"Dr. Noguchi, now that you have reviewed Robert Wagner's first press release through his lawyer, immediately following Natalie's death, and you see that there are inconsistencies in his statements, if not outright lies, what do you conclude now?"

the statement from paul ziffren was not intended for the police, it was intended for the press. he acted as wagner's spokesman to the press...
the lack of any concrete evidence of foul play in the police investigation was what lead him to the accidental drowning conclusion. what i have always wondered is what the police who were involved feel now that wagner told the truth about that night as far as the argument was concerned. he told them that there was no argument, just a heated discussion about something general like politics...so the police concluded at that time that the argument was not over her. he lied to them and made them look like incompetent fools. whether the lie had anything to do with her death is immaterial, but when a person lies about one thing who knows what other lies he has told???
in the case of drowning an autopsy does not conclude very much. it is the condition of the body at the time that it is discovered that tells the experts if the victim was alive before the drowning. a drowning victim who is killed first and then thrown in the water does not have the foam emitting from the mouth and nose as natalie did. that foam is one of the things that police look for in a drowning...right there they concluded that she was alive in the water. during the actual autopsy they do the blood and toxicology tests to see if drugs or alcohol played a part in the death, they look for fresh bruising on the exterior and do a fluoroscope to look for internal injuries...then they do the tests of each organ. from the autopsy they concluded that she drowned, accidentally and that she was intoxicated and had taken a pain pill and seasickness pill. there was no evidence that she was pushed but there was evidence that she fell. the bruise on the cheek had an upward direction to it. from this came the possibility that she fell and hit her face on the side of the dinghy. the bruise was not severe enough to indicate that she was pushed. the other fresh bruises on her body were indicative of her attempts to climb into the dinghy. the autopsy concluded that before the drowning she was a healthy woman. they did discover an arrhythmia but they concluded that it was due to the drowning. it's an indication that the victim tried very hard to fight the drowning and it taxed her heart. it was because of this arrhythmia that they tested her for narcotics such as cocaine, ppc etc. they wanted to make sure that drugs did not cause the arrhythmia. all those tests were negative. the autopsy was as complete as any could be but it could not answer all the question asked about her death, that's where the police investigation comes into play...interrogations etc...
everyone has there own baseless theories about natalie's death but the fact is we will never know...too many voices, too many lies, too much tabloid, too much time has gone by.

Very good summary, Maryanne. And if I might add, since there is no way we will ever know, Natalie's memory is subjected to all the ridiculous theories we see on sites like this one. That makes me sad. Let the woman rest in peace.

That's all well and good, but I didn't ask that.

The question, Dr. Noguchi, is what is your reaction or comment NOW/TODAY, given a copy of R.J.'s statement, and seeing things stated that were not true?

This is what Suzanne Finstad should have asked had she the courage. My follow-up question would have been: "Did you not ever hear or read any of Robert Wagner's public statements and check to see if they were true?" Didn't the police, either?

They all dropped the ball, as far as I'm concerned. They were all so quick to believe anybody involved and quickly get on with their next case.

Why weren't R.J.'s false statements ever put into play in this case? Nobody gave a shit, that's why. Or that's what's apparent, anyway. Typical L.A. police/sherrif dept.! No wonder the rest of the U.S. disrespects them!

wagner did not clarify any of davern's statements until after finstad's book was a done deal. it was in lambert's book that he admitted, for the first time, that there was an argument and it was over her...in between wagner kept saying that there was no argument or that it was about politics....we don't know what rj told the police about the argument but the statement made at the very beginning was that it was not over her, which it was...
i think the press attention in this case made the wheels turn faster than they would have if mary smith had died. the LAPD, most notably Dwayne Rasure, moved too fast. Noguchi was only the coroner. he did his job. it was the homicide detectives who dropped the ball....let me say this, the biggest defense of wagner's fans is the finding of the LAPD...to them the puzzle pieces fit into place...to me there are too many missing pieces to the puzzle....

Yeah, Rasure and the other law enforcement officials should have followed up on R.J.'s false statements that he called the Coast Guard immediately, that he took his "cruiser" and went to search for her. He also lied about her often taking the dinghy out all alone at night. Of course, the police couldn't verify that right away, though. There were other lies, too, in his statements that could have been proven false had someone done there job!

I'm to visit the coroner's office in my local town to ineterview them about proper procedure when reporting what has happened to a deceased person. Do they hide important facts just because the victim or dead person was famous?

those were things he told the press and things that he said interviews. the exact time of his first call for help was a matter of record. they knew when he called for help. as for him looking for her, i don't believe that. he told her older sister olga that, she believed him at the time. i don't know what she believes now...

What did he tell Olga? In Finstad's book, it says he went to search for her, but not with his own watercraft.

he told her he took his speedboat. i think that is another untruth that he has told.

So, she believed there were three watervessels out there that night belonging to R.J. and Natalie?

Is she dumb, or what? Did Natalie ever mention a "speed boat" to Olga? Of course not!

According to someone's account in Finstad's book, R.J. did use a government one (or some kind of watercraft) to search ashore for her, but it was not his, and he didn't pilot it.

