Hi all,

I just got my saliva test results back. Have been staring at them for a while now... trying to interpret correctly.
The test was taken during luteal phase. Here are my results and normal 'ranges'

Progesterone 838.8 pmo/L - normal range 318-1590 pmo/L

Estradiol 13.4 pmo/L - normal range less than 18 pmo/L

progesterone / estradiol ration = 62.6. -Normal ratio range is 4 - 108


----------------------

The advice at the bottom of my results says that a ratio of Estradiol 1:200 progesterone should be aimed for during luteal phase.

Am I correct in interpreting that although my results are in normal ranges, perhaps the progesterone could be higher and estradiol lower?



Also, my testosterone level was 31.4 pmo/L, with the normal range being 25-190.
They have given me advice to supplement my 'free testosterone level.


I was going to start on prog cream as my next step. What do you guys think?
Do these results suggest that I shouldn't focus on estrogenic herbs like fenugreek? (Didn't have results with that in the past but was maybe not using the right combination of herbs?)

What other herbs do you think would be compatible with these results?

Thanks so much, Dani

Hi Dani,

What day of the cycle were these tests from? If it was early in the luteal phase the progesterone might be lower, but about 5 days prior to the start of your period and it should be at about its highest level. If I knew what part of luteal you were in then I could make a better answer.

So, according to the report you are in the normal range, but your ratio is off... I guess I agree with that and if so I would say you have higher than desired estrogen as well as lower than desired progesterone.

This would rule out estrogenic herbs because you wouldn't want to increase estrogen further.

Do you have symptoms of estrogen dominance? How old are you? Knowing this could help me answer better.

You could use crushed flax seed to lower your estrogen levels and then your ratio would be much improved even without bringing your progesterone levels up.

As far as using progesterone cream I would say it depends on your symptoms. If you have few ED symptoms then just lower your estrogen and see what happens. If you have a lot of ED symptoms then either vitex or progesterone cream - but be sure to research both first.

I would not have you try to raise testosterone levels right now.

As far as NBE - massage, hypnosis, magnets or suction will not further imbalance your hormone situation. Since you have tried herbs before without success perhaps research these methods as an alternative.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

Same questions.

Hi Waxingmoon and wahaika,
thanks for responding.

I am 35 years old with 2 children, breastfed both.
I weigh 63 kgs, not sure what that is in pounds. Pre children I was a (small) 12B. I am now a 12A.
I believe I have some symptoms of estrogen dominance- PMS: bloating, mood swings, anxiety, anxious depression, weepiness for last week of my cycle.

I took the saliva test on day 20 of my cycle. I have a 28 day cycle.

With the crushed flaxseed- how do you take it- as a drink or on food? I have only tried it on my cereal and it went all thick and made me gag!

Thanks for your help, best wishes, Dani

Dani,

You seem estrogen dominant for day 20 on a 28 day cycle. I would think that estrogen should be lower at that time, but then again, I'm not an expert. Testosterone looks pretty low, but raising it could possibly make you more estrogen dominant.

What combinations of herbs were you taking before, and for what purpose?

What is the purpose of taking herbs? To balance hormones or to do NBE? (In case the two turn out to be incompatable)

What led you to take a saliva test? What problem were you trying to show?

Hi Dani,

I would agree with Wahaika that your results for that late in your cycle seem off with estrogen and I also think your progesterone would have been higher.

As far as the flax seed I use mine in a smoothie with yogurt, protein powder and milk. Yes the texture is somewhat thick, but it works fine. The higher quality crushed flax seed tastes better and since the idea is to use this to lower estrogen it makes sense to get an organic one. Pesticides are a xeno-estrogen and can raise estrogen levels.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

Thanks so much Wahaika and Waxingmoon for your input.

I took a saliva test to establish whether my hormones were out of balance because as I researched more I began to suspect I was estrogen dominant and that that was why the mainly estrogenic herbs I used in the past did not work for me- Wonderup for 5 months, then a break then fenugreek, fennel, saw palmetto together.

My main aim is NBE! Have just discovered the hormone imbalance stuff along the way. Would be great if I could reduce the PMS symptoms of the estrogen dominance. Starting on the crushed flaxseed again today. I take a good vitamin supplement and fish oil. Increased protein in diet and have limited processed / sugary / starchy foods.

But what about my little boobies?! I keep believing it's possible to get back to a B cup - or more! Should I just go for other methods like massage, hypno etc.?
Would it be worth trying goats rue?

Love Dani

PS- I think I want to try progesterone cream

bump!

Dani,

Well, as far as NBE goes, I would definitely not start out with progesterone cream. I think that massage with EPO with a *little* fenugreek extract or wild yam extract with heat would be something to try for a month. Don't do any internals yet.

Another problem is that you are in the middle of what could be considered "growing season" which means that this could turn into something that needs to be handled differently in the late Fall/Winter months.

Given that you were told to raise free testosterone, it logically follows that you want to keep it from turning into estrogen at the same time, because more free testosterone could end up turning into more internal estrogen. So, here is something to try:

Use EPO externally.
Take EPO internally. 1 gram 3 times per day.
I still think that wild yam and possibly saw palmetto as internals would be an advantage. If you don't feel comfortable with these then leave them out for the first month.
Take 50 mg chelated zinc once per day.
Take stinging nettle root every day. (unsure of dosage, I'll have to get back to you on that - maybe someone has been using it?)
Get some serious exercise every day, preferably resistance exercise every other day.
Keep up the protein (make sure it's whey not soy), fish oils, and multi vitamin.

Try this for one cycle and see if you feel a difference in overall health and NBE. I don't think we want to start throwing too much at the problem at once.

My 2 cents,

Wahaika

Hi Dani,

I like what Wahaika said although I don't think I would advise anything to lower testosterone (saw palmetto or nettle root). I also would avoid wild yam in your situation because it has been shown to attach to progesterone receptors and potentially lower total progesterone levels.

Have you used massage techniques? Not just a little massage, but the types described on the main page. With the external oils this might really be a good NBE thing for you.

Also, if it is possible you might be a great candidate for suction method. Many women who have had children respond quickly to this method. Check out the massage section on the main page to find out the various options there.

NBE is very possible without herbs -massage, hypnosis, magnets and suction methods all have people that have grown.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

Hi Wahaika and Waxing moon,
Thanks for your advice.
At this stage I have decided to just try more intensive massage with EPO. Im also taking EPO internally along with my fish oil and multivitamin, and protein rich diet (not soy).

Wahaika, what are your reservations about Prog. cream for NBE for someone like me? Just curious..

Thanks again,
Dani x

Hello Dani,

My reservations for progesterone cream for NBE is for everyone in general.

I am not convinced that progesterone cream is something to be used like any other herb. If it were, women would be ramping the dosage like they do every other herb. Progesterone cream should only be used on certain days. It has a long and glorious history, from my observations, of stopping BE growth. There have been a few exceptions to this. It is a subject that still needs some oversight - someone to categorize what has worked and what has not, for whom, and what their hormone characterisics and physical stats were. The key would be to know why it worked for those whom it worked for, and therefore why it did not work for those whom it did not work for. Then there are also the risks that some women have already experienced when using it just because it looked like a good thing to do. It could be argued that Vitex is just as safe and innocuous. Again, for women in menopause I have no problem. For all others, I have seen too many cases that persuade me in the direction that progesterone cream does not belong in NBE, generally.

Wahaika