We have a new Charlie and he needs our help. I moved this from the member's forum. Sorry you have had to come looking for us but welcome.

I'm going crazy, and scared to death - need a woman's thoughts
December 27 2005 at 2:04 PM Charlie (Login baldguy2)

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A woman called me Dec 2 and told me my wife was having an affair with her husband, a realtor. After I got home, got drunk,puked, cried and everything else, she says it was only 3 nights out with 2 of her girlfriends (and this guy)and once he walked her out to her car after work and kissed her, but she pulled away. This story changed (after I had called the cheating man's wife back desperate for the truth) when she told me that she kissed him. This story changed again to a 3 minute kiss. (She's never kissed me for 3 minutes). She's always come home late from work (later than it takes to drive directly home, has always had a P.O. Box.

I know I'm rambling but I can't get past the obsessing. She says they kissed for 3 minutes, but she didn't like it (he tasted like smoke, it didn't feel right, etc.) But I also found out that they text messaged each other, and one of his text messages was: What are you wearing? her reply, "A smile. And then she tells me she knows she has a flirting problem, but that it didn't go any further than the kiss, that she didn't love him. We have gone to the therapist once, I've gone to mental health, I'm taking anxiety pills and I want to severe the connection between my heart and my head by blowing my brains out. Are there any women out there that can explain to me that a woman can kiss a man other than her husband for 2-3 minutes and not be attracted, not know it was coming, not want it?

It's been 25 days, and I don't feel any better. She was a saint to me. She was always so fervently against infidelity, yet she had no compuction going out to drinks with a guy she knew was screwing around with 5 other women in town. Can someone tell me is there any truth? Someone please tell me there is someone or something to believe. I hope I live long enough to find out.

P.S. I don't drink, take drugs, never laid a finger on her, make decent money, cook every meal, do the shopping,take the kids to sports and karage and clean the floors, in addition to doing the guy stuff like change the oil and mow the yard. She even says what happened had nothing to do with our relationship. I am crying in public place while I type this. Someone please help me.

Charlie

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I know how you feel. I just came from tehe OW's house myself. I felt compelled to drive by there. I'm not sure why. It has been a little over 2 months since I found out. It's a bit better, but still pretty much constantly on my mind. I want to get past it. I'm hoping the New Year will help me do that. Keep posting here. It will help you.

Charlie,

What did the cheating man's wife tell you when you called her back? Does she know more than you still?

Hello Charlie and welcome,

I dont know what to tell you. What is your gut telling you, Charlie? Most of us here have learned to trust ours. And it is not likely that your wife will tell you the whole truth if she is cheating. Even though my gut was telling me that the OW on the other end of the phone was telling me the truth, H sat there, looking me right in the eyes and lied...deny, minumize, and defer blame, that's what cheaters do. My H said that someone was out to hurt him by hurting me with these lies. What a crock!

If she kissed him, went out to drinks with him, and was texting him, there is the possibility that they are having an affair. And if they havent, they were certainly of their way to having one. Either way, I would still feel betrayed, just as you are feeling now. I am of the mind that it doesnt necessarily have to physical to be an affair, it can be emotional affair. And an emotionally affair is just as bad, not to mention that most emotional affairs eventually become full-blown physical affairs.

So I would keep my eye on the situation and maybe talk to that guys wife again, and maybe even do some snooping. You have a right to know the truth Charlie, and you have a reasonable doubt, which I feel entitles you to be suspicious. So dont feel bad for checking up on your hunches and following your gut. That's my advice for what it's worth.

Feel free to post and ask all the questions you like. This is great place to vent and get your feelings out. We have all been where you and we understand. We are here to offer as much support an comfort as we can, and some advice now and then.

Take care,
Carol~

"I'm taking anxiety pills and I want to severe the connection between my heart and my head by blowing my brains out...I hope I live long enough to find out."

Charlie, I'm very sorry you've had to come looking for a group like this but it is a great place to begin healing. I am also a Charlie on this site, yet a female Charlie. Please give yourself some time and don't do anything harsh.

"Are there any women out there that can explain to me that a woman can kiss a man other than her husband for 2-3 minutes and not be attracted, not know it was coming, not want it?"

