Sunnflower,
I see at Ginger's review at Amazon's Goodbye Natalie page that you are accusing someone of being me. It isn't me, troll. I was kicked off the RJGroup over a year ago and could give a flying you know what about what goes on there. I read everything that goes on at Rulli's Amazon Page but I do not post there as I didn't purchase my copy of Goodbye Natalie at Amazon, thus I don't have a posting account. All of the BS you and Jocko spew there have tempted me to get an Amazon account but then I realized, oh yeah, I really don't need to address these trolls when so many others, such as the person you are accusing of being me, is already adeptly taking care of it. You two look like imbeciles at that review.

Stop accusing others of being me. Last year I went to the RJ Group to see what I could learn about him. I learned plenty. I learned that I would never want to be associated with the likes of some of the fans there. Jessica was decent to me, and a few others, but the lot of you were sickos. I also learned that RJ isn't worth talking about. So, getting booted was fine with me. I've talked with Jessica since. I sure hope she isn't one of your buddies now. That would disappoint me about her. Anyhow, tootles, Sunnflower. You are way off base on this call, as you are with most things you post. No need to address me, either, I won't be answering. Just wanted to point out how wrong you always are. That's worth it to me.

Sunnfllower is accusing me and my husband of being this Jay person. Is that you? Are you the Jay she referred to on Amazon? Sunnfllower thinks she is all that and a bag of chips with the RJ crowd but they will feed her to the sharks the first chance they get. All they do is talk behind member's backs and listen to stories people make up and then they boot the people off for no reason! I have been a member there for years and so has my husband and my sister but no one knows it and noone will ever know because we know exactly what to say and how far to take it. Just like with this post and my husband's comments on Amazon.
They think they have everything figured out but they are so stupid. They toss people off there who do nothing wrong just because they get a bug up their rear ends and think they know everything.
So Sandy thinks you are me and my husband. That is so comical and I'm sure the REINSTATED moderator falls for her garbage too!
They really do think they are being loyal to RJ by condoning the lunatic rants of Sandy and Jocko and those creeps signing bogus names and places to a petition!
My husband is right! RJ certainly has a bunch of the weirdest fans.

Hi Alice.
Yes, I'm Jay, the person Sunnflower is accusing you of being. I saw she was accusing someone at the Amazon review of being me, but I didn't know it was you. I got a kick out of it as it shows her stupidity.
She's a joke and a half. I stopped posting at this death board long ago because Jocko and Sunnflower drove me away (and obviously, many others felt the same.)
I couldn't stand that RJGroup when I was there. Those people made me so angry as they constantly made up their own stories and scenarios and fed off each other's lies. WHen I couldn't take it any longer and voiced my true opinions about them, I got booted. I saw it happen to others, too, just because they didn't post every day about how gorgeous RJ is (it sickens me to look at photos of that man). That's really the way it was there. I bet Joann is just loving Sunnflower. LOL, I bet they are best friends by now. I don't post comments at Amazon. I still feel strongly about the Natalie case, and I've heard some real good things about it, but my lips are sealed. Let them eat crow while wiping the egg off their faces. They amaze me. There isn't one factual sentence they contribute. Not one!

Nice to meet you Jay. It is my husband that was accused of being you and when he confronted her with it she got nasty as usual. My husband said he vaguly remembers your name on that group but I don't remember it at all. Sorry. You must not have been there that long.
We are sure this all begins with a group moderator, a supposed adult who signs off with "luv" and who always accuses people of things and another person who was thrown off there last Fall but has come back with all sorts of different screen names and tales to tell followed by the inane "LOLS". They have hurt so many innocent people just because they might have a difference of opinion. This has been going on for years and years not just since the Rulli Davern book was published. We always stayed in the background but they seem to never learn their lesson. This is especially true of one person in particular. As my husband said, when they are given a taste of their own medicine they don't like it. My sister was thrown off that group two years ago because she never posted and they THOUGHT she was a spy. She never said a word but because she never posted she was called a lurker. How ridiculous is that?
If you were thrown off there you certainly are better off. Have you seen the comments and posts from people on that group who travel to other groups and also post on here? Disgusting lies, filthy language and comments but when they are called out on it they make feeble attempts to twist things in their favor.
You certainly are better off without all that nonsense.
AAB

When I was on the group, I saw how clear it was that most of them had not a drop of sympathy for the death of a young mother. All that meant anything was RJ. RJ worte in his book that he is responsible for Natalie's death and they can't even see why. He told about smashing the wine bottle in his book, and they can't even see how that verifies Davern's story all along. Davern is only believable when they want him to be. If Davern said tomorrow that he made it all up, then they would believe him.
At the RJGroup, I even saw an outright hatred for Natalie (by some members), but it's easy to see that that's because Natalie so outshined RJ in every aspect of life: looks, parenthood, acting, level of stardom...

They despise Rulli for seeking truth. They call people crazy for believing in Goodbye Natalie, which is nothing more than a quest for truth. I had joined the RJGroup for one reason and one reason only: I really couldn't believe people such as those RJ fans really exist: people who can twist facts, block sympathy, and be so robotic all for the chance to catch a new photo of someone who not only can't even act, but a man who couldn't even be a decent husband.

Take away everything but RJ's admission of breaking the wine bottle, and we still have a deranged act of emotion. To think that act had nothing to do with Natalie's death is irresponsible. Too bad that's the kind of detective we had on the case.

Fans as crazed as all of them will resort to their own deranged kind of actions. OMG they went crazy when they saw Ginger's post at Rulli's Amazon page. Fran Pucci (who I think is Jocko or Prince or both) showed up right away. Jessica broke out again (who I think is Bixby) and lo and behold, we have Miss Sunny making up more of her own story. There's no denying any of their styles.

Jocko and Sunny have shown how deranged they are, and Jessica only shows that she's willing to fight a losing battle all the way. I think Jessica might deserve better company but she's as blind as the rest of them.

Guess I just needed to get this off my chest being I'm being accused of being where I haven't been. Sorry, Sunny, you aren't worth my time, and just because someone else has observations about you, doesn't mean they are stalking you either. Mostly, we all just sit and watch and correct your fantasies, not for you, but for Natalie. It's because of people like you that justice wasn't served in the first place. I think you underestimate Rulli with all of your empty insults to her. She already got the unpublishable book published, and you are way outnumbered. I sit with satisfaction as I wait for what's next. You have no clue, you fool.

Jay, you certainly said it! I've read horrible posts about Natalie on that group for years so this Sandy person fits right in. She blamed Natalie for her own death which should please a member from England quite a bit. That member despises Natalie Wood and her sister Lana. She despises any woman except Stephanie Powers.
I recall Sandy saying that she wasn't a fan of RJ's and had not read his book either. Then she met up with Bixby on Amazon or is it Hart on here? Oh I just can't keep track of all their screen names! Whatever! Now she is a great fan who wants pictures of his legs! Well that certainly takes the biscuit, wouldn't you say? Sandy despises Dennis Davern because Sandy has admitted that her own father was a heavy drinker and she sees her own family faults in the Davern of years ago.
I assume RJ's drinking is not a factor in any of this? When the truth slaps them across their many faces they ignore it and talk once more, in circles.
AAB

Alice,

They think sane people like us resort to their measures, using all kinds of screennames, etc. I am Jay. I was Jay at the RJGroup, I am Jay here. I post as only Jay, and I don't have an amazon account. I'm sorry they thought you or your husband was me. I guess they think any person making sense has to be rolled up into one...Goodbye Natalie is already available for preorder in paperback. A book that didn't do well doesn't go paperback.

