Hi everyone, im new to the forum and was looking into NBE for myself.
What i am wondering is, does anyone have any measureable results from using NBE?

Ive looked at the before and after pictures people have put up and to be honest, im a little underwhelmed.
I dont really see any changes in any of the pictures that have been posted.

So, basically, before i start NBE, i just wanted to ask.....

Are you gals sure that the breast enhacements you have experience arent just a result of the placebo effect, or simply wishful thinking?
Does anyone have any more concrete evidence that this stuff works?

Thank you very much ladies, i really want this stuff to work, but im a skeptical person by nature.

So I'm guessing you only looked at one or two pics and made your judgment?

Now now, lets not get offended at what i said.

I pretty much looked at all the pictures that were posted, before, after...you name it, i looked at it.

If the fact that i didnt see any results bothers you, well, then im sorry....
I asked a legitimate question, so before everyone starts accusing me of being a plastic surgeon plugging breast implants, i think what i asked should be given a fair answer.

The placebo effect is a known scientific phenomena, to deny it is to bury your head in the sand.
Im not here to rain on anyone's parade, skepticism is a healthy thing.

Before commiting to a program like this, i think i should ask some legitimate questions, like i have.

Um, seems to me that you're the one getting offended. You asked a question and I asked one in return. Don't I have just a much right to do so as you?

I also believe that skepticism is health, which is why I asked the question I did as I find it hard to believe that you can look at pictures such as those provided by Chelle Choi, Tiger Lilly, and Stilettos, just to name a few, and honestly claim you see zero difference. So I asked for clarification. Not sure where your assumption of pending accusations came from.

Oh and just to be clear, the placebo effect is when a genuine change actually occurs, but not due to the treatment (or lack thereof) someone is receiving. So this effect in NBE would still result in an increase in breast size. So before accusing me of sticking my head in the sand, kindly get your terms correct.

okay, sorry if got off on a bad foot.....i can be a bit defensive at times ..sorry

Anyways, just was wondering about concrete results.
Ive read many posts about wanting to go from a B cup to a D cup.
Thats a huge difference, has anyone had that kind of result?
If so...then thats great and i would gladly jump on the NBE program.

Im not really seeing it in any pictures though....a couple pictures show a little improvement in breast size, but usually there is some different lighting conditions at play, making it hard to tell if its the breast that changed or just the lighting.

Has anyone considered designing common standards to follow such as distance from the lens, angle of the lens, light direction and angle, front, side, 45deg, standard measurements to accompany each picture since pictures to not show some differences such as density, or projection (if front shot)?

This is one of the reasons that pics are not always a good indicator of growth. Sometimes the tape shows it but the camera does not. Going by the numbers, or sizes, is more of an honor system but is a better indicator of success.

Hi Jane

I’m afraid I’m with BooBoo here – I honestly don’t know how you can have looked at all the before/after pictures and not seen any difference. Granted, some girls’ growth doesn’t look like a huge amount in a two dimensional photograph – but it’s measurable, as most have documented on their programme pages. I’m sure girls wouldn’t have posted before/after pictures if they did not believe themselves that they had grown. Off the top of my head, I would say to look again at pictures of Milani, BellaBB, Epiphany, Amber and Tiger Lily; they have had pretty substantial increases.

I have been reading this forum for a few weeks now, and started my own programme a week ago. The site has a WEALTH of information, and I know I’ve only just scratched the surface; I’m finding out new things every day. My advice, for what it’s worth, is that you read, read, and read some more. You will find pretty much every answer you might need on here. You will also discover the science behind the various different methods of NBE employed by the users of the forums and I think that, coupled with the pictures and programme pages (which most use as a diary), should be sufficient evidence for you. I am a firm believer, however, that if you don’t have faith in what you are doing you are unlikely to get results. The mind is powerful, so perhaps you have a point in mentioning a placebo effect. If this is the case, you might have to work on the scepticism...

I hope that helps.

