I know that he's trying, I know that he ended it to be with me even before I found out. I know that he never wanted me to find out. I know that he made the decision to work on us even before I knew that we were in that terrible of a state that we needed as much work as we do now. I know that he's a rescuing spirit. I know that he rescued me in a sense. I know that he kissed her and told her that he loved her. Even though he says that it meant nothing to him, he cared about her in some strange way. Maybe she is the one for him. Maybe she's the one he needs to rescue and be with at this point in his life. Maybe I need to tell him to just go back to her and help her. I'm beyond helping at this point. I don't want it anymore. I can't stop thinking that my ex (my first H who is long gone, I'm now dealing with my second H) was right...I will never be able to keep any man's interest in me solely. That any man interested in me will run on me. I'm just not that type of a person. And even though my H told me in the beginning years that my ex was wrong, he just proved him right in all aspects of my life within that two and a half week period.

Jid, I respectfully have to say that what your husband said about you not being able to hold anyone's interest solely is BULL! There IS someone for everybody, a real Forever Someone and we may not have found them yet.

Stay. Give up. Stay. Give up. How far along are you again? For me 3 weeks in, it changes more frequently every day.

For me, giving up now could be a mistake. I am going to work on this thing and maybe later my decision could be different. But for me, giving up now before I know for sure would be wrong.

For you? Just keep thinking and talking. Maybe this is not your Forever Man and you need to find him, but who knows maybe he is after all.

Mac

Jid, it would hurt you so much you can't believe! If you give up now without trying, without fighting, if you give in to the pain and the anguish, to the doubts and the darkness, you will never know if you gave up what might have been the best relationship of your entire life. Don't give up on yourself. You didn't make this mess. Don't claim it. Stand up for yourself. Believe in yourself. Look yourself in the eye and tell yourself you are important, you are strong, you deserve to be loved.

I'm sure there are many, many folks here who are much further along than I am who will tell you, if they are still with their spouses, that if they had given up in the early days after Dday they might not be happily married today, or folks who have split with the WS who will tell you that they feel good about giving their marriages their best attempt. Neither group has any doubts about what might have been if only they had stayed and fought the good fight. They know they gave the marriage their best shot.

It sounds like your H is remorseful. At least give him a chance. It's very important that you don't let yourself get exhausted and run down now. It's important to eat right, exercise, get enough rest, find activities you enjoy, take care of your family, treat yourself well. When we are exhausted and run down, we can't think straight under the best of circumstances. When we are exhausted and run down in the atmosphere of affair recovery, our thoughts are all tangled like a bowl of spaghetti.

I'm going on 7 months past Dday, and I go to my first session of IC tomorrow afternoon. In some ways I wish I had started sooner, and in other ways I think it might have been too soon for me, but maybe counseling is something you need to do for yourself.

I am so very sorry you are hurting. I understand.

Huge fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

(((((((((Jid))))))))))))

Your situation sound so much like my own. My H broke off the A before I found out. He had already made a decision to stay in the marriage before I knew of the A. He was already trying and I had no idea what was going on. I thought "wow, he's trying, did he just wake up one morning and say I love my wife and I am going to start treating her better?" Little did I know the real reason for his change in attitude and when I found out everything he had done to improve our realtionship just went right out the window! He had to start from scratch all over again. Even though he had been trying for months prior to d-day, d-day wiped out all of his efforts. H started the process without me, and I had to catch up. By the time I caught up to him he had given up. By the time I fugured out that I wanted to stay he decided he didn't know if he could stay. Seems quite unfair doesn't it? So what I am saying is TRY! Don't give up until you are 100% sure that it will not work. Give it your all and then if you still want to leave you will have known in your heart that you did all you could. It may work out! You owe nothing to you WS but you do owe it to yourself to see what could be if you try. Otherwise you may end up regretting your decision. Me and my H are still trying to work it out and it is almost 10 months past d-day. But the fact that WE are trying give me hope. I do love my H, even though I am angry, hurt, and totally disillusioned, I cannot imagime my life without him.

