Airgun Hunter Juniors is a here for the purpose of young hunters around the world to share their experiences with one another. You can post your pictures and share your ideas and maybe even meet some hunting buddies.
by rich (Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
I noticed that the last post here was a good while ago. Are there no young hunters here? I wanted to ask a question regarding my friend's son who wants a BB gun. He is 11 years old. I am 40 plus years old and do not remember about BB guns, although I had a few many years ago. Can someone help me? Any young hunters out there?
the a Red Ryder (280fps) or a Daisy Grizzly Single Pump Pnematic (320fps), but if you wanted to be easy on your pocket you can get a Red Ryder for $17-$20 bucks at Academy, hehehe. A Grizzly would cost about $28-$30 bucks at Academy if I remeber correctly. Both of those would be good first guns.
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(Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
Hey justin, I see Smokey is still out hunting with you! My wife saw his picture and said, "He is a beautiful cat." I told her about the retrieving he had done for you and she was blown away!
and Skyler, Thanks as well! I figured I would support the Jr board a bit because I heard it was dead here. Lets kick it up a notch, as Emrild would say.
I wonder if he will ever do a dish on his show, "Cajun Squirrel".
im 13 but iv bin sniping squirrels,crows,grackle,coon,skunks,sparrow,chipmunks,opposums,and all the other good stuff since i was 10. i have a fully moded 2250 from mountain air, 25 cal. 30ft/lbs heres a pic. of it
hey guys just wondering, i have a squirrel problem like chewing on my garbage cans, raiding the bird feeders and chewing the wood on my gaxebo and i was wondering what would happen if i got caught by the police or something? im in New Jersey and im in a neighborhood (but the people know i ahve airguns) just wondering what can happen thanks.
Hi guys, as some of you know i was thinking about making a new type of 9 mm softcast/ PURE LEAD ammo available.
Here we go: Am pleased to tell that they'll be produced!
I'll start off with truncated flat point ammo, with the following spec's:
-100 grain
-5 available calibers; .355 / .356 / .357 .358 / .358+ (.358 plus is unsized, diameter is approximately .3582
-.450 overall length, which makes this ammo compatible with even the shinsung/career 707 9 mm. Ultra (mag will take 4)
-available both with or without lube.
When i first posted about this i got quite a few e mails of guys wanting to test all calibers, to see what works best in their specific gun.
Since i only take minimum orders of 200 bullets, but do understand that people don't want to start of with a pile of lead, i'm willing to make samplers; 50 bullets of each caliber, minimum of 4 calibers.
I won't take any money untill i've received my batch of 4000, which will hopefully arrive by wednesday next week, (if production & shipping goes well) but you're more then welcome to put yourself on a pre- order list. I'll contact you when the bullets have arrived & packed,ready for shipment. E mail me at vincentvangerven@gmail.com
I looked up what the freight costs, which is 9.80 dollars for a USPS flat rate box, which will take up to 20 pounds.
Bullets are 12 cents each, minumum order 200.
With my order i get a few .45 caliber samplers. Haven't been able to test these, since i haven't got a .45, but when i've got more info i'll tell. Same with the .50 caliber. Am also working on 90 grain 9 mm. roundnose ammo.
its hard to compare thoose two guns because ones a rifle break barrel and the other is a co2 handgun. for cheapness i would go for the quest because u dont have to buy co2, can shoot in cold weather, and better accuracy because its a rifle. the handgun can have a LOT of modifications to it to make it more acurate, faster, and more. in my opinion i would go with the rifle because u dont have to keep spending money on co2 canisters. just my .02
"Life is all about ass; you're either covering it, laughing it off, kicking it, kissing it, busting it, trying to get a piece of it, or behaving like one."
"Life is all about ass; you're either covering it, laughing it off, kicking it, kissing it, busting it, trying to get a piece of it, or behaving like one."
if u have the money to spend on c02 and mods then go with the 2250. ask on the other forum too they will probly be more help.
"Life is all about ass; you're either covering it, laughing it off, kicking it, kissing it, busting it, trying to get a piece of it, or behaving like one."
