I started my NBE in nov., after reading Wahaika's thread regarding when to start NBE I am wondering if I should stop and restart in spring or after January 1.....any suggestions anyone? Or should i just continue since i already have a routine? I haven't felt tingling but do feel there is some fullness...am not sure if it is due just to the massaging and would go away if stopped massaging. Also, when she says to start routine "after departing winter solstice, preferably cycle day 1 after january 1". does this mean day 1 after ones period starts?

I, like everyone here, want to get the best from my NBE and if it means stopping for now and restarting I will but would love some advice from those of you who are well seasoned in this area........I guess for now, until i hear something i will continue with my herbs and massages.

Any suggestions would be very welcomed!

Hope all had a safe and happy Christmas and the new year brings joy and boobies to all!

Thank you
Laisegirl

I would love to know as well, I really don't want to waste anything that I have, by using it at the wrong time.

Hello!

I am a "he", not a "she."

A little history: My wife had the original interest in NBE and wanted me to do the research and she would do the program. She originally did what was termed as "Pammy's Routine" which was a *modified* Greenbush routine with the 90day kit. It worked very well. But she also started in a month departing the winter solstice and fit a similar profile as Pammy did, namely, she had breastfed at least one child. This is not a requirement, but I have found in the years since that time that it is a characteristic (one of several) that helps quite a bit. I have found that there are other characteristics that contribute to the success of NBE. I have continued to study the subject of NBE and help others as best as I can, since that time. I have an interest in other subjects as well and research on all of the subjects help each other.

I hope that you don't mind a man being on the board. I like to stay off as much as possible because I really support the idea of a board having a membership of 100% women. I chime in once in a while if I think I can be of help to someone where no one else has tried. I also report anything I find that appears to be significant so that all may benefit by the added information.

On to the question.

My personal opinion is that everyone is better off waiting until the Spring Equinox, or in other words, the first day of spring. Probably cycle day 1 after the 1st of March is just as good even if it falls before that day (around March 20th). I need to point out that this does not guarantee success. It is just one more thing that appears to help significantly. Those trying to *start a program* in the October to January months always seem to flounder in their success with temporary results and hints of growth but never any progress. If however, someone is *already growing* and November comes around, I think that they should continue the momentum as long as they can. But December usually stops them in their tracks.

There are several other characteristics of successful programs. This is one that appears to be consistent and reliable.

Wahaika

But I'm gonna give my 2 cents anyhow. XD

I say that if you really want fast results, then just wait until around Spring time to continue your routine. And in the meantime you can just keep up massaging or maybe topicals too. These methods are focused only on breasts, so I don't believe you'll have to worry about gaining weight elsewhere.

And if you're like me and are just stubborn, you'll just have to tough it out with slower growth until Spring time. At least it's not impossible to still see results. Right now I can say I'm impressed with my PM results. Unlike with Zoft, I have retained the majority of my fullness. And it's Day 5 of my cycle. I even measured myself and I got a lil over 1/4 inch of growth (or close to it, I'm still new to this measuring stuff). Not alot, but I can definitely see a difference compared to a month ago. I'll be glad for Spring though cause then that'll mean faster growth.

Hope this was of some help! :)

I started my routine some time in August, September, check out my page if you want to know for sure, it was some time in autumn though, and is a good few years back, 2005 or 2006 when I started the single herb routine. The Breast Gain Plus before that I dont even count.
Anyway, during my first 6 months I grew a lot, after that it felt like it all slowed down a bit. There may be some truth to what wahaika is saying but you just have to see for yourself, and everyone is different.
If you started on your routine already and have some fullness then I would keep going if I was you. That may be from massage but it may also be from your herbs. In general no growth that you have within the first three months is likely to stay if you stop within that time whatever you are doing, so if I was you stick it out for four months at least, and since it will be spring time by then keep going until a break is appropriate.
Chances are you will be in for the long haul anyway, so you may as well get going now.
Are you doing the pressure point massage? Anytime I managed to stick to that it really seemed to boost my boob growth, so that is definately worth a shot.
Good luck to you and dont worry so much about details, the important thing is to stick with what you are doing and stick with it for at least half a year.

Wahaika.....

Please accept my sincere apologies on my mistaking your writing as those from a woman. I just assumed...which i should not have done. i do not mind at all that a man is on this forum, any suggestions/theories backed by research is greatly appreciated. I am very impressed that a husband has taken so much interest in a subject and/or "routine" that his wife is involved in. i am sure there are alot of men(and woman)out there who would say we are all gasping at straws here. So PLEASE chime in anytime!!!

