Hi Wahaika,
Would love some advice when you have a chance. I am 34 years old. Have had two children, breastfed both, youngest is only 14 months old- finished breastfeeding.

Prior to children I was a B cup. Am now barely an A. I weigh 63kgs, carry more weight on hips and bottom than top half. In between children I tried Wonderup for 5 months and then some individual herbs- fenugreek, fennel, borage oil.
Not any noticeable improvement.

In the last few months I have been thinking I am estrogen dominant / progesterone deficient- have done some surveys and have all the symptoms of this imbalance. I am doing a saliva test this week.

I recently took vitex for a few months, it made me feel unwell, I have now stopped. I think my boobs are smaller, yet less saggy. I am not on any birth control and my periods are regular.

Im just wondering where to go to next. Am considering using progesterone cream for a while. What else can I do with this?
What about goats rue and stinging nettle root? Have been reluctant to use SP because of potential weight gain / cellulite etc.

Any input would be much appreciated...

Hi Dani,

Although I am sure that Wahaika will have some excellent advice, here is something I put together in the newcomer's section that may be of interest to you:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/522223/thread/1215963710/last-1238183422/Estrogen+Dominance+and+Deficiency+symptom+list...

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

I have the same thinking.
Im 22
No kids, healthy diet.

I have ordered Vitex from Swanson and 2 bottles of WU. I have already received my order.

I tend to use Vitex in the first 2 months to balance my hormone.
However, as I read somewhere Wahaki said that Vitex will stop breast growth.
In contrast, Waxingmoon suggest using Vitex. Besides, some people notice breast growth after using Vitex.

I was confused.
I know that Vitex increases Progesterone but it also reduces Prolactin (which makes breast tissue, am I rite to say?)

So, when using Vitex, what other herbs should I use to increase Prolactin?? Someone said Fenugreek. but I know that Fenugreek is a strong estrogic herb which newbie should not start with, especially who suffer from abnormal estrogen or ED.

I read Waxingmoon program carefully. beside Vitex, She used crused flax seed and EPO.

7months ago, I have already used BCP for 6 months continuously. Although BCP increases Progesterone, I didnt notice any breast growth. So, can I conclude that Progesterone increase is unnecessary for my breast growth?? (my sister and my mum have big and firm boobs after having kids.)

I am thinking about Progesterall cream instead of Vitex but I haven't done enough research so Im not confident to use it. :)

I will appreciate all your help. Thanks in advance. :)

Sorry for my stupid mistake. I meant Wahaika.

Dani,

When you tried fenugreek, fennel, borage oil, how much of each did you take, and when? Did you try saw palmetto at that time? Did you have a transdermal component?

I would be interested to know what your program was and what your saliva test reveals before going much further.

Are you more interested in hormone balance or BE? Or, trying to do both?

Wahaika

Hi Wahaika,
No I did not take saw palmetto with the other herbs. I took 1000mg fenugreek, 500mg fennel, 1000mg borage oil per day throughout my whole cycle for approx 4 months. I did minimal massage (about 5 mins per day) just using leftover Wonderup cream I had, and then cocoa butter cream. I have not used heat application.

My main goal is BE, although I would like hormone balancing also as the PMT symptoms are bothering me more lately (mostly the emotional side of it).

I do feel better after recently ceasing Vitex however. Less headaches, nausea gone, hair loss has slowed down.

I sent off my saliva sample today,

Thanks for your attention!,
Dani

Hi Wahaika,

Have you run across this research before?
_________________________________________________________________
Current research with Vitex has indicated usefulness in hyperprolactinemia. In studies with rats, Vitex was shown to inhibit prolactin release by the pituitary gland p; particularly under stress. The mechanism of action appears to involve the ability of Vitex to directly bind dopamine receptors and subsequently inhibit prolactin release in the pituitary.14,15 Slight hyperprolactinemia is commonly associated with corpus luteum insufficiency.16
_________________________________________________________________

I could not find the source this was referring to, but that last part "hyperprolactinemia is commonly associated with corpus luteum insufficiency" was very interesting to me. Also, another reference to hyperprolactinemia indicated it was common in cases of hypothyroidism. Hypothyroid symptoms are very common in low progesterone cases.

I just thought I would bring this to your attention because in these two cases the use of vitex would be a good solution. The lowering of prolactin would actually normalize the hormonal state which could make NBE more possible.

So anyway, I found it interesting and thought you might as well.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

Hi Waxingmoon,

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/archives/best/1995/vitex-1.html

I don't think that I have seen this one before, but it does raise an interesting question in regard to PCOS.

Could Hyperprolactinemia be one of the causes of PCOS?

Wahaika

Dani,

Saw Palmetto is still good to use even with weight gain. Just use less than you normally would, maybe half or less of the fenugreek dosage (usually these would be the same) This is one of the good reasons to take individual herbs rather than some of the kitchen sink recipes on the market. You always have the ability to adjust.

Did you have a massage component to your program? Getting the herbs transdermally is a very important part of any program.

>>"What about goats rue and stinging nettle root? Have been reluctant to use SP because of potential weight gain / cellulite etc."

Goat's rue is a great herb. One of the ways it works is to resensitize receptors in the hypothalumus, especially insulin receptors because of its metformin content, but it may work with others as well as it is a potent galactagogue as is fenugreek.

Stinging nettle root is good to raise free testosterone and estrogen.

Getting some good exercise to stay fit, not necessarily to burn fat, is a good part of any program and may keep the cellulite at bay. You can always use something like yohimburn if necessary.

Some more things to consider are EPO and/or borage oil, and a good multivitamin which contains a B complex.

Still waiting for those saliva test results.

Wahaika

Thanks Wahaika for your information on individual herbs.
I'll post again when I get my saliva test results back.
Best wishes, Dani