"Life is all about ass; you're either covering it, laughing it off, kicking it, kissing it, busting it, trying to get a piece of it, or behaving like one."
by rich (Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
Hi guys
I noticed that several posts were made stating how many feet per second (fps) a gun should have in order to hunt squirrel, or be considered a powerful gun. Some answers were 550 fps, 700 fps and so on. This is not a good way to state the power, especially if you are not stating the caliber. Is it .177, or .22, or .25? I don't know. Well, certainly a .22 caliber pellet traveling at 550 feet per second can be used to hunt, but maybe not a .177 caliber pellet at that same speed.
This type of question and answer is similar to this senario:
Q. "How tall is a 12 year old?"
A. "A 12 year old is 70 lbs."
The question is ambiguous because all 12 year are not the same height.
The answer is just as ambiguous, and incorrect in comparing weight to height. Well, this is very similar to what is happening when you state power in terms of feet per second. It is ambiguous and incorrect.
A good answer to the question, "How fast does my gun need to shoot to kill a squirrel?" can only be given once the question is restated to "What amount of force (fpe) is needed to shoot and kill a squirrel?"
There is a nifty tool linked at the top of this page called ballistics calculator. It takes away the pain of doing the math and helps you understand the difference between fps and fpe. Try punching in different pellet weights for a fixed velocity and you will soon realize that "feet per second" is not a good way to determin anything unless you also state pellet weight. And like someone else mentioned here, manufacturers can escalate the fps rating, making fps even more useless.
I too have recommended a fps instead of a fpe and I would like to thank you for correcting me and others. I have a ballistics calculator and I need to use it.
For those of you who don't have a ballistics calculator there is one in the left hand side of the picture at the top of the page. I used to use that calculator before I had Chairgun and it worked good for changing fps to fpe and yards into meters and a few other useful things.
by
(Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
Hi Justin
I think you made an error. You wanted to say the reverse, I know. You recommended FPE instead of FPS, right? It is easy to mix them up so don't sweat it. As long as you understand that FPS doesn't paint a full picture.
BTW Justin, I now have a cat on my lot who sits upon the logs and hunts for varmints. He is taking my business! We are going to have a talk. Maybe he will share them with me or become a retriever like Smokey!
I accidentally said the vise sersa of what I meant to put, lol.
If your going to train the cat it is very simple: shoot a bird (like a sparrow to start out) and throw it in front of the cat and let him go get the bird then call the cat to you and get him to let the bird go for you to have it. Very soon the cat will get used to runnig to get a bird or squirrel when it hears them hit the ground and retrive it to you with out you having to command him to do so. It isn't very hard to train them to retive at all, so I hope you teach the cat to retrive birds and squirrels and have your self a good hunting companion.
If this is a stray then you can easily gain it's trust with a bit of canned wet cat food and lead him in your house with the food after a few days of feeding by putting the food in your house close to the door and having a string attached to the door to close it. It is very important when getting a stray to gain it's trust first and not just trap it and put it inside because the cat will not trust you and will take a longer time to warm up to you. Have fun Rich and I hope you can find a good hunting companion within that cat.
by
(Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
Justin, thank you much for the tip. I am not a cat person. I have had dogs all my life. If I do make a friend, I won't be able to keep that cat in my home because of allergies. I do like that he is in the area to catch mice if there are any, and other critters. Maybe tomorrow I can take my camera outside to catch a photgraph of him. He must belong to someone. How can I tell is he is a stray or just wandering a bit from home?
Thanks again for the training tip... it is good to know. And I'll be sure to get a few cans of wet food for him.
And I calculated the max range in this thread... I could not have done that without your help. Did you get Chargun working OK?
tell if the cat is a stray or if some one owns him. I would just look around the neighborhodd and see if I see him go to any one's house or if he is sort of skinny this would usually mean no one owns the cat and it is having a hard time finding food.
