I am needing some advice on the best way to deal with OC. There are 2 by the same OW. A girl who turned 16 on Dec 19th and a 9 year old boy.
I am a Christian and my heart's desire is that if I am to remain married to my H is that both of these children become part of our family. We have a 14 year old daughter. My step-daughter is 21, married, lives in another state and my H still has not told her. My d-day was in August 2005.
My H says OW will only let him see OC if I am not around. I told my H my only requirements for any visitation with the OC, where 1) he never set foot in the home of the OW or her mother ever again 2) visitations was to be arranged around our daughters schedule-he could visit them when she was already busy--not a an unreasonable request because our daughter is involved in many activities. With the exception of OC birthday, he has held to the terms the last 2 months. I don't have a problem with the visit to take the OC out to dinner on her birthday and told my H I would be disappointed if he didn't plan to do something like that for her birthday.
It is very obvious OW and older OC are very bitter and blame me for the reason why my H does not visit them at their home and does not visit as often as he used to. I do not feel responsible for any pain caused to either of them. My H says he blames me and the OW for why he does not see the OC as often as he likes. I said excuse me, I was not responsible for your decision to sleep with her and just because she got pregnant does not make it right for you to be in her home. You should have never been there period. You made the choice. I only told you what would be acceptable to me for you to remain in our home. Take responsibility for your own choices.
I had purchased a gold bracelet with the OC's name engraved on it for her birthday. I asked only that my H give it to her in private, not in front of ILs and OC can do whatever she wants with it, open it, not open it, throw it in the trash whatever. My H refused to give it to her and said because he knew she would not accept it. I said fine, I will just have a florist deliver it to her school then. My H said he would not recommend it.
I thought about how the counselor said it would be easy for our daughter to deal with this, the more I am able to deal with it. Although paternity has not been established, my H has accepted these children as his, therefore they are my step-children. I thought about my 22 year old step-daughter. I would never blame her or treat her any differently based upon anything her mother did or anything my H did. So I felt that it would be wrong for me to treat the OC any differently. I had decided I would have the present delivered along with roses for her 16 birthday as my olive branch. The decision to accept or reject would be the OCs and I would be able to have a peace about my actions and I would demonstrate Christian love and a right attitude for our daugher. My daughter went with me to the florist but chose to stay in the car. I explained to her what I was doing and why. I decided not to sign the card, because I did not want to upset the OC at school. I reason my gift could be the receipt of the gift and she could have to joy of receiving the anonymous gift. I was sure when she got home, her mother would call the florist to see who sent it. I specifically asked the florist to put it under my name only. Our account has both names on it. I did not want to be deceptive in any way. The florist was unable to deliver it on Dec 19 because the mother had let the OC skip school. The florist agree to attempt delivery the next day and I agreed it was Ok for them to call the school first to make sure she was not absent. The flowers were delivered with the gift. When I got home that day around 6pm, the flowers and gift were on my front porch. I brought the flowers in and placed them on our kitchen table. Our daughter asked what they were for and all I said was 'my kindness'. I was not upset, I felt sad but did not show it to our daughter. Our daughter saw the box the bracelet was in and the sweet 16 balloon so I did not say any more. I put the bracelet up and the balloon up and left the roses on our kitchen table as a center piece. When my H came home, I thought he looked at the roses (later he said he didn't see them) but said nothing. So I said nothing. The next day, we went out to eat while our daughter went to the movies with a friend. My H told me the OW called him at work that day and had said the OC never received them, she was absent on Tuesday, the school called her and she went to the school to pick them up, called the florist from the school to find out who they were from, and then called the OC at home and asked her what to do. The OW said the OC said to send them back and the OW drove down and put them on the porch. The OW told my H that she told the school office that I had sent them and told them to make a record of it and that it was a form of harrassment. That part I found amusement in and tried not to laugh(I can just imagine how the conversation may have went, and who is Ann?, since the OW refuses to acknowledge that I am the OC stepmother and insisted that I am my H's wife in name only and all I have is a piece of paper). Anyway, my H said (emphasis said, I can't confirm it) that he told OW that you can't have the cake without the icing (assumably referring to me as the icing) I questioned whether he actually said it or not and asked what her response was. He said she just went 'huh'. And then treatened that I had better not do anything like that again. My H said to me he told me not to do it but I wouln't listen and I said you did not, you said you didn't recommend it, don't do it and don't recommend it are two different things. My H then accused me of twisting words, I told him the next time you want to tell me not to do something you had better make it clear and say I am telling you not to do it. I told him it was my olive branch and while sad it was really irrelevant what the response was, the OC are not the problem and have never been the problem, our marriage is the problem and we need to work on our marriage. All of this was discussed in a calm manner as we went from the restaurant to another store and traveled by car. It is strange but this has bgiven me a certain amount of peace. I thought before it was my H who did not want me around the OC. Neither the OW or my H are adult enough to explain to the OC that their actions are the cause of the situation, but 16 is old enough to make your own decisions.
I am unable to hold this against the OC. Even though she is old enough, to be responsible for her own decisions, I must consider how she was raised. Our daughter, however, I can tell feels differently. Her attitude has changed from it is not the OC fault, I don't know what to do, to I do no want to be around them. The may be related to dad but they are not related to me. I counsel our daughter that you do not have to have contact with them but do not let bitterness grow in your heart, it will only hurt you.
Two days later, I receive a letter in the mail, with no return address. Our daughter hands it to me and looks at me waiting to see what it is. I had a feeling it was from the OW before I opened it. I opened it and it was signed by the OC. The older OC had signed her name and her brother's name. It basically said she didn't appreciate my actions, it better not happen again, they did not want me in any part of their life and they did not want to be in any part of mine. It sounded more like the OW had dictated it rather than a 13 or 16 year old wrote it. (my H insists the 16 year old's mental age is more like a 13 year old). I refuse to believe the 16 year old is speaking for the 9 year old. Our daughter asked about the letter as I was reading it and I thought for a moment what to say and I just said it is a letter to me from older OC's name. I thought about whether to allow our daughter to read it or not and finally did let her read it. I told my daughter that I did think that it may have been dictated to the OC and that I did not believe that the younger OC had anything to do with it. I pointed out the letter was addressed to me and not to her. I told her that it did make me feel sad for the OC to have so much anger and to not have anyone to help her to realize a lot of it was misplaced. I said we needed to continue to pray for them. Reminding her that who are we if we only pray for those we love and those who love us. Our daughter asked if I was going to show it to her dad. I told her I did not know. I felt the intend of the letter was possibly to interfere with our holiday to create stress and turmoil in our home (it came Dec 23) and that I was not going to allow it to have any effect on my Christmas holiday and that she should not let it effect hers. I told her I may show her dad before Christmas or maybe after Christmas or maybe not at all, I had to think about it. It wasn't addressed to her dad and I had only showed it to her because she had asked and I did not want to play any part in deceiving her about anything. Although, I had already bought Christmas presents for both OC, I had decided that if the birthday gift was not accepted, my responsibility ended there until such time as the older OC took a step. I told our daughter both OC are welcome in our home. I told her I had discussed the OC with her dad and he thought in time the younger OC would ask to come home with him and that he would tell the mother he wanted to come and if the older OC didn't it was her decision and her loss to not be more involved with our family. I told our daughter, really the only person this letter should have an effect on is your dad. He will no longer be able to convince himself the younger OC did not have any knowledge of me, even if he had no part of the letter. Also, part of his image of the OW and OC as been without fault and being kind and considerate of others would be shattered. He would have to accept reality.