I have seriously considered your theory and feel it would be in my best interest to just wait til spring to continue my herbs, however i will continue the massaging. i do have some swelling(or so it seems) and i have been very inconsistant with the herbs...so maybe the massaging is doing something. I am a very impatient woman, when i want something i want it now so waiting will not be easy for me so i will have to keep telling myself the best chance for success is spring......

Unfortunatley, i did not breast feed either of my children...the first i was young and wasn't comfortable with the idea...the second was 5 weeks early, we both had a very serious infection, she was sent to a neonatel ICU at a Childrens hospital so i wasn't allowed to breast feed her. that is one strike against me.

Strike no.2 is that i am thin for my height....127 pounds at 5'8"...which i am very lucky to be however it seems it's not a good thing for NBE......

Wow talk about feeling discouraged!!!! But I will not give up!!!!!!

Again I am sorry for my assumption. Thank you for taking the time to respond and for all the research and suggestions you have given to me and so many others on here!!!!!!

Happy New Year!
Laisegirl

Laisegirl,

Going through two pregnancies are good strikes, not bad ones. Your body still went through 9 months of elevated hormones and more development. (Remembering that progesterone is 10 times normal levels during pregnancy)

127 pounds at 5'8" is not skinny in my book. That actually sounds right.

I noticed that waxingmoon recommended Surf's program for you. I was thinking the same thing. Just remember to use good potent herbs such as Greenbush, and to start slow and work up. I don't know what your starting size is but the smaller the starting size, the smaller the dosage you need or you could stall. The best way to determine this is to ramp up your dosages.

Externals are a good idea as long as you are using something that works. Don't forget the heat.

Happy New Year!

Wahaika

What differance doe's it make when you start your NBE program,if it's going work it works,if it don't,it don't!

wendyg, if something is working then by all means, don't stop a good thing! I asked the question because i want to get the best results from my NBE and i respect Wahaika's thoughts and suggestions. And although each one of us needs to develope our own NBE that works best for us and at times step back and evaluate and tweek things a bit, it appears to me that Wahaika's theory makes sense.

Wahaika...ok this seems weird to me....per your theory, i decided to stop all herbs until march but have continued with massaging twice daily with palmers butter and EPO followed with Vit E. The last day i took herbs was last sunday(i think) but i have continued to take the multi vit and milk thistle(to clean my system for about 2 weeks). Funny thing is, my breasts are fuller and "bouncier" and are filling my bra better. Ok, my breast swell about 1 week before my period and go down by the last day of my period(i usually go about 4-5 days). This time though, 1 day after my period stopped,(i stopped on dec 30th) the swelling was there again and hasn't gone down. Does this mean that maybe the herbs had finally started to kick in and i shouldn't have stopped? I first started my NBE herbs at the end of nov so i had been on them about 1 month when i stopped. Should i go back on them?????? Or just wait til spring like origianlly decided?

any thoughts you may have would be greatly appreciated, as always....
Laisegirl

What you are describing is a case of recovering from a stall. It will be interesting to see if on day 10 of your cycle if you have kept any of that growth. It may be either that you are on the departing side of the winter solstice, *OR* you have found another method of growing during the luteal phase.

In case you keep any of your growth, (cycle day 10 will tell you for sure) it might be a good idea to write it out in detail such as your cycle length, what day you stopped on, how much you were taking, and of what. Include the usual other stats so that it can be adjusted.

The drop in estrogen at the end of the cycle could be another thing that facilitated it. If this is the case then you have discovered another method of growing and your procedure should be remembered!

...if I just take papaya enzyme, pumpkin seed oil and dandelion tea for now with massage...will it hurt my chances of growth once the spring comes...or is it just that I might be wasting my time right now?
I plan on taking papaya enzyme,pumpkin seed oil, vitamin C with rosehip, gogi powder and fenugreek come spring, along with massage and extra protein...does this sound like it would make sense to you?
Thanks very much for any suggestions...I'm kind of spinning around in circles with all of the information on different herbs.

Yes Dani I know what you mean,can be a bit confussing!

Yes, definitely!
I had actually started a program in October, but I just hada feeling about it that it wasn't right for me...I don't know, call it a hunch, I didn't really have a logical reason for thinking that;)
I'd really like to know if what I have proposed above makes sense, is there anything I am missing?

