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Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

November 5 2007 at 11:56 PM
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Dr. Noguchi  (no login)

I find it hard to believe she left the "Splendour" on her own. If she tied up the dinghy to keep it from banging against the "Splendour," fine, but it seems it was UNTIED and then somehow ended up at a far off location, away frmo the "Splendour." How did the dinghy get away from the boat if she didn't untie it?

If she did, why did she? Please tell us if you are just speculating, or if you really have heard expert conclusions on this. Thanks!

 
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Maryanne
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 6 2007, 5:47 AM 

She untied the line to move the dinghy so that it was not banging against the boat outside her stateroom. The dinghy ended up where it was because she grabbed on to it, held on to it and tried to maneuver it to shore...She also tried to climb into the dinghy but could not because of the weight of the red down jacket she was wearing...Some of this comes from your namesake, Dr. Thomas Noguchi and some of it is speculation from a few different people....

 
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Michael
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 6 2007, 5:11 PM 

Well, several thoughts come to mind, though. How come no one on the "Splendour" heard her screaming for help? Surely, she would have been yelling for help. From what I have gathered so far, all three men were still up and awake when Natalie supposedly went overboard, so why didn't they hear anything? I got to the part in Finstad's book where their boating "neighbors" claim they heard her screams. If they heard them, why not those on the "Splendour"? If it was me, drunk or not, I'd be yelling at the top of my lungs for help if I couldn't swim!

Those witnesses may be lying about hearing one or two men mocking her while she was in the water screaming for help, but we don't know for sure. Certainly, I've determined that niether Walken nor Davern had a motive for killing her, or even pushing her overboard in anger. So, there would only be one man's voice taunting her (R.J.'s). But wouldn't have Walken or Davern have heard that, too, in addition to Natalie's screams? Seems logical to me.

Personally, had I been on an adjacent boat and heard what they claimed, I would have dove in after her. Now, I gotta go read why the helicopter never showed up after the witnesses allegedly called for one.


 
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Maryanne
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 6 2007, 6:19 PM 

One of the Harbor Patrol guys stated that he did not believe that there were cries for help. The reason being is that when there are cries for help someone always responds, gets in a dinghy or a speedboat and goes to help. No one would wait. He said that it was possible but not probable that there were cries for help. The woman's name was Marilyn Wayne, the one who heard the cries for help. She also said that the response "We're coming to get you" did not come from the direction of the Splendour but from a boat called The Vantage.
At the time Natalie left for her stateroom, Walken had gone to his stateroom. RJ and Davern remained in the salon.
The authorities have said that she may not have been heard because the other boaters were inside and there was loud music coming from the boats in the area and from the island. It was still early, people were partying.. I tend to believe this may have been the case because more than one person would have heard her if she was capable of being heard.

 
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Michael
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 6 2007, 9:21 PM 

Well, it stands to reason that she would have yelled for help. Without seeing the "Splendour," I don't know much about how the boat is laid out. Is the salon indoors or out? I mean is it an enclosed area or an open one?

How far from the salon to Natalie and R.J.'s sleeping quarters? And, damn, I wish I could go and visit the "Splendour" today. You don't know where it is now, do you?

Thanks for you help, by the way, Maryanne!

+Michael

p.s. All these conversations between us lately have been with the same person (me). Because of some idiot who impersonating me, I have to constantly change. I'll be somebody else tomorrow. (LOL) I expect he'll follow this one up with another fake one. The more you communicate with me, though, the easier it'll be to tell which is the fake. I hope so, anyway. (LOL)

 
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Michael
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 6 2007, 9:30 PM 

Whoops! Forgot to mention that I recently viewed "Just for You" and "The Star."

"Just for You" was good, I enjoyed it, and liked Bing's songs. I especially loved young Natalie's performance! "The Star" was an even better film. This was my first Bette Davis film, and I came away quite impressed with her. Can see why she is considered a Hollywood legend. Natalie was delightful in that one, too!

+Michael

p.s. Too bad ole Bing Crosby was such a bastard in real life to his kids. He beat his one boy Gary so often that the boy ended up on drugs and alcohol! What a jerk!

 
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Mayanne
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 7 2007, 5:56 AM 

Natalie was so cute in both of those films...I remember Bette Davis praised Natalie for her work in the scene on the stairs in The Star. Davis said that Natalie helped her play that scene in the way she responded to Bette...

 
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Mayanne
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 7 2007, 5:51 AM 

Everything is enclosed. There are four staterooms. The Splendour was about 60ft...give or take a foot. I have a video of the interior of the boat when the new owner appeared on Evening Magazine...beautiful....the galley was toward the front of the boat, the salon came next, then down what a land-lover would call a hallway were the staterooms. Natalie and RJ's stateroom was toward the end of the boat. The boat was built in 1960. It came out of Mexico. It was a sport-fisher. The swim-step was at the very end of the boat, not on the side, toward the middle, as most boats are today....


 
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Michael
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 7 2007, 8:32 AM 

Hmmm....I've never heard of that program, sorry I missed it.

Have a good day, Maryanne, gotta run...