I ended up telling my H that evening that I received a letter. I told him it was mailed after he had the phone converstation with the OW about the cake and the icing based on the postmark. I told him I had considered not showing it to him at all but then thought that would be doing exactly what I had asked him not to do. I told him how I thought about waiting to tell him but if the situation were reversed I would not want him to wait to tell me. I asked if he wished to read it. He said that was up to me. I let him read it. I told him since the letter was addressed to me, it really was a private matter between me and the older OC. On his part, I did not wish him to even acknowledge the receipt of the letter or discuss it with anyone, including his parents. If the older OC, asked him about it I requested that he discuss it with her only in private and to tell her the truth about anything she asked.
The next day, my H asked me when a good time would be for him to take the OC to his parents for the holidays. He said his parents had asked and he had told them that he did not know that he would have to check with me to see what plans I had made (this is hard for me to believe , like the cake/icing statment but if he actually said it, it gives me hope that things will change).
I told him Christmas Eve, 5:30pm, and said I would make arrangements for our daughter to be occupied because this could be an exception. Saturday morning, my H, our daughter, my step-daughter and son-in-law went and had a family picture made and went out to eat. (without the refusal of the gift I would have never arrange the family portrait) My H, our daughter and I went lst minute shopping and came home to wrap presents. My H actually wrapped the presents I had bought for both OC. I think that may be the only things they got from him other than he also gave the older OC $20 in a card. I had told him how much I had paid for the birthstone bracelet for the older OC and said he could use it as a present if he wanted. Otherwise I was going to return it. I had bought matchbox cars and a wallet and had told my H I had planned to put $10 inside the wallet for the younger OC. As my H was wrapping the wallet, I asked my H if he remember to put money in it. He had forgotten but he did after I reminded him. Our daughter saw him wrapping the bracelet and asked what it was. I answered and said a birthstone bracelet. I can't remember if I said who it was for or not. I had bought the same birthstone bracelet (different months) for our daughter for Christmas also. Our daughter was still wrapping presents when my H left. About 5 minutes after he left our daughter asked me where her dad went. I told her to pick up N--- and D---- and take them to J-- and M---. I used the names fo the OC and my ILs. She didn't say anything. Later I took our daughter to my mothers to make deviled eggs with my sister as planned and came home to clean house and prepare things in advance for Christmas dinner. My H had offered to pick our daughter up when her returned and I said that would help me. He said he would call me when he left ILs and I said no that is OK, just call our daughter about 15 minutes before you get there so she will be ready. On Monday, my H told me that our daughter had called the ILs twice. Since she had not mentioned it to me I asked what did she say she was calling for. He said both times she called and asked her dad not to come yet because her aunt still was not there. He said after the second call, the older OC said she wanted to leave because she wanted to go home to open presents. This was around 9:30pm. My H said that our daughter called him again on his cell phone when my aunt arrived to ask him to wait longer. He said he would call as he got closer to town and if she still wasn't ready he would just go home and she could call when she wanted him to come and get her. (My ILs live about 45minutes to an hour from us, my mother lives about 20 minutes in the opposite direction)
Sorry for such a long post. I hope I have done the right thing. Please tear apart everything I have done, examine it and tell me if you see where I have made a mistake. I am more at peace now than I have been since d-day. I know next month will be much harder because I only told my H the terms for him just living with us for the 2 months after d-day while I thought about what I was going to do. It has been 4 months and there will be more boundaries I am going to establish for the long term if I choose to remain in the marriage. I am yet to make that committment.
This message has been edited by robbedof16years on Dec 28, 2005 11:38 AM
I am quite conflicted by your post, dear Ann. On one hand I am totally in awe of you, on the other, well, on the other I do not understand why you would force yourself on these children...let's not forget they are not - legally - your step-children and you may never know the content of the conversations the mother had all thruout the years you were left in the dark...
I understand - I intellectually understand, but emotionally I don't understand your need to make the children part of your family. The gift refusal does not surprise me - that young girl in accepting it may have felt she would be unloyal to her mother. Ann, you have no way of knowing the kind of stories and unfortunatly the kind of lies these children have been fed thru the years.
Further, I desagree with the rest of the family. They, in my book, have been colluding for years behind your back.... You are after all the legal wife of their son, the mother of their grand child(ren).
Ann, I am so sad - for you, for your daughter, for these children even for your H who preferred to hide behind lies and ghosts....
I apologise if I sounded a little harsh. I am more 'upset' about the adults behaviors than the children's....
I agree with everything you've wrote. I think I was trying to say that about the in laws a few posts back. The way they and Ann's H are handling this is just awful. They are not supporting Ann whatsoever.
Ann, I can't blame you for being horribly confused. This situation is awful. I honestly can't see how you will ever feel better Ann if your H doesn't step up to the bat and talk to OW, these children, and HIS parents about the way things will/should be. You are being expected to stay in a marriage where he doesn't care about your feelings.
<< I do not understand why you would force yourself on these children>>
My intent was not to force myself on the children. I have respected the OW's wishes for me not to be around during visitation. But and if my H is to maintain a relationship with the OC and remain married to me, at some point in time, unless he chooses to greatly restrict physical visits with them, they will need to at a minimum be introduced to me. I do not expect them to accept me. I however, if I choose to remain married to my husband must accept the fact they exist. I cannot trust anything my H or the OW says about anything. I refuse to remain married to my H if he goes anywhere near the OW regardless of the reason ( sorry, maybe one day I will get over that but not now). Sadly, he has chosen to not attend any basketball games of the younger OC and has said he feels it is my fault. I disagree. I never said he could not go. He made the choice to not go instead of allowing me to quietly accompany him. I agreed I would make no effort to contact them at any public event. Had my H not been so spineless and would have simply offered the gift in private to the 16 year old and told her it was given in kindness, I would not have sent it to the school. The 16 year old has known about me since 5th grade.
<<...let's not forget they are not - legally - your step-children and you may never know the content of the conversations the mother had all thruout the years you were left in the dark...
I understand - I intellectually understand, but emotionally I don't understand your need to make the children part of your family. The gift refusal does not surprise me - that young girl in accepting it may have felt she would be unloyal to her mother. Ann, you have no way of knowing the kind of stories and unfortunatly the kind of lies these children have been fed thru the years.>>
If paternity was established, I believe legally they would be my step-children. If I am mistaken, please let me know what they would be to me, if it was confirmed my H was the biological father. Since my H has chosen to acknowledge them as his, I feel I have no other choice but to view them as step-children (if I stay married). Not because anyone told me I had to but because that is who I am. The children are not at fault. You are right I don't think I will ever know the complete truth. I do not need to make them part of my family if I divorce. Even if I remain married, I do not need to make them part of my family. This is the only way I know how to deal with the situation in order to avoid bitterness growing in my heart. I think that is why I have a peace now. My need was not to actually involve them but to at least extend the hand of peace. It was not an easy thing to do to buy either of them gifts. It was not an easy thing to do to send the gift and flowers for her birthday. I forced myself to purchase the gifts, and I felt a burden lifted from me after I did. I expected a negative reaction. How could they have any other given the way they were raised. But I do not believe to ignore or pretend I do not exist is beneficial to anyone, not to my H, ILs, the OW or the OC.