No, because I wouldn't believe everything she tells me at this point. It is common to continue the lying for a while Charlie. Sometimes it is to spare the spouses feelings and sometimes they continue because they've gotten so used to lying that they don't know how to stop. Unfortunately sometimes it is to continue their affair although I'm not saying she is. It is common for the betrayed spouse to feel completely and utterly devastated too. Many of us describe the feelings when catching your spouse in an affair to be worse than the death of a loved one. It is common to lose or gain weight, feel like getting revenge either to a person or to have a revenge affair, (please talk to us if your feeling like acting on either of those - it will only hurt you more, some of us have been there), it is common for you to have a diffucult time performing at work or being a good parent. This is horribly devastating and your spouse cannot understand the pain unless you had done the same to her. I'd like to tell you one thing though, regardless of the outcome, you WILL feel better with time. I know that doesn't make you feel any better right now because your world is shattered. Most of us have been there but there is life after an affair - I assure you. I, myself, have never been happier but my ex and I did separate almost 2 years ago. It was extremely scary when it was all happening, especially since I have a child with a handicapp. I think I could have stayed in our marriage after his affair but his lying continued and he had an addictive personality.

"It's been 25 days, and I don't feel any better. She was a saint to me. She was always so fervently against infidelity"

I also thought my spouse would never have had an (A) affair. Many, if not all of us did back when it happened. Most betrayers seem like very normal people when you talk to them. After being on this site for so long, I've come to realize that good people do bad things. Charlie, you're not likely to get over this very quickly - although each passing day you may begin to feel better, this may be on your mind for a long time. There are many things your W can do to help you heal. Please ask us about that when your ready. It is late tonight and I need some sleep or else I'd post some of the things. Any questions you feel like asking, we will try to help you. There are many years worth of wisdom at this site regarding affairs and I felt it was invaluable to me at the time I caught my spouse in his A.

"P.S. I don't drink, take drugs, never laid a finger on her, make decent money, cook every meal, do the shopping,take the kids to sports and karage and clean the floors, in addition to doing the guy stuff like change the oil and mow the yard. She even says what happened had nothing to do with our relationship."

You sound like a great guy and your W is right, it had NOTHING to do with you. It was a selfish thing that she did and there was something that this other man gave her that she felt she needed at the time. That could be attention, validation, a boost to her ego, etc. It doesn't matter what it was, it still hurts pretty badly. You do have an advantage in my opinion, at least your wife is admitting it wasn't your relationship. Many try to lay blame on the spouse for their A to try to justify why they did it. We hear every excuse in the book here and one of the biggest is "I don't love you" or "never loved you" or any other version of those words you can think of. Another is your too fat, skinny, opinionated, controlling, blah, blah, blah. We've heard it all here. There is NO justification for an A - ever.

"I am crying in public place while I type this. Someone please help me."

I honestly don't know anyone who hasn't cried when this had happened to them, although I'm sure there are some. You have every right to cry, this is one of the most devastating things that may happen to you. A word of caution, please stay away from alcohol at this time, esp. if you are on meds. It can really depress you even more. Try to get some exercise if you can. That is what helped me with a great deal of stress back then.

Hope you can get at least a tiny bit of sleep, it is very common to not be able to for a few weeks, give or take.

Sorry this has happened to you.

Charlie (the female)

Charlie

Welcome,
I am also fairly new to this site and my wife also had an affair. What Anonymous (the other Charlie) said is right on the mark.

You need to remember when someone does something it is because of them, not you, I have my own ideas why my wife did what she did. She has put the blame on several things but when it boils right down to it people do what they do because they want to and they are selfish. They are not thinking of anyone else but themselves. They are not thinking of the kids or the marriage or their spouse.

My wife was in an environment at work where there were coworkers that were having an affair and were getting away with it. The work place appeared to condone it. She was getting close to fifty and was having a really tuff time excepting it, to the point that I thought she should have talked to a professional. Regardless of why they do it remember it was because of them, not you.

You might want to look at dear peggys site.

http://www.dearpeggy.com/

This site helped me and it might help you.

