Hi everyone, ive started to hit a few problems and i feel very upset and down about them. I know i shouldent really be writing this on this forum and im sorry i just need a little advice or a kind word. Ive been told today that i might loose my job due to the way i look. I work with the public in sales and i wear a shirt and tie, the same as i always have, ive been in this job for 5 years and i love it. I told my boss what i was doing 2 months ago and things have been tough at work since, they said i could put of certain customers and loose sales because i look feminine now and it doesent look professional. They also said i looked a mess in my clothes. And i dont look great to be fair, but im finding it hard to fit into any of my work clothes and they hang and fit me all wrong. I really dont know what to do, i love this job im very upset about this. The second thing is not as serious but it has still upset me. Ive been a member of a tennis club for 3 year, since i started my NBE i havent played until last week, i played with my male friend and i got some funny looks but im use to that, but everyone at the club seemed fine. Now this morning ive had a letter to say that due to the club being very popular at the moment that they can no longer offer me a membership, and feel i should maybe try another club. Now thats rubbish and i know it and its because of how i look now. I never thought these kind of things still happened and its really depressed me. Im sorry to go on and its not the right place for any of this really but im really angry and upset and dont know what to do. Thanks for reading everyone. xxx

Hi Cheryl,

I really feel for you. This is quite a problem and your rights are being violated. You need a lawyer to tell you what you can do about it.

No one should be discriminated on the basis of their looks. You have the right to have breasts if you want them. It will be a battle Cheryl, but I think the law is on your side.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

deffo seek legal advice i can only imagine you come from a country who treat people like ****, in the UK this would never even be suggested in any work place i can think of, i know it probably wil happen but jeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeeeee it really really makes me mad to think at this day and age this kind of crap is happening ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Ok I'll probably raise some eaybrows and maybe offences by my opinion, but I'll say it anyway. I think it's unjust what's happening to you Cheryl, but fact is this was the expected result.

Firstly to adress the job issue; it's very unfair and unforunate for you, but it's understandable that the top priority of a buisiness is their profit, that's what a buisiness is supposed to do to be succesful. I can't give you any advice on what to do here, but lets analyse your options. You can comply and look the way they want you too, but then you'd probably feel like you aren't being yourself and you wouldn't love your job as much anymore. The other option is to go legal route, but I have a hunch the working environment, atmosphere and relationships would change for the worse. Neither much of an option huh?

You see, the majority of people are extremely prejudiced, closed minded and react with negative emotions, rejection and even hate to what they don't know, what they don't undertand, what's different. You want people to simply see you for the person you are and accept you like you deserve, like we all do, like it should be. But fact is, more often than not, that doesn't happen, especially if you're ''different''. Some people will accept you, but lots won't. Do you want to always stuggle with people's harasment and rejection?

There's a lesson we all have to learn sooner or later - life's a bitch, world's unfair and people are stupid. Ok I'm being a little cynical and ironic here. :p I don't mean it so literally and so depressively, what I mean is - you have to see things realistically and take reality into account. I feel that's what you failed to do so far and this is what happens - the reality smacks you right into your face. The world is not a cotton candy land. The reality is what it is, it's often not what we want it to be and it won't become that just because we want it. We should always fight and try to change things that are wrong, but we can't avoid reality, we must also adapt to it and learn any ways we can to manage it or just live with it, otherwise we fail.

Remove them if you want to be taken seriously.

I think that if there is going to be a consideration of fairness, then one must look at what is fair and to whom.

Is it fair to the business owner (employer, club, whatever) to be forced to "accept"/tolerate conditions that would force them to failure and loss of everything they have risked their lives and family to create?

I think a good look at reality, especially where businesses that rely on outward appearances are concerned, would show that they are justified and you are not. Remember, it is you that changed the conditions of your relationship, not them.

Hi everyone thanks for your replys, and i know its unfair for me to expect people to just treat me the same as they did before i started NBE alot has changed, i knew this could happen and there would be problems. The only way i feel i can be excepted is by living my life as a woman and i feel im being forced down this route, i already spend alot of my home life dressed as a female now mainly due to the fact that people treat me better and dont seem so confused at what im doing. I must admit i feel ok with this and i do look better as a woman than i ever did as a man. But the fact is i never wanted to be a woman and i feel im slowly being forced into being one by peoples opinions. If i give in at work and maybe dress as a woman then i feel i could keep my job but again its like im being forced into doing it. I do feel that i am becoming a different person, my friends treat me as female now, that seems to be the only way they can make sense of what ive done, and being treated this way and spending more time dressed as a woman im becoming fine with it, i even like it at times, for the first time in my life im also started to feel attraction to men and this is scary, i dont know why, maybe its hormones mixed with being treated and looked at in a different way, but it has happened. I feel the only way to be excepted is to live my life as Cheryl and even though i never wanted this, im now seriously considering it. Thanks everyone for your support and advice it means alot to me. But the fact is a man with breasts will never be took seriously and i know this now. Thank you xxxx