As the counselor told me it is obvious I hold myself to a very high standard as a Christian. I cannot hold others to the same standard and since he told me that I have recognized that. To the same extent, I will not lower my standards for myself either.
<<The gift refusal does not surprise me - that young girl in accepting it may have felt she would be unloyal to her mother>>
It doesn't surprise me either. I know that our daughter after meeting the OC was very torn about what to do. I assured her whatever her decision was she could in no way offend or betray me. If she wanted to accept them as siblings, if she just wanted to get to know the 16 year old and try to be friends, or if she wanted to have nothing to do with them, whatever she wanted to do was fine. I only counseled her we must try to forgive others and must be careful not to allow bitterness to grow in our hearts. Since in my opinion the OW is deficient in moral values, I seriously doubted she would offer the same counsel to her daughter.
If limited contact is what they want that is fine with me. However the opposite is true. The older OC has already requested taking my H's last name (my 22 year old step-daughter still does not know) since in her mind everyone knows now. I told my H if she submits to a paternity test and paternity is confirmed fine but if he swears paternity without the test that was the end of our relationship. They all expect time with them to increase not decrease and to hell with me and our daughter. Unless they wish to be included in some of our family activities, time with them will decrease because every minute spent with them is time not spent with our daughter. When our daughter is out of the house and off to college I will probably be more accepting to more visits but for now the only way that is going to be possible is if my H decides to leave. I will not back down on this. I recognize there is pain on all sides but my priority is for our daughters (plural because this includes my step-daughter with whom I have had a relationship with since she was 18 months old) and myself and then my H.
<<I apologise if I sounded a little harsh. I am more 'upset' about the adults behaviors than the children's....>>
No apology needed. The purpose of my post was to get honest feedback. I value your insight and opinion since you have been in a similar position. Do you have any contact or involvement with the OC in your life? If I remember correctly, you have known about the OC since the OC was very young. I can not imagine my H being involved with the OC and me being excluded completely for the next 20 years or the rest of my life. There will be graduations, weddings, births of grandchildren, and future holidays. If these children were born before I married my H, I know I could be more accepting of the exclusion. But they weren’t. It is not so much that either of the OC have to accept me, it is more a choice my H is going to have to make.
Charlie
<<Ann, I can't blame you for being horribly confused. This situation is awful. I honestly can't see how you will ever feel better Ann if your H doesn't step up to the bat and talk to OW, these children, and HIS parents about the way things will/should be. You are being expected to stay in a marriage where he doesn't care about your feelings. >>
I feel more confident and more clear minded now than I have ever been since d-day. I don’t feel confused regarding the OC. Maybe I am but I can’t see it right now. I still haven’t made a decision to leave or stay in the marriage. For now, I think I feel I must give it more time. My H has been more considerate of my feelings in the last month. He has opened up on a couple of occasion and has shared his feelings with me. I have witnessed him taking small steps to pull away from his parents. No major steps but I must give him credit for even small steps. He has mentioned that he may leave the salvage yard (my FIL owns the business) and get another job in the spring. I see these things and I must give him credit but there is still part of me that questions whether they are just words because he thinks that is what I want to hear or are his actions and words coming from his heart.
On d-day when I confronted my H, he did not expect me to stay in the marriage. His response was I understand if you want a divorce. He was shocked when I asked him what he wanted. Before anyone blasts me about what do I want, I want reconciliation if that is possible and that is why I asked him what he wanted. If he would have said he wanted out, we would already be divorced. But he said he would like to remain married if that was possible. I told him I did not know if it was possible but I was willing to try to work things out if he was willing. Terms were established for my H to remain in our household for the next two months. I made it clear the terms where only temporary living arrangements and had nothing to do with whether we remained married or not. Our daughter was in the middle of volleyball session and I didn’t want to make any quick decisions. We haven’t sat down and talked about what it will take for me to remain in this marriage.
I originally felt I had to have an appointment with the IC before Thanksgiving because I didn’t know how I could make it thru the holiday. I anticipated more hurt. Due to weather, I had to reschedule. The receptionist asked if I was sure I didn’t want to be worked in before the holiday and I said no. I said no because I came to the conclusion, if you are disrespected and slighted during the holiday, so what, it will just make it easier to leave. I decided to just see what happened. My H put me and our daughter first during Thanksgiving and Christmas. My ILs attempted to interfere and he didn’t allow it.
So my H has done some things that show his willingness to consider my feelings. I guess I post more about things that upset me and the negative than the positive.
"I guess I post more about things that upset me and the negative than the positive."
It does sound like he is putting in a good effort.
I probably also post more when my ex does things I don't like but honestly although he was an awful husband, he is being a great ex H. I wish he had more of an interest to see his children more often but I can't change that and I'm glad their with me anyway.
Well my step-daughter knows now and I feel terrible about how it happened. I have spoken to her and she has said she actually thought it was better to hear about it the way she did because that would give her more time to deal with it on her own time without saying words she could never take back.
She was infruiated about the lack of taking responsibility and immaturity shown by her father. I agreed I will not tell her father she knows until after I talk to her again after the New Year. She has company coming to her home for the holiday and I understand she doesn't want to deal with it right now.
She initially said no let him suffer more and then corrected herself and said no that was not a right way to be. I am proud of my step-daughter to recognize the difference between right and wrong behavior thru all the hurt and that she is able to exhibit self-control. She feels for her younger sister and said at least she is removed from the situation because she doesn't have to face her dad every day.
A good friend had asked about the holiday and I mentioned the flower incidient. She didn't know what I was talking about and had to get off the phone because her boss was waiting to talk to her. I had told her I would send her an e-mail about it. I didn't want to use our company e-mail because the content are archives forever. I looked into my personal e-mail account that I use infrequently. In reply to the message I went ahead and just cut and pasted the first message in the thread instead of retyping the whole thing. I typed in the first 2 characters of my friend's e-mail and her complete address came up. I was careless and did not notice a comma and ke at the end. I did not notice it until today when I went to send my friend another e-mail. Once I expanded the line I saw that it included another friend and my step-daughter's e-mail. Panic stricken I called my friend and asked if she still had the message from the other day. She did and she confirmed it went to all three parties. There is no excuse for my careless, me of all people making a mistake like that. I am a computer specialist and I often tell users to be very careful when sending e-mails.
I just want to find a rock to crawl under. My step-daughter knows I would never do anything like that intentionally. She also said she thought of why had I not kicked her dad out. I had told her I don't know. I ask myself the same thing often. I think I may still be in a fog of the whole thing.
My H was married before and a child was adopted during this marriage. I consider him my step-son, and will 'claim' him any day.
OC is my H's child. I do not consider him as a step-child and legally we are nothing to each other. His mother and my H were not married at the time. His mother is married now, lives about 2 hours away - and I have no interaction with any of them. When time comes for graduation, wedding and the like, it is my wish to either be invited as my H's wife or not be invited at all. My H visits as often as he can and is there when needed.
My H freely talk to me about OC. However, I do not wish to be reminded on regular basis of "that" time, and any interaction from me would not be genuine. I do not wish ill fate to OC, I just do not want to have to interact with him and the rest of his family. Given time and change of circumstances I may revisit my bounderies. But for the moment.... it works for me.