Lizzie

okay, so i admit in some of the pictures, i see a VERY slight increase in breast size...but....

Its always such a slight difference that i could also just as easily be the lighting difference between pictures, or something as simple as weight gain.

Again, im not looking to rain on anyone's parade, just asking questions....

I have read many times on this forum that people are looking to go from a B to a D and other such large changes.

What i see in the pics though is certainly no B to D transformation. At best, i have seen maybe a small B go to a larger B....or small A to large A...etc.

I was just hoping for some results that are unmistakable......
its like, you know how whenever there is a picture of bigfoot or a u.f.o, its always blurry and out of focus, and thus open to interpretation and not conclusive?

Before i start something like this, i was just hoping to see something, or hear something a little more conclusive. I dont think its that much to ask, afterall, there is no shortage of people on this forum. Surely, SOMEBODY must have had a result that is unmistakable, right?
I know asking these kind of hard questions may make me the forums new pariah, but im after information, not trying to make friends right?
If i make friends, that would be great, but as a woman of science, i gotta be skeptical.

Jane,

If you're going by lighting and angles of pictures, then look at Bella's pictures, comparing her first shot, to the current C shot. I don't know how you could mistake not seeing a measurable difference there... As well as Milani. Her pictures are all mono-tone, so shadowing shouldn't have too huge an effect (in my own pictures which I don't have posted, I take them in black and white to avoid this problem of lighting differences, while standing the same distance away, in the same place, every time - I suggest you do the same if you're ever to start NBE). I see growth in all the pictures, but those one's meet your criteria, lighting-wise.

Whether you should embark on NBE depends on what your expectations are. I think a lot of people are not educated about bra sizes. Like, if you're a 32A, you can't grow to a 36C unless you put on tons of weight to increase your underbust/ribcage area to be that weight. If you're a 32A, you generally grow to be a 32B/C/D, which doesn't look the same as a 36/B/C/D. Also, I've been around a while and haven't seen a ton of people grow 2-3 cups, but these people DO exist. And not everyone has a picture posted for their own reasons. Check personal program pages and compare their before stats with current stats, then ask yourself if the increase they've attained in the time it took them would be satisfactory enough for you.

If you do decide to start a program, check to find out if you have any hormonal imbalance first. I had one to begin with, but I didn't educate myself enough plus at the time, there wasn't as much info about it. So I wasted a good year or more doing a program that wasn't right for me, although it did give me some growth anyway. If you're unsure about your symptoms, do a saliva test so that you don't go wasting your money on herbs you don't need. Take a before picture for yourself because it's easy to forget how you looked before.

Measuring yourself is always a good idea, but I do think it can be an inaccurate indicator of growth. I find it hard to do because if the measuring tape isn't completely level everytime, you can get huge differences in numbers. So when someone writes that they've grown a cm, I'm always in awe as to how they can be sure/how they were able to measure so accurately. I just judge growth by how they fill in my hands, and trust the tape measurer only when the difference is huge.
Also buy a starting reference bra to try on for when you feel you might have growth, and don't wear it often so it won't get stretched. I'm always shocked when I try on old bras and see that there's no way I can fit them anymore! It's uplifting for when you feel like you've hit a roadblock in your growth. I've only grown one cup through trial and error (that's why I don't have a personal program page, I don't feel like I've found the right mixture of herbs yet), which isn't a lot, but for ME, that's decent growth and I'm pretty happy with how they look now.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

Ohh and for reference, I haven't gained a single pound since starting NBE. And I'm super underweight (93lbs, 5'4-5'5") so NBE can work even if you have low BMI, but your chances are much better if you have a higher BMI

Take a look at Jacka-b's you cant say that it isnt a HUGE difference for me that is amazing and one of if not the best example on here. You can also tell its the same person by the position of the moles/freckles.

Surf's pictures anyone? That's like 3 cupsizes increase (arround AA to arround B, on the eye). Tigerlily's at least 2 cupsizes. Faerycat, 2 cupsizes (but she started almost flat btw), not to mention a huge asymetry improvement.