Wahika and Lisa121



Wahaika,

You said I was describing a case of recovering from a stall...is this possible if 1) I had only been doing NBE herbs for a month and 2) had not seen any growth during that month UNTIL i stopped? (except the normal period swelling) I am sorry to ask so many questions, I am still learning this whole NBE thing....and am very fasinated by it on many levels.

Update.....I am on day 13 after stopping my period, which only lasted from Dec. 22 or 23(can't remember which) to Dec. 27(correction from earlier), which puts me on day 17 of my cycle, the swelling came back by day 2 after stopping, which never happens. And still have swelling and fullness, and still seem to fill out bras better. I am only a 34aa. I measured around at the nipple level and no measurable growth there. I know that i have read that some women experience the same thing with no measurable growth with a measuring tape.

I plan on writing down exactly when I start/stop this month to track progress better. I quit keeping track of it yrs ago when I had surgery for endometriosis and had my tube tied. My period usually comes pretty regular and lasts 4-5 days sometimes 6 but they are very light the whole time.

Adrop in estrogen level? I may have discovered another method? If so, how do i control this and make it work for me? and should I go back on the herbs, wait til after my next period to see what happens or just wait til spring but continue with the massage?

thank you again for all your thoughts.....

Lisa121,

Sorry to just get back to you but somehow i missed your message til now.....

I have been teetering between going back on the herbs now or waiting til spring, not sure which would be best. If i go back on them now, i feel i will need to take a break right in the middle of what seems to be prime growth season( per wahaika's theory) and I want to get the most out of that time.....at this point i have stopped all herbs....man this stuff is confusing!!!!!!!!!!

Point pressure massage? is that the chi massage(the one posted on this site)? if so then yes, i am doing that to a point. I have been good about doing the rotations but the pressure pionts i have done scattered. I know I should get back to it....now that the holidays are over, life can get back to normal.

I know i am in for a long haul and am willing to do it because i refuse to get implants. I have become very more in tune and aware of my breast since starting this journey and have read info on here til my eyes blurred but i have learned so much from the seasoned members. I aprreciate your thoughts and comments and would love to hear from you again with any more you may have......


Hope all are having a great start ot the new year and it continues throughout!!!!!!
laisegirl

Dani,

The papaya enzyme, pumpkin seed oil and dandelion tea are good to start doing about 4 to 6 weeks before starting. The massage will not hurt but may not do much. You are at a time that is departing the winter solstice so you are in a good time. The best is in March.

As for your program, including dosages, what did you have in mind?

laisegirl,

>>"You said I was describing a case of recovering from a stall...is this possible if 1) I had only been doing NBE herbs for a month and 2) had not seen any growth during that month UNTIL i stopped? (except the normal period swelling)"

Yes.

>>"Update.....I am on day 13 after stopping my period, which only lasted from Dec. 22 or 23(can't remember which) to Dec. 27(correction from earlier), which puts me on day 17 of my cycle..."

>>"the swelling came back by day 2 after stopping, which never happens"

If you have kept the growth/swelling beyond day 10 (10th day after starting menstruation for that cycle) then your growth is considered permanent. Growth does not necessarily show up on the measuring tape immediately. The real test is if, as you said, you can see it and you are filling out bras better. If you want to see it on a measuring tape, you will need to do more detailed measurements like width measurements (outer side of breast to sternum), above bust, bust, below bust (band), sternum to nipple, and nipple to crease or bottom of breast. A regular bust measurement does not take growth in the bottoms of the breast (which is the first place that filling out takes place) into account, nor back fat. So, if you just rely on a bust measurement, always take the band measurement as well in order to take back fat into account.

>>"Adrop in estrogen level?"

Refer to this graph:
http://beboard.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=medical&action=display&thread=4082


>>"I may have discovered another method? If so, how do i control this and make it work for me?"

The way to control it is to try and do it again. Whatever you did last cycle, exactly, do it again this cycle and see if more luteal swelling sticks after day 10 of the next cycle. As you grow more, you can experiment by adding more of something.

You said that you stopped "all herbs." Which ones, and how much of each one?

It is easier to stall a AA than it is to stall an A. You may have found a way for AA's to grow by *using* the stall and the estrogen/progesterone drop at the end of the cycle. (roaring applause!)

>>"and should I go back on the herbs, wait til after my next period to see what happens or just wait til spring but continue with the massage?"