<<OC is my H's child. I do not consider him as a step-child and legally we are nothing to each other. His mother and my H were not married at the time. His mother is married now, lives about 2 hours away - and I have no interaction with any of them. When time comes for graduation, wedding and the like, it is my wish to either be invited as my H's wife or not be invited at all. My H visits as often as he can and is there when needed.>>
My H married his first wife 3 months after my step-daughter was born. My H was 19 and my step-daughter's mother was 18. I guess that is why I told myself he would not cheat on me. He made a mistake as a teenager and tried to do the right thing and it didn't work out. My step-daughter has been in my life since she was 18 months old. I have always treated the same way as I would my own. My first and only daughter was born 5 years after my H and I married and when my step-daughter was 7 years old. I think the definition of a step-mother is someone married to your father after you were born. I was married to my H before, when and after both of the OC were born. I have worked in bus ministries and in children's ministries for years and have been able to show love to stranger's children. What is hurtful to me is that I always wanted more children. Our daughter was the only child (to my knowledge, since he claims he never intended to have a child with the OW and since she refuses paternity test who even knows if they really are his)
My H and I discussed having children and I stopped taking birth control. My H said he only wanted to have one more child and even though I wanted more I agreed. I thought of my step-daughter and I have always thought I have two children. When my step-daughter was young, her mother was not very involved with her, and lived with a man who is an alcoholic and has been physically abusive to her mother. Little did I know at the time my H had another child I did not know about. I decided to have my tubes tied if I had a C-section. I ended up having a C-section and had my tubes tied. Then my H goes and has another child with the OW 5 years later. I wish the OW and OC lived 2 hours away, they only live about 10 miles away and the OW's relatives live on the same street that I do. I think why it is more difficult for me to deal with all of this is because my H never told me about the OC and for years he has been going to see them and her. He has lied and said he was at his parents. I guess it is something I am not able to bear right now. I cannot tolerate him being anywhere near the OW. I think I should be a better person about it but I can't. In 2 years, the older OC will graduation and I don't know how I will be able to tolerate him attending without me with the OW there. She stole things that did not belong to her. She had no right to have even a private conversation with a married man. And just because she got pregnant does not give her any more rights to have any time with my H. They have had 16 years of secret times. I feel if they want more time now then they need to be involved with our family. My daughter and I have lost enough family time when my H should have been with us but wasn't.
<<My H freely talk to me about OC. However, I do not wish to be reminded on regular basis of "that" time, and any interaction from me would not be genuine. I do not wish ill fate to OC, I just do not want to have to interact with him and the rest of his family. Given time and change of circumstances I may revisit my bounderies. But for the moment.... it works for me.>>
I think I can be genuine. My H is talking more freely about the OC but is not completely open with me. Tonight we went to the movies with our daughter and I noticed he had a new shirt on. I asked about it. Our daughter said he probably got it for Christmas. My H said he got it for father's day. I asked last year and he said no this year. A wave of hurt came over me, not because of the gift, no because of the OC, but because of all the lost time. I chose to no longer expose our daughter to my ILs because of the way they act years ago. My H would go to their home every SUnday, he would tell me he needed to pull parts (my FIL has a salvage yard and they have a storage yard at their home) and he would spend the day. I thought I was being a good wife by not demanding that he spend Sundays with us but I allowed it because they are his parents and although he sees his father daily during the week, he would go to see his mother on SUnday. Little did I know that he went to the OW's home on SUndays and holidays also. Now I feel so hurt and Sundays are hard for me. WHen he said father's day this year, I thought that was 2 months before my d-day and he went to see them on father's day on Sunday and I was a stupid, naive, wife and didn't demand more time on the weekend with him. I still feel like I am on the outside looking in and it hurts. I know he is trying. I think I would be better able to deal with it if he did not exclude any part of his life from me.
Every time I am told, the OC will be there and I am not welcome, it is like he is committing A all over again. Choosing the OW, and not treating me as his wife and it hurts.
I have mixed feelings about today. I feel like giving up. My H is trying. But I don't know if I can do this for the rest of my life. Thanksgiving and Christmas went well and our family spent the holidays together. I had moments of sadness but overall it was a nice holiday.
Then my ILs make sure the OC are at their house on New Years Eve to stay the night and call my H to tell him they are there and they expect him to come for New Years Day. We already had plans to spend the holiday together as a family.
I knew what the conversation was just by hearing the one side of it. Then my H ask what parts needed to be pulled off. And then says, I am going to come and pull the parts off and then leave I can't say, I have plans for tommorrow. THen I could tell my FIL was asking him about his plans.
I waited patiently for my H to tell what my FIL said but he didn't. This morning I said I was going to go ahead and ride up with him and go up on the hill with him while he pulled parts. He said something like that wouldn't be a good idea and I'll tell you why. I said I know why, they are there and your parents expect you to spend the holiday with them.
My H got mad and said so are you telling me I can't go. I told him I am not telling you what to do, the choice is yours. I had said several months ago that I didn't want to ever spend a holiday apart.
I knew it was only a matter of time. My H didn't say anymore. He didn't go and then at 5 said he was going to the garage (his work). Like he was punishing me for saying I didn't want us to spend holidays apart. Like if he can't go to his parents then he wouldn't be with us either. So much for the cake and icing statement he says he told the OW the other day.
I think I need to just tell him to move out. I just feel like today I can't do it anymore. It is too hard and it hurts too much.
I can feel your pain thru your words... gut wrenching, powerful, bone shattering pain.
My feel is there are too many people envolved in this bad B movie....and your in-laws, willingly or not, are demeaning your position in the family. By the same token I would be interested to know HOW and WHY they got there.... I would like to say they are showing you such a lack of 'respect' but it would not be strong enuff a word... For whatever reasons, they are supporting your H - their son, the OW and their out-of-wedlock children... and are leaving you out in the cold to fend for yourself. It is in my view a no win situation which keeps you permanently in a down position.
"when the pain of staying outweighs the pain of leaving... it is time to go". Find your strength, Ann, find your path. You have a daughter to think about - what would you tell her if she were in your situation? Maybe it's time to 'let go', find your footing again and start a new life knowing you tried and did everything you could humanly do.
