I'm remodeling my kitchen and I desperately need some advice on undercab lighting. Here's what I think I want from reading posts in this forum and on the kitchen forum where I see your input:

1. Xenon
2. Long cylindrical bulb (since you mentioned they give the best spread of light and you recommended staying away from bi pins)
3. All metal construction (since you mentioned that plastic gets brittle and cracks when changing bulbs)
4. Linear voltage (I want it direct wired to my electrical work, no plug ins)
5. WAC ? (Since you mentioned that they are the easiest bulbs to change.
6. $$..(Not that concerned but I'm no millionaire, however I am willing to spend some money to get a good quality product that I will love)
7. Sizes needed:
2 less than or equal to and no more than 22" wide in length
2 less than or equal to and no more than 13" in length
1 less than or equal to and no more than 28" in length

Other than the above specs, I'm not sure if there are other options I need to take into consideration when looking at buying Xenon undercabinet lighting.

So if you can from the above specs what brand model would you recommend. I ask becasue everytime I try to look at the lighting retailers on line I cannot figure out for the life of me which have the above options. The descriptions seem very cryptic to me. You can't imagine how much I would appreciate some help on this issue.

Thanks

Whoops I forgot to mention these specs:
8. Dimmable fixtures from the wall on off switch (Don't know the technical term for this).

You may not be able to fill every need you listed for a number of reasons but that's not really a problem. Is this already wired for or are you still planning? If it is already wired for how is it wired? This will help me give you the best answer.

Paul

I am assuming the correct response is that this is not already wired for. I am awaiting the electrician to do the electrical work. This is a complete kitchen remodel. Right now I have a gutted empty kitchen. My designer told me how many lights to buy and approximately what size, but that is it. He didn't mention what kind of lights would be better than others.
Marianne

Considering the kitchen is in a gutted state you really can do anything you want for UC lighting. If it is within your budget, a low voltage linear system would be my first choice. Something like Juno Trac 12 or Halo Linea. The reason I asked about the wiring is with the kitchen gutted, the proper wiring can be installed to prepare for the lights.

Light is not so much something that reveals, as it is itself the revelation.
James Turrell

Thanks for the response. I've been calling local lighting places to see if I can get the Juno Trac 12 or the Hamo Linea system. One place that I did get ahold of and was able to speak to over the phone said that those systems are special order and wanted to know if I knew the part numbers. They were trying to push the American Lighting UC lighting that they have in stock. The two systems that you mentioned are track lighting systems right? The two systems that you mentioned..do I need transformers or are the transformers built in? And also are they Xenon. I get confused because one of them says Xenon-Halogen. What is that? I don't want halogen because I definitely don't want to scorch the underside of my new cabinets. Does that just mean you can eithre use a halogen bulb or a xenon bulb in the track? Or, is xenon a type of halogen?
Thanks

I am not familiar with American Lighting but I did request a catalog so I can learn more. I have mentioned before that different areas of the country support different brands. It doesn't necessarily mean one is worse than another. It is not unusual for a lot of these systems to be special order either. Even my best suppliers locally don't stock too much of this stuff.

The two systems I mentioned are track low voltage and use xenon bulbs. They require a transformer and it needs to be remotely located. I am not sure what you are referring to where it says xenon/halogen, maybe if you have a link you can post it here. They are two different types of bulbs. The xenon does still get hot, but not as hot as a halogen.

Paul

I've been looking all over to see if I can purchase the Juno Trac 12 or Halo Linea that you mentioned. I get stumped because no one makes it easy to buy. I know I need 5 tracks of varying lengths but it doeasn't seem that is how this stuff is purchased. I can choose between voltages, it seems like maybe I need a transformer, it also seems like I decide how many lamps to put on the line. I even have to decide what wattage for the bulbs (am I right? the xenon comes in different wattages) How do I figure out exactly what to buy? I thought of calling the manufacturer to help me and then I started thinking maybe this isn't for me a layperson to decide and the electrician should be making these choices?? Is there a way I can do this myself? Thanks again for all your help.

If you give me a layout (kitchen floor plan) and show me where you want the lights, I can make you a list of supplies. I need to know if it is all going to be on one switch or seperate areas.

Paul

I can't uplead the file/document so you can see the layout. Can I e-mail you instead?

Yes you can email it to me pforte@forteelectric.com

Light is not so much something that reveals, as it is itself the revelation.
James Turrell

I'm going to e-mail this to you anyway but I've gotten obsessed trying to upload this file. Just wanted to see if I could do it.

Somehow its missing the cabinet in the lower left hand corner. But there are no lights in that cabinet. Its the fridge and the surrounding pantry cabinet.

Glad you were sucessful, now I need to ask a few more questions. First is I need the width of each cabinet. This is for the undercabinet lights correct? Just want to be sure we are on the same page. Secondly is all the UC lighting going to be on one switch? (it is cheaper that way) Once you give me those two answers I'll make you a list for both Juno and Halo.

Paul

Length of kitchen representing space that pot lights will occupy is 13.25 feet. (Measured from the left wall tothe end of the high hats on the right) Width of the room is 10.75 feet. I'm mentioning this because I want to know about the high hats too. There are 3 rows of 4 lights and the original plan was for 6" cans. I just asked to change that to 4" cans. Do you think this is OK? I will also have a pendant over the sink (ceiling light #13 in this space...I thought this was overkill with the 6" cans but my designer kept insisting it was the right amount of light. He's out of town right now and I told the electrician to change to 4" cans..What do you think. The electrician is supplying the cans?