I saw that Sunnflower is still calling you me, and claims your eyes are brown. Mine are hazel. I'm finding myself amused by them at this point. They won't come here to an open forum. They need Rulli. They know her book is so credible that that's where they must try to fight their battles, but they are only making fools of themselves. If Rulli's book is such a waste, what are they doing there? Bottomline, they KNOW the impact Goodbye Natalie has and they are scared to death of where it still has to go. The man they idolize is now exposed, and the media is catching on.

Jay and Alice, I follow this never-ending saga too. I check in on Rulli's blog, Amazon comments (most of them) and I have an email alert going for any new news about Natalie Wood. I care about Natalie. I agree with you, Jay, that it's people the likes of the RJ fans who hinder this case too. It amazes me how many people can be bubbleheads.

I don't know these people, I've never been a group member and I basically only post here. There has been no activity here for a long time, so I follwed it to Amazon but for "read only" purposes, and I think those people in question have hurt any chance of anyone taking them seriously even for a New York minute. I agree, they have become laughable.

It's such a shame that we all have to wait and wait for things to be done about this case, but I have no doubt that something will come about. How can an investigation like this one go untouched? That is what troubles me, and that is what I posted for my comment at the petition. The police are the culprits, the police are to blame for all of this nonsense. By not doing their jobs, they leave this kind of trouble behind.

I think it's disgusting the way Rulli is being used. Not one of them have the guts to approach her at her blog. It's clear who the upstanding person is. I hope there is some sort of professional justice for Natalie soon. I will never give up hope, but I hate waiting. As for the media, guess they needed to get Tiger Woods out of the way first, for in my opinion, the Natalie story is 10 times more fascinating.

My husband has said the same thing! Not one of these people have gone to Marti Rulli's blog and spoken to her there. They have used every excuse there is but the truth is they are afraid of the truth. I'm sure when they read these posts they will have some nasty comments to make but the fact is, Marti Rulli has not backed down to anyone or anything and that includes all the obstacles and road blocks that were set up against her and her book.
AAB

You are wrong Malice in Wonderland, have you ever been to Rulli's blog? There were 3 posters who went up against Rulli, when Rulli was proved wrong and put in a corner she asked them to leave and never come back, that's your idol, your superior LOL. Liars figure, figures don't lie. LOLOLOLOL

Hey Jockwad aint you worried about being stalked anymore?

Jerko,
Those people did not respectfully disagree with Rulli and in fact one was anonymous. They started right in just like you with the name calling and hate like 12 year old children. One of them was Joanne from the RJ group. Don't play your sick demented games on me or my husband. You might get away with your lies and disgusting behavior with those morons from the RJ group but you won't with us. Fly away little Tinkerbell!
Sign any petitions lately you worthless little crumb?
LOLOLOLOL up your nose and take your team of Depends wearing slime balls with you!

Krispy,
That is typical Jerko behavior. It and its team stalk everyone and use a hundred different screen names so they automatically think everyone does the same thing.
AAB

I can't believe I have to join this site again just to clarify misunderstandings but here I am, and I really hate it because I never wanted to set foot here again.
I am so sorry Jay if you were wrongly accused. I have asked Sunflower to just forget about arguing on here or on Amazon. Yes she is now a member of our RJ group, she has strong feelings about RJ being innocent, however we truely do not want to stir trouble with anyone, so I doubt she will continue....she can now see how pointless it all is.
I have returned as a moderator because C** asked me repeatedly to help her out.....but I have limited power, I can not re-instate anyone without her approval, and all decisions are done together. It was the only way I would agree to it.
I cannot control "Jocko" because he is not on our RJ group. I have no idea who he is, and I wish I did, but all I know about him is that he believes RJ is innocent. He does not trust me or anyone. I have said repeatedly how I feel about this LOLOLOLing from him or anyone else. Surely you have figured out it is not my style to get nasty and call anyone bad names, and anyone who knows me knows how strongly I feel about that! Jay you of all people would know that after being in our group that time.
Actually I am getting very mistrusting myself. I have recently been hurt very much by someone on this board who "pretended" to befriend me, and I am still trying to process what they were actually trying to achieve by that and what their real motives were. It totally baffles me.
Jay I thought we reached a point of mutual respect if not agreement...and believe me I am very relieved to know you are NOT that provocative person on Amazon. I think the whole discussion on Amazon is beyond sane. Nearly 500 messages! I doubt anyone is reading those posts anymore......but no-one can leave without having the last word. A few decent people on both sides have tried to talk sense and plead with them to end it....but they are ignored. I don't know what more I can do to put an end to this endless cycle of hate between us.....No-one from our RJ group is on there now. I have truely done all in my power.
Jocko I can tell you obviously mean well....but someone has to be the one to stop...,please consider whether it is better to just let it go. No-one is going to change their minds unfortunately.

That is all well and good Hartbeat but why do you insist on always slamming the supporters of GNGS? Your Sandy Lynn has said some truly horrid things to people and when she gets a taste of her own medicine back she is right and they are wrong? Her actions you condone because she is in support of Robert Wagner? The hairdresser who originally posted is a human being! We all are. She has been treated horribly on there from Sunnfllower and Jocko who are, or were a tag team. The same holds true for Rulli and Davern. Calling them horrible filthy names serves what purpose? It just reminds previous group members of your friend J****e's dissing Lana Wood as she has for years on your group. Don't deny any of this. The proof is in the comments on there and also in the posts on here. You, who I assume is Bixbygirl know this. You have read every post and every comment that has ever had RJ's initials attached to it.
People are accused of being all these other people and they are threatened as you were last year, lied to and lied about.
I am no one but the name I have here. My husband has a name here and one on Amazon just as you do. You know exactly who he is. You and he have always disagreed but you have always been respectful to each other until this person of a thousand screen names Jocko and Sunnfllower came along. We were both accused of being this Jay person. Everyone was being accused of being someone else by you and your friends. How would that make you feel? Would you have taken it lightly? I don't think so.
I will tell you this before finishing up this response, be very careful of new found friends. They just might be old nemesis's wrapped in friendly flags.
AAB

I cannot control every word people say....all I can do is encourage people to stick to the facts and NOT get nasty. No-one from the RJ group started that endless thread under Gingers review. It was an outsider. Sunflower was originally descended on after she wrote her review, or have you forgotten?
Personally I would prefer if when people put up a review they were left alone. I really do!!! From either side!
It is true, that Sunflower has gotten really mad and said some things I personally would never say, but honestly she was told some really horrid things first....spawn of Satan, etc. She listed them all once, and they were much worse than anything she ever said back. I know she is blunt but she is just fed up to the teeth with having her email addy put up on Amazon....3 times it was put up! No wonder she see's red! I doubt she will comment any more, she has had enough.
Frankly I am sick and tired of all the comments about our group on Amazon, IMDb and the death board. It is like we sneeze and its reported somewhere.
I appreciate the warning....I am very trusting, it is my downfall I know.
I just want our little group to be left in peace. Its just for fans - if you are not, why are you there? I am so sick of the games....I can understand completely when someone uses a different screen name on a site...we all do it. But the lengths people will go to just to decieve goes far beyond wanting anonymity , it is downright sickening.
Can't everyone just stop all the hatred. Having a differing opinion is not a reason to hate anyone.
J.

