chills reading about it.
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the woman who heard the screams for help was Marilyn Wayne. she said that she was going to report it but heard the response "we're coming to get you." she said that the response DID NOT COME FROM THE SPLENDOUR BUT FROM A BOAT CALLED THE VANTAGE. no one else heard cries for help. one of the harbor patrol guys stated that he did not believe anyone heard the cries because it in all his years he had never experienced anyone hearing cries and not responding in some way..either by contacting the coast guard or harbor patrol or getting in their own dinghy and assisting. Wayne's report came out days after natalie's death. it had nothing to do with davern's story. and davern told stories long before he called lana...long before, in the tabloids where he made a few bucks on the deal... BUT, i agree, she could have been saved if wagner had called the authorities sooner than he did....he waited well over 2 hours. too long...and yes, it's chilling even to think of the hell she went through while that ken doll she married brooded....
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