<<your in-laws, willingly or not, are demeaning your position in the family. By the same token I would be interested to know HOW and WHY they got there.... I would like to say they are showing you such a lack of 'respect' but it would not be strong enuff a word... For whatever reasons, they are supporting your H - their son, the OW and their out-of-wedlock children... and are leaving you out in the cold to fend for yourself. It is in my view a no win situation which keeps you permanently in a down position.>>
I married young, too young. I meet my H when I was 16 and we married when I was 17. While I was mature for my age and was already attending college,I look back now and think what was I thinking. I guess I was thinking like the average 17 year old. My parents divorced when I was 12. My father had little to no involvment with me or my siblings. My H was only my 2nd boyfriend. From the beginning, my MIL has been disrespectful to me. For the first 2 years we were married we lived 1 hour from my ILs. My H worked with my FIL and on Sundays we would stop at the ILs together before taking my step-daughter back home. It was not too bad then because we rarely were around her. When she did make a rude or disrespectful comment, I would immediately confront her and she would deny it or say she was just joking. Then in our 3rd year of marriage, my step-daughter's step-father had physically abused her. We ended up taking the ex-wife to court for custody and we mistakenly moved beside my in-laws. That is when my MIL began daily interfering in our marriage. Where before it was a comment here and there whenever my H was not around that she would deny later, it became she would twist things I said and tell lies to my H. We lived beside them, and I worked full time and was going to school full time. Since the college and work was 45 minutes away, I left at 5am in the morning and didn't get home until 11pm 4 nights a week. My H would eat dinner at their house on these nights. When I would get home, I would hear about something she alleged I said or did. She would take my honest answer to a question she or my SIL would ask and led my H to believe I had started an argument with them. I would tell him the truth but I could see he would doubt me. Within a year of moving beside them, the first A and first OC happened. The month the first OC was born, we were audited by the IRS. It appeared my ILs had illegally listed my H as self employed when he actually was an employee. I could write volumes about dealings with the IRS, but the outcome was we were not responsbile for any of the tax or fees we were orginially assessed during the audit, his parents were responsible. The IRS was a blessing in disguise because we moved back to the town 1 hour away from the ILs and my H stopped working for his father and started working for another company. For 5 years, when we were away from them things were good. We bought a house and planned for and had our daughter. I had gotten my degree so I had more time also. My H continued to stop at their home on the the way taking my step-daughter home each week from visitation. (ex-wife lives about 5 minutes from in-laws). Little did I know he was visiting OC after taking my step-daughter home. Then he was laid off from his job and within a year he was back working with my FIL. This is when things changed. Within a year they got worse (now I realize this time coincides with the time the second OC was born). After working for his dad, under the table for about a year, he changed, he began not being home as often as before and kept claiming he didn't have any money. There was no conflict at home because as a codependent I didn't express my needs and concerns. I became more independent and did things with our daughter. There was still sex, but we began living 2 different lives. When my step-daughter started driving, I started to question the every Sunday visits to his parents. Excuse after excuse, but I didn't leave. I asked myself when I look at the situation now why did I stay for this. I think I told myself that my H was immature and he would grow up one day. I pulled away and he went toward his parents. When our home was damaged by flooding in 2003, things went from bad to worse. I would say we were on the brink of divorce on my d-day. Two weeks before my d-day, I had picked up divorce papers. I don't understand why it has been difficult for me to leave after confirming the 2nd A and the 2 OC. I was within days of filing the papers before I discovered the truth or at least a big part of the truth.
When I am with my H and his parents pressure him, he is able to stand up to them and I can see he is relieved when he is able to stand up to them. But if I am not around, it is like he is unable to stand up for himself.
My H has started to talk about future plans with me. My FIL is supposed to retire in May. He is again talking about vacation plans and spending the majority of his time with our daughter and me. All things he should have been doing anyway but wouldn't. I question whether he is sincere or he is just saying what he thinks I want to here.
I am getting off track. Anyway, my ILs have always been a problem and I can see I made a mistake of not getting the problem resolved in the beginning. I should have made my H make a choice long ago but for whatever reason I didn't.
My IL's problem is not me. It is with them. My H's ex-wife has told me how they would constantly cause trouble in their relationship. It is just not limited to my H either, they refuse to let any of their children grow up and have lived of their own.
The oldest son, S, has been married 3 times, first divorce was because the wife cheated, second divorce (after 15 years of marriage) was because of his A, MILs treated his second wife the same and actually worse than she has treated me because the second wife would never confront her and stand up to her, 3rd wife on my advice and the advice of his 2nd wife has very limited contact with the ILs even though they live beside each other.
Second oldest son, alcoholic, 4 children by 2 different women, never married, only holds a stable job for at most 12 months during periods of rehab and then goes back to living on the street(both girlfriends have told me MIL acted the same way with them)
Then there is my H, out-of-wedlock child during senior year in high school, when child was 3 months old, he married the mother, they divorced 14 months later, then there was me.
Youngest child, a daughter, out-of-wedlock birth, married father, divorced father, on an off lives with estranged ex-husband. I have witnessed MIL treat her own daughter badly. Daughter will try to help and clean off table after a meal and MIL will go behind her and make a comment about how filthy the table is and if you want something done right you have to do it yourself (deliberately said where daughter can hear her). The table was as clean as it possibly could be. Both MIL and FIL make disrespectful statements about daughter's ex-husband and father or their grandchild right in front of the daughter.
None of this excuses my H's lack of a backbone but I can see where he has difficulty in confronting them.
<<"when the pain of staying outweighs the pain of leaving... it is time to go". Find your strength, Ann, find your path. You have a daughter to think about - what would you tell her if she were in your situation? Maybe it's time to 'let go', find your footing again and start a new life knowing you tried and did everything you could humanly do.
Wishing you peace and the strength to find it.>>
I think it is getting to that point. I don't know. I just wish my H would have told the truth a long time ago. I am sure ILs convinced him he should never tell me. But it was his choice not theirs, he made the choice to lie continously. While his behavior has changed, I am starting to find myself questioning his motivation for everything.
I have been married twice and twice was blessed with beautiful, wonderful in-laws. When my first marriage collapsed my mother-in-law was my rock and salvation, altho I was no longer married to her son she still considered me her daughter and so did my H's father.
My second mother-in-law lived about 1 hour away from us and always had a hug for me along with gentle and caring words.
In-laws are deseased now. I still miss my 'first' family deeply. They had opened their arms and heart to me from the second they saw us get out of the plane many moons ago.
This past Xmas was the first Xmas without our matriach... my H grieved deeply in his own way.
Yes, I have been very fortunate to have been wholly 'adopted' by not one but two different families.
It does sound like you were truly blessed with an extended family with your in-laws. I wish I would have been able to see how destructive my ILs behavior was sooner and I wish I would have set boundaries much sooner. On the surface my ILs seemed like a nice close family, something I missed having since my parents divorced when I was 12. My ILs are actually capable of being nice and put up a good front to others. I realize my H does not control their behavior, but he IS responsible for his own behavior. I have told my H I married HIM not THEM. One MC pointed out that it seemed that I blamed my H for the action of others. I realized this was not true. I blamed my H for the way he acts around others. He has in the past behaved differently (in a negative way) toward me in the presence of my ILs and one of his friends. I feel like I have allowed my ILs to take too much of my time already and I just want to focus on my marriage now. My H has changed but I do not think he is being completely open with me and I don't know how much more I can take. I don't want to be the strong one anymore. I want to rest. I want him to take care of me for a change.
>>>I don't want to be the strong one anymore. I want to rest. I want him to take care of me for a change.<<<
Give yourself permission to rest, Ann. It's OK not to be 'driving' your relationship for a while. You sound exhausted, and emotionally bankrupted. Recharge your batteries. Do for Ann and Ann only. Take care of your child but distance yourself somewhat re. the other 'stuff'...detach with loving feelings... wich does not mean you would be giving up, it means you cannot be all to all the 'players' around you. Let our H know what you are planning to do and do it - for your sake and mental health. You may be surprised of the results after a while...
I too had the controlling MIL although thankfully we never lived close by. There were about 3 occasions where she literally freaked out in front of me and my H, for no apparent good reason, and once we left in the middle of the night with two young kids in tow, one child was about 3 months or so at the time. I guess I was lucky to catch these narcissistic traits early on and to confront her. She didn't like being confronted, I think it shocked her that someone would. I spoke to my sister first who was going through psychological training for nursing school at the time and she helped me talk to her without getting her defensive. Although my ex H would never confront her (no one in their family would/will), I did and honestly I think she gained some respect for me over time. Heck, I was the only person who WOULD stand up to her. In some ways I believe it humbled her or maybe even made her feel silly because I handled it constructively. Now that ex and I are apart, the in laws and I don't talk all that often anymore but they still send very nice gifts for Christmas and my birthday. I guess I'm lucky in that respect.