I've gotten Chairgun to work for me very easily because it looks confusing but once you get used to it, it is quite easy to understand and if your having problems using it there is a help option on there that will help you some what.
and some of it is still confusing to me but the rest looks confusing but I found it to be very easy to understand after I used the program a bit. So if you have any questions about Chairgun I would direct them twards Skyler who has alot of experience with Chairgun.
about 200fps higher than a .22 needs...such as a Pigeon needs about 800 fps (177) to kill a pigeon with a chest shot humanely. In .22 you would need about 600... Of course you could get all indepth with it, but that is a simple quick way of seeing things...
by rich (Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
Right Spencer... thats why you are needed here. Set the example by referring to fpe because the advertizers all fool us, or try to. Does your S1K shoot premier heavies at the same speed as Gamo Hunters? Are both traveling out of your gun at 1,000 fps? No way!
The RWS P5 pistol advertises 700 fps and that is rediculous. It isn't a bad pistol (I own it) but the only way it can get 700 fps is with ultra light high velocity pellets under the best of conditions. So it is a statistic that can be easily fudged. FPE or actual energy is a lot harder to fudge and better describes the ability to transfer energy into a varmint's head.
BTW... does anyone know how many foot pounds are required to effectively dispatch a squirrel? How about a racoon?
And Spencer, how many foot pounds can your S1K produce from the muzzle?
Hmmmm... you SHOULD know this. I am putting you on the spot because you are smart.
With the standard 7.9gr copperheads. That is about 15fpe, enough to take coons or Oppossum from close ranges...here is the calculator link... http://www.airguns.net/calculators.html
If your gun is rated at 1000fps and is a springer, It probably does around 900 sith 7.9ers. Thanks for promoting the JR rich.
by
(Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
No need to thank me because I am having the time of my life here. You guys are really cool. But Spencer, how many foot lbs does it take to drop a squirrel? I want to know, and I really don't know off the top of my head. The reason I want to know is so that we can next determin the energy drop at different distances, and then know the effective range of rifle X with pellet P. I am going to look now to see if I can find a reliable source for this information.
415fps minimum in .177 cal for squirrels so let's say it is 415 fps with 7.9gr if you calculate that you get about 3fpe. So 3fpe minimum for squirrels in a lethal area, I wouldn't use just 3fpe on a squirrel but that is the minimum for them.
by
(Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
That was an excellent answer. So a 15 fp muzzle energy gun shoots squirrels effectively for a distance such that the velocity of the pellet remains 3 fpe or greater. So how do we figure that out? can you handle this one? I bet.... if you use a ballistics program like chargun or another. Do you know of one?
a link on the Adult forum and I don't remeber it but I will do a search on there to see if I can find it. Until then here is a link to the Ballistics calculator before I used Chargun.
by
(Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
According to the program, an 8.3 grn pellet with a muzzle velocity of 900 fps should retain 3 fpe at 110 yards. So there is your answer guys. Now this is theoretical and I might not have accounted for proper BC, wind and stuff but you get the idea. That is COOL. Thanks for your help Justin and Spencer.
Which shoots 525...I think that that means 3fpe at POI, and that just may mean kill, not humane...I would say at least 4 at POI for a humane kill, and thats what I think everyone wants...
by
(Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
you ducked out when Justin and I were doing the work last night. I asked you a question but you were gone. Again, this is just theoretical calculations. I am sure you could kill it with 2 fpe if the shot was placed properly with the right pellet type. I want you to use chairgun, the ballistics calc and find out exactly how many fpe you hit that squirrel with and not guess.... because you completely defeated the purpose here. You just now said, "Which shoots 525" after I did an entire lecture on how meaningless that number is! You duck out and come back into the thread with "Which shoots 525"? Why don't you just say "go away rich, we'll say anything we want here". Or maybe you did not need to post on this subject if you don't want to participate. Or maybe you think I am wrong and you could offer an alternative solution. I can accept any of those responses, but not "Which shoots 525". Not in this thread "FPS Vs. FPE".
Spencer, where is your focus on this thread? HELLOooooooooo? This is why so many arguement ensue, because some do not read the posts before making a followup, or they're too busy bouncing around trying to do 5 things at once. POST RESPONSIBLY and read respectfully or don't post.