I take a little offence to that Wahaika, why should i remove them, i can look how i wish and for your infomation my work has not suffered one bit my sales are up and my customers are fine. You are just another example of why so many people who choose to be different in some way are not excepted in life even though they harm no one and are happy within themselfs. My boobs are going no where, i knew what could happen when i started this and i will fight all the way like i always do. I find that comment to be very offensive to me, ive worked hard to grow my breasts like many of you have worked hard to increase yours. Its like me saying im sorry your breasts are too large now, stop what your doing and make them smaller again else you loose your job, how ridiculous. The fact is i have rights to do as i choose and if im good at my job which i am, why should i loose it.

Cheryl, Wahaika was blunt, but what he says is true. He didn't say you don't have the right to do NBE and look like you want, he said that if you want to be taken seriously you probably have to. You know that's true, you said so yourself one post back. But if your sales are not suffering that's great, then you are really good at what you do. However in most cases / with other people / in general in such a situation they very likely would; that's why your bosses are understandably concerned. You should talk to them and ask for a chance to prove that your work and sales are not suffering, then they have no economic reasons to fire you.

Sorry to hear Cheryl, I know it's tough ;-/,
I do agree with Moon and Wahaika, as they make a point. The way I see it is, you have to know how to play the game. There are rules, although they may be unfair and unjust, they are still rules created by the head person (in this case, your boss). You can't one day just change the rules and expect everyone to flow with it and try to accept you. It just doesn't work like that. To create a movement that will enforce acceptance is something that takes a long time, and it shouldn't begin in the work place because could potentially put their business at risk or your own job at risk. If I were you, I wouldn't remove my breasts. but I would draw a line between my personal life and professional life.

Here is an example, although it may not be the best: Imagine a man who has 5.5 foot long hair wanting to keep his hair length because he felt like it had some symbolic meaning or he just liked it. And he's a lawyer wanting to get hired. The difference in him having high chances of getting hired vs minimal chance all depends on what he does with his hair. If he feels that it's that important to let all his hair out to show the world who he really is, then good for him, but I doubt he'll get the job because it doesn't seem proper. Or he could tie his hair up very tightly and neatly into a bun and increase his chances of being hired.

I think there's a time and place for everything, and this is probably not the time (as people are not used to seeing men with boobs at this time yet), or place (as this is a professional work place) to show yourself 100%. I would definitely prioritize here.

I'm sorry that you're so upset Cheryl. I understand that you must feel so aggrieved because as you see it your right to self determination is being denied by the people you work for because they don't like or understand your lifestyle choice. I may be naive but have you approached your line manager to talk about what you're doing?

I think that whilst it's no-one else's business what you choose to do, if your choice has an implication on others, like your boss, then maybe talking to them so that they can be prepared for your appearance to change or can maybe understand a bit more about the changes you are making, therefore they may not be so afraid of the changes?

I also think that you might speak to a lawyer with specialist knowledge about equalities issues or human rights legislation so that you can clearly define your rights. In addition, you could approach an organisation that has experience in supporting individuals who are facing inequality, in the UK for example there is an organisation called Press for CHange (www.pfc.org.uk) who campaign for equalities issues and civil rights.

You're committment to your principles is admirable!
Best wishes

P.S. I know your post said that you had spoken to your manager initially and it hasn't helped - i was thinking more if you met with them to talk about ways to resolve the problems - for example, if there are compromises you can both agree on to improve the situation?

You know I will probably never 'get' why a guy would want to have breasts, but then again... I don't have to 'get' it. Nobody around him has to 'get' it either. It is his choice and I really feel for him because society is pushing him in a direction he does not want to go.

Cheryl clearly feels better about himself with his breasts enlarged. He just wanted bigger breasts, but now along with the boobs he has:

1. Interpersonal relationships thrown into upheaval. - this seems expected - I mean I doubt that many of his friends 'get' why he wants breasts. They probably thinks this makes him gay... which leads to the next problem.

2. Many people are treating him as if he is gay or that he is a transsexual. He is feeling pressured into cross dressing which was not what he originally wanted to do. The peer pressure is so strong he is starting to question his sexual identity. - Remember - he did not start this quest as a way to be more female or because he is gay. He just wanted to be a guy with boobs.