"My ILs are actually capable of being nice and put up a good front to others."
I know what you mean here. My MIL did the same thing and then would turn around and do something horrible to me.
"I realize my H does not control their behavior, but he IS responsible for his own behavior."
Your right, your H could stand up for you and he could also stop hiding stuff with them from you. Your supposed to be the one person that knows everything about him. I know that if my H had not at least left and showed her how wrong she was that we never would have been married for so many years after those episodes. The abuse stopped for us because they probably thought they would lose their son. I'm sure her very rational husband (my FIL) talked some sense into her as well. He is a good man.
"My H has changed but I do not think he is being completely open with me and I don't know how much more I can take."
Your right, if he is hiding the fact that he's seeing the kids at your parents house and he doesn't stand up for you toward his parents and also the OW to tell her that he wants to see his children at his home or where you will be comfortable with it without the lies, then he is not being honest with you or doing the right thing. I just can't imagine being in that situation. I think the only way I could work this out if I were in this type of situation is to prove my H's paternity in court and for him to get visitation so OW does not have the reins anymore. I'm not saying you should do that, just that I could never be sane in a situation like this. Must be very difficult.
<<I think the only way I could work this out if I were in this type of situation is to prove my H's paternity in court and for him to get visitation so OW does not have the reins anymore. I'm not saying you should do that, just that I could never be sane in a situation like this. Must be very difficult.>>
I think that is the right way to handle this. However, I recognize my H is too weak to do this. His ex-wife really used my step-daughter and made it difficult to see her even when it was court ordered. Part of my H's problem is avoids conflict at all costs and he doesn't address problems. I have checked our state's inheritance laws and child support laws. Because my H was made aware of the OW's belief the child was his, she could request reimbursement for the past 16 years. I think my H is afraid of that. I am not. Because if they are his, then he should have been supporting them all along. Neither of them are acknowleged in his will. I know he can change that at any time without my knowledge but I think I know my H well enough he won't change it unless we divorce. Not that he won't want to but he won't take the initiative to do it, he stays in the today mode and does think too far into the future. I expect if my H would die before me, the older OC or mother may attempt to make a claim against the estate. My H would be gone and they would not have to worry about disappointing him. I asked him the other day how many times the younger OC had told him that he didn't want have anything to do with me. He said I told you none, he doesn't know. I said why do you think the older OC said that they both had told him repeatily that they didn't not want to have anything to do with me. When he first read the letter and the first time we discussed it, he agreed that the OW must have said something to the younger OC because the older OC would never lie. Then last night, I said then why do you think the older OC wrote that, if he has never told you then she is lying. My H made excuses and said no, she is probably just trying to speak for him because she thinks that is how he may feel. Anyway, his rose colored glasses are starting to break and instead of taking them completely off he is making excuses for them again and lying to himself. I am about to the point to leave anyway. Actually I ask him to leave on Sunday. I feel like I am getting close to having closure on the whole thing. The time I have decided to demand for paternity is 1) if/when the divorce is filed unless my H agrees to all of our marital real estate assets being transferred to our daughters (we have 3 residential rental homes that I have invested in for my retirement, but that is OK I also have other retirement funds and my H agrees that he has no intention of leaving anything we acquired together to the OC, I am the primary bread winner) and my H agrees on his share being a cash amount, I will use getting a court-ordered paternity test as leverage. or 2) if my H dies and any attempt to take assets rightfully belonging to our children is made, they will not get a dime if they are not his. If it proves they are his, they will get a share proportional to his financial input.
Plus, I need to transfer some real estate that is in my name only to our daughters. I don't care if a lawyer says I was hiding assets. I will tell my H if he wants to take it from our children, go ahead tell them you want to take it from them. If I divorce I will start my life over and acquire new investments with my income.
I guess I am strange in that, even if these children are not my H's, thanks to his stupidity, he is the only father they have ever known, and I don't have a problem with them becoming part of our family and he being a father to them if I am show respect and it is done in a right way.
I guess this is partly because I always wanted more children. I love children. Even if these OC are not his, I can be a positive influence on their lives if permitted. I don't want to be very involved with them but I can't tolerate the attitude of we do not acknowledge you as his wife and your H is going to continue to have 2 seperate lives. Actually I could tolerate it from the OC and OW, I can't tolerate it from my H. He says this is not the way it is, but action speak louder than words. My H and ILs are all using the excuse they are afraid she won't let him see the OC if I am around. So what? If that would happen it would not be my H harming the OC it would be the OW. Anyway, I think it is just an excuse for the adults to not grow up and act responsible and try to make it about the OC. When it is not about the OC, it is about respect and honesty.
I have taken care of my nephews and have stepped into the role of parent before and I may have to take permanent custody of them to provide them a stable and safe environment in the near future. I loves these kids and will do what I can for them but even if I end up with them until they are eighteen, I do not believe they are entitled to inherit a major portion of my estate unless my children (my daughter and step-daughter) or their heirs are no longer living.
In the same way, if done in an open and honest way, if my H wants to be a parent to these 2 OC and it turns out by a paternity test later, I don't care. When I say, I don't care I mean fine with me as long as it does not take away from our daughters. Hence, my requirment visit are to be scheduled when our daughter is already busy. If not, these OC are taking time that does not rightfully belong to them unless it is proven (because of the circumstances, nothing against the OC) they are truly my H's.
Anyway, I ramble on. Sorry about that. I don't feel as pressed to insist on a paternity test right now because I think it may be more of an advantage for me to wait. Because if we divorce and assets are split fairly and nothing is taken from my children, it is my H's problem if they are not his and he will have to deal with it, not me.
Sounds like you are geting your ducks line up...stay cognisant of your state laws since you know 'knowledge is power'! Whether you act or not re. a separation and divorce you will know your options and in my book that's very positive and empowering.
I thought I posted the letter the OC sent me after she refused to accept a birthday present from me but I couldn't find it if I did. Anyway, I wrote a response letter and had put it up. I had not decided whether to throw it away later or to give it to her some day. I decided to just put it up and wait and see. I delivered it on Sunday. I called the OW and told her it was a courtesy call to letter her know I had placed a courtsey reply to the OC letter in their paper box that day. I was showing her the courtesy of letting her know. If she wanted to get it and not let the OC have it that was up to her. Of course, she tried to start and argument and say "I have told you, don't call here, stay out of my live, I have never interferred in yours.. blah..blah.. blah" My response was "the hell you haven't, but anyway that doesn't matter, I am not going to argue with you, I am giving you the courtesy to tell you the letter is there. I have done that, so I am not going to talk to you any longer"
The older OC had emailed our daughter after they met. The last e-mail she sent was asking our daughter's favorite color, music, etc. Our daughter replied with her answers. The OC never sent another e-mail. I thought no more of it until my H (after listening to my MIL) started to tell me how rude our daughter was and how she had hurt the OC's feelings, etc.. I said excuse me but my daughter has done more than anyone could ask her to, she chose to meet her, she chose to communicate via e-mail, she is 14, she has acted more adult about the whole thing than anyone. I pointed out that it was my understanding that the older OC never sent another e-mail to our daughter after our daughter's last reply. My H then said the OC said she wasn't going to e-mail our daughter anymore because the OC thought our daughter was rude and had only sent a "courtesy reply" because she should have asked her what her favorites were but she didn't. I said Oh come on, she should have been glad our daughter replied period. Anyway that is the reason there is a reference to a courtesy reply. Basically the letter to me said my action was not appreciated and it better not happen again. Both the OC had told my H repeatily they didn't want to have anything to do with me in any way, shape or form. They didn't want me in their life and they didn't want to be in mine.
