Over the last couple of weeks, my wife and I have probably had more good days than bad. I attribute that - and I've always known this - to the fact that we have spent a LOT of time together over the last two weeks, what with us traveling together and having many hours to talk and work things out. But then, bad days come along and reality hits me like a ton of bricks...

I was looking at my wife the other day, looking at her overall "condition" or awareness if you will, and I kept thinking back through the years of my marriage to her...and the hundreds of times I would hope that she'd "get it"....like hints about trying to get her to be a more intellectually stimulating conversationalist, being more sexually creative, finishing that last class which would give her the 4-year degree, or learning something new like a language or craft or something that might make her more...alive, I guess...just things like that which were important enough to me to make me resentful now for her not "getting it", or not WANTING to "get it" then. I know, MY fault not communicating it more clearly...but I also know better than to push that on anyone, as it's a horrible mistake to try and "Change" someone. It did make me think while I was looking at her though....I'm not sure that she's really capable of getting it. I'm not sure if a person (all of our WS's included) who could make such a horrible decision is truly a "deep" enough person to get it. And I don't mean that disrespectfully, I just mean it in terms of a level of "meaning"...a level of a person's soul. I think maybe that's one of the things that allowed our spouses to make the stupid, thoughtless, immoral decision to have an affair.

I just don't think it's in their make-up to WANT to be a truly deep personality. I think they live in a shallow world of semi-superficiality, a "ME, ME, ME" world where they don't have to carry any heavy weights emotionally or intellectually, and they like being there. It's easy and blissful. It certainly was while they were in love with OP, wasn't it?

Other than the selfless act of having children, has your spouse ever acted outside themself? In other words, do you ever see them think more about other people than they do themself, for whatever reason or whatever time? That's a hard thing to describe....but it's just something I guess I've haven't seen in my wife in many, many years, no matter how sweet or kind I used to think she was or still is to some degree, even AFTER the horrible thing she's done.

I watch how my wife reacts to this crisis...how she can remain so...I dunno....detached..."going on with everyday life", as was mentioned before in this forum. That sounds harsh, and let me tell you that she really, truly seems to be sincere when she tells me she's trying every day to win back my love, trust and respect. She's admitting it and facing it, but she still turned around the other day and lied to me again. I caught her in a blatant lie to protect herself (she logged onto a chat program to see who was on...the same one where she got caught confessing to her online "affair" partner that she had an affair with the neighbor). She denied she'd logged on because she was afraid of my reaction, similar to the lie that catalyzed that HUGE blowout a couple weeks ago. Wouldn't you think that somebody who has created SUCH a horrific situation would avoid getting themself into this type of situation again? At least, somebody who cares enough and truly grasps the impact of what they've done...?

It's as if she can't help it, because she doesn't really, truly, honestly care enough to "GET IT" well enough to NOT do that sort of thing. No, don't worry...I never even got angry this time (no Jack Daniels mixed with nicotine, I guess...but no excuses for last time....suffice it to say, I was collected this time, OK?). Yes, it destroyed every good day we'd had up to that point, and broke down all the trust I had been trying to build up in her - AGAIN. But this time, she was extremely remorseful....cried and cried and beat herself up for being stupid. That was a at least relatively reassuring for me, but it still showed me that the person I don't like is still in there. That my theory that she may not be capable of "getting it" may very well be true, and that I really can't believe anything she tells me, because her actions don't back up her words.

I am at least happy that she appears to be trying (I guess, as happy as I can be...after all, she still broke my heart, threw away everything for nothing, and truly ruined something special, which will never, ever be the same "special" again)...at least that she's not avoiding it completely. If she had, I'd have been long gone long ago (almost was gone a couple days ago, but was at her sister's house 3000 miles away right before Thanksgiving, which would have affected a LOT more people than just us...she fixed it eventually, but came this close to losing it with her attitude and selfish reasoning. She has no idea how really close she came....she thinks I'm BS'ing her..."manipulating" her when I threaten to leave. I'm not. I know myself...If I leave, I'm gone and I won't look back, and she doesn't realize just how much she's pushing me away when she's like that, or how easy it will be to lose me forever).

I just observe her and she treats everything and every situation as if it were just another day. She tells me she'd go insane if she were to think about it all the time, but I think that's a cop-out. She doesn't want to think about it because that would mean really, honestly facing it...facing what she's done for reasons OTHER than just to make up with me. I can tell that she doesn't truly realize what she's this close to losing...what she threw away...what it really, truly means, or what it really did to me and to our marriage. I question whether a WS is selfless or self-insightful enough...."DEEP" enough to WANT to get it. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. It takes a richer, deeper soul than I think they have to truly understand it the way it should be understood.