3. He now is being judged at work, not by his performance, but because his manager thinks he is gay or a transsexual. It is not the customers that are being troubled by Cheryl's looks. Cheryl's boss is troubled by the whole "Cheryl grew boobs" scenario.
-----Now for the complaint of clothing, Cheryl, there is an easy solution. Many men are troubled with 'man-boobs'. You need to have clothing tailored to your new shape. Good fitting clothes - male clothes - are the solution here. There is bound to be some sort of vest you could wear to reduce the appearance of you chest. You could also wear a tight fitting sports bra which would also 'flatten out' your curves (that underneath a vest so that the bra would not be visible under your shirt).
-----In this way you would reduce the whole 'workplace dealing with your boobs' issue and keep your boobs a private matter - as they should be.


Imagine if Cheryl had grown breasts without trying to. Gynecomastia is not an uncommon condition in men. Would it be okay for him to be treated this way if his breasts grew without him wanting them.


What if Cheryl was a woman who was previously flat chested and then got a boob job and became huge boobed? Would this have 'changed the condition of the relationship' with his job situation?

What if Cheryl was a woman who had both of her breasts removed and then did not have reconstruction and refused to wear 'falsies'... would it be okay to discriminate then?


Just what is it about Cheryl's choice to change his looks that has created all of this madness?????


I guess what this is saying - and what many seem to agree is that breasts are extremely important. Having them when you shouldn't and not having them when you should.... Is either situation an acceptable reason for discrimination??


Best wishes,
waxingmoon

hey i just want to say that i wish you lucj and hope those sexist jerks get whats comming to them.

chin up girl!

hey cherl. i might have missed this as i was reading but what exactly are the saying is wrong w/ your look? your boobs are too big or too small? or nothing about the boobs? just clothes? im totally lost about that but its very mean what they are doing to you...especially kicking you out of that club. im sorry about this all and hope it all works out for you. good luck.

Cheryl,

I'm sorry to hear this is happening to you. I hate that even today, society can be so backwards.

I don't know what part of the world you call home/if you feel comfortable sharing that information, but here in Canada, there are strict regulations set in place that would protect someone such as yourself in the workplace. Here, there are certain questions an employer is not even allowed to ask on a job application form, such as gender (!) or religion. If you were here, the law would be on your side as far as I know, because, despite that the majority of society isn't ready for you, this IS discrimination, no matter how anyone tries to cut it. And in Canada there are laws prohibiting discrimination in the hiring/firing process. You would be wrongfully terminated as far as I know, but I have no idea what the laws in your country instated.

Check out your legislation laws and see if they're on your side as well. If they are, get some legal counsel, as you have every right to continue working a job that you obviously have a talent for (your job performance in sales haven't been affected as you said).

I hate that you've been pushed around not only in your personal life, but your professional life as well :( Big hug!

Nice post WaxingMoon,

Cheryl, what many of us are saying here is not whether or not you should be having breasts; obviously you can, it's your choice. What my post was about was just pointing out ways that you could be yourself and still be tactful about it. It's not what you do, it's how you do it.

ok...i know now. sorry

Hi everyone, thank you all for your comments. I feel my work is judging me on what i told them, i was honest and told my boss that i had breasts, now i do cover up at work and dress in shirt and tie and trousers as i always have,ive had no complaints made and my work is exellent my sales are above target, so because my boss doesent agree with what im doing i loose my job or i could dress more suitable as my manager puts it, and he means for me to dress as a female. Now i know all too well that many people dont understand what im doing and im not a fool, i wouldent expect them too, i knew before i started NBE that it would be tough, and i never expected to have results like i have to be honest, so theres the good news my NBE is exellent lol and im still growing even after stalling. I understand what alot of you are saying and i agree with you, that my work must make money and be succesful, but what im saying is why should i loose my job just because im growing boobs or have boobs, im not showing them or anything i do bind them for work, i believe my boss is just against anything like this and is trying to make some point. If i hadent been so honest i wouldent be in this situation at work, the only reason i did tell them was because it had come out in my personal life and my work would have found out. I am going to seek legal advice over this, because i believe this is one man, who happens to be my boss, has took this personal and doesent agree with it. I have also written a letter to the directors of my company to inform them of this, and to ask if it is a company decision or its just my boss. As far as the tennis club goes, i can understand it a little more and maybe except it. I did not hide my breasts when i played, i actually had a womans top on and went as a woman to try to be excepted better, but again i might have been hoping for too much so i will except this. I think to be honest ive finally given in to trying to be a man with breasts, it is not excepted, and they are hard to hide and painfull, my body has changed also i have a big ass lol rounder hips and ive lost muscle, i never wanted to be a woman, but as im living more as a woman i feel excepted better this way and i am going to go more down this route now, i am tired of fighting for the simple things in life just because of a pair of boobs, but i wouldent go back to not having them, they are part of me and i love them. I think you all for your advice and honesty and hope i havent offended any of you with my views. xxxx