Please re-read the entire thread from the top, and when you get to your post stating "Which shoots 525" I want you to stop and think about what you just did. DON'T REPLY because I do not need to hear that. I want to hear how many foot pounds you hit that squirrel in the head with exactly, not maybe... nothing more. You owe me at least that much out of respect for how you just blew off my entire point here. NOTHING ELSE.... just FPE into SQUIRREL'S BRAIN from your Delta at 10 yds. OK!
You are someone who likes to try and help. You can't if you don't know the facts yourself. Here is a chance for you to really know some facts regarding what you can and can use to kill whatever from whatever distance you want... and do it mathematically. Mathematics is the queen of all science.
If you can't or have difficulty, that is OK. That is why I am doing this with you guys. It refreshes my memory and in that process I can help anyone who needs help. In addition, I could be doing something wrong and someone can point that out too. I'd be glad to hear it. But you can't keep saying numbers that have no meaning. When you do that you are telling everyone that you don't know very much. PLEASE re-read the entire thread slowly and think.
In addition, the term "humane" is relative crap. There are people who think eating meat is not humane. What we want is a quick kill, the quickest kill, instant kill. Who cares what any other human thinks. We hunt. They eat McDonalds.
by rich (Premier Login ledlauncher) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
you not posting, but not your reply once you did return. You must read the thread before flinging in your answer. No problem... just pick up where you left off. I see you started a new thread and that is excellent. Do it!
Please try to convince matt to let me stay on the JR because I feel like I must or else Im failing you guys...I think that he has to bann me on everything because Im a problem on the SR, but I wont post there anymore if he lets me stay on here at least...thanks for your help rich...
Hey,if your thinking about buying a new airgun do not get a remignton airmaster 77 I've had two one the seals busted the other won't shoot after 3 shots.Buy Gamo!
is a lemon i got one of those a while ago for my first airgun and its really accurate and quite powerfull, ive taken chippers out at about 20 yrds. with open sights.
I would not say at least 12 pds for rabbits. 12 is a alot. Rabbits go down humainly with 9 pds at 10 yards. With 12pds you can take tree rats at 25 yards.
A equivalent would be a .177 8.44gr pellet with muzzle velocity of 500FPS. Generating 4.6 foot pounds or 6.3 joules at the muzzle. 500FPS with a 8.44 pellet is an average MV for a stock crosman 1377 pistol with ten pumps.
yes, you do not need a 12FPE gun to take birds, rats & rabbits. A ~4-6 FPE gun will do, as long as you are within 15yards or so you should ok. However you would have to aim at the rabbits head with the kind of power you have and get up close. I would not risk a quartering/body shot. Crows will be every tough to bring down too, unless you get a head-shot. I suspect it's a CO2 or Pump. You can get that gun tuned and get at least another 75+fps. Then you can do a lot better because you have a slight advantage with the .22 caliber..
BTW, I have a Crossman CO2 revolver from the mid-80's w/6" barrel that I used a lot up until the '90's. It was rated/advertised at 485fps w/pellets or 525 w/BB's in .177. I had taken 2 big rats with it at about 10yds and several starlings out to 18yds. Its FPE is not much more than your slower .22.
hey i just got a winchester 800x pellet gun and i have alawys loved to shoot birds out my window but i sited it in and two dove flew in at about 10 yards and i shot one with a beeman crow magnum pellet and it dident die do any of you think you know why it gose 850fps do yall think that might be to slow?
First of all doves are illegal , secondley use gamo magnum pointed pellets for hunting my B 30 cant kill a squirrel humaneley with crow magnums because the penetration sucked . and there actually a hollow point that doesnt mushroom out .
I dont know about your state but in california ringed turtle doves and chinese spotted doves are classified as resident small game and can be shot with an airgun but mouning doves and white winged doves are upland game birds and only under special regulations may be shot with an airgun.
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(Login SifuSkyler) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
Okay, yes, you found half a loophole. unfortunately you didn't read the entire reg book. The introduced doves fall under the same method of take regulations as all other doves, meaning shotgun/archery/falconry only. They are not considered migratory, but our state has imposed regulations on them that match the federal ones.