 
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Vlad
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 7 2007, 3:13 PM 

It has never been determined why Natalie untied the dinghey. It has never been determined that she untied it at all. It has never been proven that she even touched the rope. Some say the dinghey was banging against the boat stopping Natalie from sleeping, that is a direct lie, Natalie never hit the sack, there were no sleeping pills in her system and she took sleeping pills every night like clockwork. When you are as drunk as she was and have darvon in your system the last thing on your mind is a bang against the wall, in her condition all one would want to do is pass out, clearly something else happened.

 
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Maryanne
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 7 2007, 3:52 PM 

Right, none of any of this has been substantiated. Someone untied the dinghy. All of this is speculation, even the opinions of the authorities is speculation.
She was in a nightgown, socks and a jacket. She went out to that swim step for some reason. It's possible that the dinghy banging against the boat disturbed her...possible...The next night one of the harbor patrol guys spent the night on the boat, he said that he was disturbed by the dinghy banging against the boat. He was the first one to name that as a possibility of what could have happened.
As for the sleeping pills, maybe she felt that she did not need it, maybe she thought she took it when she took the sea sickness pill and the Darvon. Anything is possible.
The only impossibility is that she was going anywhere in that dinghy, at night, dressed in a nightgown, socks and a jacket...I don't care how drunk she was, she would never leave to go to shore under those circumstances...
Again, it's all speculation...no one knows what happened to her....at least none of the authorities...
What I question is if she was on the swim step and fell into the water, why didn't she try to maneuver back to the boat...it was closer than going where she did maneuver to. Who knows what was going through her mind, how frightened she was. Noguchi said that she never would have gotten where she was if she did not take herself there....the tide would have taken her in another direction. Why didn't she try to get back to the boat?...We can talk about this forever and a day....No one will ever know what happened to this poor woman...and if someone who is living does know, he will never say.....

 
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Michael
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 7 2007, 6:21 PM 

Well, I, for one, am discussing it because I am playing catch up here for my book. I haven't been doing this topic for a long time like you guys may have been.

I say again, does anyone know the whereabouts of the "Splendour" today? Any ideas which agency it would be registered under still today? Which one was it registered under the year she died? Is the official name of it still called "Splendour"? I read it was a tourist attraction now.

It is really hard for me, not knowing boats, yachts, etc. very well, not to have a visual on this boat so I can relate to what you guys are saying. I had in my mind the dinghy being tied up at one end of the "Splendour" where Natalie's room was. Are you saying the dinghy was tied to the side of the "Splendour," instead?

How many rooms, suites, whatever they're called are/were there on the "Splendour"?


 
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Maryanne
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 7 2007, 8:29 PM 

The video I have was televised in 2000. A very wealthy man bought the boat and kept it as it was when the Wagners owned it. I'll go back and check to see if he tells where the boat is...I don't know if he changed the name. I doubt it's a tourist attraction but I read that also, before the new owner appeared on Evening Magazine.
The dinghy was tied to the rear of the boat where the swim step was out side Natalie's stateroom. Today, most boats have the swim step on the side. The Splendour was built in 1960. The swim step was at the rear of the boat. That's where the dinghy was tied and where the main stateroom was...
There were four staterooms on The Splendour. One was Natalie and RJ's, one was the children's and there were 2 guest staterooms. There was a galley with all the comforts of home..a step down from the galley is the salon.
The guy who owns it said that even under the best of circumstances the swim step is slippery...treacherous in the colder weather.

 
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Michael
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 7 2007, 11:44 PM 

What is the significance of the "swimstep" in regards to this case?

Also, I will be phoning the CA Dept. of Motor Vehicles tomorrow to inquire about the "Splendour" to see if it (or any other vessell) is (still) registered under that name.

 
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Maryanne
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 8 2007, 5:48 AM 

The swim step is where she would have stood if she were re-tying the line. It's usually covered with algae. It's been said that there was no algae on the swim step that night but no one has anyway of knowing that. Even without the algae, though, it's very slippery in the cold weather.

 
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Roman S.
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 8 2007, 10:41 AM 

I'm a diver & I can tell you that even in the best water & weather conditions getting on to a boat with just a wetsuit is not an easy task--let alone at night with a heavy water logged down coat.

 
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Roman S.
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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November 8 2007, 4:21 PM 

THE ABOVE IS NOT ME!!!!

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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July 6 2009, 6:56 AM 

She didn't touch that dinghy. More of Wagner's lies.
For almost 28 years Wagner has relied on the stupidity of his flock to believe whatever horse **** he threw at them.
Very soon Wagner and his flock will be eating that horse ****!

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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July 6 2009, 8:28 AM 

she never touched that dinghy, she un-tied a rope. read the book, by all means read the book.

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Has It Ever Been Determined Why Natalie Untied The Boat?

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July 6 2009, 7:26 PM 

Wagner never said with certainty that she touched the dinghy. It was a theory as to why she might have gone on deck.

Maybe the reason Wagner's fans feel compelled to defend him is because there is so much untruth out there, spread by people like you.

 
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