I heartily agree with most everything you said J. but I must take issue with a few others. I believe I was the one that called Sunn something to the effect of spawn of Satan. I take full responsibility for that. Why? Because she called me SATAN first. It is right on this board. That is because of the screen name which of course is Natasha and Courtney spelled backward and I copied the idea from Doowanal and admitted to it ages ago. She didn't seem to realize that although others did right away. The posts are here. They can be verified.
As for your group, you may believe this or not. It does not matter to me in the least but the people you have trusted for years are the real spies and back stabbers on there. I won't tell you how long we have been members but it has been years. I believe it has been longer than your membership or at the least before you became a moderator the previous time but I won't pinpoint the year. That would certainly give us away. We are surprised we weren't evicted ages ago when my sister in law was evicted. We have not posted in years. That seems to be the criteria for eviction. That and anything remotely negative toward RJ. If you don't post you are considered a lurker or if you have the audacity to remark that you didn't care for the chemistry between RJ and Debbie Reynolds or Audrey Hepburn or heaven forbid Stefanie Powers but you loved him with everyone else you are in mortal sin and must be a Spy! Throw people off for no reason other that piddily assumptions. That is absurd.
I'm sure Jocko will come in with something like he did on Amazon referencing that I am full of (I will leave the obsenity to him as he is the master of smut talk)and you are on to me but that is fine. I take people like him with a grain of salt.
We agree to disagree and that is fine. Let us leave it at that but if Sunn or anyone else wants to play their games and need a mate I tell you right up front, I for one will never back away.

Hartbeat,
You and I have always gotten along until recently. We agree to disagree but my wife is right. I never wanted to post again on this site much as you didn't but I feel I must because of this comment in your post; "Jocko I can tell you obviously mean well....but someone has to be the one to stop...,please consider whether it is better to just let it go. No-one is going to change their minds unfortunately."
How can you say this person means well when he is vicious? He has called people filthy names, accused people of being someone they are not and posts the most disrespetful things not only about Natalie Wood and her family but about people in general just to shine the armor of Robert Wagner? He is disgusting! He is a bully hiding behind a computer screen.
This is what I do not understand. How can a person such as yourself, who is always so level headed and decent take up the cause of someone like him? I don't care who he supports. He could whole heartedly support Marti Rulli but if he supported her in the same light that he has taken up the RJ cause I would feel the same way.
I am certainly guilty of name calling too but only when provoked by your friend Sunn and her dream team of a thousand screen names.
I am sure the screen name of a thousand will come roaring through here doing its Wyatt Earp impression of accusations and more blithering idiocy but I couldn't care less. I said what I had to say and that is it.

Seeing you are so honest with me Yentrucasatan, I will admit I am Bixby girl on Amazon too. I only used it because I had said I had "left" on here...and I knew i would be criticised for being back. Just because I was polite to Jocko, does not mean we are on the same group....I am polite to everyone. I do not agree with the tone or words Jocko uses a lot of the time. I have discouraged that in our group.
However he does believe RJ is innocent, and so do I, he brings up some points I do agree with - when he just uses "facts". The comment you refered to is my way of trying to appeal to him. If he choses to ignore me, what can I do? You all ignore me as well.
When Jocko asked me to email him, I ignored it for 2 days, till I could no longer stand the curiosity. But he just gave me a warning about trusting people, and then disolved his email. So I was non the wiser. He is very mysterious and does not trust me either.
My fight is not with Jocko.....it is not with anyone. I don't want to continue all this argueing. I had a specific point I wanted to make on Amazon, I made it, and I left. I am not a troll. I just pop in with a point now and then, like many others on here do. Don't I have just as much right to do that as you all do?

J., our posts seem to have crossed. Please see my previous response to you.
I knew you were Bixby as I know you knew Yen...and Moviemusic... are one and the same. Unlike other people I don't think we need a thousand screen names to make our point. That is why I was so upset when I was called "Jay" and the snide remarks started from Sunn and escalated. Where did she get the "Jay" reference from? "Jay" has been gone from the group for ages before Sunn was let in. Without pointing fingers or making assumptions, I think it is obvious where she got it from. That is what upset me the most.

Hartbeat as I have stated earlier, you are the only person on the other side of this issue who knows how to communicate with civility, respect and intelligence. You are to be commended. How the other two (sunnfllower and jocko/princecharming/grayhair) believe that their hideous loling, foul and vulgar language, and insults, will persuade others to their point of view is beyond me. As Yentro points out, if jocko/princecharming/grayhair suddenly flipped to the other side, it would be difficult to agree with him because he is so vulgar, boorish and hostile that it is repulsive. (By the way, my analysis of jocko/princecharming/grayhair is that he does not really believe that RJ is innocent, rather he appears to be a chauvinist who thinks Natalie got what she deserved because she refused to be a submissive housewife, and Natalie's many relationships with men during the time she was single probably eats away at him as well.)

You are correct when you state that all of this endless bickering and arguing will get nowhere because no one is going to change anyone else's mind. This is the reason that I support the opening of a proper professional investigation into this case. If you really believe that Mr. Wagner is innocent then you should be in favor of that as well.

I have a few remarks to correct on here, which are blatant lies as usual, & then this will seriously be my last communication with all of you. I never called Yen "Satan". I said if that was his surname he might want to change it. FYI - when you post a screen name with Satan in it, prepare yourself that people might think that way. I have never called anyone "filthy" or "vile" names or laughed at Natalie drowning. I have never disrespected or posted anything "filthy" or otherwise to Ginger Sugar Blymyer. She has never posted anything derogatory to me. I have no other screen names. Sunnfllower is the only one I have used on 2 sites - Amazon & here. The only factor I've done in retaliation of your viciously hateful & abominably insulting gibberish is to liken you all to different adjectives of crazy because that's what you sound like. It's you people on here that have 3 & 4 screen names apiece & you stalk Amazon & troll the internet daily.

I concede from your posts then that it's ok for you people to say I am a spawn of Satan, made from Satan's rib, want to puke in my face, spit til I'm covered with saliva, have no heart, don't deserve to be alive, God will condemn me to Hell for not believing GNGS, am repulsive, demented, demoralized, & that's just last week. Your rants & ugly insults do fall under filthy & vile. And let's not leave out the poster that stated Natalie died for our sins & there hasn't been a miracle since. These are indeed the kinds of posts that when anyone ambles over to Amazon to read reviews on your bible, they would indeed think you were all mental ward contenders.