Undercab lights:
the Bottom wall has 3 runs. The two side cabinets measure 15" wide x 42" high and the one in the middle is 30" wide x 36 " high. The top wall has 2 runs. The two cabinets on either side of the micro hood measure 24" wide x 42" high.

To summarize:
2 - 15" wide cabs
1 - 30" wide cab
2 - 24" wide cabs
all for UC lighting

And what pucks should I buy (same brand as the UC that I go with?) There will be 6 of those.

Thanks so much for all your input.

Hello again

Yes 4" cans should be plenty with so many lights. If you went with 6" cans you could eliminate the three in the middle of the room. As far as pucks go I assume those are for inside glass cabinets? WAC HR86 is my puck of choice. You would have to choose a color they come in 4 colors I believe. You will need a transformer for these also which you can ask about when you buy them. They should be 12 volts and 20 watt bulbs so the transformer has to be 150 watts fro 6 pucks.

For the UC lighting you will need

3 - 4FT Trac 12 Section TL 4 comes in white or black

2 - TL34 in white or black end connector

30 - TL211 Rigid Loop lamp holders

30 - 5W 12 volt Xenon T3 Rigid Loop bulbs

1 - 200 or 250 watt 12 volt transformer ( I prefer Magnetic)

You will need a dimmer for the transformer. It has to be magnetic if you use a magnetic transformer and electronic if you use an electronic transformer

You should make sure the electrician doing the work checks the list because depending on how it is wired the supplies could vary. The reason you only need three tracks is they can be cut. He may need more end connectors if going from track to track.

Hope this helps

Paul

 

 

I am so absolutely grateful for your help with this. I've been putting the order together since you responded and now have a few more questions.

1. For the WAC pucs (remember that was 6 WAC HR86 at 20 watts)..the transformer..can I buy the EN-B12PX-AR (120v inp. 12v outp. 60-150w) or do I have to buy the EN-B12PY-AR (120v inp. 12v outp. 120-250w). I guess I wonder if the 150 has to be in the middle somewhere or can I take the lower wattage one where I just meet the specs.

2. What do you think if I centered the Juno rigid loop lamp holder and lamps 5 inches on center? That would mean I only have to buy 22 lamps and holders (3 each for the 15" cabinets = 6; 5 each for the 24" cabinets = 10; and 6 for the 30" cabinet; for a total of 22). I ask because a few days ago when I was trying to figure out what to buy, I called Juno and they told me if I bought those particular lamps that they should be placed 5" on center and the single lights should be 4" on center. I definitely want to stick with the rigid loop lamp light you recommended.

3. Transformer for the Juno Trac 12 UC lights. I'm going with the magnetic like you suggested but I was wondering if I need 2 since the UC lights are on opposite sides of the room that I need to connect to the transformer. When I was trying to figure out which transformer to order I read that if the line gets over 5' long the voltage drop increases. But now I'm thinking that even with 30 bulbs (5w x 30qty = 150 total watts) if I have the 240v transformer the line length may be a non-issue.

4. Bulbs: What is better? Frosted or clear?

1. For the WAC pucs (remember that was 6 WAC HR86 at 20 watts)..the transformer..can I buy the EN-B12PX-AR (120v inp. 12v outp. 60-150w) or do I have to buy the EN-B12PY-AR (120v inp. 12v outp. 120-250w). I guess I wonder if the 150 has to be in the middle somewhere or can I take the lower wattage one where I just meet the specs.

The rule for the transformer is it shouldn't be maxed out. 120 watts on a 150 watt transformer is okay. As a general rule the amount used should be within 100 watts of the total capacity of the transformer and not more than about 80%. The one you mentioned is fine but you will need an electronic dimmer.

2. What do you think if I centered the Juno rigid loop lamp holder and lamps 5 inches on center? That would mean I only have to buy 22 lamps and holders (3 each for the 15" cabinets = 6; 5 each for the 24" cabinets = 10; and 6 for the 30" cabinet; for a total of 22). I ask because a few days ago when I was trying to figure out what to buy, I called Juno and they told me if I bought those particular lamps that they should be placed 5" on center and the single lights should be 4" on center. I definitely want to stick with the rigid loop lamp light you recommended.

I think the 5" on center is good. The beauty of this type of system is if you find you need more light you can always add more lamps. Just be sure to leave some room on the transformers for this.

3. Transformer for the Juno Trac 12 UC lights. I'm going with the magnetic like you suggested but I was wondering if I need 2 since the UC lights are on opposite sides of the room that I need to connect to the transformer. When I was trying to figure out which transformer to order I read that if the line gets over 5' long the voltage drop increases. But now I'm thinking that even with 30 bulbs (5w x 30qty = 150 total watts) if I have the 240v transformer the line length may be a non-issue.

I don't know where your transformer is going to be located. A basement would be the best option. If there is no basement the sink base is a good alternative but you may want to stay with electronic in that case because magnetic transformers do hum a little. The key to the distance from the transformer and voltage drop is using a larger wire size. I always run at least a #12 from the transformer to the first light and go 10 or 15 feet with no ill effects. If you don't mind the money, 2 transformers would be the best, I was trying to keep the cost down with one.

4. Bulbs: What is better? Frosted or clear?

You get the most light from clear but overall I don't think it matters a whole lot.

Paul

Just wanted to say thank you for all your help. It was invaluable. I'm placing my order on Monday and I can't wait for the finished product.
Marianne