I would say that many pictures show enoguh of an increase to be able to say without a doubt that it's ther, taking into account the lightning and the general inaccuracy of a 2d picture. If you don't see it I seriously think your scepticism is interferating with your judgement.

From my observations of being here for years and hearing many testimonies, I'd say not most girls get 3 cupsizes, but most do get at least 1. Maybe that's not much to you but to many girls it is and they are willing to do NBE for that.

As for the placebo theory, the mind deffinitely does affect progress in many cases, some girls even say they feel that positive thinking and mind techniqes were cruicial for their growth, but that's not all of it. The theory on herbs explains perfectly how herbs can cause breast growth (if you don't know it do research), not to mention suction, a tecnhique also used in NBE, has been scientifically proven to cause tissue growth expansion.

Honestly what I think is, is that if you're such a "woman of science" then do what science dictates. GET IMPLANTS. Depending on your age, weight, current health, NBE may not work for you at the current time frame that you plan to set. In addition, NBE is a lot about positive attitude, NOT tricking one's self, but actually believing in what they're doing and moving forward with it. It seems you have a lot of negativity towards it, so before any growth can occur, best to do an emotional cleansing. Just my two cents. Like I said, implants may be the only option for you if herbs don't do the job well enough. I think that for the women on here to grow even one cup or even a few inches and keep it for years to come is substantial enough to me to know that herbs, massage, and a positive attitude do work. If I get my C-cup out of this program, great. With that goal in mind, I press forward.

You guys are being pretty defensive and borderline obnoxious to someone who's asking a legitimate question. Yes, not a lot of pictures really show all that much growth, and some look influenced by the position of the camera and lighting, which -- as anyone who's tried taking pictures of themselves will attest -- is almost impossible to get exact every time, especially when you change rooms or whatnot.

That said, some pictures are pretty convincing. Bottom line is NBE is extremely difficult, and very few of us have experienced any visible growth. Notice I said "difficult," and not "impossible." But please, keep that sense of skepticism. It'll serve you well.

Hi Jane,

I am all for skeptics. Healthy skepticism will steer us clear of many troubles in life. That being said, I am not sure that your skepticism is helpful to you here. After all - what exactly are you risking to try NBE?

_________________________________

"...i am wondering is, does anyone have any measureable results from using NBE?"

Yes, obviously. If it were even a millimeter difference it would be measureable. Since many women increase in cup sizes the effects are far from just slight. Although there are many who achieve little to no gain, many also increase by 1 - 3 cup sizes.


_______________________________________________

"...I dont really see any changes in any of the pictures that have been posted."

Really, in ANY of the pictures? You don't see ANY changes in ANY of the pictures? You looked at Surf's pictures and you didn't see any change? Sure, many of the pictures don't show that much change. Most post a progress where the changes that occur are slight going from picture to picture. If you compare the start photo to the last photo the changes become rather clear.

______________________________________

"Are you gals sure that the breast enhacements you have experience arent just a result of the placebo effect, or simply wishful thinking?"

In other words "Aren't you all fools?..." ... lol. I understand you have just started to read this thread, but talk about missing the point. The women here are seeking a way to change themselves without resorting to surgery. In some cases the changes are very profound physically. There are plenty of accounts of growth of 2 or more cup sizes - and yes, most of these are not backed up with photos - but few of us really care about that. Also, there is a very healing effect for those who participate in this forum. We learn to put our breasts into perspective. Several women have posted accounts of becoming satisfied with who they were and feeling a release from the mania of needing bigger breasts.

Transformations of all types have occurred in the participants of this forum.

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"Does anyone have any more concrete evidence that this stuff works?"

Whether you believe the results that have been created from NBE or not is inconsequential to anyone but you. You have seen the photos and to your 'skeptical' mind they do not constitute proof. You could easily read the accounts of the women of their growth, but you could say they were just making it up.