I would say go back to what you were doing right now and continue it until the day of your cycle that you stopped (25?) and do it the same way. You may also consider restart/re-ramp your herbs again beginning on day 1 or maybe a few days later. But definitely see if you can reproduce what you did before and keep a written record that you can perfect for yourself and that would serve as an example for future AAs to consider, especially if they notice luteal swelling. Even those who are in the larger sizes who have luteal swelling due to herbs would benefit from the method of stopping herbs during those final days of the cycle. I really think you have something there.

Wahaika

Thanks for the response, I will start those now then:)
Once I start the program, I was going to plan on:
Morning-
1 fenugreek
1pumpkin seed oil
1 amino acid complex
1 green papaya enzyme
1 gogi capsule

I would repeat in the afternoon and evening, for the first 14 days of my cycle....what to do for the rest of my cycle...?

I am also planning on having a protein shake in the morning,
and massaging twice a day with heat afterwards.

Is there anything I am missing, does this make any sense or am I way off?
Thanks in advance for any advice:)

whoops!
I forgot to add the vitamin c with rosehips 3 times a day as well;)

Hi Linn,
that is not a problem, I wasnt sure if you maybe missed it. I replied to your other question as well a while back, since you asked for more advice and info, I wrote a bit there too so if you havent seen it yet with the holidays and everything I put the link for the thread below so you can find it easier.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/thread/1229870026/last-1230492845/I+need+some+encouragement+Monn%2C+waxingmoon+or+others+who+has+experience+with+vitex

If you stopped herbs already and have for a while then you may as well start up later if you go by wahaikas theory.
Yes, I mean the pressure point massage that is on this site, the knuckle massage is good, although I always noticed how doing massage of any kind for too long seemed for me more detrimental than good for growth. The knuckle massage I only do for a few rotations and never longer than a minute.
As for the pressure points, as I wrote in the thread before (link) I use EFT. With that I only use the finger points (too lazy for the other stuff and it still works well) and have been again more for the past 10-14 days and do about two rounds at night. I have used the affirmation statement for my boobs and growth etc.. Since I noticed that the hand pressure points are similar to the ones of the pressure point massage here I just use them like that now, only that I never tap but just hold the pressure for 5-10 seconds. For the past 6 days my nipples have been quite tender and my boobs feel fuller, or somehow like there is more tissue/fat there and they look a bit rounder as well. I am not on any herbs or teas or anything to boost growth so it must be from that, and I never get pains or tingles or any growing sensations when I am not on anything during my cycle, the most I believe I ever had was some tenderness when I ovulated for a day or two.
I am 26 years old so spontaneous growth is rather unlikely. :-) If you are interested, the EFT manual is for free and I think you can also get it in different languages too, all you have to do is type in "Gary Craig EFT".
Take care,
Lisa

Dani, what is is vitamin c and rosehips good for? I keep seeing these and am curious?

Dani,

What are you massaging with?

Wahaika

I usually massage with just pure coca butter, but have pm cream for the first 7 days of my cycle.

From what I understand, vitamin C helps with absorbtion, and rosehip is a good source of vitamin C.

Helps with the absorption of BE herbs? Interesting, thanks :)

Sorry Laisegirl, I meant you, not Linn. Somehow I kept seeing her name in all the threads and got mixed up. No offense.

Lisa121,

That is no problem....with so many people on here its easy to get confused.

I have put alot of thought into this and decided to restart my herbs, only a lower level. Wahika suggested to try again and see if i can dublicate my growth as i did last month. Since he seems to think i stalled, i have decided to start with lower doses until spring and then either ramp it up or change it around a bit by adding or stopping certain herbs.

Thnak you for you suggestions on the massage.....i just started the point massage last night. I did do it some last month but not consistantly so I am going to make sure i keep it up from now on.

Wahaika,

I started my period yesterday and started herbs again.

In the morning and afternoon:
1 - FG 500mg
1 - EPO 500 mg
1 - multivit

Plus morning massage with EPO and Plamers cocoa butter

Bedtime
1 - SP
1 - EPO

massage same above

I was thinking that since you seem to think i may have stalled, it'd be best to lower dosage of herbs to try to avoid this again. Then in spring to chnage/ramp up.

The change is that i am not taking a FG at bedtime and the hair nourishing vit( which i plan on starting after payday this friday)

Also i will probably take 1 RC in the AM since i have read suggestions that it may help with weight gain caused by SP.

What do think? Do you think this may be a good way to start back up?


Thank you both,
Laisegirl

Wahaika, I answered above, it might have gotten lost in ther somewhere:)
Does it make a big differece what I massage with?