Cheryl, I think you have probably been a little to open and outward with your new body/image/identity. One doesn't have to and it's better not to come out with personal things like that. Yes to very few carefully chosen people one is close with, but the wider public - no. It's none of everyone else's buisiness and similary, and importantly, most people don't like being presented with other people's personal things and intimacies. They simply don't want to know and be made a part of them. It makes them feel kinda as if their privacy is being invaded; they're being imposed upon with your privacy. That is often the reason why they may respond more agressively. And by being too outward you also force them into reacting and taking some sort of attitude or stance - that's why you are now dealing with all kinds of roles they are attributing to you. I think you should enjoy your breasts at home, but the public simply dosn't need to be made a part of it. It'd be better for everoyne and not least, it'd be btter for you.

Wow.

Cheryl,
Have you tried getting your clothes tailored to your body? This may be expensive, but if you have five shirts and three pairs of slacks tailored to fit better, then you could change them out and have enough clothes to last you through the week. If your clothes fit better, then your boss "SHOULD" not have any legitamite reason for complaint. I cannot imagine how difficult this is for you. You have made some pretty hard decisions. You knew there may be some consequences for your decision (although I don't think there should be, we live in a very prejudiced world). Have people reacted as badly as you imagined they would? I always try to imagine peoples' reactions to things that I do. It always seems that what I imagine their reactions will be are much worse than the reality.
The whole tennis club thing is beyond my understanding. It is a club that you pay a membership for? I really don't understand the concept. Could there be a legitamite reason for the cancelling of the membership? Such as other people have used their memberships more often than you and so they are cancelling those members that have come less than a certain number of times in a month... I am just trying to play devil's advocate. Sometimes I think things are happening because of me and in reality it really has nothing at all to do with me personally. It just seems to happen that way. So sorry for writing a book. I hope things work out.
Laura

Cheryl,

One advice for the work situation...I agree with the couple of ppl who have suggested tailoring your shirts. Another thing you can do is make your shirt bigger. Try not to bind your breasts as much as you can because I think it's best to give boobs more breathing space. Only bind as much as you need. One thing you can do is wear a fake belly. That way your boobs won't look as pronounced.

Unfortunately in the corporate world the superficial look is important. People get confused easily and many people are really resistant to changes or to things that is beyond their old understanding and their comfort zone. And you like this job and want to keep the job...so just play with the game and make urself "look" more "professional." As double_ace said, be tactful.

Hi everyone, thanks for your advice and support, i feel alot better today as ive had a good day in the sun. I have been dressed as a woman today but it was comfortable for me and in this weather i must admit womens clothes are more comfortable lol. I think that getting my work clothes fitted is a good idea so thank you i am looking into this. I must admit that most people are excepting of me and its only a few that i have problems with, i actually got assaulted 2 weeks ago in a bar, it wasent serious and i only recieved a few bumps and bruises, but i did get embarrased in a big way as my shirt was ripped, so i think im just finding things a little harder now my boobs are getting bigger and im getting defensive all the time and sensitive to what people say i maybe getting a little paranoid if im honest and i think at times people are having a go at me when there not. The hormones from NBE have effected me emotionly in a big way and im just coming to terms with all these new feelings and emotions. So i am sorry if ive sounded a little snappy or angry. My job is a big part of my life so as of tomorrow ill be doing all i can to resolve these problems at work and do the best for me and the company. Thank you all so much. Good look everyone. xxxx

Question... Sorry, I'm just tiring to understand this scenario better. So, you are a man who desire breasts? But you are not gay or transexual? I have to say that is very intriguing. What do you suppose possessed you to have such desires? Again, I apologize if this is too personal or comes off insensitive, I'm just a little fascinated.