Does that sound callous? Should I have known this before...WAY before in our marriage? As I was staring at her the other night, I think I started to come to the realization that I DID know this all along, and I subconsciously put it back in my head and heart and appreciated her for her many good qualities instead, because I was in it for the long haul. I took a vow, and I loved her deeply enough to change myself...which is what I believe love and marriage are all about. Sure, there are more and more things that I'm realizing I had a LOT to be resentful about in our marriage, but I never made the ultimate immoral decision, break my sacred vows and risk my entire life because of them. That's just stupid...purely stupid. I think a "poorer" soul is more susceptible to that line of thinking.

I'm really struggling with all this. It's killing me every day, little-by-little. It rips me apart, thinking about what she's done, but especially about how little regard she appears to have for it, even when she's trying to fix it. I know that GT told me that she took a long time to become a selfish person, so it will take a long time to break the old habits. I just am not truly convinced she can break some of those habits. Just today, I told her I could feel a bad day coming on, especially since I was going back to work and wouldn't be around her to get the reassurance that she's trying to win back my trust and respect (especially after the latest lie the other night). She promised she'd call me...a lot if need be, to talk to me throughout the day. Well, comes up on her lunch time and lo & behold, I get a bunch of text messages. She was eating her lunch at work, probably had a bunch of people sitting around her, and she once again decided not to talk to me because she's ashamed of telling me she loves me in front of other people...ESPECIALLY the people at work who build up her ego and self confidence and see her as a sexy individual, not a devoted wife (well, I guess they're right after all!). She's done this to me before, and she promised to never do it again. ANOTHER promise broken. At this point, it doesn't matter if she was alone or with a hundred people in that room. A promise is a promise, and she's not capable of caring enough to keep a promise. That's obvious by now, isn't it? Why am I so stupid that I keep taking it from her? I need to really evaluate that. I know I need to make it through the holidays, move into the new house, and evaluate what I want to do from there.

She might surprise me one day, I don't know...but she sure doesn't seem to be able to surprise me consistently. I'm just not sure I'm patient enough to hang around for her to truly, truly get it....IF she has the capability to do so. If I continue to feel like she really can't, I'll think more and more to myself that it makes no sense for me to hang around waiting for something that will never come. That's happened a LOT in this marriage...but now I'm not inclined to set that aside and go looking for the positive aspects of her personality. Does that make sense?

W0W! Bob, your post made me really stop & think. I had to stop & think back over the years & think if my H had been selfish all these yrs. Ya know, in my case I don't think he was. For instance, when he was offered a job here in OR 9 yrs. ago, he wanted my input as to whether we should make the move or not. Any time he wanted to play golf or spend time with friends, he would ask me if it was o.k. It wasn't until about the time of the affair that he started saying he was going to go play cards with his buddies, etc. I wonder if he went to Jamaca(I told him "no") just to take control & do what he wanted to do.He always let me kinda be the boss all these yrs.I don't know what goes thru his mind anymore.I just know I'm scared of being hurt again.I wish I had the chance to take classes or learn a hobby! I do daycare 7 days a week in my home. Doesn't leave much free time! I do listen to Sean Hannity M-F & I at least find time to scan USA Today & my local newspaper too. I have lots of dreams & no one to share them with. Oh, I tell them to my H but he's not a dreamer so... I was lucky enough to get the money to travel to Europe when I was in my 20's. I was hit by a drunk driver & when I got a $5,000 settlement I took a 16 day trip. I even got to go to Athens Greece & visit a penpal that I had for several yrs. I stood at the Acropolis & cried. It was so special to stand there . Well, I still dream but with the financial mess we're in I don't see a chance of traveling or owning a horse again. Right now I would feel rich just th have an H I could trust & a good marriage again!

""""In other words, do you ever see them think more about other people than they do themself, for whatever reason or whatever time?""""

Yes, other than the affair my wife always thought mostly of others her entire life. In fact, I think that was sort of part of the "why" equation. She had done so much for others over the years she felt she deserved it when OM started giving her attention. Other than the affair, my wife is the most selfless person that I have ever known.

The biggest problem about this affair recovery bidness is trying to keep your mind under control. Look how much we split hairs. We even pick the hairs off the hairs and split them. We obsess, questioning everything, every word, every action, every look, our entire history together, analyze their childhood, analyze your own childhood, analyze anyone who may have been involved no matter how minimal. We go around and around and around and around in a circle trying to answer a question that has no tangible answer. Something like, "It must have meant something or you wouldn't have risk so much." "No, it really meant nothing; I love you and never really stopped loving you." "If you loved me so much how could you hurt me or disregard that I'm your spouse?" "It wasn't about you; it was about me and only me. The OP means nothing to me really." "He/She must have meant something to you or you wouldn't have been willing to risk me and our marriage." After years of this you finally realize that what you are doing isn't searching for an answer to a question that can't be answered. What you are really doing is trying to accept that there is no real answer. And that is a very difficult, almost impossible, thing to do, to accept that there is no answer to why you had to suffer so much pain, especially since it was brought on by the one that you always thought that you could depend on no matter what.

