Mr. Anonymous' math is off, not to mention his brain! He forgot to subtract the way Natalie was dressed. She would not have gone anywhere dressed like she was, even had she been the world's most experienced dinghy driver!

Nat Form Browser: You can tell it's me by my login name. It should say "mjeastman," regardless of what other name I use. I only use the following:

Michael J. Eastman
Michael
Dr. Noguchi

Now, about your replies: You, too, forget the way Natalie was dressed. Going outside to check something barefoot is not the same as me going a long distance from my apartment. I might briefly go out to check on the noise I heard, but I wouldn't go by barefoot to the police station to tell them about it.

It's a shame you do not take the second anonymous person's information seriously. Her name is Maryanne, and she has done nearly a lifetime of investigating on Natalie and her tragedy. You, too, need to remove your rose-colored glasses, like she did. You cannot logically explain away two hours wasted by R.J.. Normal people are not going to buy that. You don't sit around and drink for two hours, "hoping for the best," when you know:

a) The bar and restaurant are closed.

b) Your wife cannot swim.

c) Your wife is terrified of dark water.

d) You wife has no history of disappearing, nor operating a dinghy at night.

TWO HOURS, SIR! TWO HOURS DOING NOTHING BUT DRINKING!

Now, I will give you credit for your suggestion that maybe R.J. was not sober enough to make that intelligent decision. I would accept that before I accept that he was blameless for waiting two hours.

I do not know if he pushed her overboard or not. I have no proof of how Natalie got in the water. I'm hoping Dennis Davern provides us with that proof soon in his pending book. But, for now, here is what I do know:

1) Natalie would not have gone out in public dressed the way she was: no panties on; no bracelet on; no make-up; no proper attire; no shoes.

2) Natalie had no history of taking the dinghy out alone, day or night.

3) R.J. waited two hours or more to search for his wife, whom he knew was afraid of the dark water and could not swim, and who knew the bar and restaurant were closed.

By the way, you can most likely exclude Chris Walken. He is said to have been seasick and asleep, so he was not there to see what happened to Natalie. Who knows what Davern saw, or where onboard he was when Natalie went over? Well, he does. It's high time he told us what he knows.

Your theories/opinons, Nat Form Browser, are respected, but not logical to me. Nonetheless, you have the right to them.

+Michael

p.s. I know what you mean about getting confused with the two anonymouses. I wish Maryanne would go back to using her name, so she'd get the credit for what she reveals to this forum. That other anonymous guy is just an annoyance, and will never consider the possibility of foul play on the part of R.J. Maybe you won't either, I don't know.

Michael, Michael, Michael. I'll overlook your personal attacks since it's become clear that you can't help yourself. Apparently, it's just the way you are. A tiger can't change his spots and you're not capable of having a civil discussion without attacking those you don't agree with. :shrug:

Once again I AGREE WITH YOU about her state of dress being the biggest clue that that she didn't intend to leave the yacht. But have you thought about the fact that when she was discovered to be missing, no one knew exactly just how she was dressed? It wasn't until her body was discovered that it was revealed that she was in a nightgown? Can you understand that??

I know you like to play Junior Columbo, but to do so you really need to look at the events of that night as if you are there as it they're happening and without the knowledge of how it all turned out.

Secondly, it is NOT true that she didn't ever take the dinghy out on her own. She did many times during the day. She just wasn't known to do it alone at night.

Lastly, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Davern's latest version of "the truth". You act as if he's going to finally spill the beans once and for all and validate your fantasy of foul play. But in doing so, he'd open himself up to all kinds of legal woes. If he were to reveal that Wagner threw Natalie in and stood there and mocked her while she drowned, why didn't Davern step in and rescue her? Why didn't he tell the police? And don't give me that bunk about him being afraid of Wagner....please. Even if that was his initial response to their questioning, he's had 26+ years to set the record straight. Why hasn't he done so? And why did he have to write a book to do it? If he really knows something, he should go to the authorities AND NOT cash in on what he knows. That just casts even more suspicion on him and his latest story.

natalie very rarely took the dinghy alone during the day and never at night. the only time she did it during the day was in an emergency situation, for instance if bad weather was approaching she would take the kids to shore but dennis always untied the lines and started the engine. natalie NEVER took the dinghy out alone at night. In all other situations she was either with RJ or with Dennis or both. If they were not available and she wanted to go to shore she took a shore boat.