Although I want you to be healthy and make choices that will be the best for you, I will not lose any sleep if you decide that NBE is a bunch of bunk and we are all a bunch of 'wishful thinking' women. I am not going to waste any time trying to argue you into believing. If it really is that much of a big deal to you that the pictures those brave women have posted do not constitute any 'measurable' results then I guess you are not right for NBE.

I was not afraid of failure when I first started NBE. I was however a 'nothing cup'. The center of my breastbone stuck out further than my breasts. I was what the saying 'two peas on an ironing board' was meant to convey. That was back in 2006. Today I have some very nice B cups and even though I am on a brief hiatus from NBE for the last few months for hormone reasons my enhancements have stayed. Not only did my breasts increase in size, but my butt has become a legend (Just yesterday a woman - a dance instructor who sees scores of beautiful dance enhanced butts - broke off a conversation with a friend of mine to say to me "I just have to say you have got the greatest looking butt!" --Ahhhhh Maca ).

So, Jane -I have thoroughly enjoyed my journey with NBE. My mind is free from all its self loathing it carried for 40 plus years. My breasts are cute, firm and bouncy - and someday they will be C cuppers. My butt runneth over ... lol. I am one happy person.

I hope you can be happy as well as skeptical. I don't choose to post photos. You will have to find your 'concrete' somewhere else.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

I'm gonna go ahead and explain why Surf's pictures are probably not going to convince a skeptic. Her arms are raised in the first two. If I raise my arms up, my boobs are going to look smaller, too.

Ive seen a lot of people saying to check out Surf's pictures.....
Where are they, I have looked up and down the pictures and dont see anyone with that name?
Are her pictures posted somewhere more elusive?

Edit > Find > "Surf"

Oh and how about FrostedShuggarcookies' pictures?: http://www.breastnexus.com/anonymous2.html

No they're not naked but that looks like 2-3 cups to me. It would be quite a coinscidence if all pictures that show an increase would be either due to ligtning, raised arms or fake.

Oh and as for big sucess stories, Beth doesn't have her pictures posted anymore, but I think she reported growing like 3 cupsizes, likewise jellyboobs 4 or even 5 cupsizes.

Those still aren't 100% convincing, but I believe BellaBB's are.

Jane----you do have a right to ask questions----we all do.I had plenty of questions when I first started NBE.But,you are setting yourself up for failure in NBE because you do not believe in it.You cannot have a negative mind about it and expect to get growth.You may not see increases of 2-3 cup sizes because most of us are still on our journey.These are pics made before,during,and after.Some people are completely done with their NBE,as they reached a size they are happy with.
How can you look at Eve's pics and not see a substantial difference? You need to get glasses if you don't.Tiger Liliy's as well.Also,I have posted pics and I don't need to measure to know I have had good growth.I choose not to measure because I can tell by the way my bra fits,and the way they feel.I try not to dwell on it.They do not look majorly different from my front view,as I was round and wide in circumference before NBE,BUT if you look at my side view,you can not argue with my outward growth.My boobs are definitely meatier.Yes,I took my pics in a different room because I take them where I can get privacy,whatever room it may be at the time.Different room or not,you can definitely see the difference in my side-views.I was damn near flat in the first 2.Plus,the 2nd set of pics from the front view,look at my nipples.They are totally different sizes.So were my breasts.One was bigger than the other.In the 3rd set from the front view,my nipples and breast size evened out and they just look meatier.I am now starting to fill out at the top.
You are not going to get a 3-cup size increase from NBE in 2 months time,nor 6 months time for that matter.It took Eve 18 months to go up 2 cup sizes.It takes about 4 years for breasts to fully form during puberty.Basically,with NBE,you are putting yourself back into puberty,and it is going to take a LONG while to get the size you want.If you are looking for a B to D increase in 2-3 months time-----NOT GONNA HAPPEN! If you want results that substantial that fast-----go get implants! That will be the only way to do this.If you don't want to put in the time and effort and patience-----and FAITH-------then you won't get natural results.Just take a look at my quote below-----so true!