Hartbeat, I know you mean well, but I can defend myself. I don't know anyone but you that is capable of sugar coating your posts to these terribly insane people. I read my posts on here & there is nothing that is "filthy" or that is out of line. It is all very sensible & only shows my belief in the innocence of a man that ill obsessors have played judge & jury to & already convicted. I have never called Natalie Wood any vile name or showed her any disrespect whatsoever. I said she was intoxicated that night which is the truth. No disrespect intended, only stating facts. When you're drunk at sea & cannot swim, your boatmates are dead drunk, frequent accidental drownings do occur. This is a fact. It is you people that have called me such filthy & vile names & posted such obnoxious sh*t that you should all be ashamed & embarassed. That kind of nonsensical verbal abuse is not going to help sell that book. You have no defense for this except to attack someone with more lies & lurk at Amazon waiting for more negative reviews & new people to attack. Why is it you think you have the right to believe RJ a murderer & I have no right to believe he's not?

You all remind me of the KKK. Even when I quit posting, your ridiculous venom of lies on my behalf continue. It is a free country & I will continue to post on RJ's innocence anywhere I wish, anytime I wish. And there's nothing you can do about it. I will never communicate with any of you again no matter how many more lies you spew about my character or no matter how you threaten me or stalk me or post my email or insult me or any of the other creepy lengths you people feel you must hit bottom on just to abuse others that do not share your viewpoint on a book. You act like a bunch of bullies & are most certainly not helping Marti Rulli's sales for that book with your vicious & crazy sounding banter believe me. Writing things like you want to spit & puke on my face are not ever going to help Marti Rulli's book sales. You need to act sane & learn to respect others that do not share your viewpoint. There are millions more people in the world that believe it was an accident than the miniscule corner you people crouch in & always in attack mode.

Do unto others as you expect them to do unto you. Most of you never seemed to have learned that as children & I pity you vastly for your life messes & whatever isn't right in your heads that makes you act & say the ignoble abusing comments you post. Time to let the chips fall as they may. There's nothing more you people can do. Get on with your lives or try to find a life & let it go. This woman you worship & obsess over is long gone & nothing can bring her back. Your hatred for an innocent man will not bring her back. Writing lies about me & calling me filthy names & threatening me will not bring her back. It's over. Done. Finished. Life on this wonderful Earth is too short to waste time like this. I realized yesterday that Yen is mmm. But who the f*ck cares who you are. Just a twisted & horribly vengeful man. Au revoir.

After reading your response, there really is nothing more to say. The post, your choice of words and phrases, your asterisk peppered profanities and tale twisting speak volumes.

Sunnflower! How dare you throw bible verse at my husband and in the same post where you spew your filth and lies and call him disgusting names! He may be a gentleman and not tell you this but I will. If Jerko can sound off to people so can I! You can go and **** yourself and take your Tinkerbell Jerko with you! How is that for an asterisk exclamation?
You are one twisted viper. That is correct! I said VIPER! Split tongue VIPER!
Hartbeat, you and my husband and other people on here have always gotten along no matter how you felt but if this is your idea of a friend you can have her! She is NUTS! Yes, I am furious. She is a liar and a trouble maker and YES, she makes me want to PUKE! My husband came to your defense and that other RJ member about the DVDs months ago. He did not have to. He could have let you and her get torn to pieces. He did not! This is what he meant when he told you that you take up the defense for people just because they support RJ no matter how vile they are.
She has slapped you in the face with her sugar coated comment. I won't sugar coat anything. Sunnflower you are a *****, an evil *****! Having trouble deciphering the 5 asterisks? Think of a kennel and there you are!

Hartbeat, Jocko is not "mysterious" in the least. The transparency is obvious. It always has been.

Once again my husband is a gentleman and he won't say this to you but I will. You must have been the one who informed Sunnflower that he was "Jay". Where else would she get that from? Now, the clouds open up for her and she realized Moviemusicman and he are one and the same? Oh really? Is that why she kept calling him Jay on Amazon and referred to his eyes as brown like "sh*t"? Such wonderful language coming from a God fearing Christian!
Great friends you keep. You can come back at me with anything you choose. I don't care. No one lies about my man and I sit back and let it happen.

You are one piece of work Malice. I will respond to you one time because you are accusing Hartbeat of something she is not responsible for. I'm the one that said Jay was mmm, nobody else. So I got some of you people's multiple screen names wrong, so what? What's that got to do with Hartbeat? And yes, I said the word sh*t & the f word at the end. Such vulgarity. You people would make a preacher cuss. Just leave Hartbeat out of it. This is why I don't know how anyone can talk nice to insane freaks, what I meant by the sugar coating. It certainly was not meant as any disrespect against Hartbeat, who is a very lovely person & has never done any harm to anyone. Be very glad you have a husband Alice. Nobody else would want you. Your vulgarity & unladylike demeanor is repulsive & I'll bet you're ugly as sin too. Your face could stop a clock you old hag.

Hartbeat has done nothing except be nice to you. If you want to spew your venom at someone, you do it with me you coward & leave Hartbeat out of it. And your husband deserves worst as he won't leave me alone. But this was your last shot & my last response on this cuckoo's nest. Put your strait jacket back on Alice. I'm embarassed for you & hope the evil queen was barren. Somebody should lock you in a closet & throw away the key. If you or your husband insult people, don't be surprised when you get insulted back.

LMAO Oh Sunnflower there you go acting all 12 year old girl again! You are ugly, face that could stop a clock bla bla bla! Is you true idol Regan MacNeil? You act just like her? Is your head doing any 360s lately?
You are full of sh*t! You got the "Jay" crap from Hartbeat. Now go **** yourself. So how do you like the profane retaliation Miss RJ List group member?
I hope they are proud to have such a deranged fool on their group! Now let me scrape you off the bottom of my shoe and be done with IT!

I am a little shocked to say the least, but all I can say is to please look at the "hurt" behind the words.
This is exactly why the internet can be so dangerous. One comment leads to another and as soon as civility is gone, all we can think about are our own feelings.
You have seen on this very board that when people spoke to Sunflower in a civil way, she responded in exactly the same way. For a time things were relatively polite. It all got out of hand with the comments on Amazon.
Can you all see why I never give into the temptation to respond like for like.
I will admit for a while I thought Yen was Jay too, it was his references to knowing me....both of you guys could have said the same thing! Why is this misunderstanding which is so easily cleared up, such a problem. You both have a passionate stand on GNGS.
I will ask you to please try and put yourselves in the shoes of the other person. I know thats really hard, but when people feel attacked and hurt they lash out. On both sides!!!
Could every sane person here just try and avoid going down that road, and listen to what the person is actually trying to communicate?
My favourite mantra is "stick to the facts".....so much of this could be avoided when we just do that. A lot has been said because of anger....some of you are better at resisting it than others.
Now that all that has gotten off people's chests, can't we all just calm down and agree to disagree again?

So my husband is all these filthy words that your friend Sandy has called him and I'm supposed to sit back and let that evil ***** get away with it? Not on your life! She wants war, she got it!
She is a condescending nasty ***** and I have taken her lies and twisted stories long enough!
You stick by her because she despises Dennis Davern because he was an alcoholic just like her Father. She admitted that. You stick by her because she disses Marti Riulli every chance she gets. Tell me something. This question is for EVERYONE! What has Marti Rull or Dennis Davern ever done to any one of us? They wrote a book. They are not all over the sites, infiltrating groups and calling people filthy names and telling lies about them.
They wrote a ****ing book! It is what Dennis saw. It is his take on the death of Natalie Wood. Dennis was drunk? OK fine. What about RJ? He was sober? He was drunk too! He was plastered! He was in charge of that boat. HIM! Not Dennis! That is a fact! That was the law in 1981! The person who held the certificate was the person in charge! He was the ONLY one responsible. Did he have anything to do with Natalie's death? I don't know, I was not there but neither were either of you. I make my own judgements from what I read just as you do.
My husband won't allow me to really say what I feel here. He has respect for you so I will leave it at that but I won't back down to that deranged lunatic.