I also told my H that he should be with the OW and that is who he really wanted. He kept telling me that wasn't true but I didn't believe him. I thought "how can you say you love me and then betray me like this"? After reading many books on the subject I learned a lot about affairs and it helped me to realize it had nothing to do with me and the OW could have been anyone. She was nothing special. I understood things so much better and learned not to personalize it so much. Plus, everyone on these boards were there for me to talk to. They made feel like what I was feeling was normal and I did not feel so all alone. But by the time I figured this out my H was almost out the door. Do not let that happen to you if there is a glimmer of hope that it can work out. Give yourself some more time!

take Care,
Carol~

He had I had a good blow up last night. A bit more came out about the A, but it was good stuff, like I thought that it lasted longer than it did (not that that is necessarily good, but it kept her away from one very important anniversary of ours), and more about how he felt and how she acted.

Then I told him about my "idea" that maybe she was the one for him since it was her who got his attention away from me. He got very, I mean very, upset and told me not to get ideas like that, that it wasn't meant to be more than a good friendship. Of course, you can imagine my comebacks to that comment since they did french kiss!

Then we got into the idea of my not eating and basically starving myself to death. He got even more upset about that one (I probably should have been hospital bound, not in good shape). He had threatened me that if I do not eat and drink today (and he's checking - met him for lunch) then he is going to call in the "professionals" and have me committed. He told me that I was copping out and that he never thought that I would do that, but I told him that I felt as if I was nothing more than an emotional burdon on him and the kids and this way he would be able to get the insurance money and the kids would be okay, they were young enough, they'd be okay (personal experience, my dad died 13 y/ago and my younger brother and sister don't remember him). Thinking back (thanks H2) it was very selfish of me, and not a good thing for at least the kids. So after some time of quiet and reflection, he had sat there in front of me while I was fading into sleepiness and back out again, and began to cry.

He's telling me that he blocks out so much because if he doesn't the pain will overtake him, that if he continues to think about it, then he will be this blubbering idiot every day and not be able to stop crying (we are two very sensitive and emotional people - not sure if it's a good combination). He says that he sat there last year during and after the A and thought "what the hell am I doing?" and "why am I doing this?" He says that he looks back on it and can't believe that he was that same person. He honestly doesn't remember much from last year because he was under so much stress at that time.

He called me a Philadelphia Lawyer last night (not sure exactly what that meant but he said that in a sense it was a compliment) and from all my grilling, I have come to the conclusion that he has been honest with me about the whole thing. He also told me that he can't bear the pain that he has caused me and he tries to block out more so hopefully he will forget it and not be able to relive it when I start asking questions again. That way he won't be able to tell me about it and save me from more pain.

Then he brought up that he can't bear the thought of coming home to a life without me and the kids. That even though he complains about the toys and mess and the mess from packing and how crowded this little house has become, he wouldn't have it anyother way. (Funny, I would have never guessed it.)

Then he starts crying harder. He says that it kills him to know that I would rather be dead than to deal with the pain that he has caused me. And the sole reason why I want to die is him. He said that he couldln't live with himself and that burdon. That's when we started talking about what I need him to do to help me get over this intense pain. I told him that I hurt so much so constantly that I can't bear to live with it anymore. That I can't bear to think that I can't trust him anymore, that I may never trust him again. That I may never have that spark in my heart and soul that I had had for him for so long and that I was proud that after 10 years together it was still there, at least up until Jan 1, and because of these reasons, and the pain that I feel I would rather die. I told him that it felt like someone disemboweled me, slowly taking every organ out and throwing it on the floor. Then someone came along and just threw everything back in and stitched me up. Nothing is in it's original place, sometimes my heart is in my chest, sometimes in my ass, sometimes in my stomach being eaten by stomach acid, and sometimes in my throat. My intestines are all over the place and constricts against my stomach so badly that it makes me not want to eat or drink. That my lungs get squashed and makes it hard for me to breath. And to know that this may not all go back into place, I can't bear the life.

See, he and I had such a strong relationship, and to know that it went this far off kilter, suffocates me in ways that are unimaginable. He feels the same way, but until last night, I would never have known it. I told him that when he is defensive and distant, that I think the worse, that I think that he's feeling bad for her or that he's not wanting this to work out.

I told him that I really needed him to fight for me and work with me, that meant opening up and showing me the worse of him, the worse of his "pain" and helping me come to terms with mine. He also needs to do the books with me so we can learn together. That until he comes to grips with his pain and error in a healthy way, that it will eat away at us as a couple and we will not be repaired. He has agreed to all this.

So, he's making more of an effort, how do I know? There was a note on the seat of the truck for me this morning telling me he loved me. Then at lunch he tells me that she e-mailed him last night and he got it today. He forwarded this note to me at the house. It read: I guess I got the hint, I am so sorry for everthing that I have done. For keep on bothering you, you are not gonna hear anything from me.....sorry...." And that's that. Although, I can't believe that she's completely done. Personally I think that it's a ploy to get him to feel guilty and talk to her.