~~What you think about,you bring about~~

Mel C

Okay, so here is my question.

If only one of the photos is 100% convincing just what do you think was the problem with the other photos?

I mean if you compare the photos to what is being written in the program pages, the women who are posting the photos are showing the evidence of what is usually and inch or more of growth.

Is the problem poor photo journalism? Poor lighting, poor angles, different angles? In my mind this amateur photo business makes the accounts all that more believable. Upon reading the program then looking at the photo I can usually see the difference being described.

Apparently, for most people the gain of a cup size is not that much of a photographic difference. I am sure that all of us have seen the pictures of the before and after breast surgeries. The lighting and the angle is perfect to show the difference and yes - shoving a bag of fluid under the breast tissue or under the chest muscle does show up very well. It looks bizarre in my opinion.

What we see when we see a natural enlargement of the breast is far more subtle. It does not project out just one way like the implants do. There is an increase in the total mass of the breast, which is why many women report their breasts feeling heavier or filling out the bra more. Photos will not show the total volume increase as well as they show the artificial projection of the breast via an implant.

What those who are saying the photos don't show much growth are really remarking about is that a natural breast does not look like an implant breast. Natural breast growth does not project out very much in most women (Erica's did and as I recall she was accused of having implants... lol. So did Beth's in her bra and she was accused of having implants too).

I have marveled at the overall shape change to my own breasts. The photos I have do show it, but the 'before' views when I had little growth show a breast whose entire volume was tiny and the current views show a breast whose volume is much, much larger. My breasts do not project very much, but the volume under the nipple and to the sides of the nipple became much wider. To me my own photos do not even look like the same person - and I am sure if I ever posted them that is what people would say. Would my photos be the concrete evidence you are looking for? I doubt it, even though I have grown at least 3 cup sizes (aaaa to B). B cup breasts just don't look that large on me.

So, are pictures going to convince someone 100% beyond all doubt that NBE works. No. And it wouldn't matter anyway. You can be as convinced as you want, but someone else's growth does not mean that you will grow.

NBE is a personal journey to find out what it takes for your breasts to grow larger. You can do a herb for herb identical routine to someone else and have absolutely no results even if they had amazing results. NBE is about finding what hormone situation you are in, what mental state you are in, what your genetic potential is and how persistent and patient you are.

NBE will never be right for every woman. But it is absolutely right for those who are willing to try it.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

It's well known that suction methods can create a temporary enlargement of several cupsizes. Then no pictures are 100% convincing? It's not the information itself, but how reasonably you evaluate the information what brings you to the truth.

Jane, you are way too controversial for this forum.

I recall asking questions about the safety behind taking so much estrogen, and my posts got deleted from the forum. I guess, at least you can communicate on here and not get your messages deleted. There's nothing wrong with talking about differing points of view, especially regarding empirical research on the prolonged effects of estrogen use in older women and cancer. No big boobs are worth that. Why don't we try some positive thinking about the self rather than the boobs - what a concept?!

Samantha

Hi,Samantha.I agree with you.If not on board with NBE and just want to be a naysayer and put down all the women on here who have had substantial,subtle growth-----get off the boat! Sorry.I feel protective of my fellow forum friends.Even if I have not communicated with them.Alot of those pics inspired and motivated me and has kept me going because I DO see growth and I am one that is having it.

Now,your question is totally different.You were just wanting to know about any prolonged use side effects and you needed to put your mind at ease or find another routine that did not involve the herbs.When I first started posting back in late Feb.,I was using the dreaded Latavi as the base in my program.It is not regarded of too fondly here,but it was working for me.I quit just earlier this month due to financial reasons and modified my routine.There were posts I made that I thought had been deleted and even came out and said so-------but I was wrong.I had forgot to login or my computer had kicked me off while I was typing my posts.All my posts used to be MASSIVE.It would show up like a day later.I had to hang my tail between my legs and apologize.I felt like a dumbass.Maybe that has happened to you? Go back and look for your posts with the search.Just put your name in.Usually when they have been deleted by Eve,she will post it.I remember one girl bickering and being beligerent with Moon,and Eve put a post up saying it had been deleted.