Yes you're right,we do go round & round looking for answers but I don't know what else to do. I can't just forget about it. Everything has a reason or purpose.Seems to me if you don't figure out why the A happened then it is more likely to happen again. Something caused my H to have an A. I guess I just need for my H to figure it out.He needs to do it for himself too. What makes a person do something that they never thought they'd do? People need to be held accountable for their actions & need to look deep inside & figure out what caused the things they chose to do. It was a choice on their part & choices require thought. They need to face those choices & the pain they've caused.I would expect my H to be asking me the same questions if I had been the one having the A.

Brilliantly stated, Barbarapat. Absolutely brilliantly stated!

H2C...you're right, it's a circle game, and I can't control those thoughts. And I don't want to have them 3 and a half years from now. It's not right. It's not fair. I would never have caused her this much pain. If Ihad, I'd be KILLING myself to make up for it...absolutely killing myself, if I truly was remorseful. I guess they just can't see it because they don't understand this level of pain.

That's what is so frustrating...to think that they may never understand it. That's wrong on top of wrong, and it makes me angry and sad and just....hurt.

Hi Bob. Welcome back. I have a few things that entered my mind while reading your post. I think your wife continues to lie for two reasons...she is afraid...isn't that why we all lie? But, you think to yourself, how can an adult 40ish female, allegedly mature, continue to lie? Well...you have answered your own question....it was NOT a mature, adult female who chose to violate your marriage vows. I guess what I am saying is, why would you expect anything other than that from her? She has not been honest in the past and I think the surrounding circumstances (finding out about the affair, trying to please you) might interfer with her being totally honest. She is in the "I'm trying not to disappoint him mode".... In addition, I think she is so focused on trying to live up to your expectations that she will do ANYTHING to be in your good graces. As I read what you have said about her and your relationship with her, it has occurred to me that she might be "intimidated" by you. Does that make sense? In what way do you want her to be more "intellectually stimulating"? What does that truly mean? What does intellectual stimulation have to do with what you need from a life partner? I am just asking that question. I think that she is afraid of disappointing you again....even after the ultimate disappointment.
Water seeks its own level....that's a thought that keeps coming up for me. Who was the man that your wife chose to become involved with? Don't you think it would have been someone with whom she felt some "connection"? Could it be that your wife, at some level, doesn't feel that she can be "herself" when she is with you? You have almost alluded to this as well....I hope you are not taking offense to any of this...I am just describing what I was thinking while reading your post. Maybe your wife doesn't think that she is "worthy" of you? Whatever that means. I am wondering what she would say to you if you were to ask her what she has learned about herself from this experience? I am sure that there has been some insight into self from this. What do you think she would say? As a matter of fact, what have YOU leaned about yourself from this experience? It sounds as though you are becoming quite insightful as you "think" outloud about some of the aspects of your relationship. At this point, I don't think you really know what you want.

What was it about her that was initially attractive to you? Is that a quality that she still has? Sometimes when we select our mates....the very thing that was what attracted us to them in the first place, becomes the thing that repels us in the end???? The old solution becomes the problem.

Your wife has committed the epitome of sins....how can she ever, or can she ever, make it up to you? I am wondering if she believes that she can? Has she disappointed you so severely that there is no chance EVER, to level the playing field? I think the playing field needs to be level...I am speaking of the power balance within the relationship. Perhaps you are expecting too much too soon. She simply wants to get on with her life and she is immobilized because you continue to have her stuck in the past....I am not criticizing you, that is where YOU need to be. The two of you are off balance...she wants to forget and you need to know it all. How can she forget if you keep bringing it up? Another eloquent example of the "paradoxes of life"....

I really think the two of you can get through this. I am such an optomist....I think people can change and become more enlightened and aware. I will reiterate what I have said before...there is not going to be any less pain experienced whether you decide to remain in the marriage or terminate the marriage.....you will, and she will, still experience pain. It makes sense to me to stay together and work through the pain rather than separate and try to do it independently of one another.
I am so sorry that you are in such a state of total dismay. I hope I have not said anything to offend you. I simply am trying to be present with your thoughts as I read them and share what my "thinking" is as I read them. Best of luck to you. Perhaps the "move" will be the culminating panacea for the two of you. A new place to "start over".....good luck.

"Other than the affair, my wife is the most selfless person that I have ever known."

H2C

Your lucky, I wish I could have said the same for my ex but it would be a lie.

"In other words, do you ever see them think more about other people than they do themself, for whatever reason or whatever time?"

Bob

I can honestly say that my ex rarely thought of other people more than himself when I was married to him. On occasion he would do something nice but the selfishness definitely outweighed the generosity and caring for others. I could actually list examples of extreme selfishness toward others, and me as well, but that would take me a bit of time.