But she DID take the dinghy alone during the day. We can disagree on how often it happened, but we can both agree that she did.

only under emergency circumstances and when the boat was moored close to shore. she never started the dinghy by herself. Dennis did that for her and Dennis untied the lines which, may i add ,is not an easy thing to do. in rough waters in can be difficult for an experienced sailor.

You are all wrong. VLAD KNOW AND YOU KNOW VLAD KNOW.

vlad know nothing. no one takes vlad seriously because he uses that fake broken english. vlad is a sicko.

I disagree that she only took it in "emergency" situations. But neither of us was there, so as I said before we'll have to agree to disagree.

Unless someone has proof, we cannot agree on that. Taking it with her kids does not qualify as "alone."

Why do I make that point? Because, some think she left that fateful night alone in the dinghy. I don't. If she did take it with the kids during the day, then in her mind, she would have been responsible, and taken care not to do anything dumb to upset it and cause them to drown.

You would think that drunk, she would know that she would be in no condition to operate the dinghy, even if she had experience. The only thing with me is, I've never been drunk, and I am not a psychiatrist, so I cannot give personal or professional opinions. But, I try to go with the odds. Common sense tells me she would not take the dinghy out all alone at night when she was terrified of drowning.

Maryanne, technically then, when she took her kids in the dinghy, she was not alone.

There is no history of her ever taking the dinghy alone. But, thanks for the insight on what Davern would do for her when she was the driver. I didn't know that.

that's true, she would not be alone but she would have been the only adult on board and the one who operated the dinghy. natalie was not helpless on the boat but she did not do things like untie lines and start up the dinghy because she did not have to.

Mr. Anonymous, I never read your whole articles, but I read enough to say this: Hmmm...well, I guess a fish removed her panties from her body. And her shoes. And her bracelet. And...etc.!

Please! Use something logical, would you?

By the way, Mr. Anonymous: in reply to your other message to me...no, I do not need help. To answer a question that has been asked to me is rude. Do you do that in person, too? How many times has someone punched you for that?

I agree this is a public board, and that most of the time it's a general discussion, but that person had asked me, specifically, the question. You felt the need to butt in, for some reason.

Now, I gotta go. I'm tuned in to the NCAA Basketball Championship game.

GO JAYHAWKS!!!

Sorry if you took my comment as rude, Michael, but I was completely serious. You have real territorial issues, exhibited by the way you lose your mind anytime I post something. You don't OWN this board. We are all free to post as we see fit. Get a grip.

You don't read my articles? That's good, because I don't write "articles". But what the heck does this mean: A fish removed her panties?? What??

I'm really beginning to doubt your intelligence, Michael. Do you comprehend what you read? For the hundredth and sixth time - I also don't think she intended to leave the yacht and I agree that she wasn't dressed to go anywhere in public.

But - and this is a HUGE but - that conclusion couldn't have been drawn until her body was found and her state of dress was apparent. At the time she was discovered to be missing from the yacht, no one knew her state of dress. What they DID know was that she was missing and the dinghy was missing. What conclusion would you have drawn? Aliens? Any reasonable person would have put those two factors together as Natalie left in the dinghy. Out of character for her, but a reasonable conclusion.

Sorry, but our timezones do not match, so it's back to the first messages...

First of all it's not that I didn't take seriously Maryanne messages (previous thread) and I'm sorry if I gave this impression, it was not meant to. If you are referring to my 'Columbo joke', that was just a joke, nothing more.

In those same messages she suggests 'prior knowledge' from RJ part that would've made a sooner call to the Coast Guard being of no difference at all as to the results. If my English does not fail me, that would lead only in one direction...

Anyway the 'sitting and drinking for almost 2 hours' comes from Davern and honestly I do not think of him as the most reliable source.
And if-as he says- RJ prevented him to help Natalie out of the water, that would make Davern an accessory to a crime or alleged crime.
As accessory he had kowlwdge that a crime was being committed and failed to report it to local authorities; his assistance being one of concealment, and by his inaction he was helping the 'criminal'.