Hi sophiee, i dont mind people asking me questions so dont worry, i have just felt since i was about 14 that i should have breasts and i dident so my body image has always been wrong, i have recently found out that i have a hormone inbalance caused by having a testicle removed when i was younger which effected my puberty, and i believe this is a big factor in my desire for breasts, and the reason why i have had such good results with my NBE. I have posted on this forum alot so if you wish to know in more detail just take alook and feel free if you wish to ask any more questions, i have a post going in the off topic forum so that would be the best place to ask any thing more if you wish, the same goes to anyone on here who has any questions because i feel alot of people do. Thanks xxxx

I agree with everyone that if you want to keep your job, maybe just play the game. Unfortunately some times we all have to overcome our pride a little bit and play the game in the professional world.... Of course you could go the legal route but not only would that cost you money, but would definetly change the environment that you work in, and probally not in a good way. But if you do end up losing your job over this I would definetly get some legal representation....

So my advice is to just play the game, continue to do a great job at work, and keep your professional and personal life separate as much as you can. I wish you the best and hope everything gets resolved to your satisfaction! Good luck with everything!!

Hi.
I dont get a chance to come on here often as i have restricted use of the internet. I am one of cheryls friends and i am female, and i am also doing herbs and massage to increase my bust.
I have just read alot of the posts people have left regarding cheryls situation.
I have to admit i agree with some of them and cheryl knows this. I love cheryl to bits and we are best friends but i still dont fully understand why he wants to be a man with breasts.
Cheryls breasts are getting quite large and i know he has massive problems hiding them when he needs too but i dont believe its just his boobs that are the problem in this situation.
I have knew cheryl for many years before he started any of this, and he is a really nice man, and i have to admit when he told me what he was doing i was taken back and i was shocked.
I saw the results for myself and i did find it a little strange and amusing. Now i know that sounds horrible but cheryl knows all this and he understands that it was a shock for me.
I instantly thought he wanted to be a woman and i took that stance with him, but he told me that he just wanted breasts, which i still cant understand fully.
But the problem for cheryl is he has grew breasts that are quite large and seem to be growing rather fast, but he has become very feminine in general and this is what alot of people cant understand.
He has got a very curvy butt and wide hips and i believe this causes massive problems clothes wise, more so than his breasts. So he buys larger trousers and wears a belt but it looks stupid and i think this is the problem at his work. His clothes are too large for him because he wears them like that to try and hide his figure.
He does wear female clothes now and i think he looks good and i know he feels more at ease in them but he still insists he wants to just be a man with breasts. I feel he needs to decide what he wants to be as it will be very hard for him to keep his job looking the way he does.
I think cheryl you need to make a decision on who you want to be and for god sake let me help you with this, and i am sorry if what ive said here upsets you, but i think it needs to be said.

Hi everyone, my job situation is sorted now, i have been offerd a new position within the company that suites me and my work, i also get to work a little from home which is good lol. My company seems to be trying to keep me with them, but they feel because of my physical appearance changing they feel my work could be effected so they have put me in an office on a computer lol, but the pays better and if i wish to dress as a woman i am able too with this job. So im happy with this solution. And thanks Rox again for being my best friend, and making me come to my senses abit lol. And again thanks everyone for your advice and support it means alot to me. xxxx

I'll never understand men wanting to have breasts, and neither will the majority of others prolly, since we're so used to the standard male and female image. But anyhow, cheryl I'm glad that things have worked out in your favor and you even got an increase in your salary now! Hope things continue to go smoothly. Take care!

Since everoyne is saying how it's hard to understand why a man would want breasts and be a man with breasts, I thoguht I might tell that I actually have a theory cause it may be helpful or just interesting to some. Now this will be a very ''scientifically biased'' theory comming from a med student.

You know, there is something called body integrity disorder, now that's different, it's when people don't want a body part they have and are supposed to have, like a leg, and actually want to get rid of it. It seems really freaky to most people, and I don't want to compare Cheryl's desire to have breasts in this sense, but in the basic medical mechanism we could, it's the opposite - wanting an extra body part one doesn't have and isn't supposed to have. The body integrity disorder is clearly caused by something in the brain, and so could Cheryl's case, since a desire comes from the brain.

If I'm not mistaking scientist have already detemined that brain centers exist which control how we percieve, think and feel about our body. Apart from body in tegrity disorder, condition that could result from sth being different or wrong in that centre are anorexia neurosa and body dismorphic disorder. In Cheryl's case it may be that there were just some different conditions during fetal development or early childhood that affected development of that centre, like different hormone levels.

Ok, it's possible that I'm speculating too much here trying to probe the exact mechanisms, but if we know that those ''body image'' brain centres exist, then we can begin to understand.

Finally, I've heard of other cases of men wanting to grow breasts, Natureday product has male pictures and testimonials on their site. I haven't done so, but by googling one could possibly find more is known about this.