We'll see. So I have hope and that's keeping me here.

Good for you, Jid. It seems as though he had held back things you needed to hear and finally you did. As much as it hurts, I think you have some hope now.

Wishing you the best!

Huge, HUGE fairy hugs Jid! I'm so glad you shared with your H, and he with you.

fairyfriend

You said so many of the samethings to your H that I said to mine. what grabbed me was that you said "fight for me". I said the EXACT samething and my H ahd no idea what I meant by that. My H did not respond the sameway yours did. My H remained clammed up and distant. I know it is because he feels so guilty, but it is not healthy and not helping me to heal at all. It sends me into a panic and like you, I think the worst, like he doesnt want it to work out because he is not willing to fight for me.

I am glad your H opened up to you. Even if it hurts to hear some things it is still goo to communicate and talk about it. I am happy for you and I hope you're feeling a little better.

take Care,
Carol~

We sat on the couch last night after putting the kids to bed. I asked him some of the questions (if he felt that some of the statements made were true) in After the Affair. We talked about it for about an hour and it went well. I've got a glimmer coming back, but I don't want to trust it too soon.

PeggyV taught me/us: "trust by verify" ... and I/we did for quite some times....

And as you walk you make your path Kat

You know, it just struck me when you said that, he's verifying as much as he possibly can, I just need to trust that it's going to continue. Part of me believes that it will since he's the type of person who once he goes through any type of hard issue, he learns his lesson in a forever type of way.

You're welcome, Jid !!!

For us, it started with him giving me the phone numbers of the hotels he would be staying, and he would even add the room numbers... At the beginning he would call me, and at times I would call him right back with an excuse lol... Even now he will call me with the info., at times I call, at times he calls... I trust him - but if needed I will verify

And as you walk you make your path Kat

Thanks again. How long has it been for you? You may have told me, but I have a hard enough time remembering crap here let alone stuff from everyone else I meet. I'm trying though.

I have confidence in "us." We had such a strong bond before and he's continually said that it was a nervous breakdown for him. He thought that he was doing a really crappy job at his day job, and too busy at the side business. Then with two cars broken down and costing way too much to repair, and having to borrow cars from friends, he was feeling like an even bigger looser for his family. Then with the non-communication between us and lack of sex, he took it personally, that I was thinking that he was a looser as well. I can now see where she looked inviting (not that it excuses what happened, but at least I can see why it happened).

I told him about your quote (trust by verify) and he agreed. We talked of his forwarding me the e-mail and he's told me that I can go through the car with a fine-toothed comb and check his cell records until eternity. He's even offered to get rid of his cell and sell the car! He's still offering to quit his job. He's really making an effort.

Last night we shared a candle-lit, incense-burning, bubble bath, and it was very nice. We were able to talk some more about the A and he assured me over again (not the first time he's told me this during the past four months) that she was the total aggressor. And that afterwards (after the kisses) he'd sit there with a sick feeling wonder what the hell he was doing and thinking. He said that after 8-10 days of her - this does include a weekend when he really didn't see her - he was done, he couldn't take it anymore, she was pushing too much for a deeper relationship, and he had told her that he could never give that to her, even after she would kiss him. He said that he accepted her kisses because at the time he was hurting and it made him feel needed. But then at the end of November (this started on Nov 20 with the first short phone call to see if she was okay - supposedly her H abused her), he realized that he needed me more than ever and that he took one look at me and the kids and realized how much I did for him out of love, even if we weren't talking or having sex, what I did for him on a daily basis spoke louder.

I told him that it was still going to take time, it was difficult for me to just jump back in with both feet and not expect to get hurt. He's fine with that, in fact, he expects it. He doesn't want me to rush back into "us," he wants me to be comfortable and to get that spark back in my soul for him. Man, he can make me cry.

He also told me that he had to talk to the OW on Friday about her and her best friend's work radio being turned up too loud, there were complaints being made. Her B/F was gone for the day so he had to talk to her directly (being her supervisor, it's his job unfortunately - but at least he's telling me these little issues). He said that later that day after hours, she called in expecting to get his voice mail. He was still there and got her call. She wanted to "plead" her case as to the fact that it wasn't her turning the radio up, it was the B/F. He told her (in his best business manner - no more being nicey nicey with them, he said that he's strictly professional) that it didn't matter, that he has to let them know and if it doesn't stay at a reasonable level, they won't be able to have it playing and he hung up. So, Monday should be interesting. I told him that I thought that he wasn't going to be hearing from her any more (hehe - in reference to her e-mail). He laughed and said that he agrees with me in that she's still trying to make him think that she's this goody two-shoes, but that she's not as pure as she makes herself out to be.