I am so sorry also that you have come to this sight but i can assure you it will help. I found out about my W affair a little over a month ago and i have pics of her with this other man. The first thing i would advise is to get a grip on your emotions and yes this is easier said than done. Stay away from the alchohol and med it is not a good combination. You can not make rational descisions buy letting your emotions take over.think things thru before doing them keep your mind busy on other things clean the house work on the car i am breaking from cleaning out my garage as i type this.The lies your S will tell will be unbeleivable. My W first told me she was drunk at that it only happened once. then it become we meet three times and i got out of heryesterday that it spaned over a year or so. How many times sex was involved i dont know that i will ever know.
My W has lost everything family,home she will get her clothes and car and that is it. I wish you the best of luck and again stay busy exercise do something try not to dwell on it all the time because it will drive you nuts

Sorry for not thanking you earlier, my therapist told me to stay away from these kind of sites, that they don't help, but I feel drawn back to people who don't want to hurt me. I am starting to feel a little better, but I'm still scared to death when I read about how some of you keep getting additions to your stories. Thank you all for the support though. God Bless each and every one of you.

Fire your therapist. He/she hasn't got a clue.

Chris.

I agree with Chris. Fire your therapist. People who have had to face blunt force trauma such as infidelity need support from others who have experienced it and made it through it. A good therapist would recommend a site like this.

Yep. Definitely fire the therapist. Find one who will support your decisions and attempts to find support. It's tough enough to find support. You don't need a therapist who undermines your efforts to find it.

Did s/he give any reasons that "it doesn't help"?

was that each situation is different, and that I don't know the frame of mind of each person who posts messages here. She also seems to be guiding me away from trying to find out (obsessing?) the WHOLE truth. I don't know how you guys get from today to tomorrow NOT knowing the full extent of what went on. My gut tells me it does matter, that without the truth, how can trust be rebuilt?
Also, there was an excellent post a couple of days ago entitled "Forgiving" (I think) but I can't find it on any of the boards. Maybe I'm being a typical male and it's right in front of me, but if someone could repost it I would be most appreciative. Thanks.

Charlie

Hi Charlie! I too obsessed over wanting to know every detail but now I realize I never will. My H is trying to find out why he did what he did though. He says he owes me answers. Anyway, I was able to forgive my H last Thursday. It was after a church class & I fought the notion on the way home & all of a sudden I could feel the change & I forgave him. It was a gift to myself & our marriage. So many good things have happened after that & I look at my H the way I did before the A. I was never going to forgive him & was never going to be able to look at him the same way but all of that has changed.I called him on the phone when I got home from church & told him i forgave him. I hope you & wife can get the results in your relationship that you desire.I think we have to realize we will never know alot of the details. We could never know what it was like for the WS & OM/OW. We will never know what all they did or how they felt about us or each other.It's o.k. to get as many questions as you can answered but I am realizing there is a time when you just have to realize you won't know everything. I still need answers but I am at peace with not knowing much right now. I don't want the A to take over my life anymore. I am more than my H's A.

>>the reason she gave . . . was that each situation is different<<

No doubt about that. That might mean that in your particular case, you might be helped more by knowing the information that is important to you, rather than the information that your partner decides would be appropriate for you at this point.

>>She also seems to be guiding me away from trying to find out (obsessing?) the WHOLE truth. I don't know how you guys get from today to tomorrow NOT knowing the full extent of what went on. My gut tells me it does matter, that without the truth, how can trust be rebuilt?<<

My gut tells me the same. So does my head. This is a common theme with many therapists. As I understand it, it is based on the notion (to me, somewhat misguided) that knowing "the details" is damaging to a betrayed spouse at a time when they are already very vulnerable. I think some therapists also fear that some emotionally abusive wayward spouses may, out of anger, use information about "the details" of their affair as a way to batter their vulnerable partners. Therapists with these views tend to minimize the significance of the "need to know" and regard it as little more than "an obsession" that needs to be set aside so that the real work of recovery can begin.  

As you probably know, some therapists (and authors) are more sympathetic to a betrayed spouses "need to know" for the exactly the reason that you give: "without the truth, how can trust be rebuilt?". In my mind at least (and alot of other people I might add), the part of the betrayal that is so damaging is the dishonesty. The sexual aspects of an affair are secondary. Also, I worry that formerly wayward spouses tend to grab hold of any justification for continuing to lie (by ommission or by commission). In my experience, that can do alot of extra damage to a marriage after an affair has been discovered. Still, it's probably worth being cautious about asking for details about sex. People often find those images haunting.

"""""without the truth, how can trust be rebuilt?""""