You know the funny thing though is that he seems more agreeable and generous now than he did when we were together. I find that strange. Sometimes he's so nice that I have to remind myself all the horrible things he's done to me, how little he cared for my feelings, and how little he wanted to be the person he should have been. I see how nice he is now and in some ways I want to be his friend and when I remind myself of what he's done, I realize that I wouldn't choose a friend like him who has lied through his teeth for so long and was willing to give up his children a great deal of the time because he didn't want to deal with his own issues - to me, that is the epitome of selfishness. I don't really think he has that "depth in thinking" that you were talking about. I don't think he has the ability to think deeply at all yet he still belittled me and tried his hardest to make me "feel" stupid when we were married. He always had an err about him that made me feel as if he thought he was better than me intellectually since he had more books smarts than I did. I honestly never bought into it though.

I guess it is a good thing that I'm now dating a highly intelligent, generous, and wonderful guy because it is good for me to have a good role model to compare the ex to so I can remember just what it was that I was missing out on for all those years.

Someone may think the things he does are silly but for me, they are so unbelievably appreciated, because I've never had anyone do these things for me. Things like twice after he's worked a long day HE has gone to the store and made us a nice meal. One day he watched my kids while I was at school and during my school lunch break I went to his house and he had 3 meals made, one for he and I, and each of my children had what they wanted for lunch. How many people would go to the trouble of doing that?

He will offer to get up and get anything for me when we are both sitting. He doesn't drink too much, burp, fart or act like a slob in front of me. In other words, he's a gentelman something my ex WAS NOT. I'm not saying that doing any of those things by accident are bad but my ex thought his bodily functions were fricken hilarious. Boyfriend does lots of stuff for my children that I wouldn't expect him to do like if we're still doing homework and he comes over, he'll help them with it. I am so NOT used to these things that they are foreign to me sadly, but it sure makes me appreciate a good thing when I have found it.

Sorry I've gone off on a little tangent here, I was simply trying to say that my ex does not think deeply at all and being with someone who likely does, makes me ponder how I stayed with my ex all those years. I guess in some ways I understand what your talking about. I agree with another poster that if those qualities weren't there when you started dating her, what DID attract you and is it still there but just hidden under all these layers of hurt?

Charlie

I'm in the H2C boat. My W is a very giving and caring person. She thinks of the kids and grandkids first, always. I joke that she can't even walk into a convenience story without buying something for the grandkids...

Bob, from almost 7 years being on forums like this, it seems like the more intelligent people are, the tougher they have it in affair recovery. They tend to think things through TOO much, rather than just accepting things for what they are.

In other words, two months after D-Day, if your W happens to pick you up a T-Shirt with your favorite football team's logo on it, it was probably NOT her way of saying how sorry she was for her affair. She picked it up because she knew you like that team, and probably because it was on sale in the clearance rack. At least that would be my W's motive...

Bob, I don't know if you know about my sight issue, so I'll explain. I'm going blind, probably have about 10 - 12 years of sight left. At this point, I have no side vision (3 degrees out of 180), no night vision or depth perception, and I'm starting to lose my colors. It's a disease that runs in my family, and I've known from a very early age what was going to happen. Now, I said that so I can say this...

It took my many years, but I finally realized that my eye disese just IS. Nothing bad or good, nothing earth shattering, no moralistic or ethical commentary. It just IS. It's a part of my life. It's a part of my life that I'd rather not have, but that wasn't a choice I was consulted on. What IS my choice is how I deal with it.

In a strange way, dealing with it was good "training" for affair recovery, as the many stages I went through in accepting something that was happening in my life that I had no control over (my blindness) were eerily similar to the stages in affair recovery. Maybe that's what made it a bit easier for me in affair recovery, obviously combined with a remorseful spouse who worked her a$$ off on herself and our marriage.

Or maybe it's because I'm not as smart as some of others here.. Seriously, I don't consider myself stupid, but after knowing many people here for a quite a few years, I can state that I'm a mental midget in comparison to some of them..

Jeopardy anyone? I get Chris on my team!! LOL
Cory

You are not a human being having a spiritual experience, but a spiritual being having a human experience.

I totally agree with your way of thinking! If I was the one that had the A I would be doing ANYTHING & EVERYTHING to try & make it better. I talked to my H this morning & told him that he needs to SHOW me that he's trying to make things better. As I told him this a.m. "The words I love you don't mean much because you told me that everyday when you were lying & having an affair". I need a card or flowers. I know we're broke but he could plan a walk in a park or some little surprise. I know he's trying alittle because he's held my hand, & sat on the couch a few times & had me sit next to him. I know those things took thought but I told him I need more. He says he will try harder.I've always done little things for him. For instance, when he would have to be out of town I would purchase a romantic card for each day he would be gone, write a note inside each one & put them in his suitcase. How much trouble is that? Not much. So, why can't he surprise me with little things? I'm about ready to run out the front door & keep going! I need more than the words "I Love You". Especially since the A. My H should be afraid of losing me & his brain should be working overtime thinking of ways to show me that he treasures me. I sure haven't felt very treasured since finding out about the A & lies!!!Why doesn't he get it?