I guess you did not get what I was trying to say....I am trying to "understand" why all the nastiness happened...not defend it. If you feel you have a right to be upset by her words, then why do you not see that she felt exactly the same way about what was said to her.
I know how I felt when I was called a "c**t" and told to slit my wrists, and I felt I did not say anything worthy of that reaction.
Look, non of it can be "unsaid".....so why make war over it. Words said in the heat of the moment are always cruel.
I think your husband is showing a lot of maturity by being able to let this go. Good for him.
I know you love your husband, but things were said on both sides, and words "hurt" on both sides.
These groups tend to bring out the worst in people....they really do. Please, lets "rise above it". What is said on these boards is not a true reflection of the person at all. We have all said things we regret.
Sometimes people need to vent their anger, and sometimes they just go too far once they do....its time now for everyone to just let it go.

Hartbeat,
I won't disrespect you because I was asked not to but I have to say this, Sunnflower has already told you she can handle herself and to stop sugar coating your posts so it is perfectly clear that she does not need or want your help until she gets in so deep she can't get out.
I've never used the word you referenced and never told you, her or anyone to slit their wrists or threatened anyone but Sunnflower and her friend Jerko have basically expressed those thoughts in many of their comments and posts and I know you have been threatened by a former RJ member who is still using other screen names but you just can't seem to see that until it hits you like a ton of bricks.
Sunnflower took up with the person of a thousand screen names and it came back to bite her in the a$$.
I am really trying very hard not to be rude here but this is not the RJ group. You are a moderator there not here.
Where I come from we would just go out in the middle of the desert and fight it out without a referee and the last man or woman standing would be the winner.
AAB

Sunnflower, I will not call you a troll again, but don't accuse anyone of being me. If I post, it will say Jay. You lie (all the information you fabricate about the authors of Goodbye Natalie). You do call people names, and you are extremely insulting to anyone who doesn't think the way you think. You are entitle to your opinions, but when you follow people around who believe differently than you, that's what people won't tolerate. Let people alone to think what they want. Just because you are closed-minded to certain things, you hvae no right to insult others. Now, we're really done.

Hartbeat,
Sorry if by proxy I seemed a bit insulting to you, but that wasn't my intention. We will probably never see eye-to-eye, either, but you do not sicken me, as has Sunnflower in the past.
I have no gripe with you.

Hartbeat,
One more thing, you say to people to "stick to the facts" -- good advice. I just wish those on your side of the fence could follow it. When I was an RJGroup member, facts were scarce. I now do stick to the facts. Why some of you can't see them is beyond my comprehension. But, thank you for those words of wisdom.

Point well taken Alice, I am not a moderator here, and sorry if I sounded like one....its just my philosophy on things, and you can just view it as an opinion as always.
I try to treat people with a measure of respect whether I agree with them or not. I realise Sunnflower does not need me to defend her actions or words.
I only brought up that comment said to me, not because I was accusing anyone...I know it was not you Alice, (or Yen or Jay) or even a regular commenter. I only brought it up because it made me so hurt and angry at the time. I could have made things so much worse by continuing down that line....but I made a conscious decision to NOT do that. Looking back I feel it was the right thing to do for many reasons. Can you imagine how nasty that could have gotten? Having the last word is so over-rated.
Jay, I am glad you don't have a gripe with me personally, or obviously Yen either. I feel the same way. I know we can never agree on this issue, but it does not make us bad people, or stupid people when we disagree. I am sure there are many things we would agree on. This just doesn't happen to be one of them.
I wish you well. I think I have said enough.

I just left a message in Sunnflower's thread about Natalie being responsible for her own death. Tonight, I took the time to read the comments at "Ginger's" post.

Here's what Sunnflower said:
Sunnflower says:
The monster blackballed my future acting jobs & cost me an Oscar. The monster made me smoke alot of pot. The monster kept my favorite bong. The monster made me take valium & quaaludes. The monster made me drink so much the detective called me a filthy drunk. The monster made me change my story 20 times. The monster made me grow a beard.

OK: This is from a "normal" person? (1) Davern didn't want to be an actor, it was a job because he lost the Captain job. He worked while living at Wagner's. Moved away as soon as he could. (2) All we really know is that Davern took a few hits off of Walken's joint Saturday night. Who says Davern smoked pot daily? George Segal smoked pot every trip aboard the Splendour. Is HE a bum?(3) Valiums and quualudes were common faire in Hollywood in the 70's. There's no evidence Davern abused them. (4) The detective should've called it all out: everyone was drunk that night, but it's obvious who was the filthiest drunk. (5) Davern didn't change his story, he only cut it short until the Vanity Fair article. (6) No, according to Goodbye Natalie, the monster wanted Davern to KEEP his beard. (She can't even remember what she reads!)


Right after Sunnflower's post, someone named Bixby wrote this:

Bixbygirl says:
Jocko and Sunnflower how nice to see a little "reality" brought into this discussion. I do appreciate your points even if others don't. I find it so sad that not one them has bothered to watch Final Day again, because they are so afraid that what I have been saying is right. They just blindly argue about it from memory....they still drone on about it being edited...yet refuse to watch it to check. They are too afraid to actually "see" Dennis's seamless description of what he witnessed, because it is not what he said in Vanity Fair. They cannot see that both accounts totally contradict one another because they refuse to watch Dennis actually say it. Classic denial.

OK, what a blind Wagner fan this has got to be! There's no classic denial. I just watched Final Day. It's Davern's same story that I saw years before in another TV show (I think it was A Current Affair). Davern always covered up the half hour ... there was always the "missing half hour" -- it's absurd to think he needed to save his "reputation" -- he had nothing to lose, but he protected Wagner, maybe for the daughters, maybe because he wasn't ready, but all he says is that after the bottle smashing, he met up with RJ about a half hour later and RJ said Natalie was missing. That's EXACTLY what happened, minus the half hour Davern DID know about but kept quiet about -- until Vanity Fair. Davern already told Rulli in the early 90's about the fioght and he also told Lana, so how could it be that he fabricated it only after the documentary? Because he never talked about that half hour PUBLICLY before Vanity Fair doesn't make it untrue. Maybe he was already contracted with Vanity Fair for the exclusive when the documentary was being made. It's absurd to say these are two different stories. One is short, and one is longer...that's the ONLY difference. One has more details. It's not like Davern told a whole different story, he just shortened it in the documentary.

But none of that is my point. Aren't these the kind of comments people talk with their own kind about? Why would you Wagner fans bring this stuff our way? Who do you think you will convert here? You look for any crumb of defense for a man who refused to search for his wife, and you seek sympathy from us after making your own lazy beds? Do some real research. How irresponsible to say Goodbye Natalie must be a lie because it contains more details than a 10 year old documentary. DUH: wouldn't you save your truth for your own book? Instead of looking for Davern to be a liar, why don't you all talk about the huge lies Wagner has told through the years. He said in 1985 that the bottle smashing never happened, but in his book he claimed it did happen. Hmmmm? Well, he must be lying because he saved truth for years later, right? Open your eyes, or at least keep your fantasies away from us. This is getting way too old. Let us believe our better senses, and take your senses to people who agree with you. Wouldn't that work out better?