Hunting is a way of life. If you goto the store and buy a chicken shouldn't you feel as guilty as the man who killed it,besides all you are doing is paying him to kill it,so why not kill it yourself.
Hunting is a way of life. If you goto the store and buy a chicken shouldn't you feel as guilty as the man who killed it,besides all you are doing is paying him to kill it,so why not kill it yourself.
by
(Login SifuSkyler) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
no problem. you are still young. Over time, you will learn all the regs, and the reasoning for their existance. in the mean time, study up, and never trust one sentence of those regs until you have read the entire book. Lots of conflicting regs that cancel each other out in there.
well first where did you hit it and two u wnat to either hit it in the head or way upper cheast if u hit it in the upper cheast it will bleed out very quickly and the one u shot probley died but it just took a few minutes and u couldnt find it soo yeah and where i'm from pigons arn't illegal
At 10 yards and over 800fps with a body shot with anykind of pellet should work on a dove. This is a .177 right? I switched to .22 and never looked back to .177.
hey if anyone knows please message me back but will a .177cal remington bb gun with 700-800ish fps kill a rabbit squirrel or crow? and from how far do you think i will be able to hit it from again please reply if you knwo and thanks
i wouldnt think that they would be because around my area there is so many...sorry for sounding like a jackass also i didnt notice he said that it was a national law
It is a simple "public notice" from the USDA about the availabilty of a document titled "Reducing Pigeon, Starling, House Sparrow, Blackbird, and Crow Damage through an Integrated Wildlife Damage Management Program in the State of New York,"
What it is not:
It is not a list of pest birds that you can shoot with your airgun.
Public Notice
Availability of a Pre-Decisional Environmental Assessment prepared by the U.S. Department of Agriculture titled "Reducing Pigeon, Starling, House Sparrow, Blackbird, and Crow Damage through an Integrated Wildlife Damage Management Program in the State of New York," in consultation with the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation
The U.S. Department of Agriculture, APHIS Wildlife Services (WS) Program in consultation and coordination with the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation has developed a Pre-Decisional Environmental Assessment (PDEA) titled "Reducing Pigeon, Starling, House Sparrow, Blackbird, and Crow Damage through an Integrated Wildlife Damage Management Program in the State of New York." The proposed action is for WS to implement an integrated wildlife damage management program to reduce damage associated with pigeons, starlings, sparrows, blackbirds, and crows to property, agricultural and natural resources, and public health and safety on all land classes in New York where a need exists, funding is available, and a request is received. This PDEA analyzes potential environmental effects of conducting alternative strategies for reducing pigeon, starling, sparrow, blackbird, and crow damage and identifies and analyzes issues and alternative strategies. WS is requesting public comments on this PDEA.
Interested parties may obtain a copy of the PDEA by sending a request along with their name and mailing address to USDA, APHIS, WS, 1930 Route 9, Castleton, NY 12033. For further information you may call (518) 477-4837. Written comments must be postmarked no later than December 29, 2004 to receive full consideration prior to the decision.
I like any man who is willing to face up to his mistakes... it takes a lot of character.
As for legal birds to shoot I would stick with Starlings and Pigeons also English/House Sparrows but several sparrows look similar so study up and make sure!! All three are "introduced species" and are not protected by federal game laws. There are an estimated 400 millions English Sparrows or about 16 million tins of pellets worth !!
actually under depradation laws in california if red winged blackbird are hunting any crops or trees or are in such number to cause a health hazard or other problem the may be taken any way needed with special regulations on poison.
by
(Login SifuSkyler) Airgunhunters message board/moderators
Red winged blackbirds are fully protected in California. The only way you can control their populations is with a DEPREDATION PERMIT issued very reluctantly by the department. Again, know your game laws. Your freedom and hard earned cash are on the line, as well as our ecosystem.
but i mean they are still covered by depredation laws.
Hunting is a way of life. If you goto the store and buy a chicken shouldn't you feel as guilty as the man who killed it,besides all you are doing is paying him to kill it,so why not kill it yourself.
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