Don't let that stop you posting,sweetie.Maybe it was just a fluke with your computer.Seriously,some things of mine(not just on here) are somewhere frozen in cyberspace.My computer used to kick me off and piss me off,especially after a massive post.By the way,do you take herbs,or are you on another program? Good luck!

~~What you think about,you bring about~~

Mel C

Sorry but I don't believe anyone's posts got deleted for questioning safety of taking estrgenic herbs. Unless you were exceedingly insulting and abusive in the same post and got deleted because of the latter. This has to be the least strictly moderated forum I've ever seen and it doesnt happen very often that a post gets deleted, basically the only times I know of it happening was spammers and extremely abuseve posts. Not to mention the question of safety has been asked a milion times before and it never got deleted, but always answered.

And yes, if you aren't logged in your posts don't show up right away cause a moderator has to approve them, but they don't get deleted or rejected.

Moon & Mel,

Sounds like it was a misunderstanding then, and perhalps I was not logged in and thought my post had gone through, when in fact it had not. Oops! :)

I'm not trying to be a naysayer, and I'm not saying it's shallow to want larger breasts, as I too am interested in the NBE programs. It's just that I'm very careful and try to be smart about what I put into my body. I'm trying to understand some of the rationale behind the herb advise being given to women on this board.

I have been using a product called Bust Fuel for a about 2 months now and am seeing some results. My plan is to not take that for more than a few more months, regardless. It has most of the common herb ingredients that are known to help with breast enhancement and I only take the recommeded amount per the manufactures.

My concern is this: I notice members recommending taking MUCH, MUCH more than the prescribed amount by the company or whoever made the herb combinations, and for prolong periods of time. Although this advise may very well work with temporary or permenant breast enahcement, who is to say it's safe? The jury is still out on this I think. I've heard of research which states that prolong use of estrogen in older age is not healthy, and can even cause cancer.

I am curious to learn more about alternative NBE methods, which do not rely heavily on increasing estrogen levels. I'm doing protein shakes, breast exercises, message, and eating some of the foods you guys have recommended. I guess the bottom line to me is, if you're not a medical doctor or trained in alternative medicine, I really think it only responsible for you to state that you don't know the side effects or safety issues of your recommendations. I don't even think the doctors do. So be careful!

Samantha

Commercial products companies put such low doses in products to make it cheaper for them - that's also why they don't work for 99% of people. And the duration of taking them they ''recomend'' is shorter because they are basically lying about the effectiveness of their product. Bust Fuel is one such product that has very poor feedback. If I'm not mistaking it's actually the same as the dreaded Breast Gain Plus, Breast Success and its many other names.

By eating foods you'll still need to get the same ammount of phytoestrogens into you to grow as with a pill. Foods are better because they also give you other healthy nutritients, but the ammount of phytoestrgens is likewise high.

Herbs have been used for thousands of years in traditional medicine and if they caused cancer it would have been noted. Instead Asian women who get a lot more psytoestrgens in their diet have a lower incidence of cancers than westren women. I have never seen a study that showed that phytoestrgens could increase the risk of cancer, only opinions based on lack of understanding about how hormones and plant hormones work. Mainly failing to note that phytoestrgens are much much weaker than the body's own estrgen.

After getting good knowledge and information on herbs, I think the reasonable judgement is that herbs are safe to use, my personal jugement for me at least. One ought to consider their own body and potential underlying risks. But if we were to avoid everything that could potentially be harmful we ought to stay in a glass bubble. In any case we need good knowledge and information before making any opinions, positive or negative.

Hi Samantha,

Time and time again we have counseled to use the least amount of an herb that produces the desired effect. Moon has explained what stalling is many times and how too much of a substance can swamp receptors.