Dani,

Yep, it does make a difference. There needs to be a good phytoestrogen and a carrier to help it absorb, as well as heat, especially if you are using coconut. A better carrier would be olive oil or borage oil or both. If you use coconut, you also need vitamin E, but you especially need fenugreek extract. Same if you use PM cream. Add some fenugreek extract to it.

Wahaika

Laisegirl,

>>"I was thinking that since you seem to think i may have stalled, it'd be best to lower dosage of herbs to try to avoid this again. Then in spring to chnage/ramp up. "

Well, yes and no. You can try it, but it could be that stalling then stopping during those last days of the cycle is the best way to grow for you. I would say do the same thing this cycle as last cycle to test the theory of stopping at the end of the cycle. But your logic is also sound about lowering the dosage during the cycle. I am just not so sure that it is the right thing to do in your case.

Maybe you lower the dosages for the first half of the cycle, work up to a slightly high dosage toward the end of the cycle and then dump it at the last week so that the natural drops in estrogen and progesterone will make you cross some kind of threshold where growth can occur on the way down. Interesting stuff.

I would definitely leave RC alone. It rarely works and does have a tendancy to stop everything in its tracks during the time that it is used.

Wahaika

Okay, I have marked that, I will add fenugreek,and try borage instead of cocoa butter.

What do you think of my proposed program other than the massage?
Thanks:)

It depends on what size you currently are.

Hi Wahaika, been a while, I am ready to start now, so I thought I would bump this up again, and make sure that I am doing what I should be. I have been massaging for the past couple of days with borage oil, I will try and make some of the olive oil and fenugreek mixture to alternate with.

I will also be doing the program above....can I try nettleroot instead of saw palmetto, I would use saw palmetto, but have problems with cellulite already.

As for size, I am currently a 32b, have breast fed 3 children and before children was a 34c.

Hello Dani,

Do you mean this:

>Morning-
>1 fenugreek
>1 pumpkin seed oil
>1 amino acid complex
>1 green papaya enzyme
>1 gogi capsule
>
>I would repeat in the afternoon and evening, for the first 14 days of my cycle....what to do for the rest of my cycle...?
>
>I am also planning on having a protein shake in the morning,
>and massaging twice a day with heat afterwards.


Are you able to get the Greenbush 90 day kit? I would say to ramp up to this:

Morning:
1000mg fenugreek
1000mg saw palmetto (or stinging nettle root and pumpkin seed oil)
1000mg wild yam
1000mg EPO

Afternoon:
500mg fenugreek
500mg saw palmetto (or stinging nettle root and pumpkin seed oil)
500mg wild yam
1000mg EPO

Evening:
1000mg fenugreek
1000mg saw palmetto (or stinging nettle root and pumpkin seed oil)
1000mg wild yam
1000mg EPO

Massage:
Make two batches. One batch to keep on hand steeping while the other batch is used:
1/2 cup Olive Oil + 1/2 cup Fenugreek powder + 24 (1000mg) Borage Oil Caps steeped for one week minimum before first use. (The longer the better) Some vitamin E could be added to this if desired. I would say that 12 (1000mg) for the above amount would be adequate. Again, the vitamin E is optional and it should be observed which one works best for each individual.

Get 2 8oz containers, preferably dark glass bottles. Steep (soak/let sit in a dark cool place like a closet) one while using the other.

Shake well every few days and before each usage.
Apply heat from a heated pad set to low for 5 minutes.
Massage in about a teaspoon or two each side for about 5 or 10 minutes.
Cover with saran wrap.
Apply heat for 15 to 20 more minutes from the heated pad set to low.
Leave the concoction on all night if possible.

Do this every night. Do this each day if possible making a total of two massages per day. Three is even better. If the above is too messy or too much trouble, you can also use Greenbush fenugreek extract and aloe vera gel.

Wahaika

Hi Wahaika,
thanks so much for taking the time to respond in such detail, I will definitely try and make some of that massage mixture.

That is what I meant...I can't afford the greenbush 90 day right now, and I am also not sure that it is available to Canadians...

So the stinging nettle with the addition of pumpkin seed oil would be just as good as saw palmetto? That would be fabulous if so..

And as far as cycling goes, should I stop taking everything all together from day 14 to 28?

Thanks again!

For this type of cycling stop herbs on the last 5 or 6 days of the cycle. For a 28 day cycle these are days 23 to 28.

Okay, I will try that and see how it goes! Thanks very much!!