I do not forget the way she was dressed, and that again suggest me that something occurred that made her to get up and fix/check something.
And I have to agree with Anonymous, they did not know the way she was dressed, Nat only said she was going to her stateroon, not to bed. RJ could only guess. And he could only guess her whereabouts.

RJ is not 100% blameless. He made mistakes, acted foolish, but he was not the only one who did. Everybody on board made mistakes, no one excluded. Well, perhaps Walken, he was sleeping sea sick all the time...
But from acting foolish and making mistakes to negligent homicide, as someone suggested also in past threads, it's a long way. Remember that we are looking at things with hindsight.

There was no 'guilty act' from RJ part and there was no 'guilty mind'. I do not see any wilful neglect in RJ actions It's not that he did not search for her AT ALL, his judgement clouded by alcohol, he was slow to react in an emergency - as Natalie was, too, as stated by Noguchi -. And even an omission, failing to do something, does not make a person criminally liable, j
he may be morally wrong.

Post Scriptum
While unlikely Natalie took the dinghy alone at night, for the reasons you all have expressed, wasn't this the best hypothesis RJ could make as opposed to her falling in the freezing water? And this, however improbable, illogical it seems to us and perhaps however illogical it might have seemed to RJ. After all, both her and the dinghy were missing. If we were on that same yacht, and a friend was missing, would our first thought be of a terrible tragic fall, or possibly a less dramatic explanation, however absurd?

We wouldn't say 'God he/she fell!' but noticing that a mean of transportation was missing too, we would say 'Where is he/she? Where did she go?

for about a half hour i would say, where is she, but after that short time, given that she could not swim and would never take the dinghy out alone at night, i would have thought, "i better can the coast guard because this is not like her." it was something that she had never done...

If you were sober, I would add. And your brain was functioning at 100%. But he was drunk and had an argument with his wife...you have to take into account that, too. These are not meant to be mitigating circumstances, they are just the reality of how things were that night.

let me make myself clear. i'm not saying that the moment he noticed she was gone ,doom should have entered his mind. i have always said that when someone is late coming home, one does not say "oh, she must have gotten in an accident, she's dead."....of course not, but after a reasonable amount of time it should have entered his mind that she could have been in some danger...better safe than sorry...over 2 hours is long time for anyone to be missing from a boat at night, especially someone who could not swim and was afraid of dark water. it was totally out of character for her. he waited too long for whatever reason. even back when i was a wagner supporter, and i was for a very long time, the length of time he waited always bothered me because under the circumstances, it did not make sense and no matter how you slice it, it will never make sense.

I was reading a review about Christopher Walken today and I thought about Natalie Wood. Oddly, I haven't thought about her in years. I came to this board after some googling and am not surprised to see that her death is still reviewed. I've read most of the published accounts available. The Vanity Fair article from year ago clearly shows that Davern has come forward. I saw a couple of his interviews, also, that clearly shows he has come forward. He's trying to let us know. I haven't seen any inconsistencies in his versions. Why does all here say he changed his story? I see no evidence of that. The version in the Natalie biography was from her sister. Purely, it could've been drawn from the woman who heard cries for help. I wouldn't trust Lana Wood. As for Davern, I'd still give him a listen. Davern is the key. I would turn him the right way to open the door, before condemning him. Heck, I'm still neutral, but not blind.

I think for most of us, me at least, Davern lost all credibility when he and his girlfriend were on Geraldo's show back in the late 80s and they were caught backstage on a hidden camera plotting about "which story" they'd tell Geraldo. If he was there to tell the absolute truth about what happened, no plotting would be necessary.

I saw that Geraldo show. Now all can be told I think it was called. Didn't look to me like Davern was plotting backstage. And I don't think it was his girlfriend with him, It was his writer. 3 lawyers on that show recognized the anguish on their faces. I think they were set-up or the show somehow screwed them over. That's what it looked like to me. From what I remember, she was saying that they had to do it right, not there, but somewhere else. It looked like they had some heavy information they didn't want to drop there. I can't blame them. Discussing an interview isn't plotting. That's all it looked like to me. She looked for real. Does anyone know where to see this again? I'd like to see it again. Damn, you people got me hooked here. LOL

I still have it on tape and they were definitely discussing which "version" to tell. Define it anyway you wish, but to me that's plotting. Moreover, if they weren't there to tell the truth and reveal what they knew, then why were they there at all? And if he really does know something more, why hasn't he STILL revealed it?