I would post this at Amazon but I do not have an account there either. I bought my gopies of Goodbye Natalie at a book store, and I've told evryone about it.

I just spent HOURS looking through all those comments at Ginger's review. OMG, the Wagner fans accuse the Natalie fans of looking like conspiracy nuts (Bixby) and that we are afraid when they come along and strike a nerve. Newsflash: NONE of what any of you Wagner fans say affects my nerves.

Here's something Sunnflower said:

Yes, it is pretty stupid to sign a petition anonymously. Where's the press now? GNGS has reached the end of its rope. You're a moron to think the Sheriff's office would ever reopen the Wood case based on an alcoholic's lies & a bunch of people too afraid to write their names down on a silly petition. Time to burn your books.

OK: So Sunnflower doesn't resort to name-calling? I won't be burning my book. Read the comments at that petition. Everyone knows how Natalie died, and if you think the Sheriff's Dept. will be able to let this go, you are mistaken. You are underestimating not only a book, but the drive of many people who will not tolerate nothing coming of the truth and of this petition. Things don't happen overnight, Sunnflower. Give this a few more nights, and then come back and see us. I have every drop of faith that truth will make a difference in this case. I just read Alex King's (the detective) review, and Jocko is there accusing HIM of being a fraud.

Who is incredibly obsessed? I would say you RJ fans are the "crazed" ones. Davern saw what happened and you hate him for it. Why? Whose nerves are really struck?

Here's another insult to Rulli: (from Sunnflower, posted at Ginger's review:

I had to laugh at the letter Rulli posted from RJ to Davern. How desperate can an author get to try & raise her pathetic book sales? LOL

OK: we have a juvenile LOL. Apparently, Sunnflower checks out Rulli's blog. She doesn't have the guts to leave this kind of message st the blog, yet posts it at Amazon! It's clear that it's because of people like Sunnflower trying to claim that Wagner wasn't close to Dennis, that Rulli wanted to show that even early on in Davern's employment, they LIKED Davern. Does anyone here really think Rulli posted that letter in desperation to sell books? It's obviously posted to make a point to hardheads who fabricate their own stories, like Sunnflower. Seriously, anyone really have a problem with that letter? I've seen Goodbye Natalie (at Amazon rankings) higher than High on Arrival at times, and even higher than But I Trusted You at Truw Crime (perfect category for this book). It has had consistent sales, so how can Sunnflower lie about figures that are right there in front of us for months? Every fall book put out has faltered in sales, but Goodbye Natalie seems to sell every week! This woman is SICK!

As for the Wagner letter, aren't Wagner fans drooling over seeing how Wagner crossed his t's? (sorry, couldn't stop myslef. done for the night now).

Sorry, one last sane post for the night (found at Ginger's review from

Vincent M. DeLuca says:
Sunflower you teach best what you most need to learn. If Natalie's death is all Dennis Davern's fault as you have spewed all over the Internet, did you ever ask yourself why Mr. Wagner has never blamed Dennis for Natalie's death? Why? Did you ever think about this question? Think before you spew. The only reason people get lost in thought is because it is unfamiliar territory.

Here is what I do not understand: Why is it that people like "sunnfflllower" feel the need to ridicule the petition? If they are so convinced that Wagner is innocent, if they really, truly believe that is the truth, then how would simply reopening this case for a full and thorough investigation this time, accomplish anything other than to vindicate the truth according to them? If I really believed that Wagner was innocent and Natalie's death was just a tragic accident, I would want the authorities to look into all of the evidence this time, which should exonerate Wagner, correct? And wouldn't such an investigation stop all this endless arguing, bickering and deeply passionate controversy, and bring closure to this case once and for all? Why? I have thought about this question a great deal, and the only reason I can come up with is that they are afraid of what a professional investigation will uncover. This, in and of itself, speaks volumes. As a matter of fact, if I was Wagner and I was totally innocent, wouldn't I want to know what "really" happened to my wife? But, RJ seems to be content to keep it a mystery that has continued to fuel a passionate debate 28 years running. This, also speaks volumes.

I totally agree about the petition. These Wagner fans ridicule it, they degrade Natalie, and they say cruel things about two authors who had every right to put out their story, and the way I see it, Rulli has as much of a personal story in this tragedy as much as those directly involved. An eyewitness involved her, and she did a tremendous amount of work for what she believes in. If Wagner comes out of this looking like he does, it's not Rulli's fault: it's what she discovered. Discovery. It's the key word here. Rulli seems to plead in her book for the professionals to take over. How can anyone condemn her for that?
I seen Hartbeat say that Rulli tugs at emotions. That's crap...I don't think I've ever read more straightforward writing. There's nothing flowery and pumped up in this book, in fact I got upset when there were openings for Rulli to really SAY SOMETHING, and she took the high road instead, as she does at her blog. As for Davern, I think he was just a mixed-up man with a teenager-like brain. That's how he comes across to me. Not a bad person, just a side show to what really happened. I believe the authorities eventually will be forced to look at this case. Sunnflower ridicules what she is afraid of. I don't think we are afraid of anything. We understand the truth.

Hartbeat,
Thank you. I apologize if I was rude in any way but when people accuse me of something I might get angry. When they accuse my husband I get livid. As you can clearly see by Daisy's well researched homework my husband and I are not alone in thinking your friend Sunnfllower is as much the cause of the problems between the two sides as the group member who threatened you last year. Daisy quoted exactly. Daisy did not paraphrase or make up stories as Sunnfllower has done.
This is what I think many people speak of when they ask you and other members of your group why you would take up with someone who brings such negative energy and attention to a group.
I don't know if anyone else saw a thread started on here last night threatening people. It was from an unknown screen name and log in and it was absolutely horrible. It sounded very much like past comments and posts from a resident lunatic on this board and also Amazon but it went one step further and crossed the line with blatant threats. I am sure the owner of this site saw it and the person who posted it and the thread are both gone from the Network but I promise it was here. Is this the type of people you want taking up the cause for RJ? I hope not.
AAB

PLEASE, ANYONE NEW COMING HERE: SIGN THE PETITION FOR JUSTICE FOR NATALIE. She deserves this case reevaluated. The investigation into her death is a crime itself.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/natalie-wood.html

I understand the anger...I truely do....but this is why I left Amazon ages ago...and why I do not want to continue debating things on here. I do realise nothing I say or anyone else will convince you.
If the petition gets re-opened, I think it will force Christopher Walken to confirm or deny whether he and RJ continued arguing on the deck after the bottle incident as RJ said and after Natalie went to her cabin. I have noticed no "closeness" between RJ or Walken over the years, and if this was a blatant lie, I am sure Walken would have spoken out by now and set the record straight. That arguement if it is true, shows RJ as usual takes his anger out on the man. So yes there was an arguement, but it was with Walken. It calmed down....Walken went to bed. RJ and Dennis sat drinking and then he checked on Natalie.
RJ speaks in his book of how bad he felt because he was not "there" when Natalie was in peril. He speaks with frustration that he did not hear anything...(page 265 of his book) it is what they all said to the detectives.
Did Dennis put up the loud music to drown out the RJ/Walken arguement? Before you mention the long wait to call the coast guard...I think he was too drunk to think straight. I have found out that when a person is very drunk their perception of time can get right out of wak. They repeat their actions....oh why should I bother with all this again.
Yes a re-opening of the case will answer all this, but it will also very unlikely change anything. Its one word against another. It is also so unlikely because California is so broke they will be loave to open a case without a sure outcome. At RJ's age this would be a terrible ordeal....it would make him re-live the worst night of his life...and it would be horrific for his daughters.
I think the best case scenario would be if Walken spoke up.
That is what I hope happens!!!
Now that is my view. Sorry if it iritates you. I don't really wish to argue with anyone here. I can see this always leads to anger and resentment. Things got heated enough on Amazon...I wish no more of that.