Hey Bob,

Your thought process is typical for a man; we seem to always want to find the reason or solutions to our problems. This is how most men operate! I drove myself totally to the brink of insanity of trying to rationalize why my W would do something that was so hurtful to the people that she supposedly loves. As others have stated, there are situations in life that have no real answers, it just is what it is…. I know that may not be very comforting but you need to accept that there will probably not be a single reason for why your W had an affair.
I’ve reflected in my own marriage and I can honestly state that I’m not the same person my wife married 18 years ago and the same could be said for her. We all change, as we grow older, I understand what you were saying with regards to the fact that your W was not growing in some aspects as you felt you were. I’ve always embraced trying to get the most from life, whether it was continuing with my education or learning a new hobby but I too wondered why my wife never seemed to want to do the same. Some folks are just not comfortable with change; they enjoy a certain way of life. As a close friend of my noted; “she’s not you” when I would complain about the way my W would handle things in our relationship.
As I said before, “we” cannot change how “others” treat us be “we” have all the power in this world as to how “we” respond. For your own peace of mind, don’t over analyze the A. Learn from it, know that you’re the better person for not leaving your family and try and give your wife some distance from the horrible mess. You have ever right to blame her for all the pain your going threw but having that right doesn’t mean that you need to exercise it because you can. All of us, who are on this site, have our stories to tell. I too have bouts with anger at times.
You know how I feel about keeping your family together for the sake of your children; I’ve been very outspoken with this issue amongst family and friends as well. Kids need a brake from all the crap that we grown-ups like to through around in our marriages. I grew up with my parents constantly bickering; it’s not a good place to be as a child. Try and keep some focus on them, it has helped me to learn not to take life or myself so seriously.

As time continues my hope for you is that you will value your time with your family and that you will continue to heal.

Gee,I guess I think like a guy! I've only had 4 1/2 hrs. sleep in the last 2 nites so forgive me for not being in a happy mood.If I don't get some kind of explanation for H's affair besides "I don't know" I don't think I'll be staying. I have 4 kids but I am not going to spend the rest of my life being with someone who can't figure out why he risked throwing everything away.You don't do something like that for no reason.My dad raised me by himself after my parent's divorce. Sometimes it's better to be in a single parent home than it is to stay in a 2 parent unhappy home.Hopefully H & I will work things out but right now I am one very unhapppy woman.

Barb, I understand what you are saying. But whether you stay or leave you will never be able to understand why your H had an affair. You can think about it from any angle and it will not ever make sense to you. That's the reality of it and there is just no way around it. You have to find a way to accept it. After three years of struggling with this you will come back to this very paragraph that I'm writing whether you are still together or not.

I sincerely wish there was a way that I could help others through this process without the struggle that me and others had to go through. But I guess I can't. I guess that is indeed the process in itself.

H2C

Hi Barbarapat,

I hear what your saying, if you and your spouse are at each others throats, then by all means seperate and move on. I couldn't tell you how many times I stumbled into work on 3 hours of sleep because of my own marital problems.
What we need to consider is the possibilty of finding ourselves in yet another bad relationship with some one new. It's a normal reaction to want and leave our spouses, this seems like the most logical thing to do but most of us give it times before making such a drastic move.
I've heard so many horror stories with regards to the 2nd spouse that a new relationship will not exclude any of us from running into the same set of problems. Now compound that with having to deal with the affects of a divorce on the kids. I hear what my own children are telling with about there friends whose parents have divorced, not one of there experiences seems to be good.
I'm not trying to say that a single parent cannot do a good job of raising a child, I just feel that it's only fair that they have the oppurtunity to be raised by both parents if possible.
Bottom line, there seems to be no clear solution to helping those of us whom dealt with the affects of an affair. It just takes time and a strong will to survive.

Gary

I guess I'm probably not willing to accept this mess. My H chose to tear apart my life & I spend alot of my time thinking he blew it & it can never be fixed. Why should I have to settle for less than what I was promised? Why should I settle for never thinking the same about H or our marriage?Why do I have all this shit in my life because he chose to be an ass!He acts the same day after day; keeps saying he wants to work things out. How convenient-he gets to have his fun, ruin my life,& then wants to fix things. I hate him alot of the time. I wish he could hurt half as much as I do.

I understand what you're saying about leaving a relationship & getting into a bad 2nd relationship. If I leave this marriage there will not be another relationship for a very long time. MY first marriage was a disaster & I was VERY careful about who I picked to be my next H & the father of my 2 oldest daughters. I picked my current H after being together for 7 1/2 yrs. We were engaged for 6 1/2 yrs. I was very careful & then he goes off the deep end & does this. So, if I leave I don't think I will ever allow anyone to get close again.No marriage #3. I have now learned you can't trust anyone to be honest or to have morals.Just a fact of life I guess. I would have bet my life that my H would never have done ANYTHING like this A & the lies. Now I will never feel safe again.

