I feel like such a total idiot for putting any more faith in my H. As you may remember, H told me last week that he had decided (again)that he would not have any C with OC and that he told OW this. This obviously made me very happy, and I once again started to concentrate on healing over this whole mess. Well of course it was too good to be true. We were at a basketball game Friday night and a little girl comes up to my H and says "Angie wants to see you". As soon as the words were out of her mouth, my H jumps up and goes out into the hallway,without so much as a word to me!! I then see the little whore in doorway (on purpose I'm sure so I'd see her) with her son, then goes back into the hall. Keep in mind this is the first I've seen her in person since finding out about OC, and the very first time seeing OC. I wait a few minutes and go into the hallway myself where they are no where to be found. A minute or two later H comes back in from outside, and she is gone. Nothing is said about the situation. When we get in the car I give him a few minutes to start explaining and he says NOTHING. I ask what the hell all that was about, and he says she just wanted to know something about child support. All he can say is that he can't control where she goes and seemed to basically not understand why I should be upset. I know he can't control where she is, but does he have to jump every time she says to? Why didn't he turn to me and ask if I wanted to go out to see her with him, or better yet, not go see her at all? We kept our plans to grab a quick dinner afterward, and I went in the bathroom to try and get myself together. It hit me so hard - I am a 33 year old, intelligent, caring woman sitting in the bathroom of a cheesy Chinese restaurant crying like a 16 year old girl because my boyfriend talked to another girl. How pathetic is that? Is this really what my life has become??? We continued to have the never ending discussion of him seeing OC, and it seems that once again he wants to reconsider his decision. I spent all but a few hours of the weekend in bed, crying myself to sleep, wondering how much more of this I can put up with. I love him so much, and I still value and respect my marriage vows (that makes one of us), and I still want us to have a life together. But how long do I allow him to control this situation? I have no real reason to believe this next decision will be "final", no real reason to believe he won't keep doing the same crap he's been doing. I really think he's just trying to drag this out so I'll either kick him out, or OW will tell him he can't see OC so he won't have to choose. What pisses me off is that the decision right now as to whether or not to see OC is really all about what H wants as OC won't really know who he is for another couple of years and won't remember if "dad" has been visiting or not (he's only 10 months old), especially since H says he only wants to see him for an hour once or twice a month. H says that I don't understand how much it would hurt him not to see OC. Guess what buddy - do you understand how much it hurts me that you have?? How much it's hurt me that he even exits, how much it hurts me that you had the A, and now you want me to give in yet again because you'll be hurt if I don't??? How can anyone possibly be so selfish? Is it that he's still not ready to really accept all the wrong he's done, how much he's hurt me? Or has he changed so much that he now really is just a selfish ass? We had talked a couple weeks ago about him leaving for awhile to decide what he really wants. Of course that hasn't happened because it would take iniative on his part and I refuse to leave since I pay for the house. He now tells me that he'll have his decision by Thursday. We have a counseling session tomorrow, which should be really good. Because of work conflicts for both of us we haven't been since the discovery in November that he never stopped seeing OC. How much good can therapy do when all you do is lie? As much as I keep hoping that he's changing and hanging on to the small improvements he's made, I don't know how much more of my life I'm willing to waste on this. I wonder if I'm finally coming to the point where I'm willing/able to take control of all this and end it. The thought of that scares me, but so does the thought of continuing in this endless cycle of lies and betrayal. From the beginning, our counselor has metioned that H's agreement not to see OC is an act of coercion on my part, that he's only doing it because I'm "making" him. I asked what the difference betweeen this request and my request that he not sleep with every woman he sees is, and all he can say is that the request for H not to see OC may be unfair. Unfair??? Has any of this been fair to me? Sorry to be rambling but all this is just overwhelming me today. Can anyone help unravel all this and give it to me straight???
>>Can anyone help unravel all this and give it to me straight???<<
You can have my opinion, for whatever it is worth.
I would not believe you if you said that you were not incredibly hurt by all of this. To me, it is no wonder you feel so hurt. IMHO, your husband's behavior is totally and completely unacceptable. You don't treat people you love the way that he treats you. If he wants y'alls marriage to survive he will need to make some very big changes. If he doesn't, I don't believe that it will be possible for you (or anyone) to hang on for very much longer without doing yourself some permanent damage.
>>I give him a few minutes to start explaining and he says NOTHING<<
Not acceptable.
>>I ask what the hell all that was about, and he says she just wanted to know something about child support<<
Not acceptable.
>>All he can say is that he can't control where she goes<<
Not acceptable.
>>and seemed to basically not understand why I should be upset<<
Very, very not acceptable.
>>I really think he's just trying to drag this out so I'll either kick him out, or OW will tell him he can't see OC so he won't have to choose<<
Not acceptable.
>>H says that I don't understand how much it would hurt him not to see OC<<
Your H playing the victim here would be comical if it were not so completely unacceptable.
>>How much good can therapy do when all you do is lie?<<
In my case, individual counseling was much, much, much more helpful than couples counseling. My (then) wife lied through three couples counselors over the course of 2.5 years. It was worse than pointless. It helped to further undermine my marriage. It may have helped my (then) wife. I don't know. It did me much more harm than good. Individual counseling was far more helpful to me.
All I can say is that I am so very sorry you are going through this...so much pain...I can feel it in your words. You are in agony. I wish there were answers for you right now. In time, I do believe you will get your answers. Your answers lies in your H's choices...