It is true that most manufactured products contain very little active ingredients. Compare the amount of herbs in your product to what is found in wonderup. (can't remember myself, but it has come up again and again so a search will get you that info). Wonderup has much more in each of its capsules and has a good track record of being safe and effective. Some women who ended up buying a cheaply made product with low herb amounts will double or triple the dosage to the levels found in Wonderup. This is not overdosing - this is making the best of a bad choice.

Non herbal NBE is commonly discussed. There are specific sections on the main page that go into great detail about it. Massage, hypnosis, magnets and suction method have been very successful. You will find more about them on their specific links in the forum. This main forum talks about all the types of NBE but mostly herbal NBE.

You will continue to read accounts of those who are doing it wrong - IE using too much phytoestrogen and creating a hormonal havoc. Anything that brings a person out of hormonal balance can be a problem for health. Women who are already starting out with a hormonal imbalance should avoid using an herbal NBE plan that will make their situation worse. We talk about this all the time. All the time. You may not have read those posts but there is one up at the top at the moment that is all about balancing hormones.

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" I guess the bottom line to me is, if you're not a medical doctor or trained in alternative medicine, I really think it only responsible for you to state that you don't know the side effects or safety issues of your recommendations. I don't even think the doctors do. So be careful!"
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Medical doctors and those trained in alternative medicine are people. Just like you and me - people. They are not some sort of all knowing expert in everything about human biology. They might pay attention in class and they might daydream. Guess what you call the person who graduates from medical school with the lowest grade? You call them Doctor.

Doctors make all sorts of mistakes regarding their patient's health all the time. The prescribe medications that KILL people on a daily basis. Do I blindly take the information my doctor tells me as the gospel truth - no way. I research to find out if they are correct. They are my consultant - not faultless. As far as NBE goes they are in the dark.

You will not find a greater accumulation of NBE knowledge than this forum. As a collective we do our very best to advice safe and effective NBE. It can also be a recount of bad effects and misfortunes of improper NBE. As a whole this forum has it all.

Not everyone reads every post - I don't and I doubt you do either. It is all hit or miss. Nobody passes a test in order to post on here. However, if the knowledgeable members catch wind of someone giving out bad advice they are quick to correct it.

I do know the side effects and safety issues of the recommendations that I make. I have done quite a lot of research into what I recommend. However -if I recommend something to you, you should not just blindly trust what I say. Research what you are given here. The most common advice we ever give to newcomer's is to read and research.

When someone comes on here and says "Tell me what to do" we say - read the newcomer's section. When they ask "Will this work for me?" we say 'Who knows - it is different for everyone'.

If you feel that there is bad advice given or you feel a concern then do what you did here and voice it. You are allowed to comment on any post (login in first... lol). If you want to be the herbal police officer then read every post. Nobody is stopping you. But don't assume we are ALL 'doing it wrong' when you don't have the whole picture. If someone posts bad advice - do something about it. Be specific.

I am not going to start putting disclaimers on every post I make. This is a discussion forum. The disclaimer is already implied.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

(**okay, just this once.... The above rant is completely and totally the subjective opinion of the poster and any usefulness of the rant is entirely up to the opinion of the reader)

Moon and Waxingmoon------once again,good reasoning and advice.

Samantha-----yes,feel free to voice.That is what a forum is about.For me,I feel safe taking these herbs.If you don't feel safe taking them for a long time,that is your right.Like I say,always go with your gut.After stopping herbs,just keep doing massages,apply heat after massages,keep up the protein,etc.You can still visualize-----mind-over-matter counts for NBE------,hypnosis,magnets,nooglebrry,etc.

Some people do no herbs at all.That is up to you.You know your body and concerns better than anyone.And yes,do research on everything.If you decide to cut them off after a certain time frame,you can still continue to grow with other methods.You can even do boobie foods.Good luck!

You will get support no matter what method you choose or choose not to do.

~~What you think about,you bring about~~

Mel C

Where did Jane go??