Thanks to everybody for hearing me out once again. My "stream of consciousness" writing is just that...what I'm feeling at the time, whether it has a foundation or not. I know I may not have been completely fair to my wife in the things I'm writing or thinking, but please remember that this is only my side of the story, and I write what I'm thinking at the time, whether that be on a good day or a bad day. It's just that I feel the need to write it out on the bad days, because the good days help to wash away the negativity. Yes Cory, I do overthink it. It's a curse. It's the way I am and it's difficult for my logical side of my brain to grasp that which doesn't/can't make sense to it, because that's the part of me that dominates my thought process in times of crisis. Perhaps with time...I don't know. I understand what you're telling me, and thank you for that. It's a 2x4 again, but this one was made of balsa wood. I understand and appreciate it.

Sage, I can't begin to describe just how perfectly right on the money you are. She IS afraid of disappointing me again. She IS intimidated by me to a certain extent, because she thinks she knows how I'll react (which may or may not be the case, but it is enough for her to feel that way, and I can't dispute her feelings). There's nothing you can say to me that will offend me. She DID seek out the affection of OM because of many things I didn't provide her. I recognize and acknowledge that. I'm not clean in this relationship, but it's only my side that gets told. I have many shortcomings that made her resentful over the years, and I made many mistakes. The biggest of which was my lack of presence in the marriage (physically), but there are also all the little things that built up resentment over the years...for BOTH of us. One of the biggest being her job, which is the main focus of our most recent issues...

I have to admit that from the very beginning of this job that she has, I wasn't particularly happy about it. She wanted to go back to work after 10 years of staying at home with the kids. That was great by me...no problems there. But she chose a job that I thought was less than she was worthy of. She had (well almost has...one English Class short) a degree in Business Management that she found stimulating while she was studying for it, but she chose not to completely finish her degree (I think again because of the intimidation factor...there could have been something in there that she thought that if she finished the degree, I would pressure her to get a better job. Maybe she's right...maybe not) to go back down to a retail job. Yes, I wanted more for her, and I told her, but I never forced will on her (but I do acknowledge and understand that it was wrong of me to project my wishes on her...or even to try and project them...I understand). After about 6 months of that, she explained to me that this was for her and that it made her happy, so I shouldn't be unhappy about it. She was right, and I backed down.

She absolutely loves her job. The people make her feel good, it's creative and loosely structured (surprising for a retail environment), and they allow her to set the hours that she wants to work in order to be available for her family. It was like a dream job for her. It was SO important to her over the last couple of years, that it was the dominant subject of our (well, her) conversations. Here's where the issues come in...

It was around the time of her starting her job that I began to notice the hard shell forming around her. Yes, the job gave her the self confidence that everyone needs, especially after coming off of the selfless task of devoting 10 years of her life to nothing but raising kids. I loved her new self confidence. The trouble is - and whether this is legitimate or not, these are my feelings, OK? - I started to associate the confidence she was getting with the job to the hard shell that she was creating between us. It was as if she started to blur the line between self confidence and selfishness. Maybe she felt like she deserved to be a little selfish...and maybe she indeed did. It just happened to correlate...the timing of it all. And I communicated that to her many, many times. But perhaps the resentment that she was building up for me made it too late for her to feel like she could communicate properly with me. I acknowledge and understand that...but at the time, it only felt to me like it was the job that was helping to detach her from me emotionally. Especially when that was the lion's share of her discussions with me.

Me, on the other hand...I don't like to bring my work home. I don't like to talk about work outside of work. I was also very unbending...unreasonable when it came to her calling me at work, because when I was at work, the immense pressure was something I felt I had to give my full concentration to. I realize now that I was just shutting her out without really understanding I was doing that. I in turn made it a point to never disturb her at work, because in my mind I was affording her the same respect I was asking of her...to not mix the two. That was an even bigger mistake, and where our two personalities apparently just couldn't/can't mesh. Her job was SO important to her that in her mind, it should have been as important to me. She is resentful of the fact that I never memorized her work number...that she thinks it was because I didn't care enough about what was important to her. I don't think that's true, but maybe there is some validity to that. I see now that perhaps I became jealous of her job, because I saw her showing more attention...affection...endearment to her job than she did to our relationship....to me, I guess.

So, I built up a resentment to that job. The kicker was when it was time for me to take on this horrible job overseas. She didn't want to go because our daughter cried when it was brought up, because she wanted to spend her last year of grammar school with her friends, because we had moved her around so much. I on the other hand, didn't insist that they go with me because I would NEVER have taken my wife away from something that she loves so much. Whether I resented the job or not, I saw that it was the only thing in her life that made her truly happy, and I wasn't going to take her away from that.