Well, I can't remember all of the show but maybe they weren't there to tell all of the facts, maybe just some of them. I have a friend who has done interviews (totally diiferent area) and he says they always pre-discuss the agenda. Still, from what I remember, looked like that's all they were doing. But I also remember the girl saying something about, let's not do this after what you told me last night...like something happened and she didn't want to work with that kind. Like she convinced Davern to not want to work with them either. I bet that's all it was. Hell, if they wanted to lie, they could've sat there and said anything. SOme of it wan't on the behind the stage camera. SOme of it was part of the interview. I distinctly remember that a interview started. Davern was Natlaie's bodyguard the night before she died on Catalina. He could've said he had sex with her if he wanted to lie and make money. BTW, most of these shows don't pay anything. My friend knows that for a fact. You get publicity for doing the shows for free. Doesn't look like Davern wanted publicity to me. He could've said anything at any time even in the Vaniety Fair article. I haven't seen anything he personally offered that has changed. I still think they were dicussing what details of the facts to tell, not making up lies. That would've been done way beforehand, wouldn't ya think?

I agree that pre-interviews are done. But Geraldo must have been suspicious to hide a camera back stage. Doesn't that fact alone raise some red flags?

LOL. Geraldo probably had nothing to do with the set up. The hosts of shows like that are never present during an interview.
And i Wouldn't doubt that Geraldo's folks have pulled this kind of thing 90% of the time. That's what they thrive on. Still looked to me like they were duped.
I'm going to stick around tonight, and maybe even come back more. I have the Vaniety Fair article I'm gonna read again.

In saying "Geraldo", I meant the staff of the show, not Geraldo himself. I should have stated that more clearly.

maybe we stated it incorrectly, dennis did not change his story, he kept adding details. it's been widely reported that RJ kept him under lock and key after Natalie died because he knew that reporters wanted him, badly. and pat, i agree, if he wanted to make money he could have told many stories that would have gotten more attention than what he has already told and lying about having a sexual relationship with natalie would have made him rich.
i saw the show, i ,too, have the DVD...it did not look good but we really don't know what went on behind the scenes. i watched it the other night and asked myself if it could have been a simple set up. i think the less said about it the better, instead, i'd would love to sit and talk to dennis about what happened that night. out of the three men he looks like the liar because he is just a regular guy and because he dealt with the tabloids but he may very well be the only one who is telling the truth.

I just finished reading the Vaniety Fair article again and I think, from what it said about Davern not even telling his writer all the details yet, by the year 2000, that maybe the writer and Davern were having some problems back in the early 90's when the Geraldo show aired. That's what I remember from the show, lots of confusion. But, that show means nothing next to the real questions. What in the hell happened that night? I hope we'll hear from Davern again one day. It says in the article, he took no payment for the interview and I have it under good source that Vaniety Fair pays well...6 figures to start. No one has heard from Davern since. I for one would like to hear from him again. Whoever anonymous is, you've got a good voice. You posted one of the most sensible postings I've seen here (I read over a 100 today) I 100% agree with you: no one knows what happened with that show or on that boat. I was a fan of Natalie Wood's forever. That woman had something you just don't see these days. What a loss.

I think when Davern added details, they eventually conflicted with what he said earlier. And the Vanity Fair article changed quite a bit from what he said earlier.

In the 80's, he said they discovered Natalie missing and they searched the yacht, including Chris Walken's cabin, then called for help after she failed to return.
In the 90's, he said they knew Natalie was overboard. If they knew that, why search the yacht as stated earlier?
In 2000, he said he didn't know Natalie was missing until 1:30, and they called for help right away.

As far as Robert Wagner keeping him "under lock and key" as you put it or "under his [Robert Wagner's] influence," as Davern put it, just who was influencing him to stay when Robert Wagner left the country for a month at Christmas time?

he was not gone for a month. 2 weeks.