Whether it was right or wrong, I delivered my response letter on Sunday. For what is worth here it is. I hope I was not too harsh, I wanted to be direct and honest. The OC is 16 and has known about me since she was in the 5th grade.
Jan 5, 2006
Dear N--
I received your letter and you may consider this letter a courtesy response to acknowledge your letter. I can feel the pain and anger you are experiencing through your words. I often think of how much better your life would have been if one of your parents would have been completely honest. I do not presume to know what they have told you regarding the circumstances or me. I have been told about you only by a third party. I refuse to hold against you the actions of others and I have encouraged Nicole(my daughter) to do the same. I only know that you are not responsible for any of my pain and that I am not responsible for any of your pain in any way, shape or form. I met my H when I was 16. We married a year later on the anniversary of our first date, August 23, 1986. I loved and accepted his daughter, T--, as my own. I had nothing to do with his decision to break our wedding vow. That decision was his and your mother's alone. I do not know why he did not tell me about you when he asked for forgiveness in September 1990. I had no part in the decision to conceal your existence. Regarding your birthday present, it was sent in kindness. It was not an easy thing for me to do, but I forced myself to buy your gift because I will not harbor bitterness in my heart. I would never blame T-- for the actions of others, nor will I blame you. It would not be right for me to treat you any differently. The gift was my olive branch. I have extended peace and kindness to you and you are welcome in our home. It is your choice whether to accept it or reject it. C--(my h's name) had been a major part of my life for the last 20 years. He has been my H for the last 19 years. You have been in my life since the day you were born and you will continue to be in my life even if we never have any contact. I have chosen to forgive my H and we have chosen to remain married. Out of love and respect for my H, I have chosen to accept you. How much you are part of our family is up to you and your mother. If you wish to exclude yourself from holidays, vacations, or other times my H and I are together, I will respect your decision. I will only ask once that you stop and consider how your decision may effect your father. He is a good person and he expressed being relieved when I finally found out the truth and though now he could have a normal life. I only wish I would have found out sooner and could have carried this heavy burden for him. Imagine one day if you were to marry and he did not respect your choice of a husband. I question whether you would treat your mother the same way if she were to marry. I know it is easier to blame someone else than confront a person you love. I have made that mistake in the past. I know, through experience, when we do that, complete healing does not occur. The pain is just buried and will surface later in other areas of our life. I respect your choice and will no longer ask for you to be included in any of our family activities, nor will I make an effort to contact you. The door of our home is still open should you chose to change your mind.
Sincerely,
Ann
I should have probably never acknowledged her letter as I had originally decided. I just realized as I typed it I had said we were going to remain married. I forgot I had wrote that. Well, we may remain married or not. I have asked my H to leave or home but I didn't ask for a divorce. Anyway, I did think about how I feel when my H doesn't acknowledge my feelings and I reasoned that I don't want to do the same so I went ahead and sent it. I expect nothing to come of it, except maybe the OW calling my H and making threats. I am a point, I really don't care. It helped give me some closure. As I told the OW, I did not make an effort to contact her personally, I sent a gift, she made the choice to contact me and I was responding in courtesy. OK, there was a little bit of bitterness in me when I spoke to the OW. I hope my words in the letter were not too harsh but if they were, so be it. I actually doubt the OW will even let the OC read it.
I went to MILs after church on Sunday because I had a feeling the OC would be there. I didn't go to start trouble but because my H did not mention anything about it and had told me before I was welcome there as long as the OC were not there. I knew nothing would come of it. But I had a peace about going. I actually think I put myself through it to help me distant myself from my H. When I arrived my H was not in the garage, as I went toward my IL's house, my 18 year old nephew came out and stopped me, he said the kids are here and you have to leave and not cause any trouble. I said are you the messenger or are you saying that to me. He said he didn't want any trouble and he personally didn't see why there would be any trouble but he was asked to come out and tell me to leave. I told him don't worry I'm not going to kill the messenger but can you clarify exactly what message you were to deliver. The message was the kids are welcome here, you are not welcome, leave. I asked where my H was and he told me up on the hill. (their farm has salvage cars stored there). I walked up on the hill. My H and FIL were removign a motor from a car. After a few minutes my H walked over to me and said the kids are here. I said I know J-- told me and I have been told to vacate the premises which we need to talk about for a minute. My FIL said there is nothing to talk about, you are not welcome here when the kids are here. I said what I need to talk about with my H does not concern you it is between my H and me. He turned around and didn't say anymore. After about 5-10 minutes once they removed the motor my H mentioned for me to come with him and we walked away about 15 yards, I told him I said we will talk in private (because he had said we will talk about it when I get home and I had said no we need to talk about it before I leave, then my FIL made his comment). He said well then we should have waited until we got home. I said this is not private sound carries and my FIL can here every word. I asked my H when he didn't tell my the OC were there, he said he didn't know until he got there. I said that is part of the problem, our daughter is at home and you agreed visit would be when she was busy. I said I am either your wife or not your wife. He said if that is the way you feel then fine and a couple of other words were exchanged. I walked off the hill and contemplated what I was going to do. Before leaving for church, I had packed 7 sets of uniforms and his toothbrush and had told myself, if he doesn't treat you with respect give him the suitcase and tell him not to come home until he decided he wants to be married and that he could make arrangements to get the rest of his things later. I was unable to communicate this to him on that day. In his defense, he had called or home twice after arriving there. He didn't however leave a message. Problem because he knew our daughter would hear it and he knows it is not right for a H to go anywhere his W is not welcome. I returned home and sent our daughter to my mother's for the night because I didn't know if or when my H would return and I am human and I did cry. When he came home, I told him maybe it is for the best that he move out. He had broken the agreement to limit visit to when our daughter was somewhere else, he had already told her no he would not come home the last Sunday to wash the car with her. I had given him that Sunday because I had already told our daughter she would have to help me clean our basement so I knew she would not ask to go. He said the OC were not their last Sunday. I said that is not my problem. We agreed to visit would be when she is not busy. You have not taken the opportunity once to visit them on a Tuesday or Wednesday evening or any other time she is busy. You have let your parents and her decide. If you want them to have the authority over you and tell you when you are permitted to be with your wife and our daughter then that is your choice and I will have not part in it. We didn't talk anymore. I thought he wasn't coming home last night because he called at 5:30pm but I didn't answer. He didn't leave a message. He came home at 6:30pm and I didn't ask him anything. I think he things it will all be dropped. But I really think now is the time. I have stepped aside for him on several occassions, and like I have told him I don't mind stepping aside but I am not going to be pushed aside. Yes, I know I forced the issue and I was shoved aside. But I am tired of playing wait and see. He has played wait and see for 17 years and look at the mess it has made. He tried to say I only had a problem when the OC were up there and I told him no. I asked you months before I found out, to spend more time with us on Sundays. He insisted no every time he saw the kids I had a problem. I said that is not true. Did I have a problem, September 24, 25, December 19, December 24, no I did not. I even suggested the 24 I gave our daughter the option to meet them on the 25th. And like I told you then when you thanked me for stepping aside because it helped you, I can step aside but I will not be pushed aside. I told him I think he would probably be happier with out me and that it may be better for our daughter as she has mentioned maybe if you kicked him out he would come see us on weekends. I said maybe it would help her see that he would make the effort to see her. Not that she saw him every day because he lived there and came home ate, took a shower, and watched TV and went to bed. In fairness to my H, all 3 of us did go out to the go-kart and video arcade on Sat. Our daughter wanted to go look at the animal shelter (she wants to volunteer once she is 16). He said no he wasn't going to go but I went ahead and took her. He is so selfish. It would not have hurt him to take 45 minutes and take her there to look at the animals. But he didn't want to because he didn't like animals. It is OK for him to spend time with us as long as it is something he likes, but don't ask him to do something he doesn't like for us. I know it will be hard not to take him back if he leaves. I want to take him back if he is sincere but I don't know how to know for sure he is sincere. I guess I can only gauge things by his actions, not his words.