So, skip forward to D-Day. Now, my world is shattered, and the medium for her affair - the thing that allowed it to happen so easily - was the fact that I was gone, without her being with me overseas...and the horrible reality that it was her job that kept me from insisting they come with me. My resentment for the job increased tenfold...to the tenth power. Add to that the fact that on D-Day, before she told me the whole truth, she told me the affair was with a co-worker. I know that's not true now, but that memory...that horrible feeling on the worst day of my life is associated with that one thing I was most resentful of, whether it was factual or not...it was still what she said to me, and the pain of that memory rips at my soul every minute of every day.

Skip forward to today. We've been having a horrible argument about her job. I've made it clear in the last two months that I have that resentment...HATRED for that job. But it's still the one thing that is keeping her sane through all this turmoil. She wants to talk with me about it....she wants me to be the one she can communicate with about it, not somebody else, and that's what I want to be. But now she feels she can't because she knows how I feel about it. It's a horrible Catch 22...a conundrum. She wants me to change my line of thinking about that job...wants me to feel good about it so she can feel good about it...because it's the only thing she CAN feel good about right now. But that resentment I have is so deep...so burned into my pain. I want to say - and have said - to her that I can't help the way I feel about it...that she can't project into my feelings that the resentment is unfounded. Whether it is or it isn't unfounded, it's still the way I feel, and I don't think it's fair for her to ask me to change the way I feel about it.

Over the last couple of weeks, she's been telling me that she's thinking of quitting that job and devoting more of her time to me and the kids again, and being sincere about working on our recovery by being more available to me and the kids, and spending time in this new, big house that will require a lot more maintenance and time. But she's struggling with that decision, and she waffles back and forth as to whether she should quit or not...because she really doesn't WANT to. She knows how I feel about it, so she feels she can't get any objective reasoning from me when it comes to making this decision. I've told her that - regardless of my feelings about the job - I still want her to talk with me about it, and that I'll try to be objective...but it still boils down to her wanting me to be more positive about it. In the middle of our arguing about it, I told her that it is unfair for her to ask that of me...that it seems to me that she is wanting me to change the way I feel to justify her reasoning NOT to quit and to make her feel good about that decision.

I sit here and wonder if I really am being unreasonable, or is she just being selfish again, wanting me to change my thought process to accommodate her, when she's the one who ultimately created this mess. I wonder if she's trying to avoid taking responsibility for the fact that she made the decision a difficult one, and that she is the one who has to bear it, but she's disrespecting my feelings again in order to make it easier on herself. I'm confused and disappointed...but I can't tell if it's with her, this whole mess, or with me. I really need objective opinions about this, because I'm emotionally exhausted, and I recognize that maybe I'm not responding to her correctly, and that's not what I want to do. She really is trying to fix things as best she can, but she's emotionally exhausted too.

Sorry for this post being so long. To anyone who has the patience to stay with it, thank you.

Bob,

In difficult times, we all try and find a quick solution.
What I'm referring too is the fact that maybe both of you guys need to put some distance between having to make a decision on your wifes career. Obviously, the two of you have very strong feelings on the subject.
We all have a tendency to regain some sort of feelings (of being) in control and this could be what your experiencing. You've stated that she did not have an A with anyone at her job and it seems that this employement means a lot to your wife.
My wife works part-time and it's probably what she talks about(the most) on a day-to-day basis, we all need a sense of belonging and accomplishment.
Like I tell the people at work, "pick and choose your battles". This applies to all areas of life as far as I'm concerned.
I would allow her the chance to do what makes her happy within reason, giving her the space to grow as a person will be beneficial to your relationship.