Did Olga really think R.J. in his drunken state could ever man a boat responsibly to look for Natalie? Why didn't she ask him that?

"Oh, then, R.J., you had sobered up by the time you took your boat and went out to look for Natalie, is that right?"

That Olga can't be that bright if she bought his story!

olga was very bitter about happened to her sister. what she believes, I don't really know for certain.
the craft RJ had on board was a small speed boat...a ski-doo type of vessel.
RJ was not too happy with olga because she spoke to suzanne finstad.
she a comment about her sister dying while the 3 men were getting drunk. she made the comment about him looking for her all night in Lambert's book, I believe...of course.

A Sea Doo is far from a "speedboat".

it was some kind of small sea vessel.

"Small" would certainly describe a Sea Doo. It's like a jet ski. It's pretty hard to operate one though while drunk. It would be like not just driving a car drunk but driving a small dirt bike type motorcycle while drunk. Maybe Wagner wasn't as intoxicated as has been described. If he WAS drinking heavily around that period (which appears to be the case from all accounts) maybe he wasn't drunk, just buzzed. He certainly couldn't have been fall down drunk, out of his mind drunk, and managed to operate a Sea Doo and gotten back to the boat safely...in the dark. Not without a lotta luck, that is.

I've never read anything about that vessell except here. Therefore, I will discount it until I hear or read otherwise.

Even if it did exist, there is no way he could have operated it intoxicated. There is zero doubt by all the witnesses interviewed that R.J. was plastered -- ZERO!!!

It was a lie, plain and simple, that he took anything he owned out to look for her!

I know they had a jet ski on board in the mid - late 70s. I've seen pictures in magazines of Wagner and the kids on it. Sea Doos came out later, so it is possible they bought one to replace or go with the jet ski.

As for riding it drunk, you're correct (as I indicated in my above post). So that means one of two things could have happened. 1) Wagner wasn't as drunk as people now believe or 2) he didn't take it to look for her.

Beginning with the second point - I've only read that he personally went to look for her from a few sources, so I don't know how true it is. The fact that the harbor patrol and CG looked for her is certainly accurate, albeit not as soon as they could have (but that point as been discussed ad nauseam on this board.)

As for the first point - With the things we know about Wagner's drinking during that time period, I tend to think that he wasn't all that drunk. When one builds up a tolerance to alcohol, it takes an awful lot to get one "drunk" as in unable to function.

Nonesense! Both the police and the others who previously responded all claim he was incoherent and/or drunk.

Read the "Wine List," if you will in Finstad's book to see how much booze was actually consumed by R.J. and his party. This isn't Finstad making it up; it comes mostly from the restaurant's employees.

Also, you are assuming there was a small Ski-Doo, or whatever it's called, on board. No documentation of it existing, so far - at least on that week-end. No witness seeing R.J. on it looking for his wife (as if he could do so drunk).

He could have also had Bozo the Clown pajamas on, but that's not been documented, either. Better to go with what is known or stated, and then break that down.

I've never read or seen anything FROM A LEGITIMATE SOURCE that said Wagner was drunk to the point of incoherence. If he was, how did he make himself understandable when he called the harbor patrol or spoke to the CG?

Had he been drinking? Yes, there is no question about that fact. They all had been drinking. But as I've already stated, Wagner drank heavily around that time, which means the amount of wine or other alcohol consumed would not have had the affect on him that it might have on someone who didn't drink as much.

There's your facts.

I don't know if this is Maryanne or that "other" anonymous person, but it's in Finstad's book. I'm getting ready for work, so can't fiddle with this right now, but will later, if you wish, quote those who are on record stating R.J. was plastered (or choose your own word).

It's the Anonymous Jerk.

I don't consider Finstadt a legitimate source. Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it's true.

Police documents/reports would be an example of a legitimate source, IMO. Produce a police report saying he was so drunk he was incoherent and then we'll talk. But you won't be able to because there isn't one.

There are legitimate sources, but I no longer discuss Natalie with you.

p.s. Finstad didn't just sit around and make up a bunch of stuff. She did her research and conducted numerous interviews. Just because she points the finger of blame at your beloved Wagner doesn't mean she's lying.

You say you won't respond, yet you responded. Whatever....

First off, he isn't my "beloved" Wagner. I'm simply trying to look at things objectively. Although, since you have no objectivity on this issue, it doesn't surprise me that the fact that I'm not out to HANG him translates in your book as being a fan.

Secondly, I don't dispute that Finstadt interviewed people, but that doesn't mean each and every person was a legitimate or reliable source (Davern being the best example). By all accounts, the police investigation never indicated that Wagner was so drunk he was "incoherent" as you say. End of story.

"Tomatoe, Tomato!" What's the difference? He still could not have successfully operated a watercraft on his own that night!

I didn't say "repsond," I said "discuss" Natalie. We're currently discussing Finstad, R.J., and the police.

"Respond" vs. "Discuss". What a politican. You sound like Bill Clinton, "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is."

It's not tomatoe/tomato. You're just not willing to admit that Wagner wasn't as drunk as Finstadt made him out to be. He certainly had been drinking, but by the accounts of LEGITIMATE SOURCES he wasn't fall down drunk.