Anyway, I have rambled on enough. Comments and advice welcome.
Well the last part sounds exactly like my ex. He did nothing that he didn't want to do regardless of how much the kids or I wanted to do them. If he ever did, he would bitch the entire time and I ended up thinking that I would have had more fun without him. Know what Ann? I am having more fun without him now, sadly. I'm glad to be away from his sick behavior.
I just cannot believe that you (and your daughter too really) are being pushed out of the In laws life and basically your own families lives (H) because of your H's indescretions. This is not your fault and don't believe it when he tries to put the blame on you by supposedly making him choose between you and your daughter and his other children. He is the one that caused this and in my humble opinion, you are the one that is suffering for it and being treated crappy b/c of it. He could get visitation with OW and tell her to hell with you and see his children in his own home but he doesn't, maybe it is easier to just blame you? It seems so unfair but nothing about an A is fair. The sad part is that you are being made out to be the bad guy all around with in laws and your H, it is just unbelievable. You may just find that once you are out of this you may be a lot happier. I don't know for sure but you never know. I sure am and I didn't have to deal with problem in laws and OC.
I believe my H knows I am not the bad guy and my ILs and the OW know it too. The OC may not know it because of the negative influence in their lives which from what I can see it is every adult they are around.
My H knows me and he knows that I have a tendency to do for others instead of myself. He is trying to play on this and manipulate me and I know it. I told him tonight he either visits the OC when Nicole is otherwise occupied or move out period. If we make it the 4 or 5 years until she is out of the house, there will be no restriction. I will just not tolerate the OW, OC or MIL telling me when our daughter and I can or cannot spend time with him and he needs to start planning to spend some Sundays with us period. We don't want to monopolize every Sunday, because honestly we have other things to do. We go to church and some Sundays our daughter goes with a friend after church. I have or had (I stepped down from all of them to deal with this) volunteer duties I enjoyed. Plus I work full-time and homeschool our daughter. I don't have a lot of free time. He said he would make it a point to know before he goes there on Sunday whether the OC are there or not. I told him if our daughter doesn't have plans and his parents have invited them up there, then HE doesn't go there, he doesn't leave our daughter to go see them, even on Sundays. If he can't agree and abide by that, then move out. I told him I have failed him as a wife (I recognize my faults, not taking any responsibility for A or anyone's pain because of it) and I have failed as a mother. And I refuse not to demand this in her best interest. She is hurting right now and I will be no part of inflicted more pain on her. He has the nerve to say well he can't just wait to see what our daughter is going to do and then ask them at the last minute if she is busy. And I said we need to as a family start discussing our plans for the weekend on Wed or Thurs, then you, me and our daughter will know ahead of time. I reminded him from the beginning I told him what would happen the minute he told my ILs that I knew. I said they need to arrange their own visitation seperate from you and you arrange your own visitation when you know it will not conflict with our plans.
Because I would let things go in the past, I honestly think on Sunday he thought be really, really nice for a few days and she will forget about it.
Our daughter has a Bible Study this Friday usually 6:30-9:00 and then an indoor soccer game at 9pm. He asked if I knew what she was going to do. I said she decided to go to Bible Study and leave at 8pm so she would be sure and make it to the game on time. My H said that he needed to talk to N- (the older OC) so he was thinking he might take both OC out to dinner on Friday. I said I don't have a problem with that. Then I did clarify, you do intend to be at the game at 9pm and he said yes. I said OK I didn't want their to be any miscommunication.
He said their was a problem on Monday. The OC had stayed Sunday night at his parents because no school on Monday. The OW called and asked how they were doing and my MIL said N- was upstairs helping a friend with homework. OW of course questioned friend? This is in another county. Turns out it was a friend who used to go to school in our county but had moved and since N-- has been telling her friends about where her "new" grandparents live, somehow this friend arranged with my MIL's permission to ride HIS motorcycle over to my ILs and my MIL didn't see any problem with allowing the 16 year old to be upstairs with a 17 year old boy by themselves. My H said OW,said she immediately got in the car and went and got them and supposedly told my MIL that she didn't appreciate it. Anyway, he now says 16 year old girl is no longer allowed to go to ILs home. I said you may think that but you have not control over it. I think what he meant was no more staying the night and probably no more going there when H is not there. Who knows if it is true or not? I don't care.
Interestingly enough, I said well I am suprised you haven't ask my about my letter to N--. I told him what I had did and why and he actually said when did N write you a letter. I said Hello, you read it. He said any you waiting this long to reply. I said yes I wrote it then, but did not immediately send it because I thought it probably would not do any good and had just put it up and thought I may never send it or maybe give it to her later. I told him how he does not acknowledge my feelings sometimes and thinks I should just get over it and I didn't want to do the same because it was obvious she was expressing her feelings. He said OW had not called him which suprised him. I said well I did tell her I was giving her a courtesy call to let her know I placed the courtsey reply in the mailbox and I said
if you got a problem with me, you call me, not my H.
Anyway I think when my H realizes I am serious and not backing down on this I think he will comply. It is sad really but if possible I don't want our daughter to not have both parents at home. I do love my H and I think he loves me I just think he has a lot of growing up to do. I also think he is afraid of being on his own and he doesn't want to move back with his parents.
And I think he knows the OW would not treat him as well as I have. And it would be hard to find any woman who would.
If I end up raising my nephews and it is highly likely that will happen, their ages are 11,8 and 4, I won't have time to deal with another M if I divorce at least for another 8 years anyway. Nor will I want to anyway probably for quite some time. I do not feel like I have to raise them, I WANT to raise them if their parents are not going to. I love kids, it really doesn't matter whose they are either. And then by that time I will probably have grandchildren. So if he agrees to what I can live with and he holds to it, that is fine with me.
"Plus, I need to transfer some real estate that is in my name only to our daughters"
Ann
That may be a mistake for you to do. I know all states are different but in many states if the property was only in your name and it was aquired before your marriage, it will belong to you - period. Now if it was purchased during your marriage it will likely be split in half regardless of what you do now. You know when exactly you obtained it but if there is any chance you bought before you married, keep it in YOUR name at least until you ask a lawyer in your state.