I have walked in our shoes over 7 years ago... the difference was my H thought to be in love with OW and was very much bonded with his son.
That said:
your H's behaviors altho not acceptable to an 'outsider' may make sense if you believe he is torn and wracked with guilt. Believe me he is, or he would be with OW by now. I know your torments, I know your pain. But remember the more you push the more he will pull back.
think about what you would like to see happen. think about how to make it happen. Dialogue with your H - at least try. Bounderies are wonderful.... but.... when there is an innocent life in the triangle, bounderies are quite difficult if not impossible to achieve.
Would you like to be able to talk to OW and find out what her plans are?? Are you willing to wait it out so to speak? I am so very sorry to say - and I apologise if I come too strong - you are not a party to this. Your H, like mine, made a terrible decision which will resonate in your/our lives for years. He knows what he did. He knows he has inflicted pure and undiluted pain and agony to you - his wife, and partner in life. A lot of his actions are driven by an immense guilt which may take years for him to come to term with.
I wish I could take your pain away - but if you want to get to the other side still hand in hand with your H the way to go is thru the pain not around it. The journey may be brutal at times. Affair recovery is not for the faint of hearts - but when there is a child it is even harder, and love as love is not enough.
<< Has any of this been fair to me? Sorry to be rambling but all this is just overwhelming me today. Can anyone help unravel all this and give it to me straight???>>
None of the A was fair to you. Our Hs and the OWs made choices. They are responsible for their choices. We are responsible for our choices. I know it may be hard now, but you need to realize truly the OC is innocent. The OC had no choice. I don't know how it will work if your H continues to see the OC or not. I know I cannot tolerate my H around the OW, period. Right or wrong, I have came to terms with the fact that at least for now and maybe forever, I don't know, if it is more important for the OCs sake or for any reason for him to be around the OW, I will leave this relationship. That is my choice and I am willing to accept the consequences of my choice. You need to take time, take care of yourself, and think about what your choice will be. There will be many different choices. The main one being leave or stay. But there will be many others leading up to that choice. My H has 2 OC with the same OW, ages 9 and 16, and has been seeing them secretly for years. I know I don't know all the truth and maybe I never will. I know that I want the OC to be included in all of my H's life. In my case, the OW refuses to allow my H to see the OC if I am around. The older OC also blames me for the situation. Again, that is her choice. I choose not to harbor any bitterness toward either OC regarding the A. It wasn't their choice. In your situation, the OC is younger and will not realize a lot of things. If you are able, I would suggest that you set aside dealing with the OC right now, and focus on your marriage. In time, you may be blessed with the OC becoming an important part of your family. It has only been 4 months since my d-day and I am having a good day today. I wish I could offer you more but I don't know for sure what I am going to do right now either. Instead of looking at the big choice, I am trying to look at areas right now that I can make small choices.
<<your H's behaviors altho not acceptable to an 'outsider' may make sense if you believe he is torn and wracked with guilt. Believe me he is, or he would be with OW by now. I know your torments, I know your pain. But remember the more you push the more he will pull back. >>
thanks kat, I think I can see what you are saying. I don't want to push the issue about meeting the OC right now. I think a time will come however when my H will have to make the choice regarding me meeting the younger one. The OW says never. My H allows her to have total control over this. For now, that is bearable. Our problems are not about the OC. And I don't want to get sidetracked.
<<think about what you would like to see happen. think about how to make it happen. Dialogue with your H - at least try. Bounderies are wonderful.... but.... when there is an innocent life in the triangle, bounderies are quite difficult if not impossible to achieve. >>
thanks again
<<Affair recovery is not for the faint of hearts - but when there is a child it is even harder, and love as love is not enough.>>
Thank you all so much for your thoughts, and I will consider all of them. I do understand that OC is innocent in all of this, and I wish him no ill will, I just don't feel any responsibility to look out for his interests as that is his parents' job (poor kid). I have spoken with OW and she has shared her thoughts on child support, visitation, etc. and I know she wants H to be part of her son's life. I don't have a problem talking to her, but I don't know how much I can really trust what she says as she has her own agenda in this and will do anything to get H to see OC. All I am asking from H at this point is for us to decide on a specific period of time during which he will have NC with OW/OC - a time for us to work on "us" and try to rebuild the trust that has been lost and for him to prove to me that our marriage is really important to him. At the end of that period we can re-examine the situation and decide on further action regarding OC. The problem with this is that H has a history of doing what he wants, when he wants regardless of promises or obligations. He is very passive-aggressive and I think will basically tell me anything to just try not to rock the boat. I had a counseling session today (H couldn't make it because of work), and we talked about that. For the first time I felt like our counselor really "got" why it is so important for me for there to be NC with H & OC for awhile. I really wonder if H is just trying to see how far he can push me before either 1)I just give in and he keeps getting exactly what he wants; or 2)I throw him out and let him off the hook for having to make a decision about all this. I don't know if any of this is making much sense, but I'm just so hurt and confused. The A was bad enough, but I keep thinking that if he really wanted to make things right with me he would be doing everything he could to do what I need instead of continuing to think of himself. I'm seriously considering not pushing the issue for now, with the holidays and my dad is having surgery in January so I don't want to put any more stress on the rest of my family by bringing all this out now. Then, after that is all done to re-evaluate how that time was and end things if there hasn't been some real improvement. I just need to keep working up the strength to stick to that if it still seems like the right solution when the time comes.