I told my wife that exact same thing a couple of days after d-day. "Your willingness to tell me the truth is your first step toward rebuilding trust with me." My wife was reluctant for a couple more weeks but our counselor supported my "need to know" with a caution that I had to try to keep myself under control as I was probably going to hear some very hurtful stuff. Then my wife started telling. The counselor was right, it hurt like hell. Asking my own questions to my wife who was willing to tell was like torturing myself but yet I needed to know. This is all very normal and very common for most.

Charlie, I think Tex is trying to direct you to the "Hit by a 2 X 4" thread started by Barbarapat because you said,

"Also, there was an excellent post a couple of days ago entitled "Forgiving" (I think) but I can't find it on any of the boards. Maybe I'm being a typical male and it's right in front of me, but if someone could repost it I would be most appreciative. Thanks."

From another typical male.

Charlie, I didn't have a lot of time to write, and didn't have your therapist's reasoning.

I still say fire the therapist.

One of the ways in which men and women (IN GENERAL) are different is that we men don't typically have large emotional support networks. We generally rely on our wives for emotional support.

At a time when we CANNOT rely on our wives, it is amazingly comforting to know that other men feel exactly as we do. If you, me, Quinn, H2C, and Tex were all in a room, we'd talk about sports, weather, cars...anything but our feelings. (This is a bad example, because Quinn, H2C, and me HAVE sat in a room, but bear with me...)

For me, and for many men who've posted on "these kind of sites" while I've been around them, the value is in learning to identify, to articulate, and to share feelings openly with other men. Above all else, the value lies in knowing we are NOT alone in those feelings...and what others have done to cope with them, good and bad.

Being isolated at this time of your life is exactly the wrong thing. Boards like this one (and many of the people here) saved my sanity and helped me to see more clearly what I was facing in my marriage.

Charlie, your attitude and "mileage" may vary. All I can tell you is that I have long found these people here helpful in coping with the aftermath of infidelity.

Regards, Chris.

Has anyone noticed that Charlie started out asking for help from women and it has come from mostly men? How did that happen?

"therapist told me to stay away from these kind of sites"

"these kind of sites"

??

My suggestion is fire the therapist but first ask if they've lived through this experience themselves.

Not getting the info that you want and need has proven to be a bad thing in recovery according to Peggy Vaughan's survey on this.

Have you read on www.dearpeggy.com ? She has survey results on the "NEED TO KNOW". She has also done a lot of work looking into good therapists and why they are good.

"She also seems to be guiding me away from trying to find out (obsessing?) the WHOLE truth."

http://www.dearpeggy.com/expect.html

http://www.dearpeggy.com/com038.html

http://www.dearpeggy.com/help.html



http://www.johnfishbein.com/FeelBetterFast/Fishbein/how.to.select.html

As it states on the bottom of this page, "Remember: When you hire a therapist, he or she is your employee--you are the boss."

I would also say "fire the therapist" Find one who believes that anything you want/need to know is what will help you get over this. I was also the type who asked just about everything. My ex and I were trying to make it work for over a year after his A and I thought at the time doing very well. While hearing some of it did hurt, my thoughts were far worse than what he told me. His ability to answer my questions helped me trust him more. Unfortunately, I just didn't have the knowledge that he was still lying at the time and never really came completely clean - sigh!

Charlie

My marriage counsellor actually thought this site was a good idea, especially since I have no family around me for support. The funny thing was that he started asking me what you guys on the board thought when I asked him a question. He said so many of the same things that everyone here told me. I found that very comforting and helpful. And just knowing that others have been through what you have and know how you're feeling and that you're not crazy or alone is extremely comforting, although you wish no one ever had to go through what we are going through.

I look at it sort of like AA. We all have a story, similar yet unique. We all feel the same pain. We all gain insight, comfort, support, and knowledge by sharing our stories. How can that be so bad? If you were an alcoholic or the spouse of an alcoholic would he tell you not to go to AA meetings? I doubt it.

I hope you are doing better.
Carol~

Every situation is different, and no you don't know the frame of mind of each person who posts messages here. I think everyone realizes that. Posting here is for support and for being able to vent and share things with people who have experienced the similiar trauma. Yes, it is trauma. I would question if anyone was a BS and said they were always in their right mind all the time. It just doesn't happen. It is a life changing event.

It is here 24/7 when you need to vent and receive honest feedback from people who have went through the same thing. It is not a substitute for professional help.

I would also fire the therapist.

I would add...most of the people who are telling you to fire the therapist have spent a fair amount of time with therapists. It's not as if any of us are anti-therapy.

Chris.