Gary

Hi Bob....sorry about all of this for you. These are the things that have come up for me as I read your post. I simply respond with what I am paying attention to as I read your post. I don't think you are being unreasonable...I think you are responding in as honest and forthright fashion as you can. I "sense" for her a Catch 22....she certainly wants to please you and be back in your good graces BUT, this job is her only respite at this time....she can go there and be supported by friends, colleagues, get her "intellectual" fix, whatever. I am wondering if she is thinking in her mind, would it be a good idea to quit a job and then end up outside of the relationship, a single mother, and no job? Just pragmatically speaking. Other than the fact that it does fulfill an emotional need of hers, she might be frightened to take such a drastic step. What if you walked in one day and announced that you have had enough and that you are bailing out? Again, those thoughts came up for me. You both are walking on egg shells....my stomach learches as I read and physically react to what is being written....it's not bad stuff, just so anxiety producing. You indicated that the job is still a fairly anxiety producing discussion with you. You equate the d'day with the job....the anxiety that was produced and your thoughts went to her office, etc. Does she want you to be a part of that life? Her work life? I am not sure of that and I don't know if you have mentioned that. In my former marriage, I was a big part of my former H's job. As a health professional, I visited him often and got to know everyone with whom he works...even the OW with whom he has chosen to remain with instead of me and our family...(BOO). Anyway, I was thinking, I would want to know her thoughts on your involvement with her job. Does she want you to steer clear? Could you meet up with her and have lunch there? Do you drop around and see her? Would she want you to do that? This sounds like aversive therapy, but maybe that would ease some of your anxiety if you felt more a part of that role with her??? Again, these are the things that came up for me. She may want you totally out of the picture and that is fine. BUT, at least you might want to explore the possibility with her. Again, she might not be sure herself if the marriage is going to remain in tact...the ball is, in essence, in your court. You have all of the power and control right now. Principle of least interest...the one with the least interest has the most power. That is a horrible place for someone in the reciprocal role to be placed.....she is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. Does that make sense? I am in no way discounting what your feelings about this are....if there was a way to "reframe" this for YOU...think of it in a different way....you have even stated it...she loves her job and it provides some emotional support for her. She probably comes home and is excited to share her time with the family because she gets such a "high" from work. She is contributing to the famlly welfare as well....financially and emotionally. If she had a great day at work, it empowers her and provides her with the "fix" she needs to replunish her energy onto the family. Does that make sense? It's like going out as a couple and leaving the children with someone...you have fun, you enjoy your time away from teh children and it energizes you to share with them when you return home.
I dont' know if I am confusing you further or not. I wanted to simply state what I felt come up when I was reading. I still think she is frightened to share much with you at this time. Again, you could just throw your arms in the air and walk away. Could she? Would she do that? Is SHE really committed to wanting to remain in the marriage? I don't think you have ever spoken to that either. Who made the decision to remain together as a couple? I still recall the quote that I read somewhere on th is site....the affair was the beginning of our marriage.....perhaps the two of you will be sitting on the beach some day laughing about this and so happy that you are at the point in your marriage where you are then...thinking how sad it was that the A happened, but how greatful you are that it forced you to look at your life and what you both need from one another. I wish that is how my marriage had turned out. I AM going to be sitting on the beach some day thinking about myself at that point in my life and I know I will be happy....AND I hope I can be laughing about how GREAT my life is and that the A transition/divorce was a factor in my movement to get there. Wish me luck. I certainly wish the two of you luck.

Thanks folks. To let you know, yes, I've been very clear to her that - although she knows how I feel about that job - it's her decision to make, whether she stays or goes. I can't make that for her, but I know she thinks that if she makes the wrong decision in my eyes, I will hold it against her. That may very well be true. I have to let that go...I know that. It's not fair to her, no matter how much I want to say that what she did to me isn't fair. I want to say that she made this mess and she has to clean it up no mater how painful some of the decisions will be, but that goes back to the "control" thing that you've all told me is a myth. I need to let it go and let her make her own decision. I'm just not sure if it's right/appropriate/fair for her to ask me to contribute objectively in that decision. That's my struggle. Maybe we just have to agree to disagree at this point and let it simmer for a while like you suggested, Gary.

Yes Sage, I'm absolutely positive she has that thought in the back of her mind. She knows that I love her, and I'm trying like crazy to be understanding, and I'm still here, but she also knows that we're very volatile right now, and the possibility of me calling it quits is very prevalent. That tears her up, I can tell, because I think she honestly is committed to staying in this relationship. She thinks sometimes I use that volatility as a power trip...that I use it as a manipulation tool, which is not the case. It's just the reality of the heartbreak and the results of the betrayal and how I'm reacting to it. We both expect resolution too quickly. We're both too impatient. That's a problem! At least I acknowledge that and am doing my best to hang in there and not make any rash decisions, because it is still VERY early in this discovery phase, I know.

It's true that I honestly don't know how this will work out, no matter how positive my feelings can be on our good days, because the bad days or SO HORRIBLY bad, and I know it's hard for her to comprehend how those bad days can come about so easily. But she's as buttheaded as I am, so she gets mad and then I get mad thinking she has no right to get mad and it turns into a big fight. It always makes matters worse when we fight, or when we take ten giant steps back with some new lie or promise not kept, and as a result I get upset and she feels like there's no way to please me, then we fight some more about that, and we hang up on each other and play stupid little sandbox games. It's a horrible cycle. So we fight and argue and not resolve anything, and it pushes us away from each other just that little bit more each time.

So yes, I'm sure that job holds a level of security for her, and she's not willing to take a leap of faith that drastic and go all or nothing. I understand that it's too much risk for her. It's disappointing, but understandable, and I'll honestly try and do my best not to impose my will on her or use it against her if she decides to stay with it. That doesn't mean my feelings about it will change. I just have to react to it more appropriately. I confess, that's difficult for me to do right now.

Luck is something we need boatloads of right now, Sage...so thank you for wishing us that. I don't believe in Karma anymore, and I've lost my faith in the one thing I truly believed in, so luck is all I have to go by. I wish you the best of luck as well. Who'd have ever thought life would be this difficult? I didn't for 44 years....but it sure hit me hard when I found out what real devastation is.