I agree that Walken is irresponsible in this case to never have offered a concrete public statement. I, however, don't think he is protecting anyone but himself. That he hasn't come forward to refute Davern's story tells me a whole different thing. I think Wagner and Walken want away from the truth as far as they can get, but no matter their ages, truth will prevail. If this devastates Natalie's daughters, no one is to blame for that but Wagner. I sure would want the truth about my mother's mysterious death. But, I'm not here to argue that point with you Hartbeat, just to show they other way of thinking about it. There are two sides to this ageless story, and I like the side I am on. I like justice for one and for all.

*Yes a re-opening of the case will answer all this, but it will also very unlikely change anything. Its one word against another. It is also so unlikely because California is so broke they will be loave to open a case without a sure outcome. At RJ's age this would be a terrible ordeal....it would make him re-live the worst night of his life...and it would be horrific for his daughters*.

Hartbeat, if you agree that a re-opening of the case will answer all of this ongoing mystery and controversy, I cannot understand why you say it will not change anything. It will change EVERYTHING. The undeniable, unconverted, unspeculated upon TRUTH will change every thing. Either your beliefs will be confirmed, or they will be conclusively disproved. No one will have anything left to argue about. Mr. Wagner either will get this lingering cloud over his head removed, or it will finally rain down on him.

As for his advanced age, I can only point to the 90 year old John Demjanjuk, who was removed from his home in a wheelchair and brought to the airport by ambulance to be deported to face trial in Germany. One does not outlive justice.

With respect to both you gentlemen, I saw no evidence in GNGS that would stand in a court as anything but assumption and the word of Davern against RJ. If RJ did go to the deck and continue the fight with Walken, did he also go afterwards and fight with Natalie? Was he then fighting with people all over the boat?
Funny how Davern does not mention the fight between Walken and RJ. However Walken in his only account of that night in Playboy 1992 "does" put himself on the deck with RJ and Dennis after Natalie left. He "omits" the fight though. Walken may not have wanted to reveal what was said in that fight. He was a married man, and the whole incident "over Natalie" may have embarrassed him.
If the forensic's were that indisputable, Nugochi would have pushed it far more than he did.
I do not see a strong case here...Michael asked whether I would prefer the truth....of course I would! But I think only Natalie knows. No investigation will conclusively get the truth based on the information available.
However, if it does happen, I am not afraid of what is found out. I will simply have to accept it.

You are correct, a book is not evidence that is admissible in court. But eyewitness testimony is. Convictions can be based on witness testimony and circumstantial evidence. Direct evidence is not required.

Respectfully, you do not know what an investigation will uncover or what information is available. And you do not know what Walken or Wagner would say, now, under proper questioning. Hartbeat you seem to be more comfortable with speculation and conjecture than wanting to know the real truth. The point of a real investigation this time would be to dispense with all of the "funny he did not say" this or that or "Walken may not have" "he may have been embarrassed" "Noguchi would have" etc etc etc. and get directly to the truth.

Chris Walken has given interviews over the years. In one he said that he was there when RJ realized that Natalie was missing. In another he stated that he was in bed. So which one is it?
In the Lambert biography on Natalie, RJ was openly hostile to Walken but in his own memoir Pieces of My Heat, RJ referred to Chris Walken as a "gentleman". Once again, which is it?
How can Chris Walken know what happened on the rear deck between Natalie and RJ?
The breaking of the bottle has been confirmed by Wagner. Can Walken tell us if Natalie was there when RJ broke the bottle?
RJ seems confused about this. In Lambert's book which RJ endorsed, she was there but in his own book which was published a few years later, he states she was not.
Zigs and Zags everywhere one looks!

Harbeat, you say "No investigation will conclusively get the truth based on the information available."

I just want to point out that the truth is already available. Some of you do not want to accept it, I understand, but for those of us who choose to accept it, and believe in Davern's polygraph results, we have the truth.

Robert Wagner fought with Natalie, not with Walken. Wagner was with Natalie when she went overboard. He knows what happened and refuses to tell any of us -- fans or not -- what he knows. Common sense tells us Natalie didn't go into a dinghy or into the water by her own choice. The only truth we will never know is how she got into the water, but we do know that Wagner knows.

Maybe he will want to free his conscious before meeting his maker. But, I doubt it. He apparently believes that saying he was responsible for Natalie's death in his own book is confession enough. Think about it. No widower of an accident would ever use the words that he is responsible unless there's more meaning intended.

I understand your point Jay, and respectfully, I beg to differ. People do feel guilt about the tragic death of a loved one even if they are not actually responsible. Haven't you heard of "surviour guilt"? Let me quote RJ's exact words:
"Did I blame myself? If I had been there, I could have done something. But I wasn't there. I didn't see her. The door was closed: I thought she was below decks. I didn't hear "anything". But ultimately, a man is responsible for his loved one, and she was my loved one. Yes I blamed myself. Natalie would have felt the same way had it happened to me. Why wasn't I there? Why wasn't I watching? I would have done anything in the world to make her life better or protect her. ANYTHING. I would have given my life for hers, because that's the way we were."
Jay I have been told by someone who knows someone who witnessed the relationship firsthand every day. This person said RJ and Natalie would talk for hours!!!! They were very big on communication - especially in their second marriage. Years of analisis does that, and both of them had analisis. It is completely uncharacteristic for RJ to give up on this most treasured relationship by resorting to murder. No matter how jealous he was...he would have tried to "talk"...not just once, but often, till they found that special bond again. This is his style....he worshiped her.
At one time Cal had a "questions for RJ" thing on her fan site. You could actually ask him questions and he would reply. Well I asked him about acting and mentioned a movie I liked him in, and I said I tend to like "unusual movies"...deep movies, often ones men liked. I said "The Shawshank Redemption" was one of my favourite movies.
Well he replied that it was a particular favourite of his too.
If you have seen that movie, it is about a man wrongly accused of killing his wife in a fit of jealousy. It does not reveal that he is innocent till near the end of the movie. At one point he is talking to Morgan Freeman after spending 20 years in prison, and says "do you think 20 years is enough for being a failed husband?" or words to that effect.
I think RJ does feel guilt for "failing" to be there for Natalie when she needed him most. It will always haunt him. The way a parent feels guilt when a child dies if they feel being there would have prevented it. So no, I do not think it odd that RJ feels guilt. It is perfectly normal in a tragic death, especially of something that seemed so easy to prevent. Hindsite is a cruel torturer.