He says that he's seeing the true her now and it only disgusts himself even more. I can only reassure him that it was a lapse of judgement on his part, and he just has to learn from it and not have this happen again (he can be somewhat suseptible to the bleeding hearts).

Still keeping my fingers crossed that this continues, and still pretty hopeful. We've got some good groundwork started.

Thanks for listening, and teaching!

And a little comment to Fairyfriend as well as everyone else - "fairywingkisses" - these are the softest, most gentlest kisses you could ever get! I'm a big fairy freak, collect and make costumes!

His disclosure will be 7 years next month. I was fortunate enough to have 'found' PeggyV. site within a couple of weeks of it. And thanks to her and the members of her now disfunct forum I am here today...

I believe we all start our marriage with the flawed premise that we need to trust because in our view, we are to be trusted. And when 'that' trust is shattered by an affair, our world collpases.

I will never put my trust 'out' like this again - heck, there are many times when I do not trust MYSELF... so why put so much into some else's hands??? never the less, the 'lesson' is painful. And the old tapes run, and run amok... if only I were xyz, if only he... why me, why us... ad naseum...

For quite some times the only 'thing' I 'trusted' was - the sun was going to come up the following day whether I were around to see it or not. Even my brain and body failed me - I am very cognicent of the fact that under traumatic stress anorexia will again pay me a visit and I was left totally without my 'normal' defenses...and that vortex opened up again under my feet...I cursed the day I gave my trust freely, only to have it trampled upon but the one I trusted the most.

Slowly, very slowly and with the help of many 'strangers' I found my footing again.

Jid, I am glad to hear you and your husband have started the journey hand in hand. It will be long, it will be at times quite hard, but it can be travelled. Baby steps will get you where you want to be.

Wishing you a happy trail, fellow traveller !!!

And as you walk you make your path Kat

Jid,

Thank you for sharing your more positive news with us. I'm glad you and your husband are doing better. This battle against feelings we don't want to have is one all of us BS share--and I bet we all hate as much as I do.

Thank you for the comment about fairywing kisses. I'm guessing they are akin to butterfly kisses!

Fairywing kisses and fairy hugs to you--I know I need gentleness right now, and maybe you do too! Best of luck to you and your H.

fairyfriend

Last night as we were in bed talking peacefully, he asked me if I was okay. I told him that I was starting down the dreaded tunnel again. It's Sunday night and we've had a great weekend together, but tomorrow morning (this morning) he would be back at work and she would be there. He hugged me and told me to trust him as much as I could, even though he knew that it would be very little.

This morning he was saying good bye and asked me if I was okay. I told him honestly, no, but that it will be better as the day goes by, hopefully. He called me at 9am to let me know that he would be going into a meeting and I would not be able to reach him when I usually call. (Positive reinforcement.) He said that everything was going fine, that he's had not contact, except to say "good morning" in passing by the best friend. He said that she had found out about him "talking" to the OW about not having the radio turned up so loud and she was pissed, wouldn't talk to him or even make eye contact. He seemed to think that it was funny.

I told him to be cautious because I have this feeling that any complaint that he has to make about their behavior from this point on will be taken personally even if it isn't a personal issue (my H isn't that type of a person/supervisor. That's part of the reason why I'm trying to "deal" with the fact that he has to at least make some type of communication with the OW, even if it's "good morning" and that's it because it's part of his nature and part of his job.). Also, I'm afraid that at some point it may come out that he's treating them differently or "coming down on them" because he has a personal issue (or lack thereof) with them. I brought this up to him and he said not to worry about it, that if it starts to come to that, then it's time for him to leave because he's not going to sit there and let them take him through the ringer for something that isn't necessarily true, and make faulse accusations about his current personality. He also told me that at that point he's going to let me loose to do what ever I feel is necessary.

I'm trying hard to believe him and trust him, and I told him that it's not exactly something that's going to just happen and he recognizes that and respects that. He also said that he is going to do whatever it takes until whenever to get as much trust back as I am comfortable giving.

Why does it seem like he's better at this healing thing than me?