RJ said: "If I had been there, I could have done something. But I wasn't there. I didn't see her. The door was closed: I thought she was below decks."

My response to this statement of Wagner's: He WAS there. He was a few feet away. Does he forget that his boat had no "below decks"? The stateroom was 1 step away from the salon, not quite what is considered "below decks" - it was one step down and NEXT to the stateroom.
To not be in the stateroom with Natalie and to present a sentence such as his is exactly another way of eluding truth or trtiny to twist the truth. He's giving off an image that isn't true. Even if he wasn't in the stateroom, if it wasn't the moment she went overboard that she needed help, she sure needed help while IN the ocean, and he decided to not provide that help.
We all know she went missing after a huge episode in the main salon, so her being missing should've been a huge alarm. This is all BS talk from him. He had every opportunity to to try to help her after she was missing, but not only did he he NOT want to thelp, he refused his captain from helping.

RJ Said, "Why wasn't I watching?"
This sounds like a statement that would come from only someone who WAS watching.

RJ said: "I would have given my life for hers, because that's the way we were."

The man would give his life for her, but not make a phone call or turn on lights to help her? Harbeat, can you seriously not see through these statements?

Harbeat, you say you were told by someone who knows of the RJ/Natalie relationship who says RJ and Natalie would talk for hours and they were big on communication - especially in their second marriage.
Well, Dennis Davern says the SAME thing. Davern says their marriage seemed perfect and that he was shocked to see and hear the epsidoe in the stateroom and to hear them arguing. Davern saw a lot of the couple too as they spent most of their spare time on their yacht. Even Davern doesn't deny that this night Natalie died was the hugest fluke he could imagine. Yes, years of analysis can help a couple to learn to communicate, but one night of drunkeness for a jealous man can chage all that in a split second. It happens EVERY DAY.

I agree it is completely uncharacteristic for RJ to give up on a treasured relationship by resorting to murder. But, again, it HAPPENS EVERY DAY! And maybe RJ did try to talk first, but Natalie was so angry she wasn't ready or willing to talk it out. I can't blame Natalie for being so angry after an episode like the bottle smashing. Maybe she even threw something at him first. Maybe RJ did want to talk it out, over and over, because he realized at that point he WOULD have to talk about it over and over, and maybe in his drunken state decided to "fight" instead of "talk" -- they were a human couple, not always in control of emotions, thus why they did seek analysis. Maybe he said to himself, "Talk won't work this time, I went too far." Maybe Maybe Maybe. This is what the investigators should have figured out, not us.

Jay,
This is what always frustrates about Hartbeat and other members of the RJ group. Because RJ said it, it MUST BE TRUE! Because assistant L** A******** told C** something, IT MUST BE TRUE!
This has been going on for years with them. Well before GNGS hit the presses.
RJ would have given his life for Natalie's? Is that why he took up with his current wife within weeks of Natalie's death and he has callously stated life goes on to his current wife's heartless we don't live in the past remark? I won't bother getting into the time lapse, alcohol consumption, argument or anything else. We are all quite aware of all that already.
Mr. and Mrs. Wagner are both actors. Admittedly, bad actors but actors none the less. They can play the fans like a violin and the die hards fall for it every time.
AAB

His statements are very odd. "Why wasn't I there? Why wasn't I watching?" Good questions he raises, but HE DOES NOT ANSWER THEM. Why does he use the term "watching?" If he thought she went to bed, why and what would he have to be "watching" - her sleeping? His use of the particular term "watching" is very significant. Yes, he KNEW she was in the water struggling for her life, but he wasn't "watching." Instead he was drinking, waiting for her to die.

His choice of language that he "would have done anything in the world to make her life better or protect her. ANYTHING. I would have given my life for hers" is also significant and telling. He noticeably does NOT say he would have done anything to have saved her life that night. Yes, prior to that weekend he might have done anything to make her life better or to protect her, but does pulling her out of the water constitute either making her life better or "protecting" her? No, that would be called rescuing her from death. The term protection has a connotation of prevention. It means to shield someone from injury or damage. If you pull someone out of the water, you are not "protecting" them, they are already in the situation. Preventing someone from falling into the water in the first place would be protecting them. Similarly, who would say they were making someone's life "better" by saving them from drowning? And where is his explanation of refusing to turn on the search lights or to call for help for 2 hours and refusing to call the Coast Guard for 2 additional hours? Wouldn't one think that would be something people would like to have an explanation for?

Very, very strange language and psychologically the statements in his book, and also the omissions, are very revealing indeed.

I have lurked here before without posting any comments but after reading the ones from the past couple days I feel like I must. Most of theposting onthis sight appear to be troublemakers looking for arguments. You rake this sunflower person over the coals and make a thread with her name on it and then wonder why that person comes here. She is accused of all sorts of things but all I read is bizarre name calling and terrible profanity directed at her. It makes no sense to me. If you don;'t want certain peoepl coming here then maybe you shoudn't attack that person with horrilbe language and insults. I have read some of her posts and they make sense as I never believed Robt Wagner killed his wife either. What is a spawn of satan? From what I can see her comments are nothing compared to the some of the ones written to her. She jsut defends herself and believes Mr. Wagneer to be innocent. R all people spawns of satan that believe Natalie Wood fell off her boat after drinking and drowned? I think sunflower made some good points actually and I would like to have this poster contact me at the email above. I have some information she might be interested in.

I expect you got nowhere with your disgusting threatening post over the weekend so you are trying your hand at a new tactic.
That is what I expect and that is the information I have for you and no one needs your addy for that one.

Please send an email to dirtydeniselee@yahoo at once. This is no joke.

I am the one who posted this thread for Sunnflower because she was accusing other people of being ME elsewhere on the Internet, and I wasn't going to tolerate it. That consitutes "trolling" and accusing people of being me where I haven't posted, so that's why I headed the thread as such, but I have since said I will call no one any names again and I won't. If you like Sunnflower and her thoughts, I hope she contacts you and you two have a ball together. But don't come here saying that Sunnflower has been anything but the instigator she is, same as you. This isn't the first you've posted here and it will not be the last. It's one thing to have opinions, but Sunnflower goes far beyond and we address her because it won't be tolerated. I saw at Amazon that JOcko keeps calling a poster named GAMPIE, gramps or Grandpa, etc, and Sunnflower started to do the same thing although the poster claims to be far too young to be a grandfather. It's so immature, and so unnecessary, and then these two wonder why they are called names back? Come on, Jocko, you're talking to some intelligent people here. Grow up.

Isn't this "new" person starting to post more and more like Jocko, Vlad, Princecharming and that Troll of all Trolls who was thrown off of the RJ List last year?

[email protected],
Why don't you send Sunnfllower an email? For someone who admits they lurk on here you arent's very quick or you would have remembered that Sandy Lynn forgot to delete her optional e mail on a post and it is still on here. You can also contact here at Amazon. Just look for the comment section on GNGS.
How ridiculous!

Coolbreeze2?
Sounds like mostly Hot Air 2 Me.
Can we all assume that the breeze from last Fall is still upon us?

Its obvious that coolbreeze is jerko/gray/princecharmless/etc...
How can anyone be this stupid?
Does he/